[UPDATED] Additional Characters Found Hidden on Tekken Tag Tournament 2 Disc

Those are all qualitative measures of detail that can’t be compared though

I’m not saying Capcom didn’t put any effort into Tekken characters (I mean they gave Raven a ninja star projectile (that must have been really hard)). But we obviously have different definitions of the word “effort”.

 @ RunningWild

c’mon dog that’s just mean–I mean they’re both just 3d representations of Bruce Lee anyway, so they’re both pretty unoriginal.

@ M.scrubble

It’s hard for me to put my point across without sounding as if i am trying to put down the effort made by either party.

OK, let me start by saying I feel the SF4 characters in SFxT were ported almost for free.

So it’s clear I’m not coming from the point of view of a capcom fanboy, even though I do enjoy Street fighter.

I am talking about the work required for Namco, post tekken-6, to create the “clones” as opposed to the work for Capcom, post SF4 to create the Tekken characters.

This “work” does not include balance, testing, etc. We are talking pure aesthetics here, art and animation.

For a 2D style game, if two characters have the same animation but look different, you still need to create ALL the sprite graphics from scratch. That’s why 2D games dont have as many clones or customizable costumes as pure 3D games.

For a pure 3D game, many things (wall splat, face down, etc) can be created as animation meshes and basically shared. Only the static model needs to be made. Attach the animation skeleton to it and it magically comes alive. This also applies to things like customizing the character or applying dirt and sweat.

For a game like SF4, the effort required is somewhere in the middle. It is a 3d game so it has some of the benefits such as shared meshes/animations which can be seen in some cases, however the style is made to be more 2D. That means that the character graphics need to “deform” a lot more than they would in a game like tekken, and this deformation is more guided by a human animator than a computer following a mesh. You can see this for example with the facial expressions, especially those shown in slow motion when an ultra is being unleashed. The bodies have a lot of squash-and-stretch which are things human animators apply by hand. 

This means that simply transplanting animations from one model to another is not feasible in SF4 since the animations are tied to the model in many cases. Otherwise we would not need all shotos to basically be the 3d equivalent of a head swap…. we could for example have a fat shoto, a slim shoto, a sexy female shoto, etc. But instead we have a bunch of Ryu head swaps, and those that have enough of a morphological shift (gouken, sakura) also have significantly different move lists.

Tekken characters in SFxT were originally designed by Namco, but the art from namco games cannot be used in a capcom game either. Those assets needed to be created by capcom FROM SCRATCH. The Namco originals would only serve as concept art…besides Capcom would STILL need to redo the concept art for their own cartoony style.

For example in Marvel vs capcom, the fact that there are many comics with Iron Man does not preculde the fact that Iron man had to be designed from scratch by capcom for the game.

In TTT2 most characters are returning from previous namco games with compatible systems for animation and even character models. Since the style is more realistic and less cartoony, the bodies do not have as much artistic input on top of their basic look and the invisible animation mesh.

As a result it is significantly less actual effort required to add a clone to a 3d fighting game as it is to add a non-clone to a 2.5d fighting game- from an artistic standpoint.

In the end though that bit of information is a but irrelevant anyway. There’s nobody sitting down and measuring exactly what a certain character is worth based on how long it took to make them. In the end what matters is how the customer perceives this value.

it is clear that the FGC values all characters equally, regardless of “clone” status and values never-before-seen characters over familiar ones even if it is clear the character couldn’t be simply ported over. 

I guess this is why a lot of people seem to think Mike Z was lazy to include a small number of characters in skullgirls when it is clear that since the game is 2d and high framerate, the addition of new characters to that game would be insanely labor-intensive.

“ Marshall Law in SFxT is just Fei-Long’s model with a mustache.”

I could say that Forest Law in TTT2 is just Marshall without a mustache.

Oh wait, Marshall doesn’t even have a mustache anymore.

So, Forest Law just IS Marshall.

Lol.  This is fun.

Made up my mind about what? What you said here made no sense.

Point out anything I said that is wrong.

Is it not harder to create a character from scratch, compared to when you have a lot of source material for moves and character design?
Obviously it is. That’s a fact.

And is his comparison to Tekken an accurate one?
Let’s see. SFXT is a Cross Over game, hence it is supposed to have a lot of new guest characters. And Capcom dropped many of the characters from SF4 to make room for them.
TTT2 is not a Cross Over game, and they have no incentive to create 27 new characters and drop half of the original cast for them.

I’m biased how? What part of what I said made no sense to you?

What’s absurd is you putting words in my mouth.

Where did I say that the process was really easy? I said much easier THAN creating 27 brand new characters from scratch, sketching up 27 new unique character designs, and inventing all of their fight styles from scratch.

And your entire comparison makes no sense, as it is based on a cross over game.

Cross Over games are supposed to have many new characters. And to make room for them, SFXT left out a lot of other characters from SF4. Tekken has no incentive to drop half the cast in favor of an extreme amount of new ones.
If you’re going to compare the amount of new characters in a Cross Over game, then compare it to another Cross Over game.

The imaginative process IS still needed.

Because the moves in SFxT don’t function at all like they do in Tekken.  The character playstyles do not (and CANNOT) match those from Tekken.

The character playstyles in SFxT for the Tekken cast were COMPLETELY NEW.  Someone had to DESIGN THOSE.  

Jin doesn’t toss stationary fireballs in Tekken.  Characters don’t have super moves in Tekken.  Capcom had to IMAGINE, DESIGN, TEST, and REFINE these, because those DIDN’T EXIST BEFORE.

Even the visual appearance of the characters had to be redesign for the SF universe.  SFxT Kuma doesn’t look like Tekken Kuma.  Capcom had to REDESIGN HIM.  That’s a CREATIVE PROCESS.

“You only need to code”

Lol, are you kidding me?

Is this really what people think about SFxT?  Do you people really think Capcom just flipped a switch, and the characters just hopped over from one company to another, with minimum effort?