Mike Z Brings Updated Build of Skullgirls to The Mix-Up, Patch Change Notes Included

Mike Z recently brought a new build of Skullgirls to Family Fun Arcade. He went over a few of the new changes he was working on and answered some fan questions on the arcade’s stream, The Mix-Up. After combing through the stream archives, we have produced a full list of changes. Note that none of these changes are final or definite and much can change before the next official patch is dropped. You can find the official stream archive below.


Watch live video from themixup on TwitchTV


Watch live video from themixup on TwitchTV

Skullgirls Patch Changes
  • Added New Tournament Mode
  • All colors are available in tournament mode.
  • Sparring mode is not available in tournament mode.
  • Tournament mode starts you off in button check after controller select and before character select so you don’t forget to do it.
  • Unplugging a controller after a match takes you immediately back to controller select.
  • Match options cannot be changed off the default options in tournament mode.
  • Tournament mode will not grant you achievements, so the game will not freeze during gameplay.
Global Changes
  • Infinite prevention system now treats standing normal, crouching normal, and command normal as the same move. (Example, s.LP, s.MP, s.HP, c.LP, s.MP, s.HP previously wouldn’t trigger the iPS late in a combo. Now it will because s.LP and c.LP are both considered “grounded LP” for the purposes of detecting infinites.) This makes combos shorter and makes the game more “resetty”.
  • Hard tags now count toward the IPS.
  • DHCs no longer reset the IPS in some instances.
  • Random situations in which the IPS triggered without actually performing a loop after a one frame link have been fixed.  (One frame resets still do trigger the IPS.)
  • The throw tech window has been increased by 3 frames after a grab. (Cerebella’s air command grab is not affected.)
  • Hit-sparks no longer change to pink when comboing an assist character.
  • When comboing a character after death, they become immediately invincible after the infinite prevention system is triggered, ending the combo.
  • Assists now take 20% more damage when hit, up from 6%.
  • DHC freeze glitch has been fixed.
  • Alpha counter bugs have been fixed.
  • Forward techs no longer take priority over backward techs.
  • Redundant achievement freezes have been removed.
  • Fixed an issue where characters would transform into hit-boxes while art was still streaming. Instead, they briefly turn into de-resed versions of their normal art. Mike Z describes it as “looking all eight bit.”
  • Assist inputs are now more lenient.
  • Assists can now be called six frames before you can normally act.
  • LP+HK and LK+HP are now assist 1 commands for pad players.
  • Double jumps no longer cancel their momentum when put into pre-block.
  • Menus now wrap.
  • Online performance has been tweaked to avoid slowdown on bad connections.
  • Glitches involving the game freezing when choosing to change stage have been removed.
  • PS3 matchmaking has been altered. Matchmaking is now more lenient. Only three tiers are available.
  • New regions are available for matchmaking.
  • Save data corruption has been fixed.
  • New training mode options and in-game move-lists are planned.
  • US vs. EU crashes have been fixed.
Cerebella
  • Excellabella is now easier to input on the custom assist menu.
  • Merry Go-Rilla does the correct ratio of damage as an assist now.
  • Excellabella’s range has been increased.
  • QCB+LP might be added as a secondary motion for her projectile reflect.
  • Glitches involving a snap back hitting an armored move have been fixed.
  • 360 protection now applies to double jumps so you can spin the stick in the middle of a jump in order to throw when you hit the ground.
  • Cerebella’s run throw no longer whiffs on crouching Valentine.
  • Fixed a problem where Cerebella’s run throw would occasionally push back the opponent much further than it was supposed to.
Double
  • No longer gains meter while Catelite Lives is active.
  • Hornet Bomber H no longer has invincibility on start-up.
  • All versions of Hornet Bomber now cause techable knockdown. (Mike Z made a point several times to say that he personally thinks that the Hornet Bomber changes are unnecessary but he is being forced to make them.)
  • Jumping HP now causes 27 frames of hit-stun down from 37 frames.
  • MK followup and HK have both slowed down by 3 frames each and have slightly less hit-stun
  • Nightmare Legion is 2 frames slower on startup.
  • Nightmare Legion’s animation is faster.
  • Nightmare Legion knocks you in the opposite direction after it completes.
  • Nightmare Legion now causes techable knockdown.
  • Nightmare Legion’s damage has been reduced.
  • Nightmare Legion no longer stops when an opponent dies in the middle of it.
  • Double is no longer invulnerable during Nightmare Legion.
Filia
  • Air Hair Ball can now be negative edged.
Ms. Fortune
  • Ms. Fortune’s head flies approximately a screen’s length away from you after OMNOMNOM. This happens both when the move ends and when the opponent is hit out of it. It will always fly in the direction opposite of the nearest corner.
  • Mike Z said another OMNOMNOM change will be made but it is not implemented yet.
  • The last hits of Headless Furserker Purrage now hits all crouching characters.
  • Rekka timing is now more lenient.
  • Bugs involving strange head movement after death have been fixed.
Peacock
  • Input window for her level 3 is now more lenient
  • Teleport now has three more frames of recovery
Parasoul
  • Tear explosions now scale correctly based on ratio.
  • Tears now do damage to Marie.
  • Blockstun from tear explosions are now three frames shorter.
Painwheel
  • Minimum damage on Buer Thresher has been tweaked.
  • Painwheel’s tag in no longer starts you at combo stage 1.
  • Spin-Dash’s move input has been changed to hold down, mash kicks. It activates when 4 kick buttons are hit within 35 frames. It can be pianoed.
  • Spin-Dash can be canceled with a punch button.
  • Painwheels forward heavy kick command normal now has a shorter window for followups.
Valentine
  • Flatliner no longer stops when an opponent is killed in the middle of it
  • Flatliner no longer interacts with assists or Ms. Fortune’s head
  • Level 3 is now faster.
  • The animation of Level 3 can be skipped by holding punch.
  • Green (stun) poison wears off more quickly when the opponent is in hit-stun. Makes it harder to do extended poison combos. Removes many combo options along with IPS change.

 

Source: The Mix-Up

  • http://twitter.com/HooliganCombo James Reilly

    Prefer this game to be reset emphasis over long combo emphasis. I can play other games if i desire 30 sec combos to be the norm, but this patch in the end will help keep the skullgirl scene healthy so i see no issues with this. LONG RUN over SHORT RUN people. This is would be the more accurate version of how Mike Z invisioned this game to be.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5FLRQI2X2LU3IHMCG7HEAEFD5I Cat Astrophy

      I agree. Long combos are more of a matter of rote memorization which is incredibly boring to me so I’d rather master mind games and mix-ups to reset for short combos.

    • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

       Mike Z invisioned Ms. Fortunes head flying ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE SCREEN after biting someone? Orly? 

      • http://twitter.com/HooliganCombo James Reilly

        This was one of two solutions he mentioned to patch the nom loop. Keep in mind this is not set and stone yet

        • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

           I understand it’s his game but sometimes people are too biased to do what’s best for everyone and not just himself.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3FXA4KALC22R6V2GDTDCGGUAVY Boogaa Booggaa

      Wow I literally said combos were to long day 1, and people blew me up online. Glad people finally realize. I hate fan boys 

  • http://twitter.com/Christianbamy Christian Amy

    People cried so hard that he had to tweak the double assist even though he didnt want to. lol maybe if we cry about log trap assist in MvC Cashcom will nerf it so we dont get beat at our own tournaments by diminutive foreigners.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Gilmat-Spinka/632157649 Gilmat Spinka

      “diminutive foreigners”

      …You’re just asking for trouble, aren’t you?

    • http://twitter.com/raz0rw0rk Ramon

      Shut up.

    • Arobadope

      If I am not mistaken Mike Z said the invin on Double assist was a mistake, I think he means making the knockdowns techable that he disagrees with, but i could be wrong.

    • http://twitter.com/OreoTheWolf Oreo Wolf

       >implying Log Trap is a problem

      • http://twitter.com/Christianbamy Christian Amy

        >implying hornet bomber is a problem …

        • Disco-lemonade

           >implying
          Keep this shit out of here.

          • http://mystady.com/ MY STADY — mystady.com

            Get that “Keep this shit out of here”, shit out of here.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Yan-Zhao/10516382 Yan Zhao

      Someone’s salty for losing to “diminutive foreigners”.

  • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

    Good changes overall, @MikeZ and the gang.
    Wouldnt it be ironic if I knew someone Mike worked for…

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

       Don’t worry, I’m blaming you for it regardless.

  • http://twitter.com/DarkKirbyx DarkKirby

    Poor Ms. Fortune, poor ChrisG. ChrisG was the only person who didn’t main Peacock and Valentine and the tech he discovered for Ms. Fortune is getting nerfed because he wins tournaments with her.

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

       He didn’t discover the loops lolimbad found it like week 1/2

    • Eric Nguyen

      I generally see Ms. Fortune being easier to use with these changes in place. I’m going out on a limb here to say that infinite nom-nom-nom loops weren’t what MikeZ intended to put in the game.

    • http://twitter.com/DevilJin01 Devil Jin

      Fortune’s still gonna be pretty damn good. I wouldn’t worry.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=512147398 Alexis A. Rivera-Montalvo

      No, Ms. Fortune is getting nerfed because Nom’s recovery moving the head behind the opponent was an unintentional glitch in the first place and it got fixed as such.

      Fortune still has TOD’s as 1v3 and 1v2 that are meter positive, even with the patch changes.  I would NEVER feel sorry for Fortune.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/J3BHHFO2N7DVPJ4U4EJK5524O4 Joshua

    Loving the updates this game is getting. This is how its done.

  • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

    Yesterday they said that this wasnt put up because it wasnt final.
    Now it’s here.
    Was this for UltraChen tonight?

  • http://twitter.com/Adnan199X Adnan

    I only got the game a couple days ago, so I won’t even pretend I understand the balance of the game, but I’m assuming Double is pretty strong? Her list of nerfs are noticeably longer than everyone elses.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=647440056 Lee Bailey

      list is longer due to nightmare legion but that’s minor. Double is middle of the road.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=577713597 Ben Houtteman

    Loving this game and the proposed patch. Any tentative release date?

  • http://twitter.com/munkeytron Real Name

    that new IPS tweak is gonna kill some of fortunes combos :(

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Stanley-Seymour/694256223 Stanley Seymour

      We’ll be luck if it does not kill a large if not huge portion of her combos when this patch comes through.

      • http://twitter.com/lolPfhor Ryan Delaney

        Other than miss fortune since she got changed quite a bit, you can actually just test and see how your combos fare with the new rules in the game that is already out. Get yourself ready for the patch.

        For example I can modify my Painwheel BNB so that it works within the new system and it does 6.4k meterless instead of 8k. It’s less damage but I think the game will be better for it.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=512147398 Alexis A. Rivera-Montalvo

      She still has TODs in 1v3 and 1v2.  Meter-positive.  With the new IPS AND only one Nom.

      It just happens to be more situational, which is perfectly fine because so will everyone else’s combos. This game was made with NOT long combos in mind. Resets were more powerful to begin with, and now they’re much more important.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ian-Corral/100001780902248 Ian Corral

    Not too happy about the Double nerfs, not because of teams but for my solo Double. However, I am happy about the changes to the IPS, makes my Double resets more and more viable.

  • http://twitter.com/EDarkness NadiaED

    Hate the fact at the Double Hornet Bomber changes. Stuff like that is ruining the scene. Because if enough people whine and complain nowadays the higher ups request it should be changed. What happened to learning the counter tech for the characters? 

    • Disco-lemonade

      The invincability on it was a mistake, but I don’t know who was all bitching for the techable knockdown. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ian-Corral/100001780902248 Ian Corral

      I can deal without the invincibility on the Heavy version, since the medium is enough to deal with approaches. But I draw the line at the knockdown. Double does not deserve that much.

      • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

         Yeah…2100 dmg and them being helpless afterward is fine! -__-
        By comparison the only single move more powerful is Cerebella’s special throws that can only be done on the ground and close.

    • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

       They change ONE thing (a pretty abusable thing) and YOU start whining about whining?

  • Uno

    No word on loading times for 360 unless I missed it, boo.

    • http://twitter.com/Christianbamy Christian Amy

       he said its reduced but he didnt give hard data on how much its reduced.

    • http://twitter.com/HooliganCombo James Reilly

      Mike Z discussed that in the stream, load times are not an issue for 360 as well as the hitboxes showing

      • Uno

        That is awesome news, it can not come out any sooner for me.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chris-Sullivan/100000125792404 Chris Sullivan

        The hitboxes showing aren’t a problem for 360? Because when I play for a good 2 hour session…it happens atleast 10+ times…

        • http://twitter.com/HooliganCombo James Reilly

          No with the upcoming patch it won’t be a problem. He made it so instead of instances of green hit-boxes he made it so the sprite would have that “8-bit” look for a split second and would be hardly noticable

  • MasterChibi

    Thanks to everyone who complained about Hornet Bomber, you guys make the FGC worthwhile!

    Make sure to have pen and paper ready for the next thing you can’t be bothered to use 2 brain cells against!

    • http://twitter.com/HooliganCombo James Reilly

      Personally though the Double HK hornet bomber invis window simply beat Way TOO MUCH sh1t on trade. Yes I know there are many ways to avoid/deal with it since i personally don’t have issues with it but it is a balance problem. I figured the invis window would be tweaked anyway, but did not expect it causing teachable knockdown down. Now that i AGREE was a tad too much, but all in all its for the good of the game and they needed to fit in as many patch changes on this update as possible.

    • http://twitter.com/Shin_Hogosha Michael Connolly

      Yeah, pretty much this.  If someone asked me what Hornet Bomber needed for a nerf, I woulda just said “We need one?  I dunno, change it from invincible to 1 or 2 hits of super armor until the third hit of the Bomber, then let her get off the screen a hair quicker to make up for the nerf.”  Instead, we get whatever the hell this is along with (surprise) a bunch of buffs for the grappler, both direct and indirect (IPS change is a buff for her, IMO).

    • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

       I guess we are all as dumb as Justin Wong then.

      • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

         Justin doesn’t practice games that aren’t in EVO

        • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

          It must have been my imagination seeing him in 3 different tournaments this past month.
          And seeing him talk to Ultradavid about it.
          All in my head…lalala

          • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

             He doesn’t even know Valentine has a double jump

          • Sohjirou

            Or that Flatliner goes through Peacock’s Argus Agony. He was once at half screen and just stood there and died from chip damage instead of doing easy peasy flatlinter to win the game.

          • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

            Some people dont need to use all the moves to win (like syringe). and JW has won tournaments with that team.

            Also Flatliner moves across the screen faster and does more damage.

        • http://twitter.com/HooliganCombo James Reilly

          Not necessarily true, he personally enjoys the skullgirls game mechanics based on his twitter responses/comments from him on stream and knows the game won’t hit this year Evo. He says he won’t practice with this game TOO much due to preparations for the evo titles, but he has said numerous times this is a game he can get into once evo is done and does not doubt the potential this game has

    • http://twitter.com/lolPfhor Ryan Delaney

      Sorry bro it was still their fault for listening to them. Also I think changing the invul on HK bomber was fine, the techable knockdown change is a bit too far though.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=710995662 Nathan Paul

      LK and MK hornet bomber still have varying levels of invincibility (at 47 minutes).  Not sure why they are techable though.

      • http://twitter.com/lolPfhor Ryan Delaney

        Good news, Mike z changed his mind and made it untechable, but it bounces them lower so if you super after it you have to use an OTG. He also adjusted the super cancel window so you don’t have forever to do it. It’s harder to confirm after a successful assist but at least it’s better than it being techable.

      • http://twitter.com/lolPfhor Ryan Delaney

        Good news, Mike z changed his mind and made it untechable, but it bounces them lower so if you super after it you have to use an OTG. He also adjusted the super cancel window so you don’t have forever to do it. It’s harder to confirm after a successful assist but at least it’s better than it being techable.

  • http://twitter.com/Sanger_Z Ian Herrington

    I like the IPS change and bug fixes, hate the Double nerf.

  • Nyoka2

    For the record, I seriously disagree with Hornet Bomber H’s nerf. I feels like Sentinel all over again :(

    • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

       Do you know how much damage that move does on top of the abilities it has?

      • Nyoka2

        yeah, its good, but its not broken. Moves are allowed to be good. I handeled it just fine. It just forces you to be a little less aggro.

        • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

          When someone says the desperately cliche “not broken”
          That means that there IS a problem.
          or they love abusing it.

          • ookamunka

            Or it’s not broken.

          • http://twitter.com/Christianbamy Christian Amy

            What kind of logic is that???

      • Nyoka2

        yeah, its good, but its not broken. Moves are allowed to be good. I handeled it just fine. It just forces you to be a little less aggro.

  • Alan Jackson

    Correction: it’s Painwheel’s AIR super that has the damage tweak, not Death Crawl.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001410231702 Nicholas Jackson

    mike z is a goof.. i love his attitude about this…  can’t wait for it to be released!

  • http://twitter.com/Dandy_J AL|Dandy J

    i like the combo changes, but forcing everyone to use parasoul sucks

    • Nyoka2

      … qua?

      • Josh_the_Funkdoc

        they didn’t nerf the hard knockdown on her assist, which is the single biggest surprise to me in all this.  that is far and away the best assist in the game now with the double nerfs, especially given how ridiculous the OTGs in this game will still be. as dandy said elsewhere, it’s gonna be as if everyone has vanilla haggar assist + wesker gunshot.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Eller/100000115832735 David Eller

    They just took all of the Marvel out of this game, lol

    But in all seriousness, now that this is more of a reset* game, single player teams will be stronger, and therefore, Double will need that full screen SRK ready.

    I support Mike Z, but I dont like how he let cries for nerfs affect his creative integrity.

    • http://twitter.com/EDarkness NadiaED

      I think it was a more of his higher ups didn’t want people complaining.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Peter-Bartholow/796621854 Peter Bartholow

        I assure you that nobody higher than Mike knows anything about the multiplayer game balance, and even if they did, they would still trust him to fix it how he wanted to.

        • http://twitter.com/HooliganCombo James Reilly

          Ah, nice to see Mike still has good amount of creative control in his game guess there was confinement with the words he chose during the stream when people asked on his personal opinion on the HK Hornet bomber

    • http://twitter.com/lovethievery Mr. Irrelevant

      Wha? The game will feel even more like Marvel after the patch.

      • http://twitter.com/HooliganCombo James Reilly

        Yeah this is pretty much turning into something similar to a  less-flawed version of Marvel 2. Not complaining about that at all :)

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/NZYKMEOZMKVB4QJ7EPROWGCWOU IllusTreyte

    Yesssssss just one more step away from new chars. I can’t wait to form my zombie team

    • http://twitter.com/HooliganCombo James Reilly

      I assume you have Zombie Valentine in your lineup? lol

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/NZYKMEOZMKVB4QJ7EPROWGCWOU IllusTreyte

        Yes indeed I have big plans. Ms.Fortune, Valentine (silent hill skin), and Squiggly on a 3 man team. While playing “Thriller” in the background of every match

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Stanley-Seymour/694256223 Stanley Seymour

    I am not happy with any of Double’s changes or Valentine’s, not one bit as they are both my only mains in the game. Sure I am happy for the IPS change, but out of everyone the both of them got the HUGE end of the nerf bat. Seriously.Why can Parasoul keep the invincibility on her Napalm Pillar but Double can’t on her Hornet Bomber, wth. Her Mk into Hk is now shorter in terms of stun? Why? What reason was there for that? So basically now Parasoul is the only one in the whole game who has a godlike gtfo me assist, that I know of.

    Valentine can’t now do vial combos, well she can just not the green ones while Cerebella walks away doing combos that can talk off half a bar of life with a single touch. Not to mention her anti-air game got even better. Sure lets give the one who can do the most damaging combos with as little inputs possible and has one of the best  LV 1′s in the game even more tools. Won’t that be cool huh? I ain’t saying that she’s broken cause quite frankly she is not, but seriously out of everyone she got MAJOR buffs and hardly if at all any nerfs.

    No invincibility on Nightmare Legion…… what? Why would you take that away? So Bella can not only keep her super armor when she does her Lv 3, which makes attacking her all but useless, but Double’s level 3 had to have invincibility taken away. WTH kind of logic is that?

    I can’t even begin to describe how angry I am that my team got the larger end of the nerf bat, sure I’ll still play them out of character loyalty and the fact that the have been m team from day 1. But I just know that when I take the both in the lab to find out certain things….I just know I’m going to be one of the few pulling at his hair in frustration. I really want to steer away from Parasoul just to have an assist that keep my opponents off of me. Oh yea Mike, didn’t you say that you were going to include a character trial mode for each of the characters, or at least I heard that you were ghosting through the suggestion threads in the SG forums and you noticed a few people, including me asked if you would include it in the games final product?

    • Nyoka2

      i think it means the invincibility DURING nightmare legion. Now, you can hit an assist with nightmare legion and you can’t be hit out of it. Now, you are vulnerable as per normal.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Stanley-Seymour/694256223 Stanley Seymour

        Well that if that’s the case then I see nothing wrong with that, but it doesn’t change the fact that in my opinion I feel that these so called changes are now catering to 2 out of the 8 in the cast. Painwheel and Cerebella. Both in my opinion are going to be everyone’s go to characters when this patch drops, especially because of there very dumb resets. Painwheel especially as she is just a reset machine, sure you can play other characters but as it is if the nerfs for me team are really that bad then most likely I will have to pick her up as a back up even though I dislike her strongly. Jeez, felt like all that time I put into Double and Valentine went down the toilet and was all for nothing. What’s the point in my investing my time and sweat into characters that I really enjoy, if a bunch of morons who do not know how to block end up pissing and moaning. And for what? Because people aren’t smart enough to duck under the assist and block when you see it coming? Jesus, don’t tell me that this is gonna be like Mortal Kombat all over again, because if it is then I feel disappointed in the so called FGC.

        • dookieagain

          I’m sorry but as someone who played a character literally nerfed into the ground. (Noel in blazblue cs) you can find stuff that works. You don’t need to exclusively play whatever flavor of the month high tier character you see on streams to win. Chris g has been winning in this and marvel with teams that aren’t the flavor of the month. It’s fine if you like valentine/double but right now they are the go to team for easy to use and abusable point/assist. I mean it’s even who Justin’s playing and while I enjoy watching him his go to characters have always been poster children for easy to use and abuse especially in non capcom games he isn’t focused on.

    • El_Duderino_03

      all assists (even pillar) have two frames of startup vulnerability except HK Hornet Bomber, which was a glitch. removing its complete invulnerability is undeniably a good thing for the game. It will still be a good assist, just not as ridiculous as it currently is.

      • http://twitter.com/Shin_Hogosha Michael Connolly

        HK Hornet Bomber (Assist) could still get hit on start-up, iirc.

    • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

      Cerebellas lvl 3 is has THE SLOWEST STARTUP IN THE GAME and can be blocked low. If you get caught it’s YOUR fault. I main Cerebella and even I agree that the wall bounce after is stupid. esp bringing them always right next to me. Same for Filia. Cant it be random so it’s not so herp-derp easy?
      Trials dont matter. USE COMBO VIDEOS!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Stanley-Seymour/694256223 Stanley Seymour

        Slow start up means jack if you jab her and she just throws that out randomly.

        • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

           How about BLOCKING instead of mashing jab?

        • http://www.facebook.com/Rizhall Mohammed Ahmed

          Then bait it? It’s a freakin’ level 3, how many times can they seriously do it “randomly” anyway? Anyway, there’s more to the nerfs than what’s on this list. Cerabella, fyi, is getting an all-around damage nerf. And she’s not even that good, how are people seriously losing to her so much, I will never understand. But if you’re honestly getting hit by her level 3 “randomly”, or letting her hit you with damaging combo starters, then it most definitely isn’t the game’s fault.

          • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

            I think he is confusing that lvl 3 with Magneto’s or Phoenix Wright’s.

  • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

    And he comes to the realization that over-long combo systems really are death.

    Good show!

  • Zyrus

    I’m cool with the catellite change and the hornet bomber invincibility removal (don’t remember the knockdown ever being a significant problem though), but why are her normals getting nerfed? She was already one of, if not THE worst point characters as she was. And then Cerebella gets nothing but buffs? What?

    • http://twitter.com/lolPfhor Ryan Delaney

      The j.HP hitstun in the current version is a mistake, so it makes sense why he changed that. No idea why st.mk and her launcher had to be slightly nerfed, but it won’t make much of a difference. I honestly don’t think she’s the worst point character at all.

  • http://twitter.com/DanAdamKOF Adam Karonika

    Would be really nice if they could outright solve the characters streaming from HDD problem, if they could all be loaded into memory then we’d never get missing sprites.  I wonder if they could solve it by losslessly compressing character animation assets and decompressing them on the fly.  I’m sure they’re trying something like that already, I just wish they’d try harder…

    • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

      It’s hard to fix systemic problems like that in a post-release patch.

      • http://twitter.com/DanAdamKOF Adam Karonika

        Probably is.  To me it cheapens a game to release it with an issue like that.  I get that a bunch of hi-res images aren’t going to all play nice in memory but there has to be something that can be done.

        Maybe Skullgirls and some SSD manufacturer could partner up and offer a discount on SSDs with proof of Skullgirls purchase ;)

        • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

          Whole issue is kind of frustrating.  They really should have either made good performance on any system they were selling the game for a higher priority than they apparently did.

          • http://mystady.com/ MY STADY — mystady.com

            How does RAM work?

          • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

            Sounds like a philosophical question.

            The primary concern here is apparently that it’s a finite resource, though.

    • d3v

      It’s hard to keep everything in memory when the characters take so much of it. These aren’t flat sprites after all. All the character art is split into multiple layers (false color map, shading layer, etc.) and each has its own depth map for the dynamic lighting. And that’s on top of them being twice the size of the normal resolution. Its the reason why THCs were taken out- they couldn’t keep that much data in memory.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Peter-Bartholow/796621854 Peter Bartholow

      …Sorry, but this is ridiculous.
      It is not a matter of “trying harder” – we are already doing everything possible to make this game work, technically.First, you can’t have compressed things in video memory unless they’re DXTs. Those are far from lossless, and are larger in system memory and the HDD. So it’s actually slower AND looks worse. We’re already streaming and decompressing the animation into video memory in real time, and it’s basically completely full at all times. Uncompressed, each character is around 90 megs.For comparison’s sake, Arc System Works’ fills memory with two characters that are smaller and have less animation than ours, without streaming. Because of our streaming and decompression technology, we can handle up to six and it works most of the time. 

      None of this really showed up in development or testing, either – we are under the system documentation’s max stated data transfer rates, and some HDDs still can’t keep up. How often it happens basically comes down to what model system and HDD you have, how full it is, etc… Stuff that basically doesn’t happen in a development environment.

      • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

        maybe you shouldn’t have insisted on the sprites and frames being the as big/plentiful as they were then, would have solved a ton of problems in one go.  :p

        • d3v

          But would have likely meant sacrificing their new, innovative way of handling sprites. The large file size most likely has alot to do with the fact that the sprites are layered with shading layers and a bump map for dynamic lighting. This actually cuts down on development time since the sprites don’t have to be coloured and shaded in on a per pixel basis and makes creating alternate palettes easier (the system automatically shades the palettes based on the shading layers). The game basically pushes 2D sprite work beyond what has been done before. The bump map means that lighting isn’t simply applied on a circular area around the light source like it is in games like KoF XIII. 

          • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

            New isn’t automatically good.  I’d much rather it not have the loadtime/sprite streaming issue, and would gladly give up more palette swaps and dynamic lighting.

            It’s an issue of priorities.  We’ve had plenty of ‘cutting edge just because’ games in PC gaming over the last 20 years, and it’s just a terrible idea.

            The slow loading menus/hitbox bug/lack of features, which mostly seem to be tied to the memory issues (memory is also cited for the missing movelists, for instance), are really obnoxious.  This choice *significantly* degrades the play experience on a multitude of levels.

          • d3v

            In this case, “cutting edge” is also what allows them to create characters in less time that it would if they went the traditional route. This addresses the biggest issue with 2D sprites at the moment. They can now make those DLC characters for less. 

            Also, as Peter stated, they were under the systems documented maximums for data transfer rates. The fact that the slowdown happens in some 360 models and not others seems more like Microsofts fault for not ensuring that all of their hardware will perform to the stated maximums.

          • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

            At cost of performance?

            Believe me I get that doing 2d sprites is a massive undertaking…

            But first things first.  Make sure your game runs and is fully featured.  

            There are plenty of other ways they could have saved money/time on artwork (like for instance having fewer frames or simpler sprites) without sacrificing performance.

          • OrehRatiug

            Nearly everything you say is stupid. 

        • http://twitter.com/lolPfhor Ryan Delaney

          The problem HAS been solved. Pixelated characters is no big deal at all, and the benefits from the way they do things outweight it.

    • Endre Hoel

      All those problems aren’t because of bad hdd’s. Those problems are mostly on the 360 because the system forces encryption and protection on all files, so each time a file is loaded it has to be decrypted as well. This also means that this is an issue that can’t be fixed by patches.

      However it can be ‘avoided’. The solution in the previewed build with pixels seem to work nicely, I didn’t notice it myself untill he pointed it out.

      This ‘issue’ is thus almost non-present on PS3-systems as it doesn’t have the same encryption of gamefiles as the 360 have.

  • Tessius

    Don’t know why Double is getting hit so hard honestly, it seems a bit excessive if you’re asking me. I’ve been playing her since the game came out and honestly, the people I play on a regular basis don’t really have that much trouble with Hornet bomber assist anymore. 

    Personally I think it’s more of a lockdown tool then anything else, not something you wanna throw out to beat out shit as people can just jump/crouch/pushblock 2nd hit to avoid most of it. And I don’t see why her normals are being changed either?But it seems like scrubs are the deciding factor for balance these days.. It’s a shame but I’ll cope with it.

    The changes to IPS was a good decision as I was getting tired of my own 20 second combo with Painwheel.

    Overall though, looks like it’s going to be more positives than negatives.

    • d3v

      Because of scrubs.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Stanley-Seymour/694256223 Stanley Seymour

        Exactly, my point exactly.

        • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

          All that rage from 3 words he doesnt even know how dumb it sounds.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Stanley-Seymour/694256223 Stanley Seymour

            I don’t know whether your tiring to offend me or anything but your not exactly helping.

          • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

            Cool Story :)

          • http://twitter.com/Christianbamy Christian Amy

             what exactly would you suggest they do to fillia’s assist?

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Stanley-Seymour/694256223 Stanley Seymour

            I don’t know whether your tiring to offend me or anything but your not exactly helping.

  • Eternal01

    In terms of Hornet Bomber, I dont think it requires the nerf. However I think this will turn out to be good for the game in the long run.

    The problem is the ability to map any move as an assist should promote creativity. However everyone was using Napalm pillar or Hornet Bomber. Hopefully this will promote ppl trying different things leading to a more diverse experience all round,

    • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

       Something about Napalm pillar should change because it has too many strengths Vs weakness. The other SRK types dont give you a free combo after.
      I dont understand why SRK assists HAVE to knock the foe in the air (right next to them)for easy combo after.
      Why cant it just knock them far away? or immediately techable on the ground so the match can resume faster?

    • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

       Something about Napalm pillar should change because it has too many strengths Vs weakness. The other SRK types dont give you a free combo after.
      I dont understand why SRK assists HAVE to knock the foe in the air (right next to them)for easy combo after.
      Why cant it just knock them far away? or immediately techable on the ground so the match can resume faster?

  • LolzorWat

    Hornet Bomber assist was a bit too good so it gets nerfed a bit. Fair enough. The changes to the IPS system are fucking awesome though, endless combos are boring and this is a very needed change that will make the game so much more enjoyable. Patchday can’t come fast enough!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5FLRQI2X2LU3IHMCG7HEAEFD5I Cat Astrophy

      A bit would be losing invuln. Adding tech knockdown moves it from “a bit” to far too much.

      • GO4PRO

        You can still combo off of it…it just isn’t braindead.

        Look at Akuma. People still use his assist and rock with it even though it’s way easier to tech out of now.

  • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

    An Assist should be an assist (ie extending combos)
    Not something you invincibly throw out into beefy damage with virtually no consequence.
    What if Sentinel was invincible during his ‘force’
    Or Dr. Doom had 4 hits of armor during his ‘missles’
    While none of the other assists in UMVC3 had any other types of protection and great pay-off?

    • http://twitter.com/Dandy_J AL|Dandy J

       assists dont have recovery in mvc3. in this game they can be punished

      • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

         *Ahem* WHILE ACTIVE!!

    • polarityy

       Using MvC3 as a reference point is utterly stupid since assists work completely differently in that game – still attack even if you get hit, don’t have a taunt animation that requires covering, etc…

      • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

         Ur right SkullGirls and MvC have nothing in common at all. What was I thinking. It’s like comparing Final Fight to Double Dragon………..

        • http://twitter.com/AlzarathEX Dealbreaker Jones

          That’s… not what he was saying at all. Jesus, I hate it when people throw that line of logic out.

          If you’re going to make SG/MvC comparisons, use MvC2 as that’s the game SG was influenced by. Assists in MvC3 work VERY differently.

        • hotbreakfest

          You don’t seem to get it… This game has MvC2-style assists which means they actually have recovery frames. That also means that baiting and punishing assists is far more important in this game than MvC3.

          • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

            I dont remember any assists in all of MvC2′s giant roster setting up OTGs…do you?

            Since this is based on MvC2′s assists…how many assists in MvC2 are completely invincible on start up->active, pop the opponent in the air helpless for a slow decent AND cause a hard knockdown all in one like Napalm Pillar?

            (you have to pick the assist that has all 3 of these positives in one not just one!)

          • jesus marin

            Psylocke is completely invincible, walks forward attacking, and allow you to otg into a combo, I’d take psylocke over parasoul any day of the week.

          • http://twitter.com/lovethievery Mr. Irrelevant

            Did you miss everyone comparing Napalm Pillar to CapCom’s Corridor?

          • mynus

            Corridor does not cause knockdown…

        • d3v

          Someone needs to play MvC2 and experience real strong assists.

          • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

            Werent there like only 5/56 useable characters at high level play?
            That kind of balance is not exactly something that should be praised.

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

       You’re still going to get your shit pushed in by Double assist.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Daniel-Galarza/765939515 Daniel Galarza

    Sh!  Do you hear that?  It’s the sound of Doublecock players fleeing to MvC3 yaaaaay!

    • http://twitter.com/Christianbamy Christian Amy

      Im not going anywhere and i will still body you with doublecock.

      • SithPL

        That…is the kinkiest thing I have ever heard in my life.

    • d3v

      Why MvC3, thar game has even worse assists. Now MvC2, there’s a game with decent, invincible assists.

      • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

         It seems you like games with BS everywhere. Have you tried Hokuto no Ken, Mugen or Melty Blood?

      • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

         It seems you like games with BS everywhere. Have you tried Hokuto no Ken, Mugen or Melty Blood?

        • ookamunka

          Why is a good invincible assist BS?  You seem to have the strange preconceived notion of what an assist should and should not be, and if it doesn’t fall into your terms it’s deemed OP/BS/whatever.  There is of course a point of no return, but that is of course dependent on the degree of the move, the game’s system, and how it balances out with the rest of the cast and their moves.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Stanley-Seymour/694256223 Stanley Seymour

            My thoughts exactly, but to each their own.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Stanley-Seymour/694256223 Stanley Seymour

            My thoughts exactly, but to each their own.

          • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

             if the word INVINCIBLE doesnt S-P-E-L-L it out for you…

          • ookamunka

            Please name me 1 2d fighting game that has no invincible moves.

          • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

             Aquapazza! What do I win?

  • Ty Arnold

    First I played Tron for her invincible assist, then she got nerfed.

    Then, I played Phoenix Wright for his invincible assist, and he got nerfed.

    Then, I played Double for her invincible assist, and then she, too, got nerfed.

    Now it’s like, I have to actually figure out the right time to call assists! What the hell is up with that?

    • Ty Arnold

      (Actually, I’m not nearly as angry about the assist nerf as I am about
      Catellite Lives not gaining me meter. I loved spamming that thing so
      much!)

  • RenaTurnip

    … But Valentine was already kind of looking poor. Now her green stun combos are going to get worse? I expected that to be the meat of her combo damage. It looks like she’s going to have to tolerate the low damage, and use the input delay poison a lot more, which of course is still great and is still going to mess a lot of people up once players start finally using it.

  • RenaTurnip

    … But Valentine was already kind of looking poor. Now her green stun combos are going to get worse? I expected that to be the meat of her combo damage. It looks like she’s going to have to tolerate the low damage, and use the input delay poison a lot more, which of course is still great and is still going to mess a lot of people up once players start finally using it.

  • d3v

    So no movelists in this patch?

    • http://twitter.com/TheDiscoShark Classy Gamer

      MikeZ said some people on the team were working on it but that it wasn’t his department. He couldnt comment on much beyond that for movelists.

    • http://twitter.com/HooliganCombo James Reilly

      The person who is in charge of the pc release with the attached updates is taking care of it; Mike Z is working on other…things for the game at the moment :)

    • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

       Who needs it!? The internet exists!

    • http://twitter.com/Adnan199X Adnan

       ”New training mode options and in-game move-lists are planned.”

      2nd to last bullet point under Global Changes, bro.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=710995662 Nathan Paul

    For those not paying attention.  Double still gets invincibility on her lk and mk hornet bombers.

  • Pingback: UltraChen TV’s Tuesday Show Streaming Live – Mike Z Visits with Patched Skullgirls Build, Wednesday Night Fights Match Analysis « Shoryuken

  • JELIFISH19

    ” Assists can now be called six frames before you can normally act.”

    Is that good? It sounds bad to me

  • JELIFISH19

    ” Assists can now be called six frames before you can normally act.”

    Is that good? It sounds bad to me

  • http://twitter.com/Christianbamy Christian Amy

    they don’t actually come out until you can act. Im missing what the harm is if there is any.

  • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

    ShoutOuts to that RACIST MIKE Z saying characters were too BLACK then saying (in a deep voice) YO YO YO with UltraChen sitting adjacent in awkward silence.
    If you wanted to prove you had a few screws loose that put it over the top!

    • Zyrus

      Shoutouts to Bill O’Reilly Jr here.

  • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

    Double’s HB is like Pre-Patch Pheonix Wright’s Turnabout Mode ‘Break the witness’ without any effort to get to.
    But HB is 100% horizontal.

  • http://twitter.com/Combo_Knight Davonte Jeffers

    So, As a solo Double I think my time is up. I was already reset heavy. but HK inv. Kept me out of alot of trouble that solo characters face. not to say it was a saving grace because it could be punished painfully, but it’s definitely gives off that “unwinnable” vibe now that it’s gone. Peacock is now going to be a problem and now she can’t be TOD’d because ips changes. which now means I have to move to parasoul which really sucks.

    • http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy T.

       Im guessing you use Wesker, Spencer and Woverine in UMVC3 (EZ win-Types)

      • http://twitter.com/Christianbamy Christian Amy

         Jesus, Wendy T. troll harder lol.

  • Pingback: Additional Skullgirls Patch Change Notes From UltraChen TV « Shoryuken

  • http://www.facebook.com/victoly Matthew Taylor

    Forced to change the game?

    Hold the fucking phone, stop the goddamn presses?  Who in the HELL is to tell him how to make his own goddamn game?  That is simply not right and needs to be fixed right away.

    If a change isn’t necessary, it isn’t necessary and that’s that.

  • Pingback: Near Final Skullgirls Patch Change List from Mike Z at The Mix-Up « Shoryuken

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