Skullgirls Experimental Balance Changes from Salty Cupcakes Skullgirls Experimental Balance Changes from Salty Cupcakes
Over the past few weeks, Mike Z has been showing off new balance changes for Skullgirls at Salty Cupcakes. Here are the changes we... Skullgirls Experimental Balance Changes from Salty Cupcakes

Over the past few weeks, Mike Z has been showing off new balance changes for Skullgirls at Salty Cupcakes. Here are the changes we have seen so far.

  • You can now no longer block from a forward dash/run that has crossed under and is moving away from the opponent without returning to neutral first.
  • Landing a snapback on an assist prevents you from using tag mechanics (tag out, assist call, etc.) for three seconds. Landing a snapback on a point character prevents the incoming character from using tag mechanics for five seconds. Double snaps count as hitting a point character, however following up the double snap with another hit removes the lock effect. You can still DHC to the character that is not locked.
  • All throws are now normalized as 7 startup frames, 1 active frame, and 28 recovery frames
  • Air throws can now be teched while holding down
  • If Valentine’s air-scalpels are blocked, she now has to wait 12 more recovery frames before she can move in the air
  • Valentine’s counter super now starts up in one frame down from four
  • Valentine’s counter super with a vial charged now does +35 frames hit-stop +550 damage, and now can be comboed off of
  • Painwheel can now fly cancel M and H nail projectiles
  • Painwheel can now take air actions after a whiffed/blocked air super
  • Hatred Guard bonus damage now stacks with itself as long as you don’t hit with the attack (you can fly cancel to store your charge). Capped at a third of Painwheel’s life bar in damage. Hatred Guard bonus damage is always applied to the next move that could be hatred charged. I.E. you can stack up a lot of damage with her multi-hit fierce absorption window to produce a super powerful jab
  • Cerebella’s MK followup to her command run now does a cross-up with no attack. To get the Kanchou, you need to hold MK
  • Ms. Fortune’s head cannot be knocked off by normal hits. Now it is knocked off when you snap her out
  • Ms. Fortune’s LK Fiber Upper has decreased block stun, increased hit-stun, increase knockback, and cannot be hand-sprung out of
  • Ms. Fortune’s air-dash is now much slower and has to be executed far higher off the ground when her head is off
  • Ms. Fortune’s axe-kick forces an OTG (fuzzy on this one)
  • Ms. Fortune’s head runs faster during head recall.
  • Peacock can now only have two bomb projectiles on the screen at once
  • Peacock can now cancel her bomb tosses into other bomb tosses simply by pressing another button during the throw animation
  • Parasoul’s bike grab now has a bigger hurt box, allowing you to attack him much easier.
  • Filia’s aerial Gregor Samson now has increased recovery frames when she touches the ground
  • Filia’s HK Airball now has -4 frames of hit-stun (15 from 19)
  • Filia’s j.HP no longer has a backward facing crossup hitbox
  • Double’s Furoboros attacks now don’t trigger during double button inputs, preventing them from attacking with assist or throw macro buttons
  • Furoboros now travels at an angle with L button presses and straight forward with M button presses
  • The first hit of Double’s fridge drop is now an overhead
  • MVC2 style undizzies have been added into the game. Currently, the undizzy limit is set at 420 with lights adding 30, mediums adding 20, and heavies adding 10. Undizzy increases per button press, so multi-hit moves like Valentines standing LP or Cerebella’s jumping LP will add to undizzy multiple times. When the undizzy limit has been reached, the opponent’s hit-sparks turn green, and pressing a button triggers the undizzy spin-out animation. Undizzy will also carry over between resets that are 3 frames or faster

All of these changes are still experimental and may or may not make it into the next balance patch. You can see all of Mike’s experimental changes and upcoming projects on his online to-do list. Some of them are pretty cool, like a built in Guitar Hero style lag checker.

In addition, Mike has told us that Microsoft has rejected the Xbox 360 patch…again. Fortunately, he has already created a new patch and submitted it to Konami, so hopefully they will submit it to Microsoft again soon!

In brighter news, Squigly has almost all of her normals implemented. You can see them in action through the Salty Cupcakes stream archive below, starting around 3:53:00.

Watch live video from eightysixed on TwitchTV

Source: Salty Cupcakes

  • sévérine

    a thing I’d also mention is the experimental frameskip changes. a lot of the matches were being run with it skipping every 6th frame instead of the usual 7th

  • Andres Velasco y Coll

    Undizzy at 420.

    Green sparks.


  • MashingShoryuken


    • windsagio

      because rules are things.

      • CompetentFGC

        Things that the irresponsible Mike Z didn’t think to check before he made a patch that MS will never release. Thanks for screwing over all SG players on the 360, Mike Z.

        • Zidiane

          According to all the info we’ve received, someone at Konami missed an obvious bug. There’s an NDA so there are no specifics.

          • windsagio

            maybe, maybe LZ should take responsibility for their own product.

          • Cat Astrophy

            Next time don’t sign an NDA that doesn’t let you communicate with your fans about critical things like this.

          • Zidiane

            … word, brah? Are you srs?

        • James Reilly

          Mike had nothing to do with this lol

          Surprised Mike even has the patience to deal with bureaucratic hell and incompetence with MS and Konami.

      • MashingShoryuken

        you right but if they let some break them they should let all.

        • windsagio

          well no. That’s a terrible rule of thumb.

          More to the point, they should have known EXACTLY what was wrong after the first time they failed cert. MS gives a really complete list of what caused them to fail. If they didn’t fix it, or introduced new bugs, then that’s on them.

          Not on Konami, not on MS, on Lab Zero.

          • Michael Zaimont

            You’re doing that thing again where you talk like you have any idea of what’s going on while being completely ignorant, and I have to show up and reply just so people don’t read your junk and believe it. You really should stop that.

            MS did NOT list the 2nd bug in their report, but it’s a bug nonetheless. It should have been found during the months of testing, but wasn’t.

            “Not on Konami, not on MS, on Lab Zero.” This isn’t you being right and everyone else not listening, this is you being a jerk.

          • CompetentFGC

            Hey can I get a refund for my purchase of SG? You lied to us and said that we would get updates and more characters. That clearly isn’t the case. Stop cheating us out of money and refund the 360 players.

          • windsagio

            The problem is Mike, you’re just not very credible, except to your absolute core fans.

            I think you legitimately believe it’s not your fault and you’ve been constantly victimized over the last year by the cruel fickle goddess of fortune, but most people grow out of that phase by their mid twenties.

            Still lets say it happened exactly as you said. MS missed the bug the first time, Konami missed the bug, your $20,000 external QA missed the bug… *ITS STILL ON YOU.*

            Edit: removed stories about taking responsibility for my own work.

            So I hear people blaming MS ‘bureaucracy’ or blaming Konami, and it’s honestly kind of annoying. To me, there’s a pattern of issues all around the same thing, regardless of who else is involved. The absolutely constant element is you guys… which to a point is fine.

            The problem is that if you don’t take responsibility for your mistakes you’re never working on fixing them. It really irks me to see your fans constantly victimized by your ‘bad luck’

          • Psycho Power J

            Dude. Seriously, just stop talking. You’re not the only one frustrated about this. Unless you’re the privy to the details of what went wrong, you’re just venting. It already said in the article that they submitted a new patch. If they’re truly irresponsible, they’d just throw their arms up and stop trying.

            It’s not about luck or responsibility. Bugs get overlooked in sizable programs all the time.

          • MashingShoryuken

            He never said it wasn’t Lab Zero mistake. He just said that your just pointing this out cause you are just being a jerk.Also everybody else is saying It’s not Mike’s fault not one time did you hear it for Mike Z himself. I don’t know if he made the mistake this time but all i’m doing is being a fanboy and pointing out that I hate Microsoft because as you said” rules are things” and Microsoft has lie to me on several occasion ( aka breaking rules or things as you put it to benefit themselves) . i ALMOST HAD TO SUE THEM CAUSE THEY TOLD ME A CANCELLED AN XBOX 360 FREE REPAIR ORDER FOR THE 3 RINGS OF DEATH AND THEY HADN’T SEND ME MY CONSOLE BACK IN OVER 3 MONTHS so yeah I hate Microsoft.

          • windsagio

            ‘you’re just being mean’ is taking the discussion from early-20s slacker to elementary school.

            If I wanted to be mean I would have already been gloating about how much more right I was than him about how poorly his combo system would work.

            About MS, they’re not blameless all things… but you know what? They also handle hundreds if not thousands of submissions a year. They have a standard system and the ins and outs of it are well known. Especially given the nutso and innacurate stuff that’s been coming out of this crowd (my favorite was the guy who said MS didn’t know about the patch size limit until Skullgirls broke it), who ya gonna think is messing up? Also, and more to the point I was staying away from it until people started carrying on about how it was (as always) other peoples’ fault. That’s what they call in the biz a ‘trigger’ for me.

          • MashingShoryuken

            you might be right about the elementary school thing but i was just letting you know that your last post about Mike Z not taking the blame was irrelevant because that’s not what he was talking about at all. And my first post was because i’m bias against MS cause of what I had to go through not to say they cant do good business that just irrelevant to me cause they handle there business with me poorly. And at the end of the day that’s all that matters to a customer, not what they did for other customers but what they did for you.

          • windsagio

            first time I heard anything about this subject was (let me get the quote):

            “Mike confirmed on salty cupcakes tonight that Konami fucked up with the patch and it had to be submitted AGAIN. Which means another 2-3 weeks if, and only IF, it doesn’t get sent back again.”

            “Mike confirmed that Konami fucked up” being the relevant part here. Yes its possible that the guy misreported it, but it’s also fairly clearly stated, and in character.

          • Austin Davoren

            No, no see, you’re wrong again.

            The “ins and outs” are not well known and the process is awful.

            We’ve heard from Ron Carmel and 200 other indie developers that MS are just the fucking worst at handling certification.

          • MashingShoryuken

            I didn’t say it was but it’s does make much sense to have a rule that only gets enforce when it benefits you. I RULE SHOULD ALWAYS BE ENFORCE OR NOT AT ALL! other wise its just favoritism or whoever gives me the most money and that’s would be a worst rule of thumb then the one I stated.

          • Austin Davoren

            Wait wait, no they fucking don’t list out everything, you can fail certification and they can not list exactly why you failed.

            Or there could be more problems than MS found and they did not find them this time, but may find them next time.

    • Joseph

      apparently it was Konami’s fault lol

  • GHNeko

    dem tag changes. hnng

  • Ben Brocka

    Wonder how the standardized recovery times for throws affects Val’s throw. It used to have very short recovery which let you take advantage of the crumple to start off a combo. I would hope that still works, since it’s sort of the point of the crumple. I didn’t recognize if it did/didn’t work during the stream; did anyone else catch if you can still do that (get in a hit before the crumple ends)?

    • Gailim

      if it had short recovery then it no longer does. I think he mentioned val specifically as one of the characters most affected by this change. But it was a long stream and I may be remembering wrong

      • Ben Brocka

        I’m sure it’s longer just by the numbers, but what really matters is whether the recovery is so long that they hit the ground before you can attack. If you can’t follow up the throw with a mid hit, that’s a major nerf to that throw (basically means there’s zero reason to use it instead of the command throw Mortuary Drop)

        • Michael Zaimont

          Nothing about throws is changed on hit, only on whiff. Everything on hit is the same…that would be an odd thing to standardize, anyway.

    • MyLifeIsAnRPG

      Crumple still works. The throws are standardized essentially for whiff, not for what happens after they hit. All throws start up in the same amount of time, are active for the same amount of time, and if whiffed, have recovery in the same amount of time. It makes Vals throw more vulnerable but doesn’t affect her comboability one bit.

      • Ben Brocka

        So if it connects the recovery is effectively the same as now, then?

        • MyLifeIsAnRPG


  • Jake Long

    This is a classic case of what’s called ‘burying the lead.’

    • Ben Brocka

      If you mean the 360 patch info, I wouldn’t technically call it the lead. While important to know (for some) it’s technically side-info, as that’s a past patch, not this patch.

  • ace_crusher

    At the risk of sounding dumb, what is an “MVC2 style undizzy”?

    • MyLifeIsAnRPG

      OK, so take how Street Fighter handles dizzies (consecutive moves adding to a stun meter and causing an opponent to fall out of the combo in a dizzy state.) Do the same thing, except instead of causing a dizzy state you cause an “undizzy” state, i.e. pop up in a spin-out. This effectively prevents combos from being too long, based on the amount of buttons pressed during the combo.

      • Cat Astrophy

        Screws over multi-hit moves (especially supers with many hits). There better be some damage number increases for those.

        • MyLifeIsAnRPG

          It works by button press not by hit

  • Tuen

    Microsoft… sigh. I’m going to just hold out for the PC version at this point.

    • Gailim

      that will probably where most of the SG community goes once that version drops. all the people who most care about SG already own the PC version after all

      • Ben Brocka

        Plenty of us have/play the PS3 version, though I’m *also* getting the PC version. I don’t see that segment going away, though Xbox players may all migrate to PC if this keeps up.

        • Gailim

          yeah, but given the low system requirements and already high (8-9K) install base, would you rather play with just the SG fans who own a PS3 or would you rather play with all SG fans?

          of course the PS3 version isn’t going anywhere, but I think that the PC will have the most active SG scene once it arrives

      • James Reilly

        Well the PC version would be the more updated version anyway. Would have exclusive features like lobbies, Beta, etc

  • Johnny Donuts

    Please nerf the Filia updo assist, almost every player is using it now, its clearly OP.
    And please nerf more of the Filia and Valentine backwards hitboxes. Theres way too many un-intentional cross ups.
    Also valentines j.MP is overpowered, it makes it impossible to stop her in the air and gives her annoying movement.

  • SpiderDan

    Nice work on the undizzy, Mike. I know to some extent, you wanted to maximize combo freedom, but combos that last 50+ seconds are just obscene.

    I’ll definitely want to play the game again when the 360 update finally comes out.

  • OmegaNITRO

    They buffed Painwheel… did she really need it?

    And wow, once AGAIN Fortune gets nerfed (nerfed airdash and unsafe LK Fiber upper are much more significant than any of the other changes)… damn, why the hell is she even in the game anymore at this point?

    • GirlyStyle

      because ms fortune is pretty well considered s tier by all top players and PW is considered the worst?

      • OmegaNITRO

        Maybe if you still play on 360. The patch has nerfed or removed everything that used to be broken about her already.

        • Austin Davoren

          Fuck wut nigga?

        • GirlyStyle

          uhhhhh no? Even Mike Z has said she is currently OP…

  • Matt Hutchings

    Those Peacock changes sound awful why would you do that???

  • tgm_Zeej

    Wait, are we going to have the IPS and an Undizzy mechanic? Because if so, this combo system is getting a little silly.