Wakeup SRK Streaming Live – Fighting Game System Design with Mike Z

by iantothemax on September 4th, 2012 at 7:03 pm

Keits and skisonic are back to get your Tuesday night with the fighting game community started right. Tonight’s installment of Wakeup SRK will feature another guest appearance by Mike “Mike Z” Zaimont, who is set to join the duo’s discussion on designing a fighting game system. He’s sure to have a ton of great input from his many years of experience and working on Skullgirls, so be sure to tune in early and catch it all. The stream will be live in this article, but you can also head on over to Twitch TV to join the chat.

Remember, tweets containing the hashtag #WSRK will be featured on the show, so if you have any questions for Mike feel free to send them in. Just keep it classy!

Watch live video from Keits Stream and WakeupSRK Live on www.twitch.tv

Source: Wakeup SRK Live

Jet_Set_Dizzy

<3 Mike Z
- http://ceciliasmith.myopenid.com/ Cecilia Smith
  
  The stream will be live in this article, but you can also head on over to Twitch TV to join the chat. http://Unlimitedjoys.blogspot.com
  - http://twitter.com/Kirkwzo Kirkwzo
    
    like…@facebook-1227512418:disqus ,
    goo.gl/u2c9V
- http://twitter.com/Kirkwzo Kirkwzo
  
  like Jeffrey explained I am stunned that a stay at home mom able to profit $9706 in 4 weeks on the network. have you look this(Click on menu Home)
Jet_Set_Dizzy

What about free to play fighting games with ad support lol?
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Zaimont/732839308 Michael Zaimont
  
  Ad support was a huge thing a few years ago in games, there were even services that proposed to offer streaming ads to your game (for billboards in open-world games, etc). Ultimately I don’t think any of it became profitable enough to continue.
  - http://twitter.com/novriltataki Fighting Game News
    
    Dear based Mike Z, where is it possible to talk with you about FG design with no limitations and censorship? (I mean other than the comments section in Kayin’s blog.)
    - http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Zaimont/732839308 Michael Zaimont
      
      PMs or forums? I censor myself about the same amount anywhere.
      - http://twitter.com/novriltataki Fighting Game News
        
        Ok then. So which forum? :O
http://www.facebook.com/people/Basil-Bisiolu/100000804618260 Basil Bisiolu

My body is ready for this stream.
http://handsomefatman.com/ Carlos Alexandre

Listening to some people talk about fighters, even fighters I don’t like, is so appealing. MikeZ is one of them (and no, Skullgirls is NOT the game I don’t like).
http://www.facebook.com/people/Magnus-Marklund/100003245078752 Magnus Marklund

Super interesting episode! Mike Z is a god tier guest! =)
PointCtrPoint

The problem right now is that competitive f2p games (FPS’ and the like) put free and paid users (PU) together. This is ‘fine’ for those games in the sense that people by now may have be enculturalized to think accept the stratification within the game, but for FGs it’s more or less unacceptable, given the basic premise of FGs as stated by Mike Z that both players have the same tools to work with, so it’s the skill that should matter.

That being said I think a f2p FG might have a chance if you bracket how much is spent or how many upgrades a character has due to paid items. The best way to think of it would be like weight classes.

In MMA you have 155, 170, 185, etc because a larger fighter has the advantage. But within the welterweight class (156-170) fighters have different skillsets and physiologies that often add up to a body that reaches 170 lbs. So if you essential create divisions for the overall measure of paid items (or their advantages), you can create different strata where people can make the additions they care to based on their spending limits. A good example is the VF5s customization terminal, where although the items don’t give buffs, there is a limit to how many ‘point’ items your character can wear.

Of course the downside is that you’re basically creating multiple games within one game. However, I’ve had this idea for a while and I think it can add a lot to the replayability and overall value to a title without hurting it’s core mechanics.
http://www.facebook.com/charles.scottspain Charles Scott-Spain

Please let there be an audio version on the way.
- J0hnick
  
  Any minute now, hold tight
suproman

I’d just like to give an answer to Mike Z on if there were to be a dominant universal tool for determining player skill that makes character selection secondary, what would be the point to multiple varying characters? Well I’d say player play styles, and and other personal preferences.
J0hnick

MP3 version now available from the link below

https://rapidshare.com/files/971335178/WSRK110.mp3

Enjoy your unofficial Daily cup
- Eric Dixon
  
  Appreciate the upload, however Rapidshare needs to die in a fire as they artificially slow down DLs (30mins for 36megs is ridiculous) and they don’t really work well on iPhones. Mediafire and Soundcloud are far superior to Rapidshare. Just an FYI.
  - J0hnick
    
    Your welcome, and thanks for the tip, I might use sound cloud next time.
J0hnick

Done, see post below
http://twitter.com/g13flat9th Mr. anon

Negative penalty should be implemented in any 1 on 1 game, with one caveat: charge characters should be exempt. Players whose entire strategy is based on run away, who are not using charge characters, and who feel perfectly fine squatting in a corner should have their power reduced once they have done so. Give it back to them once they learn that “Oh crap! If I keep trying to play like a douche, I’m still going to be able to attack and defend, but my output damage will be shit, and my super, max, ultra, mega comeback move will also be neutered.” ”Wtf! I guess I have to actually learn to fight now.” Run away should only be exempt from negative penalty if it’s during the end of a round, and a life lead is trying to be protected. Other than that, constant run away should be penalized. Run away was used in a real life fight between Nick Diaz and Carlos Condit. There was a lot of debate about it.

Also, parry isn’t stupid as a concept. It’s only stupid because it’s free. I’m not a republican, but parrying is the welfare mechanic of fighting games. You don’t have to work for it because it’s just there. Abuse it. Do whatever. To go full SF teaparty, parrying–in its SF3 form–is socialism for bad strategic players. If parrying had to be worked for then it would be good.
- http://www.facebook.com/spongejordan123 Jordan Bartel
  
  What makes constant run away any worse than constant chip damage? You just sound butthurt that so many games make these viable ways to play the game, but you aren’t capable of adjusting to it and beating it with your own style. Don’t like it? Play a video game with the penalty. I see no use for it in most fighting games.
  
  And wtf is with this welfare rambling? You’re choosing to press forward as an option, there were many times you could get punished for parrying many things in SF3, so I don’t see your point of it being “for free”. You have to commit to the parry and precisely hit each one, or else you’re being put into hitstun and taking damage you typically wouldn’t if you just blocked.
  - http://twitter.com/g13flat9th Mr. anon
    
    You don’t understand sarcasm, Jordan. Also, I didn’t say I couldn’t beat run away strategy. It’s just annoying, and it makes the game tedious. The UFC scores octagon control as a point for the aggressor, and the downside to run away in real fighting is that you can’t punch, strike, do damage, so you can’t score points toward a victory.
    
    Yes, I am aware that fighting games are fantasy, but there should be a downside to using an extreme defensive tactic. In the old games the downside was no scaling on damage and so-so programming, which made corners near sudden death zones. However, in SF4 games the run away player, corner squatter, or both is a nuisance, which must be endured because there are less consequences to using the tactic, and no universal overhead. Capcom could have struck a happy medium by implementing a universal overhead like 3S, but making it unusable on charge characters, and giving charge characters an overhead on a case by case basis.
    - http://www.facebook.com/people/Justin-Schneider/584412916 Justin Schneider
      
      You really just come off as someone who can’t handle runaway characters :
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Justin-Schneider/584412916 Justin Schneider
  
  Exempting charge characters is asking for imbalances. P4A has Negative Penalty for all characters, but what it does ot balance it is that certain characters gain it slower or faster (ie Yosuke needs to backdash roughly 6-7 times in a row before gaining where as Mitsu has to backdash 11-12 times) Also running away isn’t playing like a douche, it’s a tactic , if you can’t beat it that’s a personal problem. Parrying also isn’t a bad mechanic to have for free, it punishes players who get predictable, hence why 3s would sometimes reward a player being random.
- http://handsomefatman.com/ Carlos Alexandre
  
  Agreed completely re: parrying.
  
  I’m okay with runaway being penalized as long as the game is designed intelligently around it. P4A seems to be. Smash isn’t.
- http://twitter.com/VulcanHades Luisito
  
  Let me get this straight… So you want to penalize every character for using defensive tactics (aka zoning/footsies/counter/keep away), but EXEMPT charge characters? Am I reading this correctly? Are you even aware of the imbalance this would cause?
  
  If charge characters are the only ones able to protect their life leads, turtle and play keep away without any sort of penalty, that means every other character archetype would be at a huge disadvantage. And yes I’m talking about zoners, heavy footsie characters and all the other characters that are designed to counter stuff or whiff punish. Even rushdown and mixup characters would be negatively affected by such a system because once they would get a good life lead and try to protect it they would get penalized. And by nature, rushdown characters have
  already weak defensive options and health. So to further punish them for trying to protect their hard earned life lead seems like a little much.
  
  I’m against implementing any sort of penalty mechanic just to help scrubby players who can’t get around certain tactics like zoning, spamming or turtling.
  
  That said, I agree that any sort of parrying shouldn’t be free/abusable.
  - http://twitter.com/g13flat9th Mr. anon
    
    I never said people shouldn’t be able to zone, but Zoning is not equal to run away trolling. SF4, with it’s large stages, is a trolls paradise. Characters that are not charge characters have no reason to be running into a corner to squat because most of them have projectiles or are very offensive. The only exceptions to that statement would be Rose, Sagat, and Gouken because those characters are built to try to keep you out. Other than that, classical zoning does not require you to jump away, or walk back that far to establish your spacing. The only thing that comes of the SF4 run away is idiots jumping up and down in a corner because the other character can’t do anything about it. In 3S you could just jump up and parry that kind of stupid shit, or you could parry squatting anti-air attempts, but you just have to sit and trade, or do nothing in the SF4 games.
http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

Asking Mike Z about fighting game production is about 30% less productive than asking John Romero about producing your own FPS.

(for those not involved in game history, Daikatana is skullgirls writ large)
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