Lilian “Milktea” Chen Calls for Raised Awareness of Harmful Myths About Female Players in Competitive Gaming Lilian “Milktea” Chen Calls for Raised Awareness of Harmful Myths About Female Players in Competitive Gaming
While competitive gaming continues to grow year by year, one demographic continues to be left out in the cold. Retired Super Smash Bros. player... Lilian “Milktea” Chen Calls for Raised Awareness of Harmful Myths About Female Players in Competitive Gaming

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While competitive gaming continues to grow year by year, one demographic continues to be left out in the cold. Retired Super Smash Bros. player Lilian “Milktea” Chen recently wrote a great piece in an attempt to raise awareness of what female players face in these communities from her experiences playing Super Smash Bros. Melee.

“The next step to maintaining our thriving community is, without debate, to continue expanding and diversifying,” she said in her post regarding the competitive Smash scene’s recent resurgence. “This leads us to one of our biggest and undeniable downfalls. If you have attended a tournament, you understand what I am referring to. Where are all the women? Why are there so few?”

The bulk of Chen’s blog is spent debunking a variety of harmful myths that surround female players, some of which may be perpetuated unknowingly and without malicious intent. She tackles topics like attention, girls being called out on their gaming credentials, and the fact they are often expected to just deal with the negativity hurled their way.

“I truly believe in the Super Smash Brothers Melee community’s ability to make large strides regarding female gaming issues,” she concludes. “Armed with awareness and a touch of empathy, I am confident that we will begin to witness uninformed behaviors turn into knowledgeable ones.”

As I’m sure many of you are aware, issues like these can be found in a variety of spaces, especially competitive gaming communities. If we truly want to see our scenes survive and even thrive, it’s imperative that we hear out people like Chen and do everything in our power to make these spaces comfortable and inviting for everyone.

The full blog post can be found on Tumblr, so please give it a read and pass it on to others.

Source: Lilian “Milktea” Chen, tip via Clyde

  • Mash Harder

    Feminism? Tumblr links? WHAT’S NEXT?

    • http://www.youtube.com/user/tsdcs TS

      This week on Jezebel.com: Why are Video Game “Bosses” Always Male? Patriarchy and the Digital Glass Ceiling

      • Mash Harder

        That’s deep.

      • SgtKardashian

        Good to see MRA Strawman arguments at work.

        • Mash Harder

          OH god they’re here. BOOK IT.

          • Josh

            Wait, are you really leaving? Sweet.

          • Mash Harder

            Interesting, as I don’t disagree with the majority of your rhetoric.
            It’s good though that one hardliner can completely stifle discussion on an obviously sensitive and irreconcilable subject.

        • http://www.youtube.com/user/tsdcs TS

          It was a joke, dummy.

        • Eshto

          I studied gender issues in college. I used to think they were all strawman arguments. But then I actually read some Jezebel articles. They parody feminism on their own without any help from anyone else. I particularly liked the article about how cell phones are sexist because they’re made for man hands. I imagine a bunch of Jezebel writers fumbling and dropping their phones. Thanks Obama! Well I’m just glad that in my Women’s Studies courses we actually read books by qualified writers. Not blogs and twitter.

          Additionally, nobody even knew what the hell an “MRA” was until people started calling each other that on the Internet. Way to promote the MRM. They could never have gotten so much exposure on their own.

        • TruthD

          Strawman as in defining feminism arguments…it’s not a strawman when feminist complain that Dracula sucking blood is now rape.

      • http://www.soundcloud.com/ZeroLovesDnB 00000000

        With a follow up article showing why it’s wrong to have female video game bosses (with BATLETOADS as a thumbnail).

        • Eshto

          You got it. Whatever gets people to click the links, consistency be damned. They probably genuinely care about other women as much as the anti-gay movement cares about “the children”.

          • Eshto

            Milktea’s post on the other hand, is very good, sane, informative, passionate but doesn’t crank up the drama or divisiveness. People should read more of that. Less tabloid stuff. Get to it!

      • Steven

        Skull Girl

    • grezex29

      Maybe if we’re lucky civilized conversation with actual valid points?

      • Mash Harder

        Do you want to have a conversation?

    • SgtKardashian

      Oh no! Links to a website known for promoting positive social change in society and for society to be more inclusive, I used to think SRK was a place where I could spread my ignorant racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic beliefs, now even it’s not safe from the influence of Tumblr.

      • Mash Harder

        Oh no!
        “Because I said so” has become a perfectly legitimate argument!

        • SgtKardashian

          Oh no! Another Strawman argument that completely misunderstands everything!

          • Mash Harder

            Oh I’m sorry, i wasn’t sure what evidence you used to derive your assumptions. Please put him back up I will knock him down again.

          • Josh

            I’m pretty sure the burden of proof is actually on you for wanting to completely disregard a website for some reason and also a social movement aimed at equality.

            Those things seem intuitively OK.

          • Mash Harder

            I am all for equality.

          • Josh

            Then being anti feminism seems counter productive. How about you consider your privilege for just one second and realize that you don’t need defending right now.

          • Mash Harder

            I absolutely support feminism.
            What I don’t support is SgtKonus and his anti-male shenanigans.

          • Josh

            Ahahaha

          • SgtKardashian

            How am I anti-male?

          • Josh

            Yeah, I don’t know what he said that was anti male. I am absolutely anti male, but I have been trying to hold that back in this comments section

          • VicViper

            good

            nobody would’ve welcomed your sexist, sycophantic bullshit anyways

          • Mash Harder

            You were detected using keyword algorithms.

          • JasinWalraven

            I think you are misunderstanding what a straw man argument is

      • OrehRatiug

        Some of the most hateful things I have seen arose from Tumblr, and these are things that were promoted as ‘good’. Maybe it isn’t the site as a whole, but positive social change isn’t the only thing being promoted on Tumblr.

        • SgtKardashian

          You know what, you’re right. I was associating the parts of Tumblr I visit with all of Tumblr, however, I was merely playing into the stereotype of Tumblr being a place for social justice. However, garbage like the MRA, Neo-nazis and the like all infect Tumblr with their hate.

          • Mash Harder

            I like how you associate MRA with Neo-nazis.
            It’s nice to get a look at the big picture.

          • SgtKardashian

            Their views on Feminism mirror each other, though it’s still an unfair comparison true.

          • Mash Harder

            Nay, good sir.
            T’would be only the hardliners, I should imagine.

            edit: ooh! Isn’t that an interesting juxtaposition.

          • Josh

            I’m pretty sure this is the first time I’ve ever seen someone actively defend MRAs. The whole premise of MRAs is terrible. Men don’t need defending, trust me. The patriarchy will still be there in the morning, I promise.

          • Mash Harder

            Right.
            Tell that to the justice system.

          • Josh

            Yo, misandry.

          • Mash Harder

            Not exactly. But it’s great social media bait.

          • Josh

            Dude, misandry isn’t real. There is no systemic oppression of men. I’m sorry if you think there is, but there really isn’t.

          • Mash Harder

            No there isn’t I agree.

          • Josh

            Then what rights are you trying to defend? Dudes are going to be okay, we don’t need MRAs.

          • Mash Harder

            I’m not fucking MRA.
            But they are not nazis ya heard.

          • Josh

            There were nazis who didn’t actively kill people, just supported the system that allowed it. Similarly, MRAs don’t necessarily actively kill people, but they do support the patriarchy, which allows spouse abuse, among other forms of violence.

          • Mash Harder

            Oh god.

          • Josh

            Dude, not every nazi was an SS soldier. A lot of them were politicians. A lot of them were also bakers and cobblers and whatever. You didn’t need to pull a trigger to encourage a system that did.

          • JasinWalraven

            Dudes as a whole are going to be ok, but individuals need to be protected, and despite what you believe, when a white male falls victim to false accusations, the white man Calvary does not rush in to save him, and individuals may at some point need a Men’s rights group to save them.

          • DanCiTi

            Except MRAs are virtually never helpful towards men at all. Instead they just try to complain about, shut down or hurt women even when they are trying to be inclusive and working towards something positive. They go on immaturely like an infant who got their toys taken away from them.

            You know, they COULD work towards aiding gay and trans men who face discrimination and violence, as well as being more inclusive and understanding to the lives of men of various color, disabled men, so on.
            They could actually be helping men who face unjust alimony payments, even falsely accused rape cases(which are EXTREMELY fringe, rare cases, but still) Or helping male rape victims who are ignored because “they should have enjoyed it because she was hot what’s wrong with you dude!” “you were gettin’ laid man!” “take it like a man”, etc. when you know, unless she was Scarlett Johansson or some girl of his dreams(even then meh) I doubt he was anything but physically scarred and emotionally damaged.
            Heck they could even start awareness for demolishing the standard ideal for men that they need to be strong, tall, chiseled greek sex gods to feel secure about themselves and be successful and accomplished in various areas in life.

            But nah….instead they are mainly a bunch of sad sacks railing against any and all females on Earth because their wife/gf left them after they realized they were a loser. So now they slog through life claiming all women are evil, worthless life & money-sucking sluts (but ones that they always owe THEM sex, but if women have sexual freedom and do what they want, unlike men, are labeled as a slut.)

            It’s all why people openly make fun of MRAs, they are a group of childish, pathetic losers who have no real goals other than to be frustrated and vengeful towards women because they think the world is converging against them when in reality it is not, they are just big babies who think everything, especially whatever a woman can offer should be always served on a silver platter.

            P.S. Women who blindly hate men indefinitely are NOT at all representative of feminism and are just negative scapegoats people like to point towards to discredit feminists who are trying to do real, positive things to help people on a day-to-day basis and break down societal norms that oppress women of all varieties. Any race/color, straight, gay, bi, trans, any religion, any nation, any and all physical disabilities and so on. This in turn helps men too, who while they may benefit from the privileges that this society provides at times, feminism also works against norms that pigeonholes men to certain standards as well.
            Yeah and these radical pseudo-feminists might hurt your feelings…but chances are your life is still good and you can still go about your life quite nicely and walk away without any real scars.

            TL;DR – in reality MRAs dont work towards helping men at all, just childishly wanna bring down women.

          • Mash Harder

            You may as well have just made that shit up for all the evidence you brought to the table of these things which you believe happen.

            I can make things up too.
            I am a zebra.

            Sent from my IPhone via Tapatalk.

          • DanCiTi

            A quick, simple google search of violence and discrimination against oppressed groups would give you plenty of substantive evidence. As for MRAs…going on their forums for 10 minutes makes it clear they are a pack of man-babies.

          • JasinWalraven

            Josh you are an idiot. I hope a girl falsely accuses you of rape and you can live what happens to men at the hands of idiots like yourself

          • SgtKardashian

            Misandry is as real as Heterophobia, Cisphobia or the Easter Bunny.

          • Mash Harder

            You lost me.

          • Josh

            Hey, I have a friend who said he saw the Misandry Bunny last year!

          • Jolly Green

            “There were nazis who didn’t actively kill people, just supported the system that allowed it.”

            Same can be said about feminists. Even IF what you say about MRAs were true (not saying that they are or are not), it doesn’t really help in your defense to hide or ignore the negative things done by the side you are defending. It actually makes them look bad.

          • Josh

            The thing is that even radical feminists who do shitty things don’t encourage bad systems, they just do bad things. Nazism and patriarchy are entrenched mindsets.

          • Mash Harder

            So we should swap one for the other?

          • Josh

            That’s not what we’re claiming at all. There will always be people who take good ideas too far. All we can do is try to fix the bad things. Being worried that the theoretical matriarchy might be as bad as the patriarchy is no reason not to try to stop sexual harassment.

          • Mash Harder

            I have been led to believe that the patriarchy which you are quick to reference, is supported ( in the shadows of course ) by… women.

            Is that so hard to believe?

          • Josh

            Yeah, what’s your point? Victims of a system can support it too. That doesn’t make it less bad.

          • Mash Harder

            So you intend to overthrow the system?

          • Josh

            I mean, if we are getting in to that discussion, sure, I am in full support of burning down modern social structures in favor of something new, but that’s sort of aside from this point.

            Overthrowing the localized patriarchy of the FGC isn’t an unreasonable goal.

          • Mash Harder

            I see.
            So you’re a terrorist?

          • Josh

            lol. Sure. That’s exactly what I said. Also terrorist is a term with a huge amount of terrible history, so throwing it around is, I guess fitting.

          • Mash Harder

            Well it’s been a lot of fun debating with you and everyone else.
            Disqus can’t seem to handle our massive amounts of awesome combined.

            I guess we can just leave it at you being a terrorist and me being your average Joe who supports feminism.

            Good day sir.

          • Josh

            If overthrowing oppressive systems makes me a terrorist, then sure, I’m a terrorist. Actually, I guess that makes me a wannabe terrorist.

          • JasinWalraven

            it is idiotic to believe there is a system in place in the FGC in the first place. There is not. There is no real power structure. There isn’t enough members in the FGC to amount to anything. The FGC is, for the most part sad and pathtic.

          • Jolly Green

            “The thing is that even radical feminists who do shitty things don’t encourage bad systems…”

            I see, so you are at least admitting to that now that you were called out on it. I will give you at least that much, but if not for being called out, I wonder how many other shady one sided claims you make.

          • Josh

            Dude, I am not responsible for what terrible radicals do. That’s not feminism’s fault, that doesn’t make my points any less valid.

          • Jolly Green

            Yes, but by your knowing this, you start to speak negatively about one groups radicals and not so radicals, while completely failing to make the comparison that the group that you are defending, feminism, has its own radicals and people who support it as well. That’s what I don’t get about some feminists and MRAs, not looking at the big picture, and only seeing things through their narrow viewed goggles and only seeing the suffering of one group, and frequently making the assumption that the other is oppressive or supporting something evil simply for focusing on those issues with a narrow view. Feminism helps women, MRAs help men, both pointing the finger at each other, while strays hide and misconstrue truths and hide evidence to make their side look more holy and the other satanic. Then get all surprised when someone thinks or calls their movement a “hate group”.

          • Josh

            The thing about MRAs and feminist radicals is that all MRAs are radicals because they are supporting a problematic system. Feminism is not a hateful movement, even though individuals in it are hateful. MRAs are, by definition, encouraging oppression. There is a fundamental difference there.

          • Jolly Green

            Here is my point. If I asked an MRA, they would say something along the lines of “The thing about Feminists and MRA radicals is that all Feminists are radicals because they are supporting a problematic system. MRAs are not a hateful movement, even though individuals in it are hateful. Feminists are, by definition, encouraging oppression. There is a fundamental difference there.”

            Same exact thing depending on who you are speaking to. It would at least help, if people in their movement would be more truthful and honest about things. Also, try to be less slanderous by way of that chance you might be misunderstanding something.

            I listen to both sides. There are good people in the world, and bad people in the world, no matter where you go, no matter what group you are in. When you look at the intentions of Feminism, they are looking to make things better. When you look at the intentions of MRAs, they are looking to make things better. Though a person’s interpretation of those things may differ. If you are not going to agree on things, that is fine, however it doesn’t help or do anything positive for whatever movement you are a part of, if you are going to spread hateful generalizations of the other group, especially if it is something so hypocritical as accusing group A for being a hate group because of X, while secretly saying nothing about how group B is guilty of that exact same thing. It just makes the people within that movement seem bitter and dishonest, and may even MOVE people to check out that other group and see what it’s about. Just do what you do and continue promoting peace, instead of spreading hate.

          • Mash Harder

            I appreciate your point, if no-one else does.

          • Jolly Green

            Thanks

          • Josh

            And it doesn’t change the fact that those are isolated incidents. When men do that kind of thing, they re-entrench systems that actively oppress millions of people, rather than harm a few individuals.

          • VicViper

            you tout yourself as supporting equality, yet you ignore problems that don’t concern your little group of the “oppressed”.

            How hypocritical

          • SgtKardashian

            Oh no, I’m all for discussing issues relating to Men, but that doesn’t mean Misandry is real. You misunderstand what I mean.

          • VicViper

            I’ll believe you on that one as soon as men aren’t hailed as universal oppressors and women aren’t given the benefit of the doubt by default.

          • SgtKardashian

            Well, men are the dominant gender in our society, society was built to benefit them at the expense of women. Sure, gay men, black men and the like all suffer from being gay in a hetero-sexist society and black men suffer from being black in a racist society, but they still get the privileges all men get for being men.

          • David Curry

            It isn’t Internet feminism if it doesn’t have every fallacy listed on the glossary page of a Logic 101 textbook

  • Patrick Toworfe

    I appreciate how honest and balanced her post was. This issue’s been bugging me for a while and it’s nice to see someone be real about it and talk about all aspects of the problem.

  • slimetime

    I wish there were more ladies at SF tournaments. I’m the only one who goes to our locals.
    Honestly though I don’t feel like negativity towards women in FGC events is that bad. It’s 2014 muddafuckas. I’ve never had any problems at tournaments but das cuz im so godlike doe

  • Josh

    Great to see this getting attention here. It’s been making some waves in the smash community (as it well should) and combined with other recent events like FCLauren reporting a harasser to the Canadian police and the pastebin by a SF player with the nail salon analogy, it really feels like this issue is coming in to broader light.

    Hopefully the FGC response to this post will be a generally positive as it was in the smash community.

  • Victor Thammavong

    If we had more female fighting gamers like this though…

    • http://whitelotusstudio.blogspot.com/ Chopsuey9444

      It’s funny how the LoL community is apparently much worse.

    • Tekknight

      I watched it all, but I’m not exactly sure which quality you were trying to get us to notice.

    • Rorshock

      Female fighting gamers like what?

      • Victor Thammavong

        Like whoa.

  • Patrick Toworfe

    Consider also that perhaps there arent female players because that’s what it just so happens to be. Obviously people’s detrimental behavior is a factor, but it’s also possible that some women aren’t interested in fighting games. Not cause they’re women but because they personally don’t care. And it also just so happens that there’s more guys that do care, once again, not cause of gender. It’d be great to have more female players in every scene but whether or not they’re interested is up to them. I do agree that people need to treat them equally (perhaps the best point in her post; none of this preferential treatment bs) and some people are douchebags (male or female), but I’ve noticed that it’s just coincidence that there aren’t enough women in some communities whilst others have loads. It’s one of those things I guess. Still, shoutouts to this woman’s post. Actually felt like a good read of propositions not just whining and/or man-hating.

    • Josh

      The first big chunk of what you said is not only false, but completely irrelevant. The fact that the community is hostile towards women needs to be addressed. Writing the lack of female representation off as a coincidence just allows the problem to continue.

      • Patrick Toworfe

        I wasn’t writing it off as complete coincidence, it was merely conjecture. I wasn’t downplaying the necessity of addressing the issue, i was talking about how it just so happens that there’s more male gamers as coincidence, that’s all. Dude, I fully support everything she said in her post, this was more of an aside than anything else. No need to get so serious about it man =/

        • Josh

          😛 Well, I’m going to keep getting serious about it because it’s a serious issue, but I appreciate the last part of what you’re saying. Just including the other part feels like derailing or downplaying.

          • Patrick Toworfe

            Never my intention. I was speculating over the whole ‘why isn’t there more women’ part, because as I said ‘it’s one of those things’. I don’t personally believe it’s because toxic behavior is directly responsible. Were that the case all the time, FPS communities wouldn’t have so many female players, or MMOs and MOBAs for that matter.The amount of female fighting game players could be something that can be investigated, like we could ask girl gamers in general, non gamers and girl’s who’ve at least played a fighting game etc. For me I’m interested in the social aspect and I’d like more female fighting game players, but i dont know for certain why there aren’t so many. As for the aspect of being more welcoming and less hostile then yeah I don’t need to comment on that part, it’s a given, haha. I’m just the sorta guy that considers the other points.

          • Peter Loney (ピーター)

            An important part to remember is that fighting games are 95% offline, whereas all the other genres you mentioned can be played competitively completely online. If you don’t talk vocally online, you don’t have to deal with anyone knowing you’re a girl. You also aren’t forced to interact with anyone except your teammates and TOs/judges.

          • Patrick Toworfe

            Fair enough, that’s a good point. Though it sounds like it draws back to the whole toxic community thing. I’d argue then that there’s more diversity by convenience, playing a game at home instead of going to events and internet anonymity is useful for any person. Cause to agree fully would imply that all women are scared off by the social interaction in the FGC and I think that sells them short. I don’t really think it’s as simple as women being too scared to talk to the guys in the community for whatever reason. This isn’t me trying to be difficult mind you, haha. Cause you raised a good point, although it seemed to imply that the reason is that all women are turned off by the interactions. If that isn’t what you meant, that’s fine too. Overall i was looking for different viewpoints on this topic

          • Peter Loney (ピーター)

            That’s one way to look at it, but I meant it more as a ‘if someone is being a total jerk in WoW or DotA or CS:Go, you can just mute him’. You can’t just mute an FGC member, you have to put up with them or not turn up.

          • Josh

            Also, it’s hard to molest or repeatedly sexually harass someone over the internet. Casual sexism and stuff only exist in person, at gatherings, like, say, tournaments.

          • Hex Maniac Michael

            :3 sexual harassment online is very easy & very common actually

          • Josh

            Yeah, but the kind of repeated sexual harassment that can’t be blocked or muted only happens in person.

            Edit: I was being rash, it depends on the infrastructure in place to mute and block people. Some places definitely make it harder to get away from poor treatment.

          • Mash Harder

            Can confirm.
            Impossible to molest over the internet.
            just kidding take it easy.

          • Josh

            If you look down about an inch, you’ll see that I corrected myself, because when pointed out, I agreed that was a dumb thing to say.

          • Mash Harder

            I was sure you were going to reinterpret the word.
            Good on you.

          • Patrick Toworfe

            That’s true. I’d say also that applies to everybody, male and female. Belligerence online is easily dealt with but in real life it’s a problem. A lot of people overall get cussed in online games and it’s an easy fix. In regards to female players though, i wonder what their individual reasons are. I do imagine that the belligerence is a factor. But say in the circumstance where there is none, what could the reason be. For example, in the SFxT community, I don’t think there’s any female players and our community’s been super cool since we’ve had to deal with everyone else’s bs, haha. I’d wanna know what reasons there are; maybe it’s game dependent, maybe’s it’s the events, maybe’s it’s the people etc. A lot of thinks to think about, thanks

          • Hex Maniac Michael

            It’s kind of the combination of weird/gross behaviour in person & also the backlash of sudden visibility online (if you’re on stream – or even in the background – people will find you online) & the subsequent harassment that really doesn’t help encourage women to keep playing.

          • Patrick Toworfe

            Fair enough. Though would you say this applies to all women? Or that all
            women immediately assume that the whole community is like this from
            instances alone? I would assume that the individual views it in different ways and I don’t think they see it as pure black & white. Of course, like with any toxic behavior (racism, homophobia, even class-ism) it’s enough to deter people from being a part of something. I believe that the FGC does a lot to show how welcoming and inclusive it is; all the promotional videos and all the tournament/hype montages, interviews etc. I can understand that seeing them and seeing the predominant male presence might be a turn off for some women, but wouldn’t others also think “There may not be many women there but it looks like a great place to be a part of” or “I should endeavor to introduce more women myself””. Y’know, something positive like that. I’m not saying that a couple of adverts make everything ok, but surely it’s like any other community or gathering of people; you’re bound to find some bad ones in there which may not be vocally reprimanded but tbh it’s a given that those things are wrong in the first place. Personally, I’d like to know on a bigger scale what reasons that girls/girl gamers might have for wanting to get into the FGC or not. Cause if we’re hoping to get more women competing, I don’t think simply reprimanding douchebags is the only solution, nor do I think it’s the root of the problem. Regardless, I’m glad everyone’s offering different points of view, it’s helping to frame a better understanding of the topic.

    • slimetime

      im a gurrrrrrrl gamer and I was too scared to go to tournaments at first because of all the horror stories I read on the internet about how mean everyone was to females. I’m lucky my community is so lovely and not lame, but I’m sure out there, somewhere in the mist, other girls that love the games might also have the same problem.

      • Nikki Reynolds

        I saw you playing Ibuki at Kumite !!! Thanks for sharing your opinion.

        • slimetime

          lol, i got bodied tho

      • sf4guy

        That Cody was a scrub. He gave that to you.

        • Mash Harder

          Real talk.
          That was his alt anyway.

        • slimetime

          yea dude I don’t know how he made it that far into pools.
          ヘ(´-`;)ヘ

      • http://www.soundcloud.com/ZeroLovesDnB 00000000

        This is what I want to know though: locally (NOT online, not streams) how many of us -feel- that our community is accepting? I’m seeing a ton of knee-jerk reaction to [insert demographic here] and the “FGC” but very few people seem to want to note their own community in their comments.

        Here in SoCal, specifically at Super Arcade, there are a few women and a good chunk of them do play (at various skill levels, even). Not once have I seen or heard them being hated on, they are treated as “just another competitor”.

        Do you all see anything different in your local circles?

        *The reason I say this is because people are generally pretty damn easy to convince when it comes to broad statements. Many people I know outside of Los Angeles and California would swear to you that it’s a hellish, terrible place but when they visit or I meet people that have relocated to here, most don’t understand how it even got such a bad rep. You see stuff like that everyday, think about how often someone posts a picture or quote to a social network and people just instantly believe that it’s genuine; very often it is not and can be easily dismissed with just a modicum of fact checking. I am not trying to dismiss discrimination (it is everywhere and happens to practically everyone) I simply just want to know what you guys see locally and IRL.

        • slimetime

          In my own community (Indiana/Midwest), everyone is absolutely accepting. As far as girls go, some people were skeptical at first, I’m sure, but I’ve proven myself to be a decent player, so everyone treats me like just another asshole Ibuki.

          So I feel in my guts, because of that, if another lady popped up at the Indy local (Godlike Saturday, if you’re near Indiana, come check it out~) then no one would bat an eye at her. It’s a small step, but it’s a step in the right direction.

          I don’t know how things are with other women, or in bigger scenes, but at least in Indiana, everyone is absolutely lovely, and not in the “Oh, a girl, let’s be extra nice to her and let her win :33333” kind of way, mentioned in Milktea’s article.

          When I’ve traveled out of state, there was only one time (that I know of) that someone was actually saying derogatory/sexist things to/about me, but he was a douche and also terrible at the game so stay free stay salty etc

          Overall, I don’t think it’s as bad as the internet makes it out to be. Sure there are small things that happen here and there, but for the most part, at least in the midwest, everyone is very accepting.

          Sorry for the huge post talking about myself.

          But for real everyone should come to Godlike Saturday oops I dropped this link https://www.facebook.com/events/1391868711077562/?ref=br_tf

          • http://www.soundcloud.com/ZeroLovesDnB 00000000

            That’s wonderful! Thank you for answering my query. I do agree (from what I gather) that because of the way that information travels currently things get blown up. Not that they aren’t issues to begin with but “news” and accepting minds are very ready to accept a few instances as an outbreak.

            Really happy to hear that out in Indiana (I have a bunch of friends in and from IN) players are cool and you have no personal problems blowing people up and getting blown up, hahaha.

            So far, that’s two places, accounted for for having a humane community. Thanks for the input!

          • kingsharkboi

            Listen to the first 50 seconds and the stuff at 5:01……it’s this default attitude toward females that needs to change. Stuff like “Yea I lost to a girl BUT [insert excuse here]” and “This is no ordinary girl” aren’t harsh but they also come from a skewed perspective where girls are inherently worse.
            I have no doubts that the commentators are nice and decent people, but you can tell 1 of them is trying hard to legitimize her to the stream, when he shouldn’t have to. That’s what’s wrong with the people Milktea addresses (even otherwise nice guys), especially communities that don’t have 4-star girls and for some reason underestimate their potential when they finally do see one. Good that you have a great local community, but even you said that some were “skeptical” at first.

          • slimetime

            Ah, yeah, that’s true. Egh, what a pain. I feel like it’s all going in the right direction, but I guess the “default” is still like “Oh it’s a girl she probably suxxxx” when it shouldn’t be like that at all.
            I did ask another Ibuki to play casuals once, and he said he didn’t want to play with me at first because he thought I was just another dum gurrrrrrl gamr, but changed his mind when he saw me play.
            That’s lame.

            Also people pick their secondaries against me a lot and that’s annoying too. That kind of stuff really only happens out of state though.

          • slimetime

            Being underestimated and over-praised is really annoying. I wish I could convincingly cross dress sometimes because I just want to play fuckin’ video games like everyone else.
            In the end though, it’s just annoying, but it’s not like a big issue that keeps me awake at night.

        • CapnWTF

          I live in Maryland, and while the Scene here isn’t anything amazing, everyone seems to be nice and accepting of people. Doesn’t matter who you are; gay, straight, whatever. If you can use a controller we’ll teach you how to play.
          But I have noticed that while there are a few girls, the majority of them just don’t really give a shit about fighting games.

          • http://www.soundcloud.com/ZeroLovesDnB 00000000

            I played wit some of the NoVA and Maryland crew a few years ago (Namely Perfect SiN and the dudes he hangs with); very nice guys to take in an “outsider” like me into their company.

            Well, it’s good that they can hang out without being bothered, as that’s what I was wondering. If they don’t seem to be into Fighting games, that’s a completely different thing. Thanks for sounding off for Maryland!

  • grezex29

    If someone’s playing games and going to tournaments, they’re a ‘gamer’, that’s it. They’re not “a black gamer” or “an asian gamer” or “a gay gamer”, or “a female gamer”, they’re ‘a gamer’. When I see someone play, I don’t go “oh shit, a girl’s playing, and worry if I should treat her any differently. Hell, I don’t go and wonder “why aren’t there many women playing?”. I very much feel the people who are interested and want to show up for tournaments will show up regardless of age/race/gender/sexuality.

    Are there negative thing towards some female gamers? Sure. But the same goes for everyone else too. The situation should not be about “female gaming issues”, but about “overall gaming issues”. To say we need to focus on “female gaming issues” suggests that that is higher up in importance and something that needs more attention than the issues of any other gamers. In other words, it’s not “not addressing female gaming issues” that is derogatory, it’s suggesting that the issues of females who are gamers are more important than those of everybody else that’s the derogatory mindset. True equality in gaming just references everybody who plays as ‘a gamer’, and doesn’t even say ‘male gamers’ or ‘female gamers’ or whatever.

    • Josh

      Right, but getting to “pure equality” means looking at where bad systems exist right now, calling them out, and getting rid of them. We can’t pretend that everything will just become equal, because it’s not. As long as we’re ignoring the fact that the community has a history of sexism and poor treatment of women, we will never move forward.

      • http://www.youtube.com/user/tsdcs TS

        What “bad systems” are you talking about?

        • Josh

          The systems that backlash against women when they speak out about being harassed or molested.

          • grezex29

            So…you mean like in overall legitimately oppressive countries that are fascist, dictatorships, or “communist”, and not “we’re going to say they’re oppressive even though they’re really not” countries like Canada, the US, and the UK?

          • Josh

            What? I’m not talking about countries. I’m talking about gaming communities.

          • grezex29

            Well, it’s certainly not like that Cross Assault incident is at all an accurate representation of the gaming community as a whole.

          • Josh

            No, but it takes a certain type of community to even allow that kind of thing to happen in the first place. No on is accusing everyone of being a terrible person, but we need to realize that the fact that he felt comfortable saying that kind of stuff is a problem, and we need to make it so no one feels comfortable saying that sexual harassment is okay.

          • grezex29

            The only people to blame for that incident are the people who actually did it themselves. It’s not fair to go and point the finger at everybody for it. If someone beats the crap out of someone else on the street, you don’t charge everybody in a 400 metre radius with assault. You just charge the one person, because they’re the one to blame.

          • Josh

            No, but to ignore the culture that we’re allowing to exist is to deflect blame. The fact that he was a respected person in the community and that he felt comfortable saying those things is a problem. The fact that the sexual harassment that he was endorsing even exists is a problem. And no, it’s not just those individuals’ fault, it’s the responsibility of everyone in the community to make it clear that kind of shit is not tolerated here. We are failing to do that.

          • grezex29

            The blame for something like that lies solely on A. those who do it, and B. those who say it’s perfectly fine and endorse it. Not vocally going on a talk and saying you’re against people being treated badly in no way means you’re for it, and to just assume that people who don’t go on and on about being against something is totally ridiculous. I don’t need to go and ask someone if they’re against things like rape, or murder, or the beliefs of the KKK, or abuse or anything like that, because typically if somebody’s a decent person, then it’s a given that they’re not going to be some sexist, racist, raping violent asshole.

          • Josh

            Sure, but the fact that we’re not being vocal about these issues is what allows people to get away with doing it. The blame lies only on the person who does the bad thing, but we are all responsible for preventing and punishing it. If someone feels comfortable being abusive, that’s all of our fault.

          • grezex29

            Of course we’re responsible for punishing those who do it, but the many are not at fault for and responsible for the actions of the few. Hell, to say we are is actually giving excuses for the few who do things like this.

          • Josh

            You’re not listening to me. When they feel comfortable doing it, that’s a larger cultural problem.

          • grezex29

            No, when they feel comfortable doing it, that means they’re fucked up in the head.

          • Josh

            You’re just wrong about that. It’s not a random thing. Our community has a problem with the way it treats women and deals with people speaking out about their mistreatment.

          • grezex29

            No, people who are IN the community have problems with how they treat women. Saying that “our community has a problem with the way it treats women” very clearly suggests that those people who do those things ARE representative of the entire community. If they weren’t, you would be saying “some people in our community” and not “our community” itself. Doing that, very obviously makes a generalization that places the blame on everybody, including those who have nothing at all to do with said actions.

          • Josh

            Yes. I am saying that it’s everyone’s fault. If it were just like two people’s fault, then this would be an easy problem and we would just blacklist them from events. The problem is that good people allow the bad things to happen. That’s what makes this a big issues.

          • kingsharkboi

            For exaggerated comparison.
            If “Boy X” steals “Sleeping man Y” ipod on the train, and several people see it and don’t bat an eye, there’s something wrong. No, “Witness Z” in the nearby chair is not a criminal for not speaking out. Nobody’s gonna fine him for acting like he has nothing to do with the problem.

            You are “Z”, and don’t worry, nobody’s holding you accountable for all the problematic X’s in the FGC. But it’s time to change, and you can only help by fostering an environment where X’s are not tolerated period.

          • Mash Harder

            You are talking about the bystander effect.

            Good luck fixing that over the coming decade. Where consumerism continues to exacerbate the desire for vicarious experience.

            While I won’t argue that the topic and effect are related, they are hardly unique in their relatedness.

          • Josh

            Dude, vicarious experiences have nothing to do with this. We aren’t hoping to fix the bystander effect in all instances, just ones in the FGC.

          • kingsharkboi

            I know what the bystander effect is, but some don’t. Anyway, we are a community. We want more people to feel welcome and we wanna turn off less people.

            In my public train example, you can say “wow the entire population of this train cart is f***** up!” and then move on with your life. But this is different…it’s a community based on interest and social fun, and people don’t HAVE to ride it to get to work like they do the train. We have to fix bad mentalities ourselves and therefore have to instill an atmosphere that intimidates/discourages such behavior.

          • Mash Harder

            I read the article. If those things are really problems, they can be fixed. I don’t understand why these things happen… I wouldn’t do them myself.

            I think some of this is just social anxiety; like her desire to not be treated like a mythical creature. I don’t think that is any man’s intention, merely a side effect.

          • kingsharkboi

            “oooh ouch dude, you got beaten by a girl!” Is a simple example quote that I’m no stranger to hearing variants of. Even from stream commentators in the FGC.

            Imagine hearing that during a tourney match, stream or pools on the side, and then not countering it by stepping in. When nobody even so much as contests guys who say that stuff, then the girl is under the impression that “girl” is some mythical handicapped form of human (that men shouldn’t lose to) and that all the silent people may be in ok with that view. I’m not speaking for all girls, but it’s my inference & I hope you can understand.

          • Mash Harder

            OH!
            We are not speaking of men.
            We are speaking of children!

          • Josh

            Dude, you got beaten by a girl is a thing you hear well respected people in the FGC say. Call them what you like, they are community leaders, and they are role models for how other people in the community act.

          • Mash Harder

            Then I have to assume alcohol was involved.

          • Josh

            A) No, it’s a really common thing
            B) That’s a shitty excuse. Being drunk doesn’t give you a pass on being sexist.

          • Mash Harder

            WHAT KIND OF WORLD AM I LIVING IN?

          • kingsharkboi

            Like it or not, it happens. The fgc is unregulated and that’s both a good and bad thing. Just because YOU are good about equality doesn’t mean others in your community don’t have a skewed view on girls.

            1 of the points of the blog was awareness, and when a girl is present at a populated tournament, this shit DOES go down from time to time. Now, once you see it blatantly, try to volunteer and counter it especially if nobody else does. Don’t give a crap about white knight accusations.

          • SgtKardashian

            That’s how it is, humans generalize erroneously and while you have a point, Josh has a point with the obvious sexism in the FGC, there is an issue whether you would like to admit or not.

          • VicViper

            no, it’s an individual problem.

            if it were a larger cultural problem, Aris wouldn’t be the only one who was talked about

          • Hex Maniac Michael

            Yeah, sorry, most of the global south that people call ‘legitimately oppressive’ have the same issues you find in the States & Canada.

          • SgtKardashian

            Oh my days, Ms.Hex herself, this shit is about to get real.

          • Josh

            Yeah, Eurocentrism and white supremacy have done a really good job teaching us that America and the UK are pretty much perfect while Africa and South America are basically just on fire, which is pretty far from the truth.

          • SgtKardashian

            Are you implying that Murica isn’t the best country on the planet communist, terrorist scum?

          • grezex29

            So you mean they also have issues that are completely over-exaggerated and blown out of proportion to seem like they’re far worse than they’re close to being? Because that’s how it is in Canada.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/tsdcs TS

            And what does this have to do with fighting game tournaments?

          • Josh

            People get harassed at tournaments, they speak out about it, they get punished by the community.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/tsdcs TS

            You aren’t really describing a system. You are describing aberrant behavior which you are classifying as normative or systematic.

          • Josh

            Because it is both. When a behavior is so common that the fear of it motivates action, it is a system.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/tsdcs TS

            You have not established that said behaviors are common, and so they cannot be defined as systematic in that regard, either. The following step would be to prove that the greater scene is okay with those sorts of behaviors, and you’re going to have a hard time proving that one, as well.

            Anecdotally, at most places I’ve played or tournaments I’ve been to, if a woman accused someone of being a creeper or harassing her, or certainly touching her, the social consequences for the accused would be worse than those of the accuser. (benevolent sexism, you know)

            As another aside, you seem to be downplaying the idea of female gamers not speaking up, and placing the blame on the masses of male gamers for not knowing about or not rooting out various behaviors- something that the author of the blog post above was very careful to not do. You are unintentionally minimizing a powerful ability of the aggrieved party in an attempt to castigate the supposedly responsible group, which seems to me to be especially (doubly) counterproductive.

          • Josh

            Those behaviors are common. When women say they are uncomfortable with behaviors, they are told anything from “suck it up” to “that’s just how it is” to “you should dress differently” to being called a liar and an attention whore. These things are happen, and they happen a lot.

            And female gamers don’t speak up because they don’t feel comfortable speaking up. That’s another problem with the community, not with the individual victims. When victims choose to stay silent, that’s because we are not doing our job supporting them and stopping the backlash.

          • Jolly Green

            Well that’s the thing, and also what I think the first post of this was referring too. Females are NOT the only ones who are victims of things in the community. Sure, a female might run into something uncalled for in regards to her sex, because her sex is different, but here is the thing. The community also has many people of different races, religions, sexual orientations etc., and they TOO get singled out for those things that are “different” as well. They might fight back or speak out about it, or not, but it still happens. I’ve seen and heard racial trolling in regards to how dark Dieminion’s skin color was. I hear uncalled for things in regards to Ricky Oriz and his sexual orientation too, and these are a couple of strong players even.

            A lot of people just “suck it up” because “that’s just how it is” etc. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that that is the way it needs to be or needs to stay like that or anything. Those things need to be addressed as well. But what I think grezex29 was trying to get out there, before getting sidetracked, was that PEOPLE in the community get targeted for being DIFFERENT, regardless of what it’s about, but when it’s about females, I kind of feel like our inner white knight starts to surface up and we start to feel more motivated to do something about it. While I do think that issues with sexism against females in the community needs to be addressed, what makes that group so much more deserving of exclusive support in setting things straight that other groups are to apparently continue to be ignored.

            What needs to be done, if anything, is make the community more welcoming to ALL demographics (including females, to avoid confusion). Equality isn’t really equal if some are more equal than others.

          • Josh

            Can we maybe not refer to women as “females?” That feels really weird and otherizing to me.

          • Jolly Green

            Some are adults, women, some are teens or children, girls. Female covers both. If we get tooooo too politically correct, we are going to have a hard time making reference to anyone. Female should NOT be viewed as a negative term, and I will not treat it as such.

          • SgtKardashian

            There is a difference between being politically correct and using language that otherizes people friend.

          • Jolly Green

            I understand this, however, acknowledging male =/= female should not generate any negative connotation of sorts. Just because an orange is not an apple does not mean that either is any better or worse than the other. If someone wants to say something like “young women”, that is fine, but saying female does not “otherize” anything any more than it naturally already is. I’m not going to let myself feel pressured to view the word “female” as anything negative at all whatsoever, for any reason.

            Anywho, if you have anything else to say that’s fine, I just don’t see myself getting into any potential arguments over semantics, so I’m pretty much done here.

          • Josh

            That’s not the thing I was criticizing though. It’s not “Male vs female” its “Females vs. women.”

            It’s just a very distant word that feels like we’re talking about some other species, rather than people.

          • Guest

            Edit: never mind.

          • Josh

            And to address the actual point you made, yes, I think there are a lot of problems with people who aren’t straight dudes, but A) women are a disproportionately big group of people being excluded and harassed and B) to the best of my knowledge, the ways that women are being harassed and victimized are significantly worse than the ways people who aren’t straight and cis are.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/tsdcs TS

            A) Prove it.
            B) Prove it.

            You seem to be making a lot of claims which are degrading to an entire subculture, based on a lot of assumptions.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/tsdcs TS

            “these things happen, and they happen a lot”
            Give examples, please.

          • SgtKardashian

            1. They are common and they are systematic, there have been numerous instances of the FGC supporting sexism and excluding Women.

            2. You’re speaking from a position of privilege. Benevolent sexism is wrong and to be honest, it’s hard for Women to come out and speak on creeping and creepers without be the victims of massive victim blaming “She should have dressed better” and stupid arguments like that. Also, the way the FGC operates, we can’t honestly say that a creeper will actually face any social consequences, Aris was openly sexist on a stream and faced few if any consequences, heck he was let back on stream shortly after the Cross Assualt Fiasco at WNF.

            3. The issue is the FGC makes it toxic for women to speak their minds. Look at how male members of the FGC trashed and trolled the Women Gamers FGC club on Facebook and then cried “sexism” when they weren’t invited, ignoring the fact the FGC is a male-dominated sphere where Women are treated as the “other’ frequently. You’re also trying to go for an eye for an eye argument while ignoring the fact that males have much more power socially in the FGC than females.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/tsdcs TS

            1. A few examples does not indicate a cultural norm (literally, the opposite). But since it happens so much and so often, feel free to list some.

            2. You’re use of “you’re speaking from a position of privilege” is being used as an ad hominem in this case, please be more careful throwing that around in the future. But to use more feminist lingo, you continue to deny women agency in the name of your advocating for them.

            Because the various subcultures which people call the Fighting Game Community are almost entirely male (by percentage of populations), if women are being taken advantage of and not speaking up, there is little hope for the problem to be addressed. I will state again that your rhetoric is disempowering to women and girls who fear harassment or discrimination- instead of encouraging them to enact change, you complain about the patriarchy, as you are wont to do.

            As far as “the way the FGC operates”, I’m not sure you are qualified to speak on that issue. Few people are, really, but having played these games with other people and attended tournaments over the past 15 or so years, you are describing something rather different and much more hypothetical than what I’ve seen and heard and been involved with for half of my life. So I’ll suggest that you not misrepresent an entire subculture of thousands of people.

            Benevolent sexism, by the way, is the reason this article/blog post has gotten the amount of attention that is. To label it “wrong” is a rather black-and-white way of looking at the world.

            3. Prove it. The New York Times comment sections are often full of garbage comments by weirdos, that doesn’t mean that only crazy people read it. A Facebook group getting trolled to death (taking your word for it) says little about the FGC you so casually and broadly libel.

      • Know_the_ledge

        Define what you mean by pure equality.

    • Hex Maniac Michael

      Actually it’s not about an issue being ‘higher up’ in importance, it’s recognizing that women are approached in a way unique to our gender.

  • dietdrkelp

    This sjw stuff is leaking everywhere huh

    • SgtKardashian

      It’s not a bad conversation to have.

      • Johnny Donuts

        yes it is
        The only reason this conversation keeps happening is people like Anita Sarkeesian and Kotaku trolled everyone so they can make money off of it.

        • SgtKardashian

          We shouldn’t point out the sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc in video games and the community around them?

          • Johnny Donuts

            no, its not an issue.
            I’m sorry you have poor critical thinking skills.

          • SgtKardashian

            I have poor critical thinking skills because I disagree with what you said?

          • Jolly Green

            To be fair, I don’t really see much awareness being brought out about racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. in video games, despite having witnessed such things firsthand, as well as from a distance. Only sexism against women.

            While ALL of these things need to be pointed out (including sexism against female gamers), primarily focusing on sexism against women in video games and game communities due to recent efforts of Anita Sarkeesian / Kotaku is a fair assessment. Perhaps a near exclusive focus on a completely different demographic will be the focus of next year?

            I mean, where are all of the homosexual gamers in the FGC? Do you think that perhaps the numbers are so low because of discrimination? Are they made to feel uncomfortable entering due to the negative social systematic constructs of the FGC?Or maybe a better question would be, are we even AWARE of such matters in the first place? Perhaps it just takes one major incident for gears to shift into that direction. But until then, let’s just ignore everything else, and just enjoy the flavor of the week…

  • RunningWild1984

    Don’t care if you are a man or a woman.

    I am gonna Power Dunk your ass then Power Geyser you.

    • SolarShift

      After reading 100+ posts of serious/troll debates, I enjoy your inclusive attitude, your post and my day is better for it.

      • Mash Harder

        Was I trolling?

        • SolarShift

          I don’t remember your part in the discussions, were you?

          • Mash Harder

            Yes and no.
            I don’t remember why I asked you.

    • SSS

      KK shitlord :)

  • Sp00ks Pls

    “Where are all the women? Why are there so few?” I am really confused. Why is this only an issue in the FGC when there are hardly any women in any competitive games scene.

    • Josh

      Why are you getting so defensive? We’re trying to make our scene better. If you want to help improve those scenes too, that’s great, but don’t say “Hey look, they’re bad too!” as an excuse not to examine our own faults.

      • SgtKardashian

        Hypocrisy logical fallacy is strong in the FGC.

      • VicViper

        why did you get so defensive over a mere observation?

        you literally just put words in his mouth.

      • Sp00ks Pls

        Defensive? Sorry if your thirst is real.

  • Felipe Pereira

    i have a dream. and I dream with a day where gamers won’t be judged by the color of their skin, oh wait, we don’t do that, gamers won’t be judged by their sex, but for their gaming skills!

    • Mash Harder

      FGC ahead of the curve in the race department.
      If only we could get women to play video games!

  • J.D SRK

    Amazing! I agree with everything she says, and I really like the message.
    One small detail though.
    It irritates me that some people from the Smash community continue to claim that Smash is the most watched fighting game. Its not, it was topped by UMVC3 just a few hours later with 144k. I mention it because the piece talks about awareness.
    I really hope she could edit that part, and I don’t feel offended per say, it just makes the amazing piece look a little worse than it should.

    • kingsharkboi

      she said “broke” which is different from “held” the record or any variant. Melee broke previous concurrent records, then Marvel broke Melee’s record. Both are true, so no worries.

  • kingsharkboi

    Here’s a similar conversation in video/conversation form. It can apply to many communities and covers quite a few topics. Works like a companion to her post.

  • Sanger Zonvolt

    Reading comments on any video featuring Milktea playing I can see where she is coming from.

    • Josh

      Yeah, comments and chats get pretty gross.

    • SgtKardashian

      It’s called Lewis’s Law, any story about sexism will have a comments section that reinforces the existence of sexism. The same can be said of Feminism.

  • Adorabunny

    This kills the Discus

  • Sarvets

    The funny thing is… a woman who achieved number one consistently would only be hated more! FGC is all about love and hate. not much inbetween.

  • Sarvets

    women in the fgc should just play games, ignore the BS and do their thing. If you are going to let a bunch of male gamers dictate your feelings of belonging you are in for a bumpy ride.As a male… I dont relate to many people I play with… AT ALL. TAKE THIS KNOWLEDGE. I have the impression that we have nothing in common except for the game itself.

    I never made the mistake of wondering why they are a certain way. I grew up skateboarding and bombing trains with people who were so different you couldnt even imagine that we would be in the same area.

    Its all about people doing what they feel is worthwhile. and If you dont like how it is, what it is or how it looks, then change it. If they aint listening? then figure out your next move.

    The FGC is probably the LAST place you could expect to change the mindstate of the community. People here look down on each other for what CHARACTERS they use. and what GAMES they play. Quit trying to find social evoloution here it aint hapnin. Sad but true.

    the only thing you can really do is be you. Just do that the best you can instead of trying to convince some dummy about humanity. They arent listening

    • Peter Locke

      oh my fricking GOSH you are actually defending anti-social behavior this is hilarious

      • Sarvets

        no Im just stating how people behave in the FGC in general. laugh all you want I said its sad but true

      • Sarvets

        The primary message is in the very end. just read it

  • Rocwing

    Actually can anyone explain to me what Peach is doing in that pic? Is that her Down + B? Because if so.. that means it’s no long Toad, which could mean…

    Or is it the beginning of her Up + B? I’m not even trolling, I really am asking.

    • Rocwing

      Wait never mind, it seems to be a ribbon effect added to her Up smash, but it looks like gave it a bigger hit box?

  • TruthD

    So a girl who never won a major or was good enough to be considered a top player is complaining that girls have to go through the exact same thing guys to through while also complaining that gender shouldn’t matter yet writing a article in which gender is all that matters….sounds legit.

    Let’s destroy sexism by demanding women be at the forefront of every issue the FGC has going for it…I love how feminist define equality.

    • Garrett Jones

      I envision any fight for equality like a pendulum. It’s been held high in man’s position for so long that the shove from women to make things equal will end up swinging it in their favor for a bit. Which is unfortunate, but eventually it will come back and rest at the center. That equality would never happen if it weren’t for that first push.

      Of course this metaphor breaks down if you want to argue what equality is. Men and women will never be the same in many ways, but in the context of video games it somewhat works.

  • Pironeko

    Pretty good piece. She’s definitely well spoken on the issue. Personally I feel like the FGC would be more inviting if there were less top players named Dr. Pee Pee as well, seeing as that’s not inviting in the slightest.

  • Mike Pureka

    Number of posts before someone says something INCREDIBLY STUPID and backwards about this article on SRK?

    ZERO.

    Good job community, you make me proud. -_-

  • Guest

    “I cannot be more blunt: treat female Smash players with the same amount of respect you would treat male ones.”

    This doesn’t seem like a good idea…

    • Peter Locke

      oh so respecting someone as a human being because they are a human being is a bad idea?

      • SSS

        NO, what he’s saying is that he treats his male gamers with little respect, so he’s going to do the same shitty shit to the female gamers.

        Which is ALL SORTS OF PROBLEMATIC

  • Trey Roach

    Ok 1st let’s be real for a moment, the reason why there are so few women in the FGC period is due to the typical condescending manner in which most women view gaming…especially our scenes of gaming in particular. So with that being said outside of the FGC most of our fellow players are already subject to the tyranny of our societies negative views with women being the face of this scrutiny often times labeling our exploits as juvenile time-wasting endeavors, its only natural someone would shoot negativity towards a girl (especially a cute one) because its pretty difficult to fathom a woman not bound by societies perceptions….with that being said i think targeting the FGC is pretty unfair and ultimately the wrong beast to target altogether. the real reason there are no women on the gaming scene is because society has deemed ppl of our world n community as mindless juvenile undesirables whose endeavors hold fruitless gains. Until people (MEN & WOMEN) are able to show the world this isn’t true…there will continue to be very very little female gamers.

  • VicViper

    holy fuck a post on this issue that’s not absolutely retarded

    the fact that there’s a neutral and mostly correct write up on these kinds of issues actually impresses me a lot, as most who do so aren’t really capable of rational thinking

  • ChrIsicera Scientia

    I enjoyed the article and agree with it across the board. The comments section however…

    http://arrdeearr.tumblr.com/post/49722337325/x

  • Roger Biggs

    She has a vag, so she can say things like “no debate” and still demand to be heard out. It’s this simple, they aren’t there because generally they can’t play. Why would they care if they can’t beat make counterparts? fires won’t get colder because there aren’t enough female firefighters, why should the fgc make an exception for women?

    • Peter Locke

      here’s the truth: Women gamers are JUST as good as male gamers, but the way we treat them just happens to make them play worse and have worse playing habits. because it’s hard to play properly when everyone treats you horribly. Just ask Floe.

  • Yudir Chang

    Call Kotaku

  • Garrett Jones

    Women are different from men.

  • Art Salmons

    I’m the only male in my Knitting Circle. You wouldn’t believe how sexist and cruel those grandmas can be.

    • SgtKardashian

      Actually sexism against Men doesn’t exist, it’s like Heterophobia or racism against Whites. Google, Sexism power plus prejudice.

      • CapnWTF

        “Sexism against men doesn’t exist”

        wat?

        sex·ism

        [ sék sìzzəm ]

        sex discrimination: discrimination against women or men because of their sex

        sexual stereotyping: the tendency to treat people as cultural stereotypes of their sex
        Uh…If this is what you meant by sexism, I feel I should tell you that it DEFINITELY is a real thing. A perfectly (probably) non anecdotal example is *Fanfare*: MLP?
        I am not a brony or a MLP fan in any way(I just don’t see the appeal) But you cannot tell me that the male viewers aren’t mistreated by other people without me laughing in your face because that’s a fucking lie and I know because I DO IT. (Though mostly jokingly)
        Any time a guy does something that isn’t “manly” they have a bunch of bullshit happen with people questioning their sexuality and mistreating them in various ways. sexism works both ways, for you to say it doesn’t is just being obtuse.
        If you want an anecdotal reason though, here’s one. When I was a kid, I liked to make things with gimp string (It’s fun) but because this wasn’t considered “normal” for a guy to do I got teased. I didn’t care really, but it still happened, and not just from guys.

        • SSS

          You are using outdated definitions that white men wrote.

          • CapnWTF

            Outdated definitions that white men wrote? Is that Sarcasm? I got that definition from MOTHERFUCKING BING DICTIONARY. and a word’s definition does not change depending on the race of the people writing it… THAT is racist.

          • SSS

            It’s not my job to educate you on how shitty you are for using a clearly white reference to reinforce your already male argument.

            Join us in 2014. MEN CANNOT EXPERIENCE SEXISM they are an oppressor class u bigot.

          • CapnWTF

            I’m just going to say this.
            A: I am black.
            B: I’m totally willing to accept your views, I’m just going to need something more tangible than “Men cannot experience sexism”, because I rebutted that.
            If anything, you are being the bigot here.

          • SSS

            I don’t care what kind of intersectional violence you experience.

            Your oppression as a POC is no excuse to apologize for rape culture. Men cannot experience sexism because they have power.

          • CapnWTF

            Can you explain to me this mystical barrier that all males seem to have at birth? I don’t know what power I have that you don’t, honestly.

            Also who is apologizing for “rape culture”?

            PS. If you keep using buzz-words instead of properly explaining yourself, I’m probably going to stop responding. I like learning new things, but this is getting a little bit irksome.

  • TruthD

    Maybe the reason women aren’t top players is because they spend too much time feeling sorry for themselves and less time getting good…crazy thought.

    • Peter Locke

      you are the scum of the earth

  • MaskedHero99

    Theres barely any females in the gane cus males are the ones that mostly play it and the majority of the females in humanity think games are for kids ect

  • Go2hell66

    Ok so if you’re playing against a dude “Beat the shit out of em”
    If you’re playing against a lady “Beat the shit out of em”

    got it!

  • Megamatics

    More of the same argument that we’ve been reading since 2010… By now I just throw out an insult and hope one of them replies to me so I can demolish every single one of their claims with logic. They refuse to think past the context of their own ideologies and cling to silly delusions of an Utopian society that will never be achieved. We can talk about getting women into more fighting game functions, but the best we can do is offer separate tournaments so that they aren’t sent home packing in the early rounds. What’s next ? holding regular spots open only for women with the main tournaments ?… if they don’t place at all or reach past the first round it will come off as a wasted effort.

    Yes, it is fun to speak of these things in the mindset that exists out of reality. That in itself is just a meaningless daydream.

  • SSS

    Social Justice Warriors would make a pretty sweet fighter premise tbh

  • SSS

    This article does nothing to mention how bad transwomen have it in the FGC. #erasure

  • Petter

    What the **** is this crap doing on Srk? Take this religious crap elsewhere.

  • Shaddox

    If women actually cared about X then they would Y it. Replace X with smash and Y with play. Notice the boilerplate answer because this issue plagues every male-majority community. I teach an undergrad course in physics and I’m not allowed to fail females because I would seem sexist and I could lose my position. I can’t wait till we emasculate Barbie and Ken a bit so guys could play with it too without being offended.

  • Baka Mopo

    GRILL! Kreygasm

    But in all seriousness, the FGC isn’t always a nice place where everyone gets along, hell, even I think the entire SRK forums is full of jerks. You can’t just demand respect. You have to earn it. Go beat some top players in tournaments and people will stop blowing you off as free and just eyecandy, and will start taking you seriously as a competitor.

  • Phil Wright

    Smash broke the record… that was subsequently broken later that night.

  • Phil Wright

    I don’t feel this article has anything of value to contribute.