SF4 loc-test feedback

**marukusu** · 02-23-2008 12:10 AM

Okay, so this weekend there's a locationtest of SF4 in Plaza Capcom, Kichijoji, Tokyo as you all know... I had the luck to be there yesterday and try the current build of SF4, and this is what I have to say about it...

First of all, I have to say that it plays like ST but with a mixture of 3s; the moves are just as ST (but tweaked of course), but you can roll, you throw with LP + LK, taunt is with HP + HK and then you have the new Save Attack (or what's it called) that you do with MP + MK. You only have one superbar, you have EX moves and another bar for Ultra Combo/Revenge Attack, which is basically a stronger version of the Super Attack. The Revenge-bar fills up as you get beaten and yes, you can cancel your moves in to the Ultra Combo, just as supers.
I have to say that I really loved the Save Attack and it can really turn the tables in the fight. You charge the SA by holding MP + MK, and you can charge it three levels; first one is a basic attack, second has Super Armor for one hit and stuns the opponent, which gives you the opportunity to dash in and do a combo, and the third level is unblockable AND has a followup. Although, it takes a while to charge it fully. I found the SA most usefull in okizeme and when the opponent does jumpins, though to the Super Armor and the stun. Against Ryu and his shoryuken, it was a gift from God.

My general impression of the characters so far is that Ryu and Ken are top at the moment, and Crimson Viper. I only played with Ryu and Ken though, and so did the most of the other players. From what I experienced, all the combos with Ken in 3s works in SF4. Strong Fierce F. Shoryu works great, and if you do jump in MK crossup and follow it up with MP HP EX Shoryu, you got about 50% damage just like that. Tickthrows are much more easy to do also, it seemed you could to cr.short and instantly do a throw. Speaking of throws... Commandthrows are now worthless it seems. They don't do any damage, and because of the wierd inputlag that the game suffered from (I was litterarelly hammering on MP + MK sometimes to activate Save Attack, and other inputs like shoryu and EX hadoukens didn't respond sometimes, which was very annoying) you mostly miss the throws. Also, commandthrows seemed to whiff quite often... Zangief's SPD did at most 20% damage if you managed to get it in. Compare that to the bnb combo with Ken...
The game also plays kind of slow I have to say, or rather, it plays very chunky. The animations of the characters is great, but it just plays... chunky. Sure, it "feels" that you hit your opponent really hard, but... Yes, chunky. I can't describe it better than that.
Other issues that I noticed is that specials were really easy to stuff, especially those from air, and shoryukens had a really big hitbox sometimes. The reason for this is probably though to the input lag thingy. Also, some moves had really wierd recovery, especially for Honda like his butt-attack (charge down, up kick) and Thousand Slaps, which you easily could punish with whatever.

I have a really bad hangover at the moment, so please come with questions about anything and I'll try to answer them from the experience I had with SF4. I know that there's much left out in this text, but as said, my head is killing me.

All in all, Street Fighter 4 is what SF EX was supposed to be. They should rename the game to Street Fighter 2 EX: Third Strike Light. And no, I'm not heading back there, because it's not worth it. Seriously, no. If this game didn't have the Street Fighter name on it, nobody would care about it.

**marukusu** · 02-23-2008 12:16 AM

A friend of mine who where with me at the location test and his observations:

slashz:
I had a cold/fever yesterday (and still do) so my observations might not have been that accurate.

I started off with C.Viper who felt really slow. Soon thereafter I realized she was one of the quicker chars (if not the quickest at this stage) and it was the game itself that played slow. At first it was hella annoying but after a few games you don't think of it - that much.

Anyway, her movelist is the following:

qcb+P
LP - she dashes forward (about 1/3, 1/2 screen) for a hit with her stungun. Her stance is low/crouching but I'm uncertain if it hits low or mid. You can connect this after crouching MK. I think the same goes for the MP version.
MP - same but in a standing stance. I think it hits mid.
HP - she rises in a 45 degree angle, about 75% the height of a jump.

qcb+k (in mid-air too)
Looks like a single tatsumaki from SFEX (or exactly like a qbc+K with Lee in last blade 2) but with pretty flames.
I didn`t got the chance to try around this much because I lost two rounds straight but I noticed a skilled player using the midair version after his jumpin was blocked, punishing his opponents attempt to make a move after the block. I think he also

srk+p
LP - she slams her fist into the ground and a blast (the hitbox is about the width of a general char and maybe 66% of the height) appears where she stands. There is a one second delay from the input until she hits the ground and the blast appears. Followup in air is possible.
MP - same but the blast is mid-screen
HP - same but the blast is the other end of the screen

Her super is qcfqcf+P. She slams her fist into the ground and a massive blast (which seemed to cover 1/3 of the screen) pops up. It felt like it had a bunch of inv.frames. She follows the blast up with a series of flaming kicks on both standing and airborne opponents, iirc.

I never saw anyone connect her revenge move (qcfqcf+PP) but in case I didn't mistake her EX qcf+P it's the same animation, only faster. By the way, f+HP is an overhead.

I noticed a C. Viper player having quite long strings. As of now she seems to have the best pressure.

Abel was funny but I got beating 2 rounds straight by some Ryu beacuse I didn't use Abel's roll enough.

qcf+P -> f+P/K or b+P/K -> f+P
I'm not 100% on the command here but I think at least what I wrote is possible, perhaps 108 will fill us in on this later (unless he already did).
If the

qcb+P
Roll. Felt somewhat like alpha/cvs Ken's roll.

360+P
He lifts the opponent with both hands and swings them in a horizontal circle before slamming them into the ground. Ugly.

qcb+K
As 108 wrote, looks like Terry Bogard's crack shoot. Overhead.

srk+P
A little like Gief's anti-air throw, only he doesn't leap that far up.

I never saw his super (qcfqcf+p), but his revenge (qcfqcf+p) was a punch, 7 identical kicks to the gut and a big SPDish throw.

After that I got tierd of losing and changed to Ken who's a fucking tank. I think Marcus covered him pretty good. We're in a rush now so I'll maybe make a post about how the game felt in general later, but to sum it up: the graphics are nice (except for some jagged textures, Ken looked like he had scars all over. Cool although unintentional.) although I don't like the character design much. The gameplay felt mostly like ST or like a successor to ST to be more precise. Initially the game speed felt like ST on turbo 1 :P and the inputs felt laggy, but after a while it was all good.
What really lifts this game is that it's STREET fucking FIGHTER. If it were any other game I'd give it 2 out of 5 - TOPS. But since it's SF4 and you really can relate to ST (and a little, very little to 3S) it feels like 3 and 1/2 right now. I'm sure it will be better when it's done but right now it doesn't feel like a hit, more like something on the side when you're tierd of main game.

**NewGen** · 02-23-2008 12:25 AM

it'd be nice if they could fill the rest of the game up, or atleast add a great portion of the remaining undisclosed characters with new ones that have new fighting styles that bring something new to the game such as c.viper. I'd hate for this game to be a complete rehash of old ideas and not move forward with some sort of innovation (though saving attack and revenge is some step in that direction).

all in all, I hope that they fix these bugs, update some of the old characters with moves that would keep them competitive with the newer characters--cause I saw a lot of people playing c.viper, and hell she looks like she'd be fun to play-- but make it so that the returning characters won't be relegated to bottom tier, like e.honda.

**P.o.t.S.** · 02-23-2008 12:58 AM

One's hungover and the other had a fever... are you afraid of criticizing the game or something?

**margalis** · 02-23-2008 01:03 AM

I did notice that after Honda's butt drop he sort of bounces for a second in the vids. I wouldn't worry about these things too much though, that is the sort of thing that is likely to be tweaked.

What is the point of the level 1 saving strike if it has no super armor? You can do it while being comboed or while blocking?

**inkblot** · 02-23-2008 01:34 AM

This game is 0 fer 3 on location test reviews. Let's hope they take this feedback seriously and fix the gameplay.

**Virtua_Leon** · 02-23-2008 04:39 AM

at last a decent sf4 thread thanks for the heads up, by the way is e honda as fast as he looks in the videos?

And does abel really look as bad as he does in the videos? he looks so ugly i see that throw thing he does at the end of his super i dont think i've seen a move that looks as bad

**10x** · 02-23-2008 08:18 AM

I hope command throws are worth a damn when this thing comes out.

Thanks for the info, man.

**Daemos** · 02-23-2008 09:22 AM

Good thread.

I think the points being raised are valid at the moment, this game really does seem to be heading in the direction of re-hash. I was hoping for a big jump like the one we saw from SF2 to SF3 but with more returning characters. Here (SF4), even the returning characters having little new to offer. Are Capcom really scared of giving Guile a third move at last or a haircut at least?

I love the way the game looks and plays but that's because I love Street Fighter and truly appreciate it as a fighting game, but truth be told, this really seems to be "SF2 Turbo EX light Remixed & Revisited Edition".

**haunts** · 02-23-2008 12:48 PM

I didnt notice any input lags when I played at GDC. The buttons and inputs were fine, I didnt have to mash anything. Throw and saving strike cmae out instantly each time. The stick I was playing on was not the best....but I was sitting a weird angle who knows.

**SweetJohnnyV** · 02-23-2008 12:51 PM

Thanks for the reviews guys. It's really great to hear from real players that were able to try the game.

I noticed the speed in the videos they put out too. Seemed a bit slower than the early videos and a definitely slower than ST on Turbo 3(US). I hope they end up speeding it up a bit. It's interesting to hear about the input lag and weakness of command throws and such. Hopefully they'll get a lot of good feedback about things like this and fix and tighten them up before it comes out.

**YellowS4** · 02-23-2008 02:16 PM

Did anyone mention the 3 extra stages as well?

A Blanka? stage, some NA level (probably Ken?) and some Vietnam looking joint?

**Gaijinblaze** · 02-23-2008 02:48 PM

This might be what you already heard but someone at another forum posted this:

New stages: since the time I played at AOU 2008, they added 3 more stages. 1. "South America" - thats what the stage name is. looks kind of like Blanka's stage in SFA3 but 3-d. you can see some kind of creature that looks its related to Blanka in the background. 2. "North America" - takes place at night, in front of a diner where several hummers, low riders, and lots of spectators in the background. 3. "South Asia" - actually looks more like Vietnam, takes place on a boat with small pointy mountains on the ocean like you'd see in Ha Long bay.

I figure the last one is the sunset stage from the pics.

Ouch @ crossup, target x EX srk doing 50%, especially considering the weird arc/speed of the jumps

**Yurinka** · 02-23-2008 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by YellowS4

Did anyone mention the 3 extra stages as well?

A Blanka? stage, some NA level (probably Ken?) and some Vietnam looking joint?

No. Give us more info, please.

**Ultima** · 02-23-2008 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by inkblot

This game is 0 fer 3 on location test reviews. Let's hope they take this feedback seriously and fix the gameplay.

What would you have them fix?

**Lvl.3** · 02-23-2008 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by inkblot

This game is 0 fer 3 on location test reviews. Let's hope they take this feedback seriously and fix the gameplay.

I hope you added gunter's japanese friend who also gave it a 0. Speaking of which, has anyone come across a japanese forum and read their thoughts of the game? When gunter said only 6 people showed up, they must not be impressed.

marukusu- how many people were at the test location, did many stay long?

**AdverseSolutions** · 02-23-2008 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Lvl.3

I hope you added gunter's japanese friend who also gave it a 0. Speaking of which, has anyone come across a japanese forum and read their thoughts of the game?

Just checked 2ch, the biggest Japanese message board. Could hardly find any threads about it, and one thread I found was comparing it derisively to EX. lol

**Gojira** · 02-23-2008 09:34 PM

A certain fellow on IC forums mentions this as well:

also, balrog.

someone was fighting against balrog. no idea how or why. just, between two fights, someone was fighting the computer (actually, it said "NET" by the character instead of "CPU", so it might have been someone at Capcom Headquarters testing out the online play).

So yeah, Balrog (by which I mean the "American" Balrog, Japanese "M.Bison") is most definitely in the game.

I guess that's news?

Needs more confirmation to be 100% believed, but I don't think anyone would put it past Capcom given who they've used so far.

**marukusu** · 02-23-2008 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Lvl.3

I hope you added gunter's japanese friend who also gave it a 0. Speaking of which, has anyone come across a japanese forum and read their thoughts of the game? When gunter said only 6 people showed up, they must not be impressed.

marukusu- how many people were at the test location, did many stay long?

Well, there were four machines, the winner stayed for 10 wins at most and we waited approx. 20 minutes in line to get playing. At most there were about 25 people around 18:00. There seemed to be a lot of people just playing two-three times, then leaving the arcade. As said, I don't feel that it's worth to travel more than one hour to stand in a line about 20 minutes to get to play a half done game that doesn't add anything new to the SF-universe - yet.

To add about the wierd input lag, we weren't the only one having problem with it. A lot of other players accidentally jumped also, or did other wierd things when they tried to do shoryukens or hadoukens. The stick and everything else seemed to be new and felt good... Another cool feature with the game is that all of the machines are linked together, so you always have an opponent, no matter what machine they're playing at. I cannot say if it's only local or nationwide, but time will tell. And also, the game seems to matchmake those with the highest winningstreak to eachother, to make the best players have it at eachother. That is a nice touch I think.

Also, it seemed that all the characters have some sort of crossup, which if timed correctly, makes shoryukens and other attacks alike, whiff. And also, a lot of times shoryukens where outbeaten by jumpattacks, such as j. roundhouse...

And to add to the throws; all throws seems to be weak, especially commandthrows as said.

**MiLky** · 02-23-2008 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Gojira

A certain fellow on IC forums mentions this as well:

Needs more confirmation to be 100% believed, but I don't think anyone would put it past Capcom given who they've used so far.

Could you link that thread. Is there any description of how boxer looked? Probably bogus, but I'd like to read the thread.

**haunts** · 02-23-2008 11:18 PM

How many matches did you guys play all in all?

**Gojira** · 02-24-2008 05:03 AM

Originally Posted by MiLky

Could you link that thread. Is there any description of how boxer looked? Probably bogus, but I'd like to read the thread.

Thread (post in question is near the bottom of this page; the one at the top is about AOU)

All he mentions about it is what I quoted. He also mentioned the extra stages so he was probably there, at least. I don't think he has any reason to lie, but he might have been mistaken since it sounds like he only glanced over.

**MiLky** · 02-24-2008 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by Gojira

Thread (post in question is near the bottom of this page; the one at the top is about AOU)

All he mentions about it is what I quoted. He also mentioned the extra stages so he was probably there, at least. I don't think he has any reason to lie, but he might have been mistaken since it sounds like he only glanced over.

Thanks, I have no doubt they might include boxer and some of the other bosses, but from that post it's hard to call it legit. You think someone somewhere would of seen this as well. If that happened it would of eventually filtered down the grapevine to SRK. Maybe he saw a quick test of online like he said, but I find it hard to believe.

I actually hope it's true.

**The Lone Dragon** · 02-24-2008 01:23 PM

Thanks for the reports...

Originally Posted by marukusu

All in all, Street Fighter 4 is what SF EX was supposed to be. They should rename the game to Street Fighter 2 EX: Third Strike Light. And no, I'm not heading back there, because it's not worth it. Seriously, no. If this game didn't have the Street Fighter name on it, nobody would care about it.

Originally Posted by marukusu

What really lifts this game is that it's STREET fucking FIGHTER. If it were any other game I'd give it 2 out of 5 - TOPS. But since it's SF4 and you really can relate to ST (and a little, very little to 3S) it feels like 3 and 1/2 right now. I'm sure it will be better when it's done but right now it doesn't feel like a hit, more like something on the side when you're tierd of main game.

Sorry if I'm a little slow in the head...

But, what exactly is so "bad" about the game? Reading the details of your report (and your friend's), it's hard for me to find anything that really stands out as horrible...

A "2 out of 5"? A "2 out of 5" = a bad game.

But, your detailed descriptions of SF4 don't sound bad at all. Just different.

As said, I don't feel that it's worth to travel more than one hour to stand in a line about 20 minutes to get to play a half done game that doesn't add anything new to the SF-universe - yet.

Is that it? Is it because it feels too similar to previous SF games?

Because, I'd think that would be a success at this point in development, considering the 3D overhaul...

**Hellion** · 02-24-2008 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by The Lone Dragon

Is that it? Is it because it feels too similar to previous SF games?

Because, I'd think that would be a success at this point in development, considering the 3D overhaul...

good point.
repped--tomorrow.

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