Major Tournaments Agree to Rules Standardization on Player Collusion, Event Coverage Determined by Rule Inclusion and Enforcement Major Tournaments Agree to Rules Standardization on Player Collusion, Event Coverage Determined by Rule Inclusion and Enforcement
Competitive spirit is the lifeblood of the fighting game community. Unfortunately, this year we have seen a few incidents where players intentionally underperformed, usually... Major Tournaments Agree to Rules Standardization on Player Collusion, Event Coverage Determined by Rule Inclusion and Enforcement

evo2013-karaface-stage

Competitive spirit is the lifeblood of the fighting game community. Unfortunately, this year we have seen a few incidents where players intentionally underperformed, usually in the final matches of a tournament. This behavior is unacceptable, and it must end.

To guarantee the integrity of future tournaments, major tournament directors have come together to standardize Evo’s rule regarding player collusion:

Collusion of any kind with your competitors is considered cheating. If the Tournament Director determines that any competitor is colluding to manipulate the results or intentionally underperforming, the collaborating players may be immediately disqualified. This determination is to be made at the sole discretion of the Tournament Director. Anyone disqualified in this manner forfeits all rights to any titles or prizes they might have otherwise earned for that tournament.

As of this writing, the following tournaments have agreed to institute this rule:

  • Evolution Championship Series (Includes all Road to Evo events)
  • Big E Gaming Events (Northeast Championships, Summer Jam, and Winter Brawl)
  • Canada Cup Gaming (Canada Cup, April Duels)
  • Community Effort Orlando
  • Civil War
  • East Coast Throwdown
  • The Fall Classic
  • Final Round
  • Level|Up Events (SoCal Regionals, Wednesday Night Fights, and The Runback)
  • MTLSF Events
  • Northwest Majors
  • Shadowloo Showdown
  • NorCal Regionals
  • Toronto Top Tiers (TORYUKEN, Canadian East Coast Championships)
  • Treta Championship
  • Ultimate Fighting Game Tournament
  • Armshouse

Furthermore, Shoryuken and EventHubs have agreed to only cover events that include this rule and enforce it at their tournament. To receive coverage of any kind, the tournament organizers must post official rules for their event, including the rule above.

Mad Catz, one of the most stalwart supporters of the fighting game community, has expressed its support for the rule.

Mad Catz proudly supports the fighting game community, and we want to take a serious stand when it comes to supporting not only players, events, but the overall community. Out of respect to all the other sponsors/event organizers that put their time and resources into creating amazing events, we want to make sure that everything is done to maintain the integrity and respect of those events.

Mad Catz is in full support of a standard set of rules to preserve the legitimacy of each event, and going forward will only support events that institute such rules.

Tournament organizers, if you want to be included in this coalition, simply enforce this rule at your events and make sure it’s stipulated under your event’s rules.

(images courtesy of Kara Leung)

  • Dynami

    Word. Good stuff.

  • EA575

    YOOOOO!

  • SHOGUNDo

    YOU KNOW WHAT NEO IS SAYINNNNNN?????

  • Ryan ♡( •ॢ◡-ॢ)✧˖° ♡

    Good. Pot splitting is whatev, but at least play that shit out for real.

    • KubikiriTurkojin

      i agree and disagree at the same time.

      when players are playing a final they should just play for real even if they are hiding certain set ups or whatever. just dont use those set ups but play the best you can for an enjoyable final worth watching.

      now the part im disagreeing on. if 2 players that are friends with potsplittng sceams are in a half final, the winner of the other half final is an opponent or an opponent that uses a character that has a really slim chance of winning against one of these splitters but the other splitter has a good chance of winning, it should be obvious that the one with the highest chance of winning for the splitters should win, must win.

      in cases like this it would be more wise for them to play as if they are playing for real but fuck over the sponsers/organisers. it would be dumb to go into a final where your chances of winning are minimal while the chances of the partner you just eliminated were really good against the finals player.

      before people start acting like complete retards, imagine yourself in a half final where you can win 10k in the finals and your splitting the pot. your partner is the one who has the other finalists number and you use a character thats ryu against a finalist that uses sim. props to you for wanting to play even if you know you will lose, but it doesnt change the fact that its completely retarded to do so. besides i dont think your partner who you will be splitting the pot with would be too happy about that either.

      • Sentsuizan

        Why enter the tournament if you don’t think you can win?

        • juggernaut1981

          Experience, so that you’ll have a chance at winning later

      • ThatRaggedyMan

        In the case you’ve brought up, would it still make for a more interesting grand final to have the player with the better chance step up for the round?

        So this is an extreme case, but if two players, X and Y, are going to pot split, and they know their opponent uses a character that is 10-0 against X’s character wouldn’t you prefer to see Grand Finals with Y playing rather than X?

        KOF at EVO was pretty damn hype, but the Grand Finals compared to UMvC3 weren’t as exciting because Reynald went straight ham. It was still and excellent showing, but if Hee San Woo had put up more of a fight, things would have definitely been even more entertaining.

        • juggernaut1981

          I get where you’re comming from but people generally only pot split with someone they have a chance to loosing to if it’s not out of pitty. No one typlcally pot spits with someone they can rape for free unless it’s charity.

  • Suspinded

    Good show. Split the pot if you feel like it. But, dammit, give the people a show at least in the end.

    • xespool

      Competitors don’t owe you anything. If I was a competitor right now I’d be pissed. Hell I’m pissed anyway, they shouldn’t have to dance for you. Complete bs. TO’s host for their profit, monsters don’t care for the work competitors put in and if a competitor put in hard work to get to top 3 and wanted to pot split, why would they want to put any more extra effort into something that would only stress them out anyway? Whole community just shit on the people who compete.

      • TheAverageGuyTAG

        Then don’t compete. The point of having these big-ass public tournaments with huge crowds is for the crowd’s entertainment. Don’t like that? Then you can GIIIIIT out.

        • juggernaut1981

          Short and sweat;
          The crowds at the events MAKE the pot dumb ass! You can’t just give them & us the finger. Good rule.

        • KubikiriTurkojin

          lol these tourney are NOT for the crowd entertainment. its for the players to win and to face good players. you go to a tourney for yourself, if not, then you aint got no say in the matter whatsoever.

          • Xavier Wilson

            I disagree, the tournament is thrown so that we can see who can play the best, and the success of tournaments comes from people being entertained by the play. Now I do agree that you GO to a tournament for yourself, either as a player or spectator, but the purpose behind the event is entertainment. As a boxer I get in the ring because I LOVE to fight, but I also understand that the event thrown by the promoters and sponsors is meant to entertain the crowd, so I will fight my heart out and try my best not to be a bitch, not only because I’m not one, but also because no one will want to see me fight.

          • liam maps

            LOL@ TO’s hosting for their profit. You really are a clueless fuck aren’t you?

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            “you go to a tourney for yourself”

            That is correct. However, by entering a publicly viewed event, you’re now obliged to give the crowds good matches.

          • toooitchy

            How do you figure? These tournaments wouldn’t even exist if not for the growing community of players that also spectate. You really need to take a step back and look at the magnitude of evo, and local tournaments like WNF if you think they aren’t for entertainment.

        • Tristen

          Hello, you disgustingly stereotypical fool. Think about the nonsense
          you’re trying to back, or do you even have that ability? Think about the
          beginning of the gaming industry.. When it first brought in mass
          viewers. Viewers watched, not because gamers were good actors but
          because they enjoyed the game. Entertainment is definitely part of the
          gaming industry, in fact it’s all entertainment. None of the
          entertainment, however, has anything to do with “pleasing the
          population”. The beauty of being a spectator and being completely
          uninvolved with anything is the choice to watch or not to watch based on
          whether or not you like what you see. Imagine yourself in a gamer’s
          position. You’re at the grand finals and pot splitting is no longer
          allowed. Are you now concerned about the viewers and how you win, or do
          you just want to win by whatever means? Anyone in their right mind
          chooses option 2. Unless you’d go so far to defend your nonsensical
          point that you would lie and say option 1. This goes for you and all the
          other retards defending your point.

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            Guess what: By choosing option 2, you’re also fufilling option 1 as well because you’re playing to the best of your ability instead of just goofing around.

            mind=blown

          • xespool

            The point stands they’re not giving much thought, if any to the spectators when they play. The entertainment value is not the most important thing in this scenario to the competitor – and you’re preaching about how competitors are obliged to entertain (for some stupid fucking reason). Only reason the rule was put in place was to stop finals being less hype than what they MIGHT be – people playing to the best of their ability can be the opposite of entertaining too (Guile mirror GF’s so entertaining). Point is your view on entertainment is invalid and unfounded. Stop polluting this community with your lack of comprehension.

            SuperVinlin

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            About an hour or so, like I said. You don’t have to give thought to the spectators if you’re playing to the best of your ability. And yes, it’s true that there can be instances where the match winds up being less hype due to the way they play out at their peak (like the EVO 2013 finals for Injustice). But then there are instances where the match winds up being fucking awesome (EVO 2013 finals for KOF, Melee, SF4, etc.) The point is that you don’t completely gimp the fun for everyone watching because you decided to split the pot and dick around. That’s what this rule is for.

          • xespool

            I wasn’t dignifying your other mess of retard with a response. And that has nothing to do with your response to the above post. So address that first. Talk about how founded your view on competitors having to entertain is. I’ll be back when hell freezes over to read your reply.

            Kappa

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            Simple: Let’s take EVO, which has sponsors. With sponsors involved, you need to amass people to watch so that the sponsors will continue to sponsor. In order to amass people, you need entertainment from the tournament. Hence, the obligation to entertain. No entertaining, no spectators, no sponsors, no EVO.

          • xespool

            Not founded, not even logical. Players don’t have an obligation to do anything. They do what they want, if coincidentally they entertain – they’re not doing it on purpose. As I said, I’ll be back to read how your POV is founded when hell freezes over. Have fun.

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            “Players don’t have an obligation to do anything.”

            I get the feeling you don’t understand the point of having rules.

          • xespool

            I get the feeling you don’t understand players can do what they want while breaking rules. Seriously what level of stupid are you? Stop deferring from providing an explanation as to how your POV is founded.

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            If they’re breaking rules, then it doesn’t really matter, now does it? Also, what are you even asking me to explain? How my POV of “no entertainment = no spectators = no sponsors = no EVO” is founded? That’s, like, common sense, bro (unless you’re referring to something else, in which case could you kindly tell me what you’re referring to?)

          • xespool

            Nice response.. Deferring from what you’re supposed to be defending again? It matters against what point I’m making dumbass. But I guess you don’t understand my point. Here it is again for you: They’re not obliged to do anything – You argue against this yet you just said it doesn’t really matter (wut?). Point is they can do whatever they want, and aren’t obliged to entertain you. If you can’t deny this with founded explanation of why they are obliged, we’re done here. As I said, I’ll be waiting till hell freezes over for a founded response.

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            What I’ve been saying has been under the assumption that they’re entering the tournament with the intent of not breaking rules. If you’re trying to say that “they don’t have to follow the rules if they don’t want to”…then no, they don’t have to, but then don’t expect them to be allowed to enter the tournament again.

          • xespool

            What you’ve been saying is competitors owe people entertainment. Idiot. That statement there is wrong – and you haven’t defended it with any founded reasoning. Why can’t you comprehend what my point is when I’ve stated several times? LOL

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            “Why can’t you comprehend what my point is when I’ve stated several times?”

            …because now you’re throwing rule-breaking into the mix? Alright, let’s make this clear before we continue this any further: Are you trying to tell me that “competitors don’t owe people entertainment; if they want to break the rules and dick around, they’re free to do so” or are you trying to tell me “competitors don’t owe people entertainment; they play so they can win and not care who’s satisfied as long as they working to win?” Because I have two very different responses depending on which one you’re trying to say.

          • xespool

            There is no founded reasoning for your statement “That is correct. However, by entering a publicly viewed event, you’re now obliged to give the crowds good matches.”

            There is zero obligation for players to entertain, purposefully or indirectly. What you said is wrong. No matter what you say, you cannot give a founded logical, ethical response that would make this correct. And you can’t accept that, so you lie to yourself and perpetuate retard.

            You can’t defend your point, I know that. At this stage I’m just entertaining myself by milking more asshat out of you.

            Kappa

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            Well, consider this: Without people to watch, would there even be an EVO?

            (also, interestingly enough, I’m getting a lot of entertainment out of you running your mouth myself)

          • Jaime Morin

            When I think of EVO, I think of it in two separate periods:
            Evo before Yaris, and Evo after Yaris.

            In 2006, Toyota Sponsored the Evolution tournament. This was the first time EVO had a Sponsorship of its kind, and from this point on the Evolution tournament became very commercialized and has become how we know it today.

            Before 2006, there were no such thing as prize pot bonuses and winnings were directly proportionate to the number of entrants. Despite that fact, Evolution still had a strong showing, and EVERY person that went, played. Even though it wasn’t streamed, and people didn’t go for the sole purpose of socializing, it was still a very big and very strong tournament. In fact you can still find a lot of players who actually PREFER Evo being that way.

            The point I’m trying to make is that EVO did just fine without streams and spectators, so yes, as crazy as it seems to you, there would still be an EVO. Before EVO was EVO and known as the Battle by the Bay series, it was started and ran by people who loved the game. There will always be these people to keep the scene alive, despite it’s commercial success/failure.

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            Was it that EVO before 2006 wasn’t streamed, or was it that EVO before 2006 had no audience, live or otherwise, period?

          • toooitchy

            I think when people say “no EVO” they mean Evo wouldn’t be the single biggest FGC event of the year, bringing together other tournaments to become evo championship series events, which caused each of them to grow exponentially. People who prefer Evo the way it was before the scene blew up, aren’t looking at the big picture. It’s not just Evo, it’s all that Evo’s popularity has affected/all that has been a part of making Evo popular.

            Regardless of anyones personal preference, the point is that tournaments bring stream viewers, those viewers bring paying sponsors, and those sponsors have an effect on the prize money. Sponsors are not happy with collusion because it causes viewer #’s to drop significantly, and it generally happens during the final matches of the event, which is when viewers are at the highest. Competitors may not think they owe anything to viewers, and in a way, they don’t directly, but they do owe the sponsors, whether they like the sponsors there or not, because those sponsors have money invested that you have a chance to win. Those sponsors are counting on viewer counts being as high as possible, and like it or not, if you stand to win money from that sponsor, you have an obligation to not do things that piss the sponsors off, this is part of entering a large scale tournament, so people need to deal with it.

          • ThatRaggedyMan

            Okay fine, you can say competitors don’t owe the spectators anything, but it’s the same as saying sports players don’t owe their audience anything, or that other entertainers don’t owe their fans anything. When you get down to it, what do most competitors want? They want money. How do you get that money? Make a market. The market comes from the spectators. Players can go ahead and do whatever they want sure, but then the scene will never grow. Major tournaments are what they are now because of the growing community and audience otherwise there would be no point in making such a huge spectacle.

          • toooitchy

            How can you be so blatantly wrong in every conceivable way, and be so cocky in your assumption that you actually are “right”?

          • toooitchy

            It’s amazing how big of an asshole you are.

          • toooitchy

            Your lack of comprehension of the direct correlation between viewer #’s, sponsors and prize money is astounding….

            You don’t think the competitors owe viewers anything? Then I guess the sponsors have no right to complain about massive viewer count drops when a match is being BS’d through by colluding players, which means they can take their money elsewhere, which means smaller pots all around.

            How do you look at a tournament like Evo, and think viewers have absolutely nothing to do with how big it has become?

          • xespool

            And your lack of comprehension to the concept of obligation is hilarious. You’re bringing up way too many points that don’t detract from the essence and semantics of obligation. Please, feel free to waste more of your time by referencing FGC shit that isn’t relevant to this argument.

            Kappa

          • toooitchy

            How is the money being split by players not relevant? That money doesn’t just appear out of nowhere, there are multiple sources apart from just entry fees. If it was 100% entry fees, then it really wouldn’t be much of an issue, but with sponsors and things like that, it becomes bigger than just a fun little tournament, and this is why competitors are obligated to not cheat, and not do anything to hurt the tournament. It’s not just about how fun the players are having, that’s what casuals are for. Don’t like it? Don’t enter, it’s really not that complicated of an issue, I don’t know why you can’t just accept this.

          • xespool

            “Without the competitors at events – sponsors, TO’s and streamers would have 0 revenue. The income that goes into the pot is generated by the competitors themselves. The companies profiting from events are obviously going to put some of that into more events to get further profit. Yet only a few of the competitors see any of this money…

            I’ll rephrase your question for you –

            Why the hell should you stand to receive a CHANCE at money generated by yourself, if you’re not doing something somebody else wants you to?

            I’ll have to wait for hell to freeze over before I can dignify that retard shit with a response.

            gg, wp.”

            Obviously you didn’t read this… And you obviously don’t comprehend how businesses work. You have no argument, because you don’t understand the situation or the semantics of obligation.

          • xespool
          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            My mind=a mind.

      • Mateo151

        Actually, the competitors owe the spectators EVERYTHING. If collusion happens too much, no one will care to watch. If no one cares to watch, the prize money suffers. Don’t be so dumb to think that players get paid when no one is watching, and no one will watch if sitting through, at times, days of matches to see a final, only for it to be thrown.

        You think the Superbowl wouldn’t suffer if the teams playing benched their stars and started rookies? Get real.

        • KubikiriTurkojin

          yeah because shit like this totally doesnt happen in real life sports with billions riding on it.

          • George Carlos Pastor

            uhhhh… yeah.

          • Mateo151

            The only time this happens in pro sports is when a team with a point advantage in a league/tourney can keep a more highly ranked team/team they dislike from advancing by dumping to the opponent, thus having the opponent end with more points than X team they don’t want to advance. You will never see a final where this happens. Maybe in the 50s before you can go to prison for it.

          • PlayingKarrde
          • KubikiriTurkojin

            this just shows how fucking stupid you are.

          • toooitchy

            Murder also occurs quite often, does that mean an argument can be made that it should be allowed?

          • PlayingKarrde

            It’s not ok then and it’s not ok now. Just because it happens doesn’t make it cool.

          • Mateo151

            North American sports, anyways. You can’t control those mob-run countries

          • toooitchy

            It does, and people get in big trouble for it when it’s discovered. The scale might be different, but there are people invested in FGC tournaments all the same.

        • Jaime Morin

          The notion that competitors owe the spectators EVERYTHING is absurd. The spectators need the players and the players need the spectators only to achieve top success, however it’s important to note the following:

          Without players, there’d be no spectators.
          Without spectators, there’d still be players.

          No one plays a game because they want people to watch, they play because it’s fun, thus they’re fundamental existence does not rely on spectators. The same cannot be said for people who merely watch games and do not play or participate in tournaments. If there are no games to watch, they can’t watch.

          Your Superbowl analogy…yeah.

          My personal stance on the original article is this:

          A player who enters a tournament off the street plays for himself, he has no duty to please the crowd and/or tournament directors(within reason and rules of course. I don’t think a player has the right to show up naked and piss drunk for example). A sponsored player who enters has a duty to please his sponsorship. This changes the relationship a player has with the tournament as he is now apart of a TEAM. If a TEAM(Sponsorship) decides that player A has a better chance than player B to win a tournament, and asks player B to take a dive, I do not see a problem with it.

          I think if Major Tournaments are going to FORCE teams into taking their strategic decision making out of a given tournament, it is THEIR duty to try to reduce these confrontations from happening. Maybe by placing sponsored players into different brackets to where they wouldn’t play until top 8? I know it’s not an easy problem to find a solution to, however if tournaments are going to start taking rights away from Sponsored players for no real good reason other than to provide a better match for spectators, they also need to find a way to remedy the players affected.

      • Suspinded

        Competitors owe the viewers a decent match. Viewers are the motivation for sponsors, which offset tournament costs (Fun Fact : Tournaments cost money to run) and increase payout to players (pot bonuses are a thing, imagine that!!)

        You know what pisses sponsors off? Feeling like they didn’t get their money’s worth. Or worse, feeling their money was involved in something that feels blatantly corrupt. The last thing a brand wants is to be associated with a bunch of events where collusion occurs.

        The tournament scene has reached this point where some players care more about the money than the competition. TOs have done the right thing to protect their brand. What good is a tournament if the “real matches” end in the quarters, or before Top 8?

        To throw it out there anyway : If you, as a “competitor”, are mad at this type of change, you aren’t actually a competitor. You’re a money grinder, and we don’t want you.

        • xespool

          No competitors don’t owe anybody anything. And they’ve been around doing what they love, competing for breadcumbs with no streams since before ST. The people who want to watch are having a service provided by a streamer, TO and most importantly – THE COMPETITORS.

          Stream monsters want to see people compete – yes there’s a market for that but TO’s and streamers are exploiting competitors who don’t even care about that shit. The competitors owe you nothing. They aren’t here to dance for you, they’re here to do what they wanna do.

          Without the competitors, the people doing what they love for not just money but for fun too – the scene would be dust. And TO’s are now saying this is all srs bsns – dance for us for we care more for monsters; you competitors do nothing for us and we want to shit on you. Working hard to get top 3 and then not putting on a show for people you don’t care about is worthy of a DQ.

          • xespool

            If anything has changed over the past 20 years it’s been the money involved in the FGC. Back in the day you competed to be the best, and enforcing this rule doesn’t change the situation. Streamers and TO’s came here because there was a market – they’re the ones changing the community – not the people who made it or play the games. There’s nothing wrong with pot splitting, or playing half assed because you’re tired or don’t want to deal with any stress. If three players make it to top 3, why does it matter which one wins when they’ve taken out the rest of the competition? They clearly deserve to be there and do what they want with their positioning and prize money. Players shouldn’t need to care about kids with neckbeards and achne being butthurt over a casual GF’s.

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            FIVE – Like it or not, people want to watch these tournaments. In a competitive setting, people are going to expect competition. If they don’t get it, they’re going to be upset and leave. Forget the money; if people don’t take their shit seriously in the grand finals of a tournament, then what’s the point of having the tournament to begin with? Why not just have casual exhibition? And like I said before, if you can’t deal with the competitive setting, then you clearly don’t belong in the competitive setting. What, you’re top 3? That’s nice. People don’t want to see a Top 3. They want to see a top 1. You either give them the top 1, or don’t even bother trying.

            And I find it hilarious that you’re saying that people are getting butthurt over casual stuff when you’re upset over something that would affect an incredibly competitive setting.

          • toooitchy

            It matters because the money they’re splitting is put in by people who don’t want to see pot splitting or colluding. How the hell is it none of their business what you do, when it’s their money that you’re trying to get?

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            No no no no no no no. There is so much wrong with this post.

            ONE – you’re completely ignoring people who watch the tournaments live. Those who go to EVO and other tournaments themselves to spectate. Especially those who pay a good amount of money to travel to see it. You think THEY’RE going to take the time to go to a tournament just to see the finals end with “lol, let’s just do whatever because we’re splitting the pot.”

            TWO – I have no idea what you’re talking about with the “exploiting competitors” bit. If you enter a major tournament, ESPECIALLY one where people are watching (SUPER ESPECIALLY one where people pay money to see it in person) you’re expected to play to your fullest potential. That’s the point of a tournament. If you have a problem with playing at your fullest potential in a setting where you’re being watched by the general public in a professional tournament scene, then don’t even bother entering tournaments.

            THREE – There are times where you can dick around when playing baseball. The World Series is not one of them. This is no different. No one is saying that you’re not allowed to have fun when playing video games; they’re not even saying that you can’t have fun in a tournament. They’re saying that if you’re going to compete in a setting where the entire point is to determine the best of the best, using “I just wanna have fun” as an excuse to not play seriously and dick around is ridiculously unsportsmanlike, cash or no cash.

          • xespool

            1 – Why as a competitor would that matter? If you don’t like it gtfo, I’m here for me not you.

            2 – Playing the game in general is supposed to be fun, whether that be through competitive ambition or trolling lower level players. At no point does anything require that I ‘Perform to the best of my ability’ – this again is something that only the monsters care about. And if I work through to top 8 I should have the freedom to do whatever the fuck I want. People paying to watch is their own decision, players didn’t ask them to come out there and watch them now did they? Because they’re not there for you, they’re there for themselves.

            3 – This isn’t a team sport. These are individuals who have the freedom to do whatever they want. They shouldn’t be obliged to take any actions to please anybody but themselves. Why do people enter Evo when they’re not going to win? For fun, to get better. And sportsmanship is an opinion – it can be dictated by anybody. I’m not going to deny myself fun because some nobody thinks it’s unsportsmanlike.

            I thinks it’s pretty unfair to deny somebody their personal enjoyment when they’ve earned it, and it’s not adversely affecting their opponent. I’m sure most competitors wouldn’t care for a free bye.

            Biased opinion’s like yours really shouldn’t warrant a response – pretty much a summary of what most stream monsters would say.

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            1) Who cares what the audience thinks of the actor’s performance as long as the actor is having fun, right?

            2) I believe the new rule says otherwise. 😉

            3) Replace “baseball” with “golf” and “World Tour” with “PGA Tour”. Same schtick. Also, you defeated your own statement the moment you said “to get better”. BECAUSE IF YOU’RE PLAYING TO THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY, you don;t have to worry about any of this.

            “I thinks it’s pretty unfair to deny somebody their personal enjoyment”

            So you don’t personally enjoy the game unless you’re not playing to the best of your ability?

          • xespool

            I have a whole lot of wut? for half of what you tried to say…

            1. This isn’t a job you get paid for herp derp.

            2. There’s a new rule about actors? huh…

            3. People enter Evo to play people better than themselves to level up. One of the many reasons people enter. Playing to the best of their shitty ability isn’t going to get them to GF though – so yes, they do need to worry about levelling up if they have a goal which is currently out of their skillset.

            “So you don’t personally enjoy the game unless you’re not playing to the best of your ability?”

            Is your comprehension completely linear? Can you really not infer that my statement was in regards to enjoyment in everything…

            I’m just going to give up because your lack of comprehension is making me feel sorry for you, and this will continue forever if I don’t free us both now. Good day!

            SuperVinlin

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            1) So? The point still stands. Especially in cases where no money is involved (which is funny because money is involved in the case of EVO and other tournaments).
            2) In case you’re not just trolling at this point and are genuinely being stupid, I’m referring to the new rule that prevents collusion, which basically means you gotta play to the best of your ability.
            3) If you’re playing to better yourself to level up, you’re playing to the best of your ability. If you’re playing to the best of your ability, you’ve got nothing to worry about with regards to this rule. Is that so difficult to understand?
            4) If you can enjoy playing to the best of your ability, why not do it, then?

            Sorry, buddy. Saying that I lack comprehension a) doesn’t make it true b) doesn’t detract from the complete pathetic-ness of your “arguments”. Feel free to to give up if you wish. I’ve no issue with you walking away from an argument you were losing.

          • xespool

            Nah, you lost. Not many people here understand logic, and instead go by misguided and hormone induced emotions. All the points you replied to really didn’t need a reply – and the questions you asked are completely off topic from my points. Your lack of comprehension shows through your need to ask so many questions, and the questions you present are so far from my original point it’s comical. Bye for realz this time.

            Kappa

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            I find it humorous that you brought up the idea of understanding logic as if you used any. “Herf derf, I’m in it to have fun! I’m in it to have money! But you can’t force me to to choose between one or the other! I have to be allowed to have both! Especially if it ruins the fun for everyone else!” Also, I’m dyyyyyyyyyyyyyying to know in what way my questions were off topic from your points. Actually, not really, but I’m fine with you continuing an argument that you’re clearly losing just as much as I am with you putting an end to it. Especially since whether you lose (I’d say lose or win, but that’d imply that there’s a chance that you’re winning) still means that the rule now implemented is in effect.

          • Jano Torres

            Remember, crowd monsters, pot monsters and stream monsters pay for your prizes, without them waiting to watch hype stuff, there’s no tourneys, there’s no prizes, there’s nothing.

            Do you think LoL players can’t get punished for playing ARAM on the finals instead of giving 100%?…

            Stay free.

          • BrandeX

            No you lost, and apparently have no concept of reality when it comes to money + events. The other guy was trying to make comparisons to sports like Baseball and golf – actually the direct comparison is Boxing. One vs. One, fill the seats in tournaments, win the prize money, no different. Get caught obviously throwing a match – you’re done there too. You are competing at any pro-level (money involved) sport, if your not pulling crowds to paid to watch, they TO’s won’t want you around, making them/the scene look bad is no different. If you don’t want to “put on the show” and entertain the paying crowd, you don’t schedule prize fight…er go to tourneys. You can sit at home and play online or in the arcade all you want with no “industry” involved.

          • xespool

            For your benefit I’m back to tell you how you lack comprehension and that you need to work on it.

            You said

            1- Who cares what the audience thinks of the actor’s performance as long as the actor is having fun, right?

            An actors job is to entertain an audience. I don’t know what you were trying to achieve by making a cretinous comparison between gamers and actors…. I shouldn’t need to explain the difference, but for your dim-witted benefit here it is – An actor entertains, that is their job. A gamer plays a game for fun, money, competition and a variety of things associated with leisure. It isn’t their responsibility to entertain a crowd, because that’s not a job that’s given to them. If it was, hype would be staged for every game. I don’t know how anybody could be stupid enough to make this comparison, but I hope I cleared that up in that fathomless brain of yours.

            ^This – FAIL COMPARISON

            2- The rule is in place because of monsters. The TO’s and Streamers care about that because that’s where they get their revenue from. They care more for their business than the welfare of their competitors. The same top 3 would have been the same if it was played out normally. And I GUARANTEE you, if they didn’t play alt teams – the pot split wouldn’t have sparked anything. The only thing that mattered, was the anti-hype finals the monsters saw.

            ^This – EASY TO COMPREHEND (Not, oh herp derp the actors aren’t acting, we might lose money herp derp)

            3- I didn’t defeat any purpose when I said people enter Evo to level up. My point was people compete with 0% chance of winning. People travel to events with no hope of payout, but they go for their own leisure…. For fun, for a lot of different reasons. What I referenced was an example.

            You said – “They’re saying that if you’re going to compete in a setting where the entire point is to determine the best of the best, using “I just wanna have fun” as an excuse to not play seriously and dick around is ridiculously unsportsmanlike, cash or no cash.”

            I said ‘They shouldn’t be obliged to take any actions to please anybody but themselves’ and the people who enter Evo for fun aren’t being unsportsmanlike, nor are the people trying to level up – even if they’re just getting bodied and wasting peoples time.

            My argument was to your stupid statement, not making a point that they weren’t playing to the best of their ability – but to the point of anybody can enter for whatever intentions.

            ^This – DYEC?

            And to the rest of whatever ass vomit you spewed – it doesn’t justify a response. You’re an idiot. You completely misunderstood everything I said, and responded with nonsensical questions because you’re so lacking in comprehension. Goodnight, I hope you learn something from this.

            SuperVinlin

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            1) Sorry, but if the tournament is being shown to the masses, you’re now just as obliged to entertain as an actor. You’re also obliged to entertain if the tournament organizers make rules to make sure such a thing happens. You can say “no” all you like, but there is no rule against continuously spouting out stuff that’s wrong, so I can’t stop you from doing that. Try again.
            2) Doesn’t matter why the rule is in place; what matters is that it’s in place and as long as it’s in place, your point is moot. 😉 Try again.
            3) Except that if you’re in a position to win money, everything you said no longer applies. Given that this rule only applies when people are in a position to win money…yeah, try again.

            You can call me an idiot all you like; I don’t mind being lied to about that. As long as you walk away without winning, I’m cool. I’m also cool with you continuing the argument that you can’t win. ‘Tis your decision what you wish to do.

          • xespool

            Dude… Come back and look at what you just said in 3 years. None of your points are relevant to what I said. They aren’t even counter arguments. They’re just random statements that defer from what I said.

            1- “you’re now just as obliged to entertain as an actor”

            Yeah just like when NASA showed me around a space shuttle it was all of a sudden my responsibility to be an astronaut… Without pay… LOL

            2- “What matters is that it’s in place and as long as it’s in place, your point is moot”…? Ummm no it isn’t. My point is completely valid as a response and there’s no argument to that. Why argue something that’s fact? How stupid are you? lmao

            3- “Given that this only applies when people are in a position to win money” – So what’s your argument to my statement? I wasn’t talking about that… LOOOOOOOOOOL

            This isn’t an argument any more bro. This is me educating you on what’s going on.

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            1) How is that even close to the same thing?
            2) Except that the now-established rule shuts down what you have to say regarding that. 😉
            3) The rule is for people who are in a position to be winning money. If you have people who compete for fun and know they have 0% chance of winning, then there’s no pot for them to split. Get the idea? Unless you’re trying to argue that everyone that enters the tournament is doing so with the idea/mindset that they have no chance of winning, which is a WEEEEEEEEEEE bit naive.

            Last I checked, those are losing the argue arguments shouldn’t be educating those who are winning the arguments. So you can stop now.

          • xespool

            1 – It’s just as ridiculous as your point you made. Competitors aren’t obliged to act… It’s not their job to entertain you because you’re watching them. You need to have severe mental issues to not understand how your comparison was out of place…. And you’re even stupid enough to try and defend the full blown retard shit that you said. Wut?

            2 – It doesn’t shut down what I said. I just made a point about it, yet you felt the need to try and counter argue something that doesn’t need to be argued. LOL. You said it doesn’t matter why the rule is in place – it doesn’t need to. Why did you even need to reply to my initial post to point that out? That’s like me replying with –

            2- Except it’s Thursday today, and it’ll be Friday tomorrow. This has no relevance and I might as well not post this, but I’ll address it anyway cause herp derp.

            LMAO. Are you Mexican by any chance…? You’re so stubborn you’re making yourself look stupid – what I’ve posted doesn’t warrant an argument… But you’re trying anyway.

            3 – Again, you’re talking about something I wasn’t even addressing. What’s wrong with you? Stop trying to counter argue statements with random statements of your own.

            Seriously you’re all kinds of retarded. You couldn’t understand any of my points. Complete lack of reading comprehension combined with a tryhard attempt at arguing things. And you think you’re winning… There is no ‘winning’ here. LOL. Stop embarrassing yourself.

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            1) No, competitors aren’t obliged to act. They are, however, obliged to entertain via competing.
            2) Your point was “we’re not obliged to play to the best of our ability”. The tournament organizers say that is not the case; the implementation of this rule shows such.
            3) Then kindly do tell me what you ARE addressing because the point that I’m making is something that the newly implemented rule.

            I see you’re using the “You can’t stop me from spouting wrong-ness” point I made earlier to your heart’s content”. I’m glad to see that; nothin’ like showing off your right to do so. Then again, you keep saying “I’M DONE WITH YOU FOR GOOD” and then come back anyways, so maybe it’s just your natural instinct to do so. So yeah, you can either continue this argument that you’re losing so badly or you can quit and leave. Or you can say that you quit and leave and then come back anyways, as you’ve been doing. Any of those options is fine by me..

          • xespool

            You’re literally stupid to the point of thinking you’re intelligent. You haven’t comprehended anything – or directly addressed anything I said. This isn’t an argument. This is you being retarded, and me sincerely trying to help you understand exactly what is going on. However, you seem to be a lost cause – with only the ability to type corresponding numbers with random statements beside them as a response. Truthfully there is no hope for you, because you accept nothing but your misguided opinions and sense of intelligence.

            I will not further dignify any response other than enlightenment. You have failed me, your family, mankind and your best interests. You abandoned evolution, you killed us all. Goodbye, my dear incompetent friend.

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            Based on the last several times you said this, I assume “goodbye” means “I’ll be back in an hour or so”. Also, I’ve no problem with you not being able to comprehend neither my arguments nor yours. Like I said, I can’t do anything to stop you from acting like you know what you’re talking about when you don’t. Not that I would if I could since, as I said before, nothing either of us says matters due to the newly implemented rule making sure that collusion can’t happen without the guilty people losing their prize money.

          • toooitchy

            personal enjoyment doesn’t matter when you stand to win money from a company that only put that money there because of the revenue that is generated by viewer #’s, and viewer #’s are directly influenced by collusion. You wanna collude? Alright, then agree to not receive the prize money. I mean, you’re in it for yourself right? Well why the hell should you stand to receive other peoples money, if you’re doing something they don’t want you to do?

            Give me a logical answer to this, while I wait for hell to freeze over, you goddamn asshole.

          • xespool

            Without the competitors at events – sponsors, TO’s and streamers would have 0 revenue. The income that goes into the pot is generated by the competitors themselves. The companies profiting from events are obviously going to put some of that into more events to get further profit. Yet only a few of the competitors see any of this money…

            I’ll rephrase your question for you –

            Why the hell should you stand to receive a CHANCE at money generated by yourself, if you’re not doing something somebody else wants you to?

            I’ll have to wait for hell to freeze over before I can dignify that retard shit with a response.

            gg, wp.

          • KubikiriTurkojin

            if these fuck ups your talking about dont want to see pot splitting, get better and try to win it for yourselves faggots.

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            Don’t have to; if collusion is involved, they now lose their prize money. :3

          • doublejuice

            Competitors owe the other competitors, and if you don’t understand that then you are a self centered jack-ass.

          • José Ramón Pepino Ojeda

            “competing for breadcumbs”

            Feels insulting

          • Zombieoni

            Yeah and they can act like asses lose all sponsorship interest and go back to… how did you say, “competing for breadcumbs”.

          • toooitchy

            Without the competitors? You mean the players? Without them the scene would be dust? Ok…..then you’re saying that viewers don’t also play, and that for every top player that were to leave, there isn’t another player to take there place……

            Stop acting like this is college sports and the NCAA is exploiting the players, the competitors are competing to compete, right? Well what drives competition? Money, and more competition, which is brought by more money. Are you under the impression that Evo, and every other major would be the same, if not for sponsors, and the stream monsters? If it’s not for the money, why the hell would every single top player go to Vegas for Evo? I mean, it’s the competition, right? Well all that competition wouldn’t be at Evo, if not for the money. Like it or not, sponsors and stream viewers are directly responsible for a portion of the prize money, and because of that the people who stand to get that money, owe those responsible for the money being there, a good show, so that the money they spent isn’t being wasted because of dumbass shit the competitors are doing.

            We get what you’re saying, you’re just an idiot, so stop acting like you’re so much better than everyone else, because you’re not, you’re just an asshole, like the rest of the world.

          • xespool

            You don’t get what I’m saying, or even understand reality. I’m not an asshole – I take people’s points in to consideration. Just so happens their points are usually wrong by logical and moral standards. You need to stop arguing with what I’ve said. Because I am better than you – Physically, mentally and morally. I guarantee.

            Kappa

        • xespool

          Also how is working to a pot split at top 3 and playing for their personal FUN, caring about the money? If they were that hungry they wouldn’t be splitting in the first place.

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            FOUR – Getting money means that they don’t have to put any effort in their match and do whatever the shit they want in the big deciding match of the tournament, which is a complete middle finger to the spirit of tournaments. The rule isn’t meant to stop fun; it’s meant to make sure that the matches are kept exciting. I’m fairly sure it shouldn’t be that hard to keep the matches both FUN AND EXCITING, now would it?

          • xespool

            4 – Spirit of tournaments? Yeah because I care for your opinion as a competitor, don’t I? And exciting for who? Those people I don’t know and don’t care about? Also ChrisG looks like he’s having fun when he loses a GF right?

            Kappa

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            If you don’t care about the spirit of a tournament, then why do you care about the tournament?

          • xespool

            To have fun. Whether that be destroying everybody there, trolling kids worse than me or pot splitting and putting on the worst grand finals in history for lols.

            Kappa

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            So in other words, your words mean nothing. Works for me.

          • Durant27

            TLDR: I agree xespool that competitors dont owe the spectators anything. They really do not. They don’t even owe it to themselves to play at their best. In truth, they owe it to all the other competitors in the world. Because of that, I agree with the standardization. Sure, you made it to the Grand Finals on total skill, but you do not deserve to be called champion if you cant win Grand Finals with the same skill that got you there. It should be null and void and given to the next available player. If you truly are that skillful, it wont matter and you will beat him for that title anyway (when you decide to be a mature player). Its really reasons like that (collusion) that caused the FGC to never be able to rise above where it was. Good move tournament hosts.

          • xespool

            What do I owe competitors? They’re there cause they want to be. I don’t owe anybody anything. I’m here for me, and everyone else is there for themselves. And who cares about a champion of da beech title when I got $$$.

            TriHard

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            At least no one will ever have to worry about you pulling that shit. Because if you ever get far enough to be in that position, either you won’t pull that shit, or you’ll only get to pull it once because you’ll be banned afterwards. More specifically, you’ll be banned and you’ll lose your prize money. 😉

          • geobraun

            If you’re in it for money… you’re in the wrooong place

          • Durant27

            Fair enough, you got the money. Enjoy it while it lasts. Have fun playing in tournaments that do not have the collusion effect in place because I am quite sure all the majors will now carry it. Oh and if you dont like it, then dont play. Simple process.

          • xespool

            If you don’t like watching staged finals, don’t watch them.

            Kappa

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            Doesn’t matter if we like them or not; the rules forbid them. ;3

          • Durant27

            Well with this story, obviously I will no longer have to. 🙂

            Kappa

          • Wulfsten

            Well, this is the rule now, and it’s supported by the majority of the FGC, so if you want to play in a tournament, them’s the breaks.

            So despite your heroic self-righteousness “I ain’t here for you” attitude, it looks like you’ve lost the fight to cheat at tournaments, and you’re not welcome.

            If you don’t want to compete every step of the way, then stay the hell out of the tournaments I attend and watch.

            Jesus.

          • xespool

            I hope somebody gets to EVO GF next year, and as a self-righteous “I’m here for me, fuck ya’lls hype and entertainment” act, takes a poop on the EVO mainstage. The butthurt the community would unleash would be hilarious.

            Kappa

          • supersonicspear64

            because they are putting emphasis on the money by agreeing to pot split because it’s low-risk, and guarantees them an even share of money.

        • KubikiriTurkojin

          your a fucking retard.

      • Competitors owe viewers EVERYTHING. If they go to a tournament that is sponsored by someone who wants their brand to be associated with fantastic tournaments, they owe it to the sponsors and viewers to try their hardest to make both of them feel as though they got their money’s worth. If you want to go to a tournament so you can throw your matches, that’s cool. But it won’t be a tournament sponsored by MadCatz, SRK, or EventHubs. And I’m sure many MANY more sponsors will refuse to give money to tournaments that don’t enforce this rule. The people who compete are now competing for money, NOT for fun. I know, because I’ve talked with Abe (Neo) and he pretty much confirmed all the top players who play Marvel 3 only play if for the money. So if they want their money, they follow the sponsor rules.

      • Mash Harder

        “TO’s host for their profit, not for competitors”:

        – If nobody’s holding tournaments, you have nowhere to compete. Why don’t you host your own major with your friends? have fun with that.

        “Monsters don’t care for the work competitors put in”:

        – Viewers bring brand awareness for the sponsors, ad revenue, and grow the product. Viewers want to watch a competitive match, not a joke. Viewers don’t need to care about you. TO’s care about “viewers”, so you need to care too.

        “Why should they put effort into something that would stress them out”:

        – Because they are being paid.

        • xespool

          None of this means the competitors owe anybody anything. They’re providing just as much as anybody else. Without them the community wouldn’t exist. Without TO’s, monsters and streamers the community would still exist. You’re not addressing my point, stop wasting your time.

          • BrandeX

            Go back to playing at home on your couch, or the local arcade (if you have one) like we did in the 90’s then. /shrug

          • Mash Harder

            No, I think you missed my point. Nobody cares what you do in your basement or your friend’s garage.

            Unless you want to start hosting tournaments yourself, you gotta play by other people’s rules.

            It’s not much to ask, just don’t be a clown in GF.

          • xespool

            Nice counter argument. I like the part where there isn’t one.

            Kappa

          • Mash Harder

            If I didn’t address any particular point in your OP, it’s because it’s completely irrelevant.

            ..
            Kappa

      • José Ramón Pepino Ojeda

        Sorry to barge in, but if you are a competitor you play to win the game, the money should come the latter. When you start dealing with this rule of thumb you become a dealer and not a player.

      • Zombieoni

        They owe sponsors. The Sponsors like to see viewers so they can sell whatever they came to sell. There’s no altruism here. Nothing in this world is free, unless your FChamp then money can’t get thrown at you fast enough by suckers, right dawg!? If viewers are pissed the sponsors look bad and they don’t sell us whatever it is they’re trying to sell.

        Believe it or not the competitors are entertainers to a certain degree, and happy people who feel entertained or swept up in the hype are far more likely to buy an arcade stick or a t-shirt to show their love for this thing.

      • FMJaguar

        A player ‘making top 3’ is an assumption, while correct virtually all of the time, there are common instances where the tournament results would not match the outcome of the matches.

        For example: If a player wins the grand finals, then assaults their opponent, many tournaments would still DQ the player and not award a placing despite the incident occuring during the last match.

      • Saba89

        But they do owe something to the organizers. So even though they don’t owe the viewers anything, they should still try not to piss them off because that directly hurts the event organizers.

        • xespool

          What do they owe TO’s? Would a TO be able to host without any competitors? No. Everybody involved is doing something that they put themselves there to do, because they wanted to. Nobody owes anybody shit. I don’t understand why people don’t understand such a basic concept. It was all fine with me, until TO’s wanted to control players who’ve earned the right to do what they want with their winnings – and put rules in place because their own revenue might be slightly less than it could be. Scumbag move. This community would be nothing without the good competitors – which is by far the minority… Yet everybody wants to fuck them over for their own personal gain.

          • Saba89

            First of all, they owe them respect if nothing else (this goes both ways BTW). That’s already reason enough to not shit on their event’s reputation.

            Second, in what way are the players gonna get fucked over?
            Nobody will tell them what to do with the cash after they win it (would that even be possible? lol).

            The only thing that’s gonna be different is that they’re gonna have to play for real in the finals. Is it really that hard?

      • Gimpt

        Even disregarding the debate on whether competitors owe spectators anything, the point of entering the tournaments in the first place is to compete to see how far you can go and be the best you can be. Collusion goes against the very reasons why people enter tournaments, and if you’re going to make it so far just to throw because you don’t care about winning, you don’t deserve the spot.

        • xespool

          You’re misguidedly presuming everybody enters competitions for ONE purpose. And if 3 people beat the rest of the competition and decide to split the money, how does that detract from them deserving a position – and how does that affect the already eliminated competition? They deserve their position because they worked for it, they should have the freedom to do what they want with want they earned.

      • toooitchy

        Except they do, because the the spectators are the entire reason tournaments are as big as they are, and are only getting bigger, meaning bigger pots, so yes, the competitors owe viewers a good show, they want the money? Then fucking dance for it.

        • xespool

          Except they don’t. Players are the reason the tournaments are as big as they are. They attracted the streamers and sponsors, they attracted the viewers. Your lack of understanding for this process tells me you’re either retarded, or joined the FGC 12 hours ago.

          • toooitchy

            No, it’s not just the players, it’s the games themselves, if it was just the players then MVC2 wouldn’t have gone 10 years without much growth, it took new fighting games to bring new players, which means new viewers, which meant sponsors suddenly became interested. There isn’t just one single thing that grew the community, it was a combination of things, and just because the players are one of the biggest factors doesn’t change the fact that allowing collusion is hurting the entire community. It’s a joke that there are people like you who actually think it’s ok.

  • Logan Via

    Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes. Thank you.

  • AdventSoul

    I’m not super concerned with pot splitting, but at least pick your shit and make it look believable.

    • That Guy

      Can two people plan to split the pot and still make it “believable”? I’m not sure it’s possible. Tourneys are intense, highly competitive events where people pop off over major victory and look salty as fuck when they get eliminated. How can you fake the determination when both players KNOW the outcome doesn’t matter?

      • Andy Garron

        Have you ever been in the finals of a tournament or split the pot? Nobody gets that good at fighting games (or anything, really) without being competitive and passionate about it. It’s pretty easy to play a legitimate set without money on the line.

      • Tekknight

        “Pick your ish”. Anyone can have nerves or mess up, But it’s really obvious if you pick a random character. Let’s say you play your roommate. And you KNOW they are gonna help you out no matter what. Does that automatically mean your gameplay will suffer? If so can you help that? I think that in most cases, even if you split the winnings later, you can still give it your all in a fight.

        • bartonzok

          Sure people can fight their best even though they split the earnings, but then it wouldn’t have that competitive atmosphere. Regardless if they do the whole “may the best man win” thing there will be no real value in winning besides bragging rights, and not everyone cares as much about that as FChamp. I’m not saying that tournaments should get rid of exhibitions.Its just that if pot splitting isn’t tackled and becomes the norm, Semis and the first half of the Finals will be the only real intense battles.

          • Tekknight

            The only thing is, you’d literally have to punish players for doing whatever they want with their winnings. Meaning you are literally telling players what they can and can’t do with their money. Another reason a physical prize on top of money might be a great idea. As Robin Palm or Civil War says “can’t split a sword.”

      • Louis Lam

        I don’t care how much they care as long as they put on a good show.

        Casuals and low risk money matches can be impressive too.

      • VXShinobi

        Easily. If you’re splitting the pot you’re assured to get a decent amount of money. If anything, that means players have absolutely no reason to not go all-out competitive and make something look legit. After all, you’re assured a payout and if you actually give a damn about the people who work to put together or come out to view a tournament you’ll give them the show they wanted.

        This rule doesn’t say ‘don’t play crazy teams’. It doesn’t say ‘Don’t break out some crazy Hsien-Ko Shuma tech in the finals’. It doesn’t say ‘Don’t have fun’. What it does say is ‘Don’t piss all over the work of TOs, staff, sponsors, commentators and viewers by clearly not giving a shit. At least make it look good’.

      • The Rob

        Just because 2 people are splitting the pot doesn’t always mean that they no longer care. There’s plenty of players out there who will play to the best of their abilities because they want to win, not because there’s money on the line. The problem only occurs when egos get too big.

      • KubikiriTurkojin

        jus jump in on them, not all the time ofcourse. mash dp’s, not all the time ofcourse and have your splitter know about it before hand so he knows when to mess up his links.

    • Rahavic

      I’ve said the same thing during all of this. I couldn’t give 2 shits what money or what amount of it is split. Just play a legit match when you get on stream, and have a little pride in playing your best. I feel that’s lost these days regardless of how much fun and enjoyment you really are supposed to be getting out of “just playing video games”.

  • Edgar Vera

    awesome stuff and good to know that the FGC is stepping up as JAPONAWA we will agree to this rules for the good of our community 😀

  • comeatme

    sounds exploitable. so srk is now the governing body people have clamored for? or is markman

    • John Gallagher

      Mark has been part of the community longer than a lot of people realize. He used to run SDTekken well before being involved in MCZ. He’s had ties to TOs for years. But when people start to realize that sponsors are looking to pull support when shit like this happens, maybe then they’ll pick their shit and play it out.

    • supersonicspear64

      How is having a defined ruleset that tournaments SHOULD follow to maintain integrity “exploitable”? What could you possibly exploit from that?

      Do you not agree that tournaments should have anti-collusion rules in place?

      • John Doe

        In extreme cases, it’s easily exploitable – Take this scenario:

        Player 1 picks up a pocket character, let’s say, Hakan
        He wants to keep this picking up a character a secret
        He meets up with Player 2 in top 8 (bonus points if player is from the same team)
        He feels like Hakan has a better matchup against Boxer, so he picks Hakan
        But wait! He picked a low tier char he has never played on record, cause he wanted to keep that a secret! Call the TO, collusion!

        Hopefully this won’t happen, but.. it IS exploitable.

        • Shel

          its not a problem because Player 2 is still playing his main or pocket. Now if Player 1 AND player 2 is playing characters that we’ve never seen them play before. there’s something afoot.

        • Gordon

          And in the case that he ends up winning with Hakan? Why would they call collusion before the match happens, when it becomes pretty clear (to people who actually watch this thing) if someone is throwing a match?

        • supersonicspear64

          Picking a character as a counter-pick is not the same as sandbagging and having both characters play an entirely different team that they’re known for. It may be hard to detect in some cases especially like the one you mentioned before, but there’s no downsides to having a rule like that in place, exploitable or not.

          • John Doe

            I’m not saying the rule is bad, I was just answering your question, that yes, in extreme cases, if people want to be huge dicks, it can be exploited. Will it happen? Probably not. Is it possible? Yes.

        • Thomas

          To be fair, you would still be able to see if he played to his – somewhat – fullest with Hakan, and actually knows what he’s doing.

  • Expiriment_Kow

    Split the pot, you’ve gotten that far and you’re allowed to do what you want with that money, but at least fucking play it out for real.

  • One Frame Link has donated (way) over $10K in pot bonuses to ECT over the last few years, and is looking to do more in the 2013-2014 season with other tournaments.

    That said, we were dismayed and agreed with Mark when we saw the VxG grand finals for Marvel and believe in playing it out (as pot splits are impossible to police, but collusion and match throwing can be).

    To that end, we will not support tournaments that do not police collusion either (and posted as much yesterday):

    https://www.facebook.com/OneFrameLink/posts/648067888538097

    • Mabans

      thank you!

  • Edgar Vera

    as the organizer of JAPONAWA we support this new rule for the better of the FGC in mexico 😀 :D.

    And this is some awesome stuff by the way n.n

  • J.D SRK

    Thank you for this. That match between Chris G and Flocker could have an amazing set, yet it came to this. I wonder where is the competitive side of these people.

  • If Infiltration was down 2-0, instead of 2-1, against PR Balrog and swapped to Hakan (down 2-0 remind you in this theoretical example) and lost 3-0, would that warrant DQ? I mean he obviously wasn’t playing to his fullest by picking Hakan then, right?

    • Nullspace

      It’s called counter-picking based off of match-up knowledge, there’s a VAST difference.

      • KubikiriTurkojin

        because people cant manipulate? lol.

    • Andrew John Keeton

      if he lost then he wouldnt need to be DQ’d because he fucking lost

      • DQ’d meaning yellow carded and/or potentially red carded, poor choice of phrase but it wasn’t such a far logical jump that an intelligent poster wouldn’t have gotten it.

      • ProzacStylings

        Incorrect.

        In, say, a grand finals match, losing and then also being DQ’d on account of collusion would result in not receiving the 2nd place prize pool.

      • KubikiriTurkojin

        hey retard/s, what if hes playing his partner in the half finals and loses on purpose so that his partner who has a higher chance of winning goes to the finals so they can potsplit.

        good for them, but they still cheat. only difference now is that they have to make it look like a match.

    • Spabobin

      Hakan is a character that Infiltration plays very well, and is a solid counterpick to Balrog. You are an idiot.

      • The point is the match could have easily went the other way, the momentum shift came down to the last hit of match point in game 4.

        • Shel

          your point is still invalid because I can pull out twenty videos of infiltration playing Hakan at majors. Go pull a video of Chris G playing Phoenix Wright before VxG. Ill wait.

        • Spabobin

          So? If Infiltration had lost, it would be because he got outplayed by PR Rog. Nothing in the Infiltration vs PR Rog match has anything to do with this article because no one in their right mind would think that those two were fixing the match (especially since the winner was only guaranteed 3rd place anyways).

          If Infiltration had made it to grand finals, picked Dan, and did nothing but taunt, then your point might be relevant.

          • Victors write history, people think Infiltration is brilliant because he won, my point is if he lost 3-1 and/or 3-0, with my example, people would think he was reckless and with these new “collusion rules” suspicion could be brought forth. The point being not everything pays off and taking a risk when you’re having a bad day might be enough to get DQ’d, ain’t that some shit.

            I do appreciate your point of it being a 3rd place match which burns a little bit of my example as the obvious, cop-out response would be “assume it’s grand finals or a winner’s bracket match”.

          • xespool

            How many tournaments have people gone to an alt character in finals because they have 6 games minimum to play with? They shouldn’t be penalized for not ‘playing to the best of their ability’. That’s their decision. TO’s shouldn’t have the authority to say – you can’t have fun this is all srs bsns. The only people’s entertainment that’s effected is stream monsters and crowd monsters. Players shouldn’t be controlled because people who aren’t even competing feel the need to be involved with something that isn’t even theirs.

          • xespool

            Don’t have a clue why I posted that in response to your comment. Whatever my point stands. Scumbag TO’s and streamers need to stop looking at players as ways to get money. Players should have the freedom to do what they want. The only thing TO’s lose out on is hype and thus maybe their reputation. They’d be nothing without the competitors. Why not give them good incentive – look at civil war and swords. Everybody wanted that shit, but they can’t split it now can they?

            Competitors don’t owe anybody shit.

          • xanderglz

            “TO’s and streamers need to stop looking at players as ways to get money.”

            ^ THIS

            “Competitors don’t owe anybody shit.”

            ^ DOUBLE THE THIS

          • supersonicspear64

            should sponsors stop looking at players as ways to get money too?

          • KubikiriTurkojin

            imo to’s shouldnt even get paid. the money should only go to the winner/s and the costs for putting up the tourney.

            if youre a fgc player you shouldnt expect to get paid for anything else besides winning. giving commentary etc and organising such events should be because of the love for the genre, not to make money fuckers. if you want to make money, win a fucking major.

          • Crassly

            This comment right here, is fucking retarded. Please continue to share what else should happen in the wonderland of your imagination.

      • Cat Astrophy

        So instead of just playing his main well (which he clearly didn’t) we give him the option to exploit Crapcom’s poor balance by letting him counter-pick and not let PR change his char too? There’s a reason why most fighters now let winner change chars as well after a fight.The previous system was flawed.

        • Spabobin

          Wow. Nice to see that PR Rog’s excellent play has nothing to do with his wins over Infil’s Akuma (keep in mind that Rog sent Infiltration to losers bracket before top 8). You’re seriously complaining about the balance by using Hakan vs. Balrog as an example? Every fighting game is going to have good and bad individual matchups.

          For the Hakan vs Rog match in particular, there’s no way you could make that an even match without serious consequences to the balance with the rest of the cast. For example, making Rog’s dash punch 0 on block would make it harder for Hakan to punish with a command throw, but that would give Rog infinite free pressure against other characters.

          And you do realize that the inability for the winner to switch characters is not a game limitation, but a rule set in place by the tournaments, right? If that rule wasn’t in place, the match would never get past the character select screen. If you win a match and saw that your opponent was going to counterpick you, you could then switch over to counterpick their coutnerpick. They would then go back to their original character, and you would go back to yours. That’s why no well-run tournament would ever let you switch characters immediately after winning a game.

          And PR Rog DID have a chance to switch his character after he lost against Hakan the first time. He chose not to.

        • Marvin Choi

          It is retarded to assume that a game with 39 characters all with different fighting styles should have it so that every character is evenly matched with every other character. Don’t be a scrub.

          • KubikiriTurkojin

            but it is possible to make it almost completely balanced and the makers of the game should at the very least try to get it as right as possible. there should be no match worse than 5-5/4-5 imo.

          • Marvin Choi

            Again, that is impossible in a game with 39 characters with playstyles this diverse. Unless they are all shotos with very similar playstyles, this is never going to be the case. Grapplers are always going to get bodied by zoners. Zoners are always going to get bodied by rushdown. Rushdown is always going to get bodied by grapplers. Even if each of these archetypes have the tools to deal with their weaknesses, the fact that their gameplans play right into the gameplans of others makes it so that counterpicking is always going to be an issue.

          • KubikiriTurkojin

            thats so wrong of you, this is just in general. zoners in general do well against anybody, same for charge characters.

            the waiting game characters in general always do good against everyone. its mostly the grapplers having problems against zoners and chargers, this has been the case since forever.

            rushdown characters do not own zoners or chargers. they usually get killed before they can even find a way in. and even when they get in maintaining that safe pressure is much harder to do.

            also grapplers dont always own rusdown characters, some rush down characters even own grapplers while still gaving a hard time against zoner/chargers.

          • Guest

            Spoken like a true scrub.

            Yeah, zoners are so good that Dhalsim competes with Dan for worst character in AE. And charge characters are so amazing that top 32 at EVO had only two charge characters, Chris King as Vega and PR Balrog.

            Stay free.

          • Guest

            Spoken like a true scrub.

            Yeah, zoners are so good that Dhalsim competes with Dan for worst
            character in AE. And charge characters are so amazing that top 32 at EVO
            had only two charge characters, Chris King as Vega and PR Balrog.

            Stay free.

          • Marvin Choi

            Spoken like a true scrub.

            Yeah, zoners are so good that Dhalsim competes with Dan for worst character in AE. And charge characters are so amazing that top 32 at EVO had only two charge characters, Chris King as Vega and PR Balrog.

            Stay free

      • KubikiriTurkojin

        not if he wants to lose to guarantee his partner a place in the finals if he feels his potsplitting partner has a far better chance against the competitor in the finals.

        your the fucking idiot for not thinking this through, pointing fingers might get them pointed back at cha.

    • Shel

      Infilitration plays hakan. Has main hakan. If he would’ve picked El Fuerte then You can say this.

    • Mabans

      Dumbest thing said. Everyone knows Infiltration picks Haken because he knows it and no one else plays ti. So he uses the person’s inexperience a character against them. Come on, you can be that daft. That’s a dumb thing to say..

      • And ChrisG used to use Wesker too, so clearly he wasn’t doing ANYTHING fishy against FChamp, right?

    • Saba89

      Even if he had lost, it still would have been obvious that he knew what he was doing with the character. So I don’t think any judge or whatever would have been against him in that case.

  • Tekknight

    I was going to say, “How do you determine collusion? How do you know that this isn’t their counterpick team/character?” But it dawns on me. If they played that team/character, or trusted the strength of the team/character, they’d either use them during the tourney or someone would recognize the player as having used them before.

    Games like Marvel and KOF are easier to tell if there’s collusion because of the team makeup. And when BOTH players play their secondary or worse teams/characters it’s easy to tell. This could be a slippery slope, but I bet the Civil War/Evo un-splittable physical prizes might help at Majors.

    • Cat Astrophy

      Get rid of counter-picking (either blind pick or registered chars) and it helps remove that grey area. Giving the loser the chance to play a game of rock, paper, scissors where the winner’s choice is already revealed to them isn’t a game of skill or particularly interesting anyway.

      • Tekknight

        Counter-picking isn’t just about the match up. Sometimes you can do certain things with a character that you can’t with another. And since character moves are set in stone, the allowance to switch characters is a needed allowance.

      • Spabobin

        You act like counterpicking gives the loser of the first game some huge advantage. The fact is, even if the first counterpick works and the set goes to 1-1, the guy who won first will then be able to counterpick the counterpick, and go up 2-1, winning the set (or if it’s best 3/5, the cycle would continue and the person who won first would still win)

        You know what’s worse than rock-paper-scissors? Playing a matchup like T Hawk vs. Blanka or Zangief vs. Sagat. Forcing someone to stick with their horribly outmatched character would just be stupid and not fun to watch at all.

  • So EVO has taken it upon itself to strong arm players into using teams/characters they may not want for the sake of viewers. Further to the point, they’ve strong armed every director into submission through stopping exposure at the choke point.

    If every top player (say… top 50) boycott these events over the next year, crippling tournament drawing power, would the rule set hold up?

    When you look at the history of sports, this is exactly how player unions end up getting started.

    • King9999

      That’s not it at all.

    • J.D SRK

      You’re wrong.
      This rule isn’t preventing players from picking characters they want. The point of this is to prevent collusion and nothing else. In layman’s terms, it’s asking players to take it seriously.

      Think for example about Infiltration picking Hakan on PR Rog.
      That clearly wasn’t collusion because Infiltration was playing seriously.
      VXG UMVC3 finals is a clear example of both finalists simply not taking the set seriously at all.

      I really think that if they don’t want to play they can simply forfeit the match.
      Stop it with the conspiracy theories, you’ve been listening too much OBS.
      Noone is forcing anyone into “submission”

      • AE is a far easier example because anyone can use any character well.

        Marvel is the obvious issue here and I see it like this. Let’s say Flocker used a non Zero team in GF in favour of a team he’s been practicing of late but hasn’t used in open tournament. Is he going to be disqualified for it? Let’s say he used his Zero team and dropped his combos on a bad day. Is that DQ worthy? The rule set is far too open ended and subjective to the TO’s discretion.

        The first time this happens it’s going to cause a shit storm in the scene and lines are going to be drawn. Again, this is why you have Players Associations in organized sports. They’d have to be consulted before a governing body could institute a new set of rules. Otherwise you’d end up with arbitrary rulings with mass effects. This rule set was put in place in less than 48 hours of VxG. That’s an absurdly low amount of time to create a rule of such broad repercussions..

        • King9999

          “AE is a far easier example because anyone can use any character well.”

          I don’t know about that.

          I think you’re overthinking things based on the Flocker example. If he drops a combo, that’s not going to immediately disqualify him. Players drop combos all the time, and nobody accuses them of collusion. Anyone who’s been playing or watching matches for a while can tell when two players are deliberately not playing to the best of their ability.

          The whole point of the rule is to make sure that the players are giving 100%. It’s not a whole lot to ask, and the rule was a long time coming. Collusion has been excused for far too long.

          • It’s poorly written and far too subjective. I’ll give you a further example that literally just came up on Twitter. Justin Wong asked where he’s supposed to be able to work on his new Trish/Doom/Deadpool team. He was using it yesterday on his personal stream, maybe seen by a couple hundred viewers). WNF/TRB are both on the under performing ban list so they’re out for tourney testing. If he wanted to use that team at a major and no one knew he was using it beforehand as opposed to Wolvie/Storm/Akuma what happens?

          • TheAverageGuyTAG

            It should be fairly clear when a player is using a different team/character because they want to test them out and when a player is using a different team/character because they’re just dicking around by that point.

          • JELIFISH19

            People thought Chris G was dicking around the first few weeks that he played MorriDoom

          • RazingPhoenix

            He actually said himself though that it was a troll the first couple of times.

          • King9999

            I suggested above that maybe players would have to register their characters/team when they sign up for a tournament.

            I saw the comments by Justin, but James Chen pointed out that Justin tries when he uses new characters. So I don’t think there would be a problem using a new team at WNF.

            You have to keep in mind that collusion involves at least two people making some kind of an agreement that undermines the spirit of competition. That is the key to figuring out when players are colluding, and the rules have to make that clear.

          • except they don’t make that clear. They just threw up a half assed post without thinking it through. I was a director for 7 years. I see their point, but it’s got holes big enough to drive a truck through. I’d expect something like this from players, not people who are supposed to be the governing body over the community.

          • King9999

            That’s why I said “the rules have to make that clear,” so that there’s no confusion on what collusion is.

            This rule is absolutely needed if the FGC wants to grow up.

          • juggernaut1981

            Yeah the rule is vague, because identifying collusion is vague. You can’t put concrete, all encompassing rules based on, say the Fanatic/ChrisG fight that was thrown at Civil War. It was play that might have gotten them out of pools but you look at it and it makes you want to throw up. And from a player stand point thats hard. To intentionally under perform to the point that its that obvious when all you do is train to be the best.

            IF YOU JUST PLAY A MATCH LIKE IT’S A CASUAL YOU WANT TO WIN THEN NO ONE WILL EVER ACCUSE ANYONE OF COLLUSION, THAT’S THE POINT.

            Instead of intentionally going out of your way to flip off the event, the viewers, and the crown by giving us slop to watch.
            To hell with this whole “no body can tell me what to do” bullsh*t that’s the bases for the argument against the rule. We’re not twelve, you can’t just do whatever the hell you want.

            The crowd makes the pot that they’re splitting
            The viewership & sponsors make the event possible
            And the community wants to be more than the niche’ that it is

            Split pots all you want but you OWE and (now as it should be ) are REQUIRED to give us a good fight.

            Grow the f*ck up.

          • Travis Lynn

            Simply talk to the TO’s and let them know it is your new team before testing it out.

        • Mel Bipson

          “AE is a far easier example because anyone can use any character well.”

          I read that as ‘i know nothing about AE but i’m going to make sweeping assumptions on something for the sake of an arguement’.

          The community is currently outraged about collusion, how do you think they’d react if someone clearly trying their best were disqualified for absolutely no reason?

      • Lee Hunter

        You can’t just ignore the down sides by saying “that’s not what it’s meant to do.” They are still there, and just as huge.

        citing your example of Hakan vs Boxer, most viewers or TOs wouldn’t know that’s a good match up without the commentator telling them 5 times. You’re leaving the result of a match up to opinion, while ignoring the knowledge of the people who most likely to have the right answer (the players)

        People complain about character variety and then say “try something new and be prepared to give up your winnings until someone who barely knows how to play decides if you’re actually trying”.

        innocent players are nearly guaranteed to get occasionally hit by this, or worse yet, they won’t be allowed to play as themselves.

        I hope this at at least be a “innocent until proven guilty” situation, but since the TO’s have financial incentives to use this rule whenever possible, its pretty scary.

    • supersonicspear64

      I don’t think they’ve really strongarmed any of the TOs that have stated that they will follow the ruleset, dude. Sounds like the TOs are plenty pleased to have this rule in place (Jebailey for example)

      Also, collusion in pro sports has been a thing for a long time. That’s why salary caps exist, and there are anti-collusion rules between teams and team owners. I don’t see how anyone can see this change as a bad one.

      If Chris G wasn’t colluding as he said, then why would he have an issue with this?

    • Lipe Trindade

      Another example is the guy that beat Yipes on UMVC at EVO Semi, he was a Pheonix Wright player. Players can pick whatever character as they want, but they can’t just don’t play at the maximum with the characters that they pick. What J.D. SRK said is the example, that final match of UMVC on VXG was a total waste of time, if someone just forfeited the match, it’ll be better for everyone instead of seeing that crap.

  • King9999

    Thank you FGC. This was needed a long time ago.

  • xanderglz

    There’s something I don’t like at all when it comes to paying attention to the money givers. Giving power to the corporations would be risky, and once they’re in, nothing would stop them for ruling over tourneys as they feel like it. Next thing we’ll know will be how they want the tourney’s registration be opened to “top players” only. The “grassroots” thing about the FGC? The actual COMMUNITY part of the fgc? Gone.

    I’m not saying this is bad, but god damn, this is not as easy as just “put two assholes to police matches and everything will be alright”. The fgc seriously doesn’t know what they’re getting into.

    I hope I’m just a paranoid idiot, and nothing detriments quality or community involvement in these tourneys, because that’s what is awesome about the fgc, being an actual COMMUNITY (for better or worse)… I can only hope.

    • supersonicspear64

      businesses want to support events that are legitimate. can you really blame them?

      collusion and sandbagging undermine an event’s integrity, and frustrates the viewers, the players, and the people responsible for the event. i

      personally would not want to donate money/prizes to an event to see both players in grand finals fuck around with their secondary teams.

      scandals and issues that happen like this reflect poorly on the viewers/community, the event organizers, the players, AND the sponsors that put their money into making these events a success.

    • bartonzok

      Uhhh… I don’t think you fully understand how what is being tackled and how it is being dealt with. Collusion, a plague that has cursed the FGC for years, is when players share the covertly agree to share the earnings. Also known as “pot-splitting” it allows the players to not try their hardest because the winnings are practically guaranteed. This hinders the spectacle, the unpredictable high-level competition that is also an important aspect of the FGC that shouldn’t be taken away. The thing is, a secretive act like this can only be drawn out by the Tournament Organizers, the very people that are in charge of running them, not the Corporations. Companies like Mad Catz are only sponsors, who compete with other companies for sponsorship, they have NO power or authority over the Tournament Organizers with this rule in place.

    • Thomas

      People could just stop being dicks in the first place, revaluate their ethics and behavior, act as adults, and do your best. Better tournament for everybody. If they want to split to pot, buy a prostitute, invest in rainforrest preservation, I couldnt care less.

  • James Forrester Bardolph

    Is this just for America? Since only American TOs were consulted and it is largely an American problem.

    • Tommy Bonderenka

      Shadowloo Showdown is an Australian tournament and so are, obviously, all Toronto Top Tiers events.

    • King9999

      Canada is included too.

      • Travis Lynn

        Canada is part of the continent call North AMERICA.

  • SaltyRD

    Took long enough!

    Glad to see that majors are taking a stand on this issue. Now I’m going to cross my fingers hoping that player conduct is the next problem to be looked at.

  • RobertEspaillat

    Pot Split and then play for real their Madtrash

  • Shaddox

    Fightan has changed. It’s no longer about winning or having fun. It’s an endless series of proxy battles fought for money. Fightan – and its consumption of life – has become a well-oiled machine. Fightan has changed. Sponsored soldiers carry sponsored sticks, wear sponsored gear. Stream monsters inside their streams enhance and regulate their wallet. Raffles. Information control. Shameless plugging. Hivemind control. Everything is monitored and kept under control. Fightan has changed. The age of community has become the age of control…All in the name of averting catastrophe from esports. And he who controls the money…controls history. Fightan has changed. When the money is under total control…Fightan becomes routine.

    • Danny Craig

      wel done.

    • TheFoolArcana

      Okay I laughed a little bit.

  • James York

    Game Underground (GUTS) in Boston fully agree with this rule and we would like to be included in the list of tournaments above. Thanks!

  • John Liu

    I think more needs to be done to police collusion, but leaving it up to the sole judgement of the TO is questionable to me. In general TOs are hard working, self sacrificing individuals contributing to a great community, but not 100% of the time – you do get guys like Planet Zero and other people in the “TOs to avoid” list. I think any system where one person can decide unilaterally not to pay out to someone who won a tournament is problematic.

    Most of the time it’s easy to tell if both players aren’t picking their shit at all, but remember when Justin got Yellow Carded? Noel picked his shit there. That was a case of obvious collusion where one player picked his real team. So then you really do run into cases where you’re not sure if it was a counterpick or not.

    Ed Ma counterpicked Rufus with Zangief in top 8 of Evo in 2009, and got destroyed. That was someone picking a character they clearly couldn’t really play, but that wasn’t collusion.

    Justin counterpicked Air with Dan that one time, too, and Justin isn’t exactly known for playing Dan. That one might have been a pot split too, but everybody was entertained and nobody really complained. If Justin had lost, would everybody have cried collusion and demanded penalties?

    I’m extra bothered that Level Up is signed up for this, since that’s a local weekly. If we police hard at majors and err on the side of caution, I could kind of see that – people pay good money for plane tickets and hotel rooms, they came out to compete and lost, they should be guaranteed a good show. But Level Up runs weeklies, people who go to Level Up drove a couple of hours at most. Shouldn’t weeklies be a place where you get to try out new stuff, where you don’t have to play your absolute best every time? If you don’t get to play casuals against the best players, how else are you supposed to put your new team or your new character to the ultimate test than to pick it late in a local tournament?

    I’m not predicting imminent disaster here, because most of the time it is obvious when players have pot split and are just fucking around, and most TOs are trying to do the best job possible for the community. But I think in the long term this policy will cause problems, and should be revised for the same reasons that Evo doesn’t float players in brackets – even if everybody is trying to be fair, it’s too easy for someone to feel screwed.

  • Mike Pureka

    Good start; There are probably a few more issues the community could stand to take a stand on, however.

  • Martini Whoelse

    I hope by collusion you mean “staging matches” and not pot splitting.
    Cause no one cares how the money used, real talk.

    • windsagio

      I’m guessing they mean ‘splitting where people slack on the match because they’re splitting anyways’.

      The problem is that there’s going to be suspicion that people didn’t try if it gets out that there was a split anyways, but what they really want (it seems) is just people to go all in on matches, and not play random or some crap.

      • Martini Whoelse

        Amen to that.

  • comeatme

    the real answer is to just play old games and/or not have prize money

    • AriesWarlock

      Not prize money, I have thought about that many times.

  • King9999

    I wonder if there could be a rule where players have to register the characters they’re going to use before a tournament starts?

    • Cat Astrophy

      Would be nice. I personally prefer tournaments online where the pick is blind. Counter picking to me is not part of the strategy (Hakan hard counter was lame at EVO). Pick your character and deal with the matchups.

      • Daniel Song

        The funny part about this is that PR Balrog tried to do just that against Infiltration’s Hakan. It didn’t work.

  • Cat Astrophy

    “This determination is to be made at the sole discretion of the Tournament Director.”

    Seems ripe for abuse to have only one person make this determination. Collusion isn’t the easiest thing to prove.

    • Michael Gacillos O’Hair

      When collusion is obvious to practically everyone else in the room, the TO will be forced to make the call.

      • Cat Astrophy

        Well that would be fine. Honestly every tournament should have always been that way. Who as a reputable tournament organizer would ever be ok with collusion?

        They have to be careful with grey areas, though. Even good players choke.

        • Michael Gacillos O’Hair

          It’s equal parts being reputable and maintaining the hype of an event. If a tournament producer calls a penalty on a player who generates through exciting matches, there will be backlash from the audience and the community in general. Preferential treatment is a real thing, and is seen in many facets; no DQ for being late to a bracket or getting brackets switched up after a bracket has started, for example.

          And some players like experimenting in high-pressure situations, trying out new things to shake off staleness (playing the same character or team or running the same flowchart tactics over and over again may get old long before a tournament starts). Over-confidence isn’t a rule break.

          The grey area is the fact that TOs and judges can’t read minds and can’t see the future. From this point on, any collusion is probably going to be much sneakier and penalties may be mistakenly given. With the official ruling, proving collusion will be twice as hard as before. Making things official means written or sworn statements, transcripts, and other evidence to prove wrong-doing. The TO and a room full of people saying “They’re colluding because they’re playing like ass” might not be enough.

      • Lee Hunter

        they will also be able to make the call when it’s not obvious to anyone, not that it looking obvious is even actual evidence. Far more dangerous to the game than collusion.

    • King9999

      IMO, it’s easy to spot because collusion involves two or more people. The more people involved in something, the bigger the visibility.

    • windsagio

      Gotta have that rule or else people will get really ugly really fast: “Hey they cheated! Disqualify them!” –even if maybe its just a sore loser.

      Also it protects the fact that sometimes there are just crappy finals that *don’t* involve cheating

  • prodiG

    You can’t stop players from splitting their winnings – they’ll simply do it behind closed doors. This is a great first step in driving collusion as deep into the underground as possible within the FGC. If you guys are gonna do it, you shouldn’t even be able to bring it up in public space without the risk of someone overhearing it and exposing your ass. Collusion is fraudulent and it should not be tolerated.

    That being said, I hope the judgement on whether a player is throwing a game or not stay fair. Someone will inevitably try to call ChrisG on his shit in the relatively near future, but when he bops everybody but Flocker with not-Morridoom teams he can make an argument. When you’re at that level, maybe you don’t want to shoot soulfists to collect your paycheque. I’m totally okay with ChrisG playing whatever he wants, as long as his winnings and pride are still on the line. Take those off the table, and I’m just going to close the stream. There’s a time and a place for casuals, and if I care I’ll check the VODs. But not in the grand finals of a major that I am dedicating my time to watch (Time = Ad views = The stream monster’s way of supporting the tournament and thus allowing them to make a valid business case to a potential sponsor so they can grow their event).

    And so help me god, when you catch these motherfuckers colluding behind closed doors OSTRACIZE THE FUCKING SHIT OUT OF THEM. There are places in the world where you GO TO JAIL WITHOUT PASSING GO OR COLLECTING $200 for colluding like that. Those places thrive on the spirit of competition and the FGC would be foolish to not aspire to that level. Do not let them compete in your tournament. Do not follow them on Twitter. Ostracize them. Get them out of the limelight of the community at large.

    (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Match_Fixing_Scandal – Once regarded the best Starcraft player in the world now can’t even enter a small tournament.)

  • ProzacStylings

    I like the spirit of it.

    Three small concerns. One, what happens if one person appears to be sandbagging and the other person doesn’t?

    Two, if someone’s winnings are forfeited on account of collusion, does it go to the other prize pools, or is it retained by TO? In the former, collusion can still moderately be used to manipulate prize results(3rd place is in agreement to give them back their money, etc). In the latter, TOs can be overzealous to make money.

    Three, what if someone picks an unknown team they actually think they have a better chance with? Unlikely, but possible.

    Either way, the rule needs to stay.

    • windsagio

      One person just slacking is, by definition not ‘collusion’.

      On 2, I’d be utterly shocked if they didn’t just slide everyone else up. That’d be grounds to blackball the TO permanently.

      on 3, thats why you leave it as a judgement call on the part of the Organizer. This ties in with the first one too, you sometimes get people throwing hail marys when they know theyr’e about to lose, and that’s not automatically collusion or cheating. (nor, imo is somebody punting by playing roll/roll/roll or something).

    • prodiG

      I’ll address your concerns from a purely hypothetical standpoint:

      1) If one person appears to be sandbagging and the other doesn’t, that’s cause for an investigation. If the player that’s sandbagging has a side bet against himself anonymously somewhere, it’s entirely likely he stands to make more money by losing the match, collecting his 2nd (or whatever place) prize and his side bet winnings. A Korean progamer named Savior did exactly this and eventually got caught and prosecuted to the nth degree after a very in-depth investigation – http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Match_Fixing_Scandal. Now, we don’t have laws or an organization like KeSPA backed by the government to support these investigations, but there’s no harm in making sure someone’s story checks out by asking around.

      2) I can’t answer your question directly, but any TO who ends up retaining prize pool money is likely to receive a pretty huge backlash from the community. If you can’t answer the “where did the money go?” question, then it’s usually pretty obvious that you’re a fraud (within reason of course – there are some situations where it’s simply sillyto ask that question). Any TO with “proper” intentions (as in they are looking to grow and expand, and have the good of the FGC in mind) would never take the money back without being extremely transparent and fair about it. The ones that do… Well, if you continue to support that shit then you’re an idiot.

      3) I think this is where the legitimacy of the games come into play. If we’re playing at a high enough level, you’d be a fool to not have a team of people you are training with frequently. You can call yourselves a team or just friends, but you should have SOMEONE who can act as coach who you can articulate your decision to clearly. Then, they can back your claim up and when someone raises an eyebrow at the decision you have that coach figure to come in and say “no, he’s not colluding. This is why they made that decision – even if it didn’t work.” They don’t need to be sitting next to you in the middle of the match, but this all ties back to the investigation scenario I pointed out above. Again, it’s not hard to get a buddy to back you up when you are about to get exposed, but it’s another degree of human integrity. I like to think the FGC has a lot of that.

  • MetalMusicMan

    Hell yeah.

  • kreiden123

    this has to be one of the most childish rules i have seen. i know everyone hate to see a match to be taken as a joke but the problem is how can one tell if a player is not “trying”. but that’s my opinion so let the controversy rage on.

    • King9999

      Collusion involves two people. That makes it easier to spot.

    • bartonzok

      Spotting underperformance is mildly simple for someone who knows a thing or two about the game. Anything from constantly dropped combos (more than what the player is known for) from total disregard of the metagame is sufficient enough.

  • Osirun

    Excellent news.

  • Rohan Mayers

    What is “collusion”? Is it when the players agree to split the pot and then don’t pick their non-traditional characters?

    If so, I have a few questions.

    How can the tournament director determine collusion? Just because they pick random all or not pick their traditional characters?

    Ironically, a lot of people have been saying UMvC3 is dead and boring because they keep seeing the same characters. So, now players who are taking manage risk (picking a different character to please the fans while not affect their money) are getting in trouble? Kind of interesting.

    Lastly and mostly important, is fighting games more about the money or seeing new things? What is really wrong with collusion? Is it that they are not taking their main characters or is it that you feel because they have already agreed to split the pot that they are underperforming? If so, how are you judging underperforming? Is it skill in the match or is it because they did not pick their traditional team? This logic makes it seems that fighting games is more about money than seeing new things.

    A thought of a nonprofessional fighting gamer.

    • Marvin Choi

      A lot of it has to do with the increasing amounts of money involved, many of which are pot bonuses from sponsors.

    • King9999

      Whenever money is involved in anything, it complicates matters. I’m pretty sure the TOs don’t care what the players do with their winnings when it’s over, but they just don’t want it to affect how the players play their matches.

    • OmegaNITRO

      It’s generally referring to pot splitting and then obviously not taking the match seriously, or throwing a match in an obvious fashion. Picking a different team or choking happens, but it’s easy to see when the players are blatantly rigging or throwing a match.

      Not to say that they can’t still do that, but it can’t be OBVIOUS.

  • Louis Lam

    I like the idea, but it sounds like players could get a lot of shit for surprise counterpicks and choking (yes, it happens to good players too).

  • Rahavic

    Not sure why NLBC (although both streamers of NLBC are sponsored by MCZ, unless Henry Cen is given the duty) is not listed up there, but regardless I don’t think this should apply to locals. If there is such thing as a training ground for a new team, new tech or counterpick team it’s at locals. I think this rule should be revised for WNF/TRB. I’m all for the rest of it but not locals. Just doesn’t seem necessary..

    • Mash Harder

      You can’t claim new tech when you random all.

    • OmegaNITRO

      I’m pretty sure this article is only covering the TOs that run majors anyway.

  • $19298411

    “Furthermore, Shoryuken and EventHubs have agreed to only cover events that include this rule and enforce it at their tournament. To receive coverage of any kind, the tournament organizers must post official rules for their event, including the rule above.”

    I feel like this could be more damaging to the community than actually helping it.

  • Dreamspeeder

    Are the players entitled to any kind of appeal process? I understand why the rule is being put into play but rules aren’t perfect and neither are the people who judge when they apply.

    For example, let’s say that two unknown players make it to a grand finals at a major event (I know, I know, slim chance but just an example) and both play horribly. They’re on stream, it’s their first grand finals and both are extremely nervous and are dropping combos left and right. The match is over and the TO disqualifies both for collusion. Regardless of this outcome, both players have never met and were definitely not colluding. Under the Collusion rule set, both players have forfeited their winnings and must immediately leave the premises. Both players only wish that they were allowed to say something in their defense.

    Sure the odds of the example I’ve just given are very slim but there could be a dozen other situations where the TO may find both players guilty of collusion and yet there may also have been evidence to support the players in their defense that this was not the case.

    • OmegaNITRO

      Accusations of collusion are hard to prove and taken very seriously. But an experienced tournament director, and most experienced players that have seen the player in question can easily tell when a fight is obviously staged, thrown, or not truly played out. I’m fairly certain things like players having an off game or picking alternate characters or B teams will pass just fine, but obvious things like both players picking random select in grand finals is a clear sign of not playing it out.

      • Dreamspeeder

        Agreed on all points OmegaNITRO. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against this new rule. I’m all for something that punishes and reduces the likelihood of other players attempting such an act.

        But even then, what happens if the TO is wrong? A rule that grants absolute authority without any challenge can create some very bad situations. Let me phrase this a different way, let’s say that the TO disqualifies both players for collusion but the commentators, the crowd and even other players are thinking, “What? Is the TO smoking crack? Collusion? What did the TO see that we didn’t?” What then? How would the disagreement be addressed? That is what I’m trying to understand is the full scope of this new rule.

        • OmegaNITRO

          It’s unlikely an experienced TO would do so if it wasn’t to the point where it was obvious to almost all knowledgeable people in the room.

  • eilegz

    this its retarded seriously, its not that they didnt play and let the other player win, for me da beech finals was more interesting to see than the classic morridomvergil….

    • xespool

      Flocker vs ChrisG with legit teams…

      ResidentSleeper

      • windsagio

        Problem is that the only good solution is fixing marvel, and I wouldn’t stay up late waiting on Capcom for that one ><

  • SpaceLud35

    So if I PAY TO ENTER a tournament and make it to grand finals then decide to play ass-like and scrub out to 2nd place you’re telling me you’ll DQ me? Do I get my money back? If I was to ass out the final why can’t I? Why am I being forced to play for real? What do I owe the spectators? I’ll admit that I’ll probably be considered an ass but suppose I don’t care about that?

    Suppose I do this consecutive times? Am I just going to be banned from tourneys. My skills got me to grand finals. If I decide to throw it so what?

    Shouldn’t the onus be on the other players to step their game up and make sure they knock me out before I get there?

    This rule is ass. If you are paying me to play in the tourney then it’s a different matter. If I’m paying to play in the tourney then I can scrub out whenever I want.

  • BlackMasamune

    NLBC, Socal Regionals, VXG, Texas Showdown, Apex, Sega Cup, on blast?

    • windsagio

      SoCal is under Level|up

      • BlackMasamune

        mah bad.

        • windsagio

          Quibbling aside, I’d say yeah the others are on blast :p

          The funny thing to me is, ‘did they just not agree to the terms or did SRK just forget to ask them?’

          (or some third option I didn’t htink of ><)

    • Louis Lam

      Apex is an Road to Evo event.

  • windsagio

    On a different angle, weren’t they all raging about standardized rules in the ‘lol eSportz’ argument in the forums last year?

    • Lee Hunter

      FGC, now with all the negative aspects of Esports but still no money

  • BlackMasamune

    I hope we will see similar united stands against Racism, Misogyny, Shady DLC practices, mic vultures, etc.

    • windsagio

      Most of those I get, but ‘mic vultures’ is a term I missed.

      What’s that one about?

      • BlackMasamune

        Guys who jump on commentary without being asked or pester the streamer to be on, and proceed to embarrass the FGC and annoy the viewers.

        • Guymelef

          Dormammu dawg. You know what am sayiiiiing?

  • Arjay

    Everybody playing to the best of their ability? Sounds good to me.

    • Michael Gacillos O’Hair

      That means a home run every time at bat, right?
      Things don’t always work that way in reality.

      • Jack Auffersen

        Giving it all that you’ve got never meant getting it right… it means giving it all that you’ve got. You know as well as anyone that mistakes can be made even at high levels of concentration and execution. Please properly comprehend the words of others before saying something stupid.

  • Geoffrey Tasker

    so does this mean Madkatz will back back out of VxG after all

  • $21192153

    ahhh I hate you Chris G for playing Morri,Doom,Vergil
    Oh Chris G not playing Morri,Doom, Vergil in finals ahhh I hate you

    lol FGC

  • MaxGrit

    Rule is good as a start at implementation but the actual wording of the rule and its implementation needs to modified with further discussion.

    The determination of collusion should be given to a preselected triumvirate, one of which is the TO. 2/3 agreement is necessary for a DQ.

    There should also be an appeal process in place to review in detail
    the decision after the tournament is over. This allows for fairness to
    the players if they feel they have been wronged.

    Tournaments for FGs needs a primary panel that works to implement this rule.

  • WlNBACK

    I’m pretty sure the bullshit VxG grand finals set was a promotional bit for the upcoming Soul Calibur 2 HD (in homage to the Mick vs RTD “scandal” @ EVO 2004). Well executed!

  • D Major

    Players shouldn’t be sandbagging in Grand Finals. It’s disrespectful to the viewers, disrespectful to the tournament and thus disrespectful to the sponsors who pay to advertise.

    I completely understand why guys split pots but there should not be a conversation about it before the match. It invalidates any match where there is a cash prize involved. It’s a bush league thing to do. If a player wishes to give a portion of his winnings to the runner up, do it after the fact. Don’t plan it, and don’t expect them to do the same.

    The argument about “taking peoples fun away” is the biggest load of bollocks. You have online, local arcades and your friends for fun. You don’t go to organized events and fuck them off. It’s not a good thing to do, and in other more seedier industries it gets you buried upside down in the desert or fed to pigs. IJS.

  • BubbaChiefJohnson

    I’m not going to state which side of the argument I’m going to come down on, but what I will say is that for everyone who is upset about this decision by many of the top TOs, you can use this as an opportunity to prove to everyone how many people there are out there who have the same idea about playing the game as you do by becoming a TO and setting up your own event(s). If freedom is your mission and statement, take that freedom and run with it. Use it to build something that represents yourself and other players like you if you don’t like the current state of affairs.

  • Psycho Punisher

    I guess this means anybody who picks Hsien-ko(yes, those souls exist) will be DQ’ed on sight.

  • TheyCallHimX

    For SS2k13, first offense, you fight a drop bear.
    Second offense, you fight a Kangaroo.
    Third and final offense, you fight a 15m salt water crocodile.

    None of these animals ever tank matches. Ever.

    • Instead of bears or kangaroos, can we make them fight wolf scorpions?

  • Raees Rahim

    Why are people even arguing about this?
    Throwing a match in ANY sport is considered wrong and carries penalties.

    If you guys want gaming to EVER be considered a real sport, abide by the rules of a real sport and stop whining.

    • Omar

      Correct!

  • Cris Oro

    I find it astonishing that people are actually DEFENDING collusion as a right to the players who can make it to the top. Personally, I know that some people are doing this as a form of income, so I’m not that averted to pot splitting, but to completely throw the fight and be obvious about it?! That is where I have a problem. A lot of people go to tournaments to prove that they’re the best the world has to offer and to see that you were fighting your heart out only to have those who are better just tossing the grand finals because they’re getting paid anyway is just pathetic. It’s an insult to their reputation as a player and to the people they defeated to get there. And the argument that it’s “extra work” for them to try regardless? Really? If this is truly what they loved to do, then it wouldn’t be considered extra anything. I’m just curious how they’re gonna monitor something like this.. what if someone chokes that hard?! D:

  • Jose Emmanuel Argao

    The only thing this rule will accomplish is to turn finals from a blatant joke into a secret farce. That said, tournament organizers can set whatever rules they want. If a player doesn’t want to at least pay lip service to serious competition then he can choose to not compete in tournaments that have this rule.

  • José Ramón Pepino Ojeda

    Finally, I guess this is the third time this kind of thing happens, I just remember JWong doing something similiar, and I vaguely rememeber another case of pot splitting at top 2. I feel glad measures are taken.

  • Edmonton Gamers

    You can add Alberta Beat Down to that list

  • ReoAyanami

    I remember that Chris G picked random during the grand final of a third strike tournament. It’s not collusion since there were no private agreement between the players but would TO punish any under-performance regardless of reason? Justin did get yellow carded for throwing a match to Noel after all.

    Does it specifically have to be the exact copy of the Evo rules? Capcom, Dreamhack, WCG and MLG are not on the list and they would probably have their own rules to cover this. Will coverage of these event be excluded? Will event that doesn’t include the rule but discourages collusion through other means be excluded?

    Justin Wong used Dan against Air during Marvel Madness 2011 and not only was ii widely considered as a counter pick, the audience loved it. If that had happened today, people will be screaming collusion. But let’s say Chris G picked his Ryu team (which some people love watching) and played relatively okay, will he still be investigated for collusion? Basically, how severe must the under performance be and how much impact does audience outcry have on the enforcement?

    What about if two friends played a match offstream and it was not recorded and a few people claimed that there elements of collusion in the match. Can players be investigated based on witness testimonies? Are there any procedures for handling such a case?

    It’s one thing to “force” the rules to be applied to tournament but have there been any communication or training on the reasoning and enforcement of the rules so that it will be standard across all tournaments? Leaving it to the discretion of TOs may not be the best option.

    The coverage requirement also includes weeklies where players are generally more relaxed and are friends. Most of them are just planning to have fun. It’s also a time where the good players like Chris G and Justin Wong have experimented with week old characters which would seem random. Would they then be charged for collusion because they did not play to win?

    Also, we should just call this the Anti-Chris Rule.

  • Shadow Yagyu

    Wow I wonder If Chris G realizes how important he is, he does something that every top player in the FGC has been doing for a long time, and the entire leadership of the FGC mobilizes within 48 hours. I wonder if we can get them to mobilize this quickly to help players get fair money for their efforts. All players in the FGC need to stand together in union against this, then we will see what the TO’s and Sponsors have left with no one to exploit.

    • FMJaguar

      I would argue that the current system is the fair one, as it ensures coverage for the games people want to participate in, with predictable prize pools based on the number of players that want to play.

      Some players are actually arguing against ‘fair’ money systems, and arguing for pots that are heavily sponsored. In doing this, players assume that the sponsors will support their choice of games and rules, this seems naive and difficult to execute.

      This is especially true in Marvel which, for whatever reason, has been avoided by external sponsors. Gamestop chose SF4, Capcom excluded marvel from 25th, PDP was for MK. There is a very real possibility that sponsor support would change the game selection, as it becomes less about what players want to play, and more about what the sponsors want to pay for.

  • Thomas

    The sad part is, that this is a result of people being dicks to the live audience, viewers, sponsors, organizers, and shows a disgusting way of treating competition, total lack of sportsmanship, and generally low to non-existant ethics. In pretty much any other tournament in the world, people would get booted for that kind of behavior that ChrisG, Fanatiq, JWong, and other topplayers have promoted recently. Glad to see TO’s and Mad Catz do something to trying to block the nepotism and generally low moralcode of topplayers recently. Dbags.

    • HombreGranJefe

      Can you elaborate a little bit as to what you mean? I know that Fanatiq threw his match in Final Round, but I wasn’t aware that Chris G or Justin Wong threw any matches.

      • Thomas

        Just calling out Jwong and ChrisG for obvious potsplitting. I’m calling out Fanatiq for being a moron, and give the finger to everyone due to his match against chrisg.

  • Lordd_G

    So, if players wanna collude, they can attend VxG… everything’s legal in the land of the Dutch – collusion, marijuana, and prostitution.

  • grezex29

    In Melee, this is known with the “fuck you Mew2King” rule.

  • Azarel

    No crowds -> No sponsors -> No pot & No way to offset expenses -> No money (to stay in hotels/pay gas) in order to compete in tournaments not near to your home

    The scene as a whole would stagnate fairly quickly…

  • Tim Barnes

    That’s only if you alter your performance mid-tournament.

    If i join the tournament and from start to finish choose RANDOM for my character(s), is this intentionally under-performing?

  • t1bz

    players don’t enter tournaments to give monsters a show, they enter to play, and maybe to get money. silly rule is silly

    • windsagio

      Silly, but harmless.

  • KubikiriTurkojin

    fucking bs, if people wanna split pots or make deals let them. or they really trying to police a gaming tourney like this.

    in case these guys of the tourneys are completely retarded, good players can actually play a match like a real match with a fixed outcome.

    again, fucking bs rule thats not even verfiable wether or not people are cheating if they actually play it right. (which they would have to do now, because of this bs rule that doesnt change anything).

    • Marvin Choi

      They’re not trying to prevent pot-splitting. They’re trying to prevent really stupid Grand Finals BECAUSE of pot-splitting.

      Stop acting like a scrub, scrub.

      • KubikiriTurkojin

        wow you really like following my posts, dont you?

        ive got a shitload of more posts in this thread, read and reply to all of them you fucking retard.

        • Marvin Choi

          Don’t be mad because you get called out on your shit.

          • The_Ouroboros

            Are you kidding? That’s exactly why he’s mad.

          • KubikiriTurkojin

            get called out? youre a fucking retard, how the fuck would that be getting called out?

          • Marvin Choi

            Calm down, scrub.

  • SolidSonicTH

    Cracking down on collusion is a big thumbs-up from me.

    IIRC, that’s what spoiled the community’s spirits on ever making Soul Calibur a serious contender in the world of fighting games.

  • Ndebe

    “This determination is to be made at the sole discretion of the Tournament Director”

    Seriously does that not scare anyone else? So someone has the power to essentially fuck anyone he wants just because he wants to and get away with it?

    I mean, in a perfect world this would not be an issue, but the wording makes it very possible to abuse.

    • Marvin Choi

      Dude, EVERYTHING at a tournament is up to the sole discretion of the tournament director. Tournaments are dictatorships, not democracies.

  • vastreammonster

    We’re gonna need to clean this up if we want to make that “eSports” money guys.

  • Lawrence Ohh

    Should have been like this from the start. It’s like a boxing match in real sports. You can’t fix the game that one dude forfeits on purpose. That’s illegal.

  • Jeptha Hines

    So what about Curlah Mustache??? Will those not be shown here anymore?

  • TomAbz13

    How do you determine if some one is getting blown up because the other player is good or if the player is getting blown because he is throwing the match?

  • Setsu Oh

    i wonder how they ll judge this.. evryone has bad days…..
    though i thought, right away, that daigo made 3 big mistakes in the last round of (against tokido??) an important evo match….blatant mistakes that are not like him.

  • toooitchy

    FINALLY. This shit has needed to stop for a long time now, it’s fucking lame to have matches in pools be 100% more competitive than the goddamn grand finals.

  • toooitchy

    Unbelievable the number of people who think spectators have nothing to do with tournament money….. Evo isn’t as big as it is simply because of the couple thousand live players/spectators, sponsors have gotten involved and helped it grow because of the hundreds of thousand who watch the streams, there is revenue in viewer #’s, and that revenue is directly effected the moment 2 anticipated players start picking joke characters, like at VxG GF’s, large numbers of viewers leave, and those sponsors bottom line is directly effected. Like it or not, everyone is going to benefit from these rules, do you think every other competitive game would even consider the possibility of collusion? HELL no, you think LoL or SC2 has grand finals where players are throwing games, or not playing seriously? This community needs to grow up if it wants to keep growing, collusion should have been banished a few years ago, there have been far too many high publicity tournaments ruined already.

    Players play for themselves, but more players come from more viewers, and more viewers = bigger tournaments, which mean bigger pots, which means if you want that fight money, then you need to fight for it.