Seth Killian Talks To Kotaku in Defense of Infinite Combos

by d3v on April 18th, 2012 at 10:30 pm

Infinite combos, love them or hate them, are something that’s almost unavoidable in many fighting games. Whether one as outrageous as Street Fighter X Tekken or one that’s as restrained as Street Fighter IV, you just can’t seem to get away from them. Kotaku‘s Stephen Totilo recently got to talk to Capcom’s Seth Killian about why infinites aren’t as bad as most people think.

Seth explains that infinites, far from being an indicator of a bad game, can actually indicate that a game is good – because it suggests a certain amount of freedom in the game’s system that allows for some creativity.

I take them as a necessary sign of a good game, because what it suggests is a certain amount of creativity and a certain amount of freedom to do things that the developer didn’t intend. That’s one of the best things about a combat system.

Seth also explains the competitive mentality of trying to push and break the system to find these combos.

For a lot of players, including guys like me, the first thing I do when I sit down with a fighting game is [try to find out] what’s the stupidest thing I can do to the opponent? What’s the worst thing I can do? ‘Oh, this move looks like it might combo back into itself. That’s going to be a bug. I’m going to go right for that.’ For a lot of players, there’s an attraction. The infinite combo is sort of like the goal.

Of course, not everyone enjoys infinites, and they move on to talk about mechanics like damage and hitstun scaling. Here, Seth does his best to break down the scaling systems of Capcom games like Marvel vs. Capcom 3 and Street Fighter X Tekken.

The most interesting bit however has to be near the end where Seth talks about what he considers a good infinite combo. Here he brings up the example of El Fuerte’s “Run, Stop, Fierce” loop,m which exists in every incarnation of Street Fighter IV. According to Seth, an infinite like this is good because it’s hard enough to do and involves a lot of risk, yet at the same time gives the character a good offensive option.

“We left it in,” Killian said. “We felt this was a useful tool for El Fuerte. The executional bar is quite high…that is to say it’s hard to do, it’s very difficult. There are combos that are hard to do and you’ll struggle to keep doing them continuously. You may put yourself at some risk if you’re going for an infinite combo and drop it.”

You can read the entire article over at Kotaku.

Yuko Asho

In other words, Capcom doesn’t care to keep their games balanced or fair.
- http://twitter.com/BigguDani Danny Alvarado
  
  And people played their games for years and still do. Hell, imagine if nobody figured out if Mag, Sent, Storm were great together back in the day? We’d be playing Iceman teams and shit. The only reason all these fighting games are unbalanced is because we exposed the system. We stretched the game to its limits and it was fun. We made it unbalanced. Capcom devs didn’t say “Yeah let’s make mvc2 incredibly crazy with infinites up the ass” “Oh, O.Sagat! Everyone is gonna love this fucker.”
  
  Infinites or not, if the game is good and you enjoy it then keep playing. Keep stretching the limits of your play and limits of the games system.
  - Anonymous
    
    Marvel turned into what it was because that’s the way we liked it. After the travesty that was the attempt to balance MSHvSF, Capcom realized that we liked our broken shit in Marvel. Hence MvC and MvC2 being some of the most awesomely broken games ever made.
    
    Same reason that MvC3 is a touch of death game – because folks were writing about how Marvel was supposed to be a high stakes game.
    
    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.ph…10-years-of-marvel-front-page-article.101424/
    - Anonymous
      
      MvC3 Is only a touch of death when you throw in a scrubby comeback mechanic.
      
      MvC2 took work to OCV an entire team.
      - http://twitter.com/iTzKayrohJones Brandyn Harris
        
        WTF? ToDs happen without x-factor dude.
      - Anonymous
        
        Show me a match video.
      - http://twitter.com/downback129 CJ Araneta
        
        @MuhhPhukka:disqus http://youtu.be/885ZvC3mCtw
      - http://twitter.com/downback129 CJ Araneta
        
        @MuhhPhukka:disqus http://youtu.be/885ZvC3mCtw
      - http://twitter.com/downback129 CJ Araneta
        
        @MuhhPhukka:disqus http://youtu.be/885ZvC3mCtw
      - http://www.facebook.com/thisisnotras Rasean Frazier
        
        I’m surprised nobody realized that. Most ANY team can do TOD with enough bar – that was one of the first things said when UMVC came out.
        
        Wasn’t that why they decreased the amount of bar gain during most combos? But either way, lots of characters are still killing you in the course of a single combo – hell, Viiper with like two bars and good assists takes 1m by herself, without DHC.
      - Anonymous
        
        @MuhhPhukka:disqus
        
        Have you seen any of Marlin Pie’s matches?
      - Anonymous
        
        @MuhhPhukka:disqus
        
        Have you seen any of Marlin Pie’s matches?
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
        
        Sometimes people gotta think before they speak…
      - Anonymous
        
        um.. have you ever played MVC3 or UMVC3?
        
        off the top of my head, here are some of the characters that can pretty easily Touch-of-Death 1 million health (depending on what assists / DHC you have) without using x-factor and starting with 1 bar (aka “the start of the match”):
        
        Chris, Haggar, Spencer, Nemesis, Viper, Zero, Hulk, Doom, Vergil, Wolverine, Dormammu, Iron Fist, Thor, Nova, Wesker, Task
        
        i’m sure there are more. but the point is: you have no idea what you’re talking about
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
        
        Sooooooooooo true.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
        
        Sooooooooooo true.
    - http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-McFadden/596901149 Mike McFadden
      
      I’m a marvel 1 player, and I can tell you right now. If MvC1 wasn’t
      broken with infinites and 200% combos, and uncombo glitches. I probably
      wouldn’t play it. The fact that you can lose the entire game off of 1
      little mistake, makes the game WAY more exciting than it would be
      otherwise. And MvC1 is FAR from a scrubs game. All of the infinites
      require at least a moderate level of execution with the exception of a
      few. The game has mixups, and advanced strategies, a character who can’t
      be combo’d, etc. I don’t think the people who made MvC3 were qualified
      to do so. That game honestly looks like some tatsunoko kiddie game, with
      kiddie graphics and kiddie music. Marvel 1 is hardcore as fuck.
    - http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-McFadden/596901149 Mike McFadden
      
      I’m a marvel 1 player, and I can tell you right now. If MvC1 wasn’t
      broken with infinites and 200% combos, and uncombo glitches. I probably
      wouldn’t play it. The fact that you can lose the entire game off of 1
      little mistake, makes the game WAY more exciting than it would be
      otherwise. And MvC1 is FAR from a scrubs game. All of the infinites
      require at least a moderate level of execution with the exception of a
      few. The game has mixups, and advanced strategies, a character who can’t
      be combo’d, etc. I don’t think the people who made MvC3 were qualified
      to do so. That game honestly looks like some tatsunoko kiddie game, with
      kiddie graphics and kiddie music. Marvel 1 is hardcore as fuck.
      - Anonymous
        
        You do realize that the designer for MvC3 isthe same guy who did the previous ones (Neo_G Ishizawa).
      - Anonymous
        
        You do realize that the designer for MvC3 isthe same guy who did the previous ones (Neo_G Ishizawa).
      - Anonymous
        
        You do realize that the designer for MvC3 isthe same guy who did the previous ones (Neo_G Ishizawa).
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Luther-Amrich/1323893778 Luther Amrich
    
    i agree dan, it’s interesting to note that the term “infinite combo” only comes up in 2D fighters, there is no real “infinite” in the 3D fighter world. Hwarang from tekken 5 DR has a life combo i believe (and he may have it on other versions, im not sure), voldo in SC4 could almost do a life combo (B4 it was patched), VF has no life combos, not sure about earlier 3D fighters like bloody roar. im sure DOA has no life combos either (correct me if im wrong).
    
    it’s also interesting to me that a lot of ppl complain about infinite combos (like me), but unlike me they don’t want to step into the 3D fighting realm, it’s like ppl are scared of the complexity of 3D fighters, or they just want to be able to keep you down with infinites, flashy special moves, or they just want to watch cartoons all day.
    
    Now don’t get me wrong, I like and play both types of fighters, but to me a 3D fighter has more to it of course: move list (all chars on any 3D fighter have on average 60+ moves, sidestep (to background AND foreground), no infinite combos (very rare, if any life combos), ability to always have an avenue out of trouble, no block damage (so blocking is actually viable during clutch situations and you can’t just cheap out someones life bar with block damage you actually have to WORK to kill them), etc, whereas i notice in a 2D fighter alot of that stuff is not present, especially # of moves and being cheeped out of a win because you couldn’t block anymore.
    
    It seems to me that you cannot group all fighters into a whole and say that they are unbalanced in this particular aspect, also if your that angry at infinite, come to the 3D world. If you want to talk about “real fight simulation” a 3D fighter is the most real you will get besides VR, an actual fight changes from second to second, a 2D fighter is like a cartoon fight, it doesn’t really change that much, the same moves get seen over and over, the same combos over and over, etc.Besides the most moves any char has had in a 2D fighter is what dante with 40+, maybe 50. any other 2D fighting char has on average 20 moves maybe? that translates into only so many possible combos.
    
    dude try hwarang with 160+ moves, try maxi with 70+ moves, try any DOA, VF, SC, or tekken char with 60 to 100+ moves, try mastering that 1st then talk about how good you are at a fighting game, how versatile you are at a fighter, at any fighter, but don’t just play 2D and think your the shit at fighting games.
- Chris Riccobono
  
  Lol. I don’t think even d3v read the original article. Seth spends most of his time explaining how most infinites suck.
  
  “For the record, he’s not proud of the infinites found in Street Fighter X Tekken. “These things are in there, and we wish they weren’t, so we’re going to take them out,” he said.”
  
  The Shoryuken circle jerk: video game tabloid Kotaku posts misleading article, lazy Shoryuken editor posts it on front page to get 30 knee jerk comments from other lazy people.
  
  /thread
- Chris Riccobono
  
  Lol. I don’t think even d3v read the original article. Seth spends most of his time explaining how most infinites suck.
  
  “For the record, he’s not proud of the infinites found in Street Fighter X Tekken. “These things are in there, and we wish they weren’t, so we’re going to take them out,” he said.”
  
  The Shoryuken circle jerk: video game tabloid Kotaku posts misleading article, lazy Shoryuken editor posts it on front page to get 30 knee jerk comments from other lazy people.
  
  /thread
  - Anonymous
    
    It’s called having a “difference of opinion” than Seth, because personally, I am fine with infinites in certain types of fighters.
    - Chris Riccobono
      
      Well lets be honest, the words Seth Killian + just about anything would have gotten replies. Your synopsis is pretty far off from the article content though. Cherry picking if you will.
      
      This will generate a lot of comments yes. But are those the kind of comments you want?
      
      I don’t want to put this all on you however, Kotaku is the most guilty offender here, since Totilo named the article -despite- what Seth said instead of -because- of what he said. That site has become notorious for this sort of thing.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Stephen-Totilo/621078884 Stephen Totilo
        
        I named the article based on what he said, which was that infinites, despite often being a problem and despite being something that many people automatically say are always bad, aren’t always bad.
      - Chris Riccobono
        
        Haha… you got some brass balls coming in here Totilo after writing that article. If you’re looking for any kind of agreement from me, trust me, you are not going to get it.
      - Chris Riccobono
        
        Haha… you got some brass balls coming in here Totilo after writing that article. If you’re looking for any kind of agreement from me, trust me, you are not going to get it.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Stephen-Totilo/621078884 Stephen Totilo
        
        I named the article based on what he said, which was that infinites, despite often being a problem and despite being something that many people automatically say are always bad, aren’t always bad.
      - http://profile.yahoo.com/JTUGMGR7PNRH2657J7J5CR4QEE Toto Esesoyo
        
        Good point! I guess its based on one or two editors opinoins rather then facts! so seth wants and likes these inf’s in the game, Good job SRK Good job!
      - http://profile.yahoo.com/JTUGMGR7PNRH2657J7J5CR4QEE Toto Esesoyo
        
        Good point! I guess its based on one or two editors opinoins rather then facts! so seth wants and likes these inf’s in the game, Good job SRK Good job!
  - Anonymous
    
    it was posted on SRK so you wouldn’t have to give Kotaku any hits
- http://www.facebook.com/philip1718 John Philip Yu
  
  read it again…”and a certain amount of freedom to do things that the developer didn’t intend”
- http://www.facebook.com/philip1718 John Philip Yu
  
  read it again…”and a certain amount of freedom to do things that the developer didn’t intend”
- http://www.facebook.com/philip1718 John Philip Yu
  
  read it again…”and a certain amount of freedom to do things that the developer didn’t intend”
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Stephen-Totilo/621078884 Stephen Totilo
  
  Not at all. Please read the article. Seth is quite clear about which infinites Capcom isn’t proud of (including all of the ones in SF X Tekken).
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
  
  What a silly comment.
Yuko Asho

In other words, Capcom doesn’t care to keep their games balanced or fair.
http://www.facebook.com/Gimpyfish Tony Gimpyfish Dennis

the straw that broke the camels back for me was raven’s jab in sfxt

3 frame jab

+4 on block

alright capcom that’s enough

*downloads skullgirls*
- Anonymous
  
  CVS2 sakura crouching jab is 3f startup, +7 on block. And her walkspeed is better. And her throw range is longer.
  - http://www.facebook.com/Gimpyfish Tony Gimpyfish Dennis
    
    But i’m relatively new to traditional fighting games, so i didn’t play that ;P
    
    it’s not an issue of capcom being different from old capcom to me, it’s more “capcom keeps messing up and i keep giving them my money”
    
    as i said, that’s the straw that broke the camels back, not a huge issue, but there are just some really bad decisions being made in a lot of these games.
    
    fighting games are bigger again, we actually have options and choices to make…. so let’s start making the right choices on our own until they start making the right choices.
    - Anonymous
      
      I understand. I was just making the point that a jab being more + on block than its startup isnt necessarily broken, judging by how CVS2 is certainly not dominated by jab pressure to the extent that SFxT currently is. Although, i am not sure why that is. (I am also not very knowledgeable/experienced about CVS2) Individual aspects depend on their ecosystem.
      
      Skullgirls is really fun and interesting so far for me. MVC2 esque games arent for everyone though.
      - http://www.facebook.com/Gimpyfish Tony Gimpyfish Dennis
        
        not broken
        
        just stupid
        
        hahaha
      - Anonymous
        
        CvS2 isn’t dominated by jab pressure as much as it’s dominated by Sakura jab pressure (into ShoShoSho).
      - http://www.facebook.com/thisisnotras Rasean Frazier
        
        The reason why SFXT is dominated by jab pressure is because no one wants to get opened up. In CVS2, getting hit by a jab meant a combo… But usually didn’t equal half your life bar. You had to get by something way more mean for that, most of the time. But in SFXT, when you finally get hit by that jab they can probably link it into a cr. forward or strong because a 3f/+4 jab is probably like +5-+6 on hit… And from there, they’ll take massive amounts of damage.
        
        In short – the risk reward is just way higher in the reward department.
      - Anonymous
        
        Good point. Thanks.
    - Anonymous
      
      ^ this
    - http://www.facebook.com/stupidistehsuck Mike Brown
      
      A problem with this is that you’re saying someone else is doing it wrong, while explaining that you’re relatively new to traditional fighters.
      
      That kinda means you don’t have the know-how to dictate what’s correct or not.
      - Anonymous
        
        because “relatively new” means he’s been playing for less than a year, and is incapable of having any kind of informed opinion on game design.
      - http://twitter.com/OneMonth2live best bipson
        
        pre 2009 if you whined about something. People would ask to play against you, and have you show them why the tactic is cheap/broken/whatever.
        
        If we did that now, 70% of the current players would retire from embarrassment.
- Yuko Asho
  
  Hey, great to see you joining the rest of us in the fluffy clouds and bright light of the non-Capcom gaming realm. You should try some KoF, maybe some Tekken or Soul Calibur… Seriously, though, it’s fun here.
  
  *Bounces around on a fluffy white cloud*
  - Anonymous
    
    Get it right, call the cloud Nimbus!
- Anonymous
  
  Irrelevant. Cammy’s jabs are the same frames, Rolentos are just as tightly spaced (4F startup, +5 on block). SFxT went back to Capcom’s roots when designing these versions of Cammy and Rolento.
- http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1092954902 Drew Simpson
  
  you should be buying skullgirls regardless
- Anonymous
  
  This and everyone who liked it are clearly people who keep losing to scrubby Ravens online. It’s not hard, folks.
  
  One hates to say “L2P”…
Anonymous

“alot” – Kotaku
- Anonymous
  
  ”
  “alot” – Kotaku” -twotonetwo
Anonymous

“alot” – Kotaku
http://twitter.com/Little_GotenSRK Little_GotenSRK

Seth Killian doesn’t necessarily represent Capcom’s opinion, you guys know this right? This is the same dude who also wrote the domination write-up, which everyone on this site should read at least once.
http://twitter.com/Little_GotenSRK Little_GotenSRK

Seth Killian doesn’t necessarily represent Capcom’s opinion, you guys know this right? This is the same dude who also wrote the domination write-up, which everyone on this site should read at least once.
- http://www.facebook.com/MR.BLACK187 Vinson Scram Jones Cole
  
  How can I find that?
  - http://twitter.com/Little_GotenSRK Little_GotenSRK
    
    http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?forums/domination-101.98/
    
    ^^For players wanting to be able to truly compete. S-Kill’s threads are must-reads.
    - http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KNE2ENW4IHV62JBTZVDK6MBIOQ Daniel
      
      i love the one on cheapness
    - http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KNE2ENW4IHV62JBTZVDK6MBIOQ Daniel
      
      i love the one on cheapness
    - http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KNE2ENW4IHV62JBTZVDK6MBIOQ Daniel
      
      i love the one on cheapness
- http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio
  
  He’d better represent Capcom’s opinion, that’s kind of his job.
http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy Thompson

Seth basically said, “What’s the most annoying thing I can do to my opponents.”
Sounds like a great guy….
”what’s the stupidest thing I can do to the opponent? What’s the worst thing I can do? ”
I’d FIRE this guy in a second!!
It sounds like he wants to make games where people INTENTIONALLY rage instead of making them respectable or fun for both people.
- http://twitter.com/BigguDani Danny Alvarado
  
  Making people rage is respectable. And Fun!
  For example playing lame. It’s a respectable play style. It makes my opponent rage, therefore forcing him/her to make a mistake. And it’s fun.
  - http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy Thompson
    
    Playing lame or being aggressive is a style and has nothing to do with intentionally making certain people do massively long loops off a random touch.
    Aka Magneto
    Rage is fun?
    How about One Hit Death for Free…only one person has this ability and it’s instant and unblockable and goes full screen.(H&V)
    A character that has infinite health, you can only kill him by doing a 500 hit combo!
    - http://www.facebook.com/Trance.S.Core Technika Core
      
      You should never touch Guilty Gear, since some characters can combo into their Instant Kill, which makes the game “unfair” when it really doesn’t.
      - http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy Thompson
        
        Toki – Hokuto No Ken
      - Anonymous
        
        we need that game for xbl
    - http://twitter.com/onReload onReload
      
      he specifically said that these are the types of things that aren’t done intentionally. and it’s nothing like a one hit death. and in both GG and HnK, it’s not remotely easy to get the instant kill off.
      
      if you don’t believe in keeping your opponent in fear of messing up, you already lost
    - http://twitter.com/onReload onReload
      
      he specifically said that these are the types of things that aren’t done intentionally. and it’s nothing like a one hit death. and in both GG and HnK, it’s not remotely easy to get the instant kill off.
      
      if you don’t believe in keeping your opponent in fear of messing up, you already lost
    - Anonymous
      
      Learn to block or stay free.
- Anonymous
  
  you must be new here. this is how many strong players think.
- Quintus Havis
  
  What? That’s how games are played competitively. Tokido isn’t called the Cheapest Man Alive for nothing. If you wanna play seriously, you find ways to edge out an advantage and win. It’s fun to battle against that stuff.
  
  Maybe you just like pretty colors and flashing lights. Which is cool, but it doesn’t mean that the games that aren’t like that aren’t respectable.
- http://www.facebook.com/Trance.S.Core Technika Core
  
  You might not be having fun when you’re having your ass handed to you by some intricate stuff, but why else did you think the training room exists? You find something broken, or at least really good, you practice it until you’re efficient and confident enough to use it in an actual situation.
- Anonymous
  
  Welcome to SRK, this is how most of us here think.
- Anonymous
  
  Well, in the current FGC case, those people are the ones that find the broken and cheap stuff that gets patched out. It’s not necessarily that he wants to make the games where people rage, he wants to get the most out of the system that he can.
  
  Plus, its S-Kill, they aren’t gonna fire him. He’s like the Jesus of Capcom and he probably relates to us the most on that team.
- Anonymous
  
  You might not be in the right place buddy.
- Anonymous
  
  You might not be in the right place buddy.
- Mash Harder
  
  Seth is correct, that is the goal. Find something stupid, and run with it.
http://twitter.com/PaiZuriSan Wendy Thompson

Seth basically said, “What’s the most annoying thing I can do to my opponents.”
Sounds like a great guy….
”what’s the stupidest thing I can do to the opponent? What’s the worst thing I can do? ”
I’d FIRE this guy in a second!!
It sounds like he wants to make games where people INTENTIONALLY rage instead of making them respectable or fun for both people.
http://twitter.com/pandamanana Tom 紳

Why would Seth Killian talk to Kotaku? Screw Kotaku.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Stephen-Totilo/621078884 Stephen Totilo
  
  He and I talk all the time. He’s always a fascinating interview.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Stephen-Totilo/621078884 Stephen Totilo
  
  He and I talk all the time. He’s always a fascinating interview.
Anonymous

There is a difference between freedom from interesting loopholes/bugs and some of the lazy shit in SFxT. Those dont really indicate freedom/depth.
Anonymous

There is a difference between freedom from interesting loopholes/bugs and some of the lazy shit in SFxT. Those dont really indicate freedom/depth.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Yan-Zhao/10516382 Yan Zhao

Infinite makes a good game now? Yeah ok. Lets give everyone 1 frame jabs with 100 frame hit/blockstun and 1 frame recovery! What a great game that’ll be!

Oh wait SFxT already does that, kekeke.
- YourAshyAss_Elbows
  
  got dat mothafucka LOL. i abuse the shit out of cammys st.LP lol
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Yan-Zhao/10516382 Yan Zhao
    
    Add Raven and Rolento and you got a sure win jab team~
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Yan-Zhao/10516382 Yan Zhao
    
    Add Raven and Rolento and you got a sure win jab team~
- Anonymous
  
  CvS2 beat SFxT to this by a number of years. SFIV in general is the rarity where most pokes are unsafe in the name of letting scrubs mash reversals out of blockstrings/frametraps.
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Yan-Zhao/10516382 Yan Zhao
    
    At the very least, CVS2 was a hell of a gem of a fighting game.
    
    SFxT is…a piece of work in a different way heh.
    
    To be honest I didnt find Jab pressure nearly as bad as it was in CVS2 as it was in SFxT.
    - Anonymous
      
      Jab pressure wasn’t as dominant because of roll cancelling. Can’t really pressure when you can make every move invincible.
    - Anonymous
      
      Jab pressure wasn’t as dominant because of roll cancelling. Can’t really pressure when you can make every move invincible.
      - Anonymous
        
        Thats untrue, while leaving gaps can get you killed, its not ONLY RC. You can Uppercut through them, Super through gaps, there are universal defense mechanisms (Roll, Parry, JD, Dodge, etc), and among the most important thing is the pushback for doing a blockstring.
        
        The distance being pushed back is much farther in CvS2. So while something gave you +4, you are also farther away. Have you seen Rolento do his jab pressure in SFxT? Theres less distance pushed back compared to CvS2, and theres less options for the guy blocking to deal with it. The risk and reward heavily rewards SFxT more than CvS2 as well, with a jab hitting = launcher combo that anyone can do without meter.
        
        So yes RC, but not ONLY RC.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Yan-Zhao/10516382 Yan Zhao
        
        You actually bring up a pretty damn good point that I overlooked. Thats probably the reason why I never felt jab pressure was a big deal in CVS2, now I realized why, I get pushed back so far that the frame advantage on it gets moot after a few jabs.
        
        SFxT on the other hand, Im locked in it forever till they jump cancel it (yeah give them more tools) and repeat, or grabs me. If my character dont have a reversal, well, GG.
      - Anonymous
        
        Thats untrue, while leaving gaps can get you killed, its not ONLY RC. You can Uppercut through them, Super through gaps, there are universal defense mechanisms (Roll, Parry, JD, Dodge, etc), and among the most important thing is the pushback for doing a blockstring.
        
        The distance being pushed back is much farther in CvS2. So while something gave you +4, you are also farther away. Have you seen Rolento do his jab pressure in SFxT? Theres less distance pushed back compared to CvS2, and theres less options for the guy blocking to deal with it. The risk and reward heavily rewards SFxT more than CvS2 as well, with a jab hitting = launcher combo that anyone can do without meter.
        
        So yes RC, but not ONLY RC.
    - Anonymous
      
      SFxT might be a “piece of work”, but it still could be called a gem.
      
      …get it? :C
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Yan-Zhao/10516382 Yan Zhao
        
        I was waiting for someone to make that joke haha
    - Anonymous
      
      SFxT might be a “piece of work”, but it still could be called a gem.
      
      …get it? :C
http://twitter.com/AzureRevolver ツンデレ Azure

Did he really just try to defend Infinites ?
- Anonymous
  
  He’s just pointing out something most of us already know and believe in.
Anonymous

Bullshit.
Anonymous

So allowing infinites makes a good game? Looks like Skullgirls is in trouble…
- Anonymous
  
  Fuck that. I don’t want to be killed off by some lame ass loop. Infinite Combo Protection all day, son.
  - Thomaz Barros
    
    To be fair, some Cerebella loops before the ICP start working does some retarded damage
    - Anonymous
      
      IPS, Infinite Prevention System, not Clowns.
    - Anonymous
      
      IPS, Infinite Prevention System, not Clowns.
    - Anonymous
      
      IPS, Infinite Prevention System, not Clowns.
http://www.facebook.com/illness690 John Taylor

I’m assuming none of you played MVC2.
- Anonymous
  
  People don’t know good games anymore.
  - http://www.facebook.com/tomiko.komito Tomiko Komito
    
    mvc2 wasn’t good at all, that’s why only usa was playing that shit,
    just broken stuff out the ass.
    it was a fun game, not a good one.
  - http://twitter.com/OneMonth2live best bipson
    
    People are still salty about mvc2 getting released on xbl/psn. They probably thought they were good then got triple perfected. Now, mvc2 is the worst game ever, because the big bad top tiers wouldn’t let them do their shitty jill combo or team super with iron man.
    
    The people who whine about characters in mvc2 wouldn’t beat demonhyo’s low tier team in mvc2 with sakura. Forget learning anything, I’ll just say something is unfair.
    
    I don’t have money? Well, it’s not my fault, it’s the governments. Working is unfair. Someone went to college and makes more money than me? That’s unfair.
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
    
    Maybe that’s because good game=opinion? Just because they don’t like what you like doesn’t mean “people don’t know good games”, it means they like what they like, just like you like what you like.
- http://www.facebook.com/UNdesTROY Troy Dalton
  
  I played it until the roster was parred down to 8 usable characters who I didn’t want to learn the loops for and at that point I said “fuck it.”
  
  Just because people played the game for 10 years doesn’t make it objectively good. People have listened to Mariah Carey for longer than that, but her music still sounds like a wet fart. MvC2 was fun for awhile, but it was also silly as fuck at high level play, and that’s off-putting.
- http://www.facebook.com/UNdesTROY Troy Dalton
  
  I played it until the roster was parred down to 8 usable characters who I didn’t want to learn the loops for and at that point I said “fuck it.”
  
  Just because people played the game for 10 years doesn’t make it objectively good. People have listened to Mariah Carey for longer than that, but her music still sounds like a wet fart. MvC2 was fun for awhile, but it was also silly as fuck at high level play, and that’s off-putting.
  - http://www.facebook.com/illness690 John Taylor
    
    I agree, it did get a bit silly.
- http://www.facebook.com/UNdesTROY Troy Dalton
  
  I played it until the roster was parred down to 8 usable characters who I didn’t want to learn the loops for and at that point I said “fuck it.”
  
  Just because people played the game for 10 years doesn’t make it objectively good. People have listened to Mariah Carey for longer than that, but her music still sounds like a wet fart. MvC2 was fun for awhile, but it was also silly as fuck at high level play, and that’s off-putting.
Anonymous

I believe the exact point in time where most folks realized this was back in MSHvSF, when Capcom tried to limit the system to prevent the brokenness of XvSF. The problem is, by taking out the brokenness of XvSF, we ended up with a boring game that nobody liked. And whatever balance that was achieved was ruined when it was eventually broken (Wolverine speed up super redizzy infinite FTW).
http://www.facebook.com/people/Will-Forcier/100000521348977 Will Forcier

Cvs 2 isn’t as dominated by jab pressure as sfxt is because of roll canceling
http://www.facebook.com/people/Will-Forcier/100000521348977 Will Forcier

Cvs 2 isn’t as dominated by jab pressure as sfxt is because of roll canceling
Anonymous

Ugh, scrubs…. ….Dont start bashing stuff you werent around for. Hell, I was barely around for the “Cable Wars” but to be honest, as cheap as I thought that was, once I actually used Team Scrub against another Team Scrub, I had the most fun in my LIFE.

The thing with infinites is, they can apply to certain games and be extremely fun. Like MvC2, where most of you are complaining about characters you cant win with, but if you used the top 8, it was a VERY interesting game. It’s fun to open people up and basically freestyle on them.

Also, making you noobs rage is fun, and SHOULD make you want to get even. It helps metagames develop and makes a name for you if you’re into that thing
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Yan-Zhao/10516382 Yan Zhao
  
  Um, no. Things you consider fun isn’t always true for other people. Its called an opinion. People should not be forced to use characters they dont like just to have even a 1% chance at winning in MvC2′s case. And when you got a roster of 46+ characters you should not be limited to only 5.
  
  All the BS that MvC2 contains doesn’t help the metagame develop, it just makes people drop the game period and categorize it as a shitty unplayable game, which you know, every single country did except the Americans.
  
  But hey, Americans thinks that unbalanced mess is the best fighting game ever, so it clearly must be, as no one else plays it and all. They clearly knows better.
  - Anonymous
    
    Singapore and the Philippines played MvC2. Heck, for a few years, the Philippines was better than the US at it.
  - http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X
    
    Winning meant more back then than now. If you weren’t trying to beat it, you were using it. You picked/played bad characters because you figured out a way to beat people with them.
    
    Europe loves Soul Cal, Japan loves VSav, GG and 3S, Mexico loves KoF
    
    Every region is different.
    - http://www.facebook.com/people/Yan-Zhao/10516382 Yan Zhao
      
      Even though every region has games that they love and are superior in, most of those games still gets played in other regions and are still considered legit fighting games.
      
      For example Mexico loves KoF but its still dominant in China, Korea and Japan.
      
      MvC2 on the other hand….
  - http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X
    
    Winning meant more back then than now. If you weren’t trying to beat it, you were using it. You picked/played bad characters because you figured out a way to beat people with them.
    
    Europe loves Soul Cal, Japan loves VSav, GG and 3S, Mexico loves KoF
    
    Every region is different.
  - Anonymous
    
    You know I used Rogue for the most part, right? What I’m saying is, instead of crying over stuff, people should develop their own tech to beat stuff. Most of you who whine about character balance and infinites bring nothing to the community and don’t really make anything on your own. And then you complain about bandwagons, when you’re essentially doing the same thing.
  - Anonymous
    
    You know I used Rogue for the most part, right? What I’m saying is, instead of crying over stuff, people should develop their own tech to beat stuff. Most of you who whine about character balance and infinites bring nothing to the community and don’t really make anything on your own. And then you complain about bandwagons, when you’re essentially doing the same thing.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Yan-Zhao/10516382 Yan Zhao
  
  Um, no. Things you consider fun isn’t always true for other people. Its called an opinion. People should not be forced to use characters they dont like just to have even a 1% chance at winning in MvC2′s case. And when you got a roster of 46+ characters you should not be limited to only 5.
  
  All the BS that MvC2 contains doesn’t help the metagame develop, it just makes people drop the game period and categorize it as a shitty unplayable game, which you know, every single country did except the Americans.
  
  But hey, Americans thinks that unbalanced mess is the best fighting game ever, so it clearly must be, as no one else plays it and all. They clearly knows better.
- Anonymous
  
  That fact that you had to abandon characters you liked in favor of what everyone was doing isn’t really helping your case.
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
    
    Thank you so much! With Sirlin’s logic you are a scrub for pointing that out, too. I’m going to play the game the way I want, not streamline my style to win off of something anybody can obviously do if I just switched people and got better. That’s how you get large ass casts with people only picking 10 characters because they are the only good ones.
    
    Nobody wants to get good, they just want to win. It’s much easier to just Wolvie/Wesker/Vergil it up, or use some similar dominating team to get the job done. Vergil is the only one of those 3 that actually takes some twerking to win with, and even he doesn’t have to do much. For the people who play these characters because they like them, that’s fine. For the chunk of people who pick them because that’s the only way they can win, pathetic.
    - Anonymous
      
      No, no one wants to get good. That’s why there’s so much complaining all over the place. Personally, I like when people flock to a small percent, because I use BOTH characters I like AND the ones that are at the top. You cant win with crappy characters ESPECIALLY if you don’t know what your opponent is thinking.
      
      That’s why people say to USE top tiers, even if you don’t like them, you still learn more about how they work and their weaknesses and such.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
        
        I really like the way you think lol
      - Anonymous
        
        But yeah, srsly though, I know you don’t exactly agree with Sirlin, but For the most part he is right. He’s not saying you should play to win. He’s not saying pick top tiers. He’s telling you that if stuffs in the game, and can be used, just let it rock.
        
        If I’m using Sean in 3s, and Im up against Chun, who can pretty much completely out poke me, I’m not gonna holler and cry about her out-prioritizing me, I’m gonna deal with it and figure out how to get around it. Though, if it was 3s, tbh, I’d be using Ken. I always use Ken. I just like the character and have used him since I started SF, JUST because he had that extra roll in that throw of his.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
        
        @DaRk_XyStEr:disqus
        
        LOL at the Ken love. That was like the only thing different about him in SF2. I play Akuma in 3S and I can’t do anything outside of what’s in trial mode, really (first time owning the game is SF3SOE, no DC). The reason I used the example mostly for Marvel because it’s the only fighter that annoys me with such things.
        
        If I’m just getting beat by the point character I don’t care, but I really can’t stand to get hit by assists that still come out even when you hit the point character and that type of bs starts costing me matches. I guess it’s karma for me using Psylocke’s Psyblade assist in that manner on Marvel 2. In all fairness though, I was playing with Ken/Hulk, and sometimes subbing her out for Cyclops’ Gene Splice assist, so it’s not like it was devastating or something. Well it could easily lead to some kills for Ken, but Hulk can only do so much outside of Double Crushing in MvC2.
      - Anonymous
        
        Akuma is tricky to learn, but fun to play. If you havent already, you should watch Kuroda’s Akuma. It’s sorta hard to get into a game that’s been around for 10 years though.
        
        And you kidding me? Assists are the greatest thing ever. You play wrong, and I can kill off Sentinel or Storm and NEVER have to worry about dealing with them ever? Which meant a lot to me, since I was using Rogue/Storm/Doom. Yes I know, I’m a cheapo for using storm, but I really like the way the team works. Assists are best viewed as a special attack though, since that’s basically what they are. Once you can anticipate it, then its easier to react and kill them. Trust me, even though I got storm on my team, its VERY important to be able to predict things. I guess I’d be considered cheap too though, since my whole game plan for rogue vs MSP is to snap storm in, power up, then infinite the whole team, but the skill needed to set up that infinite sorta makes up for the that. (well, its more like a loop, but still does the same thing >.>)
        
        I was also trying Strider/Doom, but I’m no Clockw0rk, lol
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
        
        @DaRk_XyStEr:disqus
        
        LOL I hear ya. Destroying assists is some of the sweetest tasting poetic justice you could ever dream for. I guess it’s just the idea of getting hit by a character the player has no control over, aside from summoning them. It makes me feel like I’m getting my ass beat by AI, and I HATE AI.
        
        Actually, I never really hated MSS/P teams that much. They rush you down the whole match. One Gene splice assist and Mags will easily find himself on the business side of a double crush. Sentinel HAS to fly to be effective…Tatsu assist-Double Crush. Storm is the only one who scared me with her lightning attacks easily crossing Hulk up. Not that I just dominated them, but I was never too intimidated or bothered by them. As you can Imagine, I hated Cable because Cable DOES NOT approach you at all. I did love how most online Cables go into panic mode once Hulk is like half-screen away. A random scimitar is always his downfall.
      - Anonymous
        
        Yeah, Keepaway is something to deal with. I tend to do it moreso in UMVC3 though against hulk, cuz I suck at dealing with armor. But yeah, Using cable, you have to know WHEN is a good time to scimitar. Not being a Cable main myself, I have no idea when that is, lol.
  - Anonymous
    
    The fact that I learned I liked using other characters more helped my game. You fight fire with fire, learn how it works, then you can figure out how to beat it and apply it to the characters you like
  - Anonymous
    
    The fact that I learned I liked using other characters more helped my game. You fight fire with fire, learn how it works, then you can figure out how to beat it and apply it to the characters you like
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KNE2ENW4IHV62JBTZVDK6MBIOQ Daniel

I still cant pull of that super skrull infinite, that shit is hard
http://twitter.com/onReload onReload

Just so you all know, El Fuerte’s RSF is not an infinite. It’s been tested and proven to just be a (possibly) long loop. Plus, infinites in MvC2 (iron man’s, magneto’s rom) usually lead to an undizzy, where the opponent flips out, totally safe – this is better than previous vs. games where they would become truly dizzy and you could start all over again.

The point is that you can do an infinite to build some bar, and then go for a mixup whenever you feel like it. It’s not “learn the infinite, win every time”, not by any means. Damage scaling and the undizzy mechanic totally destroy that notion. Even the true infinites in SF4 (Fei Long’s Chicken Wing loop, Abel’s infinite on Chun) aren’t a real danger with the huge damage scaling and difficulty level

tl;dr infinites aren’t bad unless the game is really poorly designed.
- Anonymous
  
  MvC2 had a hard 50 hit cap before it triggered the undizzy. This could however, be broken if you were good enough.
- Anonymous
  
  MvC2 had a hard 50 hit cap before it triggered the undizzy. This could however, be broken if you were good enough.
  - http://twitter.com/jamesdaflores James Dominic Flores
    
    Just like to add that If you try to keep doing resets all day without killing the enemy, you’ll still trigger the undizzy
    
    That’s something I’ve learned from having to play stupid ass level 1 damage here
  - http://twitter.com/jamesdaflores James Dominic Flores
    
    Just like to add that If you try to keep doing resets all day without killing the enemy, you’ll still trigger the undizzy
    
    That’s something I’ve learned from having to play stupid ass level 1 damage here
http://www.facebook.com/people/Ali-Buksha/1097791119 Ali Buksha

kazuya infinite in sfxt is stupid because it allows for huge amounts of damage that other characters in teh cast cant do. infinites in mvc2 were fine because lets face it, alot of characters could reach that damage through other means. ken roll + tron assist into launcher into tatsu did more damage than half the infintes in that game for a fraction of the button presses.

tl;dr, infintes are fine as long as the damage is mitigated throughout the cast
- http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio
  
  infinites in MvC2 are fine because standards were lower then, and now we’re used to them.
  - Anonymous
    
    I’d posit that our standards were higher then since we didn’t just accept everything Capcom put out. Hence 3S rev. 990512 remaining the standard despite having a later build, or the rejection of any build of CvS2 that took out roll cancels.
    - http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X
      
      There is the one fixed version of an old versus game that didn’t hold anyone’s attention and there were a few different VSavs but only 1 of those are the standard.
      - Anonymous
        
        MSHvsSF?
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/João-Grassini/100003044683998 João Grassini
        
        hdremix i think
      - http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio
        
        Replaced by the arcade owners by newer versus games.
        
        In my (extensive) arcade experience, they replaced a game in the series with the next one. So when MvC2 came out, they put it in the cab that had had MvC1. When Tekken Tag came out, they put it in the cab that had Tekken 3.
        
        This had a much huger impact on what games became the ‘standards’ than most people think.
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Ali-Buksha/1097791119 Ali Buksha
    
    skull girls has no infinites, yet you still get these crazy 75% combos that are actually practical. please tell me how doing an infinite is any different from this. mvc3 has TOD combos. some characters can do them with no net meter loss. many can do it using 1 meter and are seen quite often in tourneys. in MVC2 no matter what infinites did NOT kill characters in 1 go infinites that are gamebreaking in terms of damage in comparison to the rest of the cast should be patched out. but if everyone had easy meterless 800 damage combos, but they werent done using infinites, and kazuya still had his infinte, would it be fair? yes
    - Anonymous
      
      You could 300% a whole team in MvC2 if you knew how.
      
      Also, Skullgirls was designed so that you could pull off long, damaging combos, not just infinites. That’s why it uses IPS instad of hitstun deterioration. The latter punishes all combos, the former only infinites.
    - Anonymous
      
      With infinites you can time out with a life lead. That’s the difference.
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Ali-Buksha/1097791119 Ali Buksha
    
    skull girls has no infinites, yet you still get these crazy 75% combos that are actually practical. please tell me how doing an infinite is any different from this. mvc3 has TOD combos. some characters can do them with no net meter loss. many can do it using 1 meter and are seen quite often in tourneys. in MVC2 no matter what infinites did NOT kill characters in 1 go infinites that are gamebreaking in terms of damage in comparison to the rest of the cast should be patched out. but if everyone had easy meterless 800 damage combos, but they werent done using infinites, and kazuya still had his infinte, would it be fair? yes
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Ali-Buksha/1097791119 Ali Buksha
    
    skull girls has no infinites, yet you still get these crazy 75% combos that are actually practical. please tell me how doing an infinite is any different from this. mvc3 has TOD combos. some characters can do them with no net meter loss. many can do it using 1 meter and are seen quite often in tourneys. in MVC2 no matter what infinites did NOT kill characters in 1 go infinites that are gamebreaking in terms of damage in comparison to the rest of the cast should be patched out. but if everyone had easy meterless 800 damage combos, but they werent done using infinites, and kazuya still had his infinte, would it be fair? yes
http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Riggenbach/100000575558258 Robert Riggenbach

Thats just how fighting games are, people dont bother trying to get good, they just wanna figure out how to break the game and piss people off.

Which really isnt indicative of how the quality of a fighting game is, its more of a sign as to how fucked up the FGC is.
- Anonymous
  
  That is technically, “getting good.” Competitive play is all about finding the best, most efficient ways to win. At the end of the day, the game only knows winning and losing, it doesn’t matter how.
  - http://www.facebook.com/tomiko.komito Tomiko Komito
    
    yeah, the game only knows winning and losing, but people watching can see way more than that, that’s why in a lot of cases there are players that get less respect than others even if they win more, so it’s up to what each one think it’s the most important.
    - Anonymous
      
      Less respect, more money. Depends what you are into.
    - http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X
      
      who hates winning?
      - Anonymous
        
        Scrubs?
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
    
    Spoken like a tier-whore with a dishonest play-style…the only people who say things like this is people that do cheap shit to win. You win by being better than people, not finding cheap ass tactics so you don’t really have to confront them. I bet most of the people who play like that can’t fight a lick in real life.
    - Anonymous
      
      Finding and learning how to properly use “cheap ass” tactics is how you become better than your opponent. Remember, the game only knows winning and losing. Getting rid of the “scrub” mentality of calling things cheap is the first step be becoming a better player.
      
      http://www.sirlin.net/ptw
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
        
        Scrub?
        
        XBL Gamertag=gammabolt17…see me
        
        Some shit is just cheap. Only people who think NOTHING is cheap are the people that do cheap things. Scrub mentality my ass. I don’t give a damn what sirlin.net says, either. Did they create the concept of winning and losing? Like I said…spoken like a tier whore with a dishonest play-style. Come get yo ass busted. I’m not bout to sit here and argue about what’s cheap or not. I’ma show you how I bust ass without using these cheap tactics that I bet you use.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
        
        Scrub?
        
        XBL Gamertag=gammabolt17…see me
        
        Some shit is just cheap. Only people who think NOTHING is cheap are the people that do cheap things. Scrub mentality my ass. I don’t give a damn what sirlin.net says, either. Did they create the concept of winning and losing? Like I said…spoken like a tier whore with a dishonest play-style. Come get yo ass busted. I’m not bout to sit here and argue about what’s cheap or not. I’ma show you how I bust ass without using these cheap tactics that I bet you use.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
        
        I don’t want to win by anything that could be considered cheap. I play Marvel with Iron Fist/Hawkeye/Hulk and I pretty much only assist to extend combos. And I bust ass. While most other people won’t even approach without an assist for cover, other people won’t even SWING without an assist for cover, and some people straight up let the assists fight for them. Yet I still win more than double the amount of losses I have. Don’t call me scrub in defense of you’re scared ass playing style. Fuck “playing to win”. I win because I am fucking good.
      - Donovan Harris
        
        Says players won’t approach without assist. Uses Hulk…Sounds legit.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
        
        @google-47fb8432144e00409634f3f144551b68:disqus
        
        Hulk is only my anchor (notice the order I listed the team in), I’m talking about people doing this to Iron Fist mostly. That’s straight up scary. By the time Hulk comes in, I have no X-Factor (unless my Hawkeye gets raped to fast for me to use it) and he’s all by himself. There’s nothing to be scared of at that point.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
        
        @google-47fb8432144e00409634f3f144551b68:disqus
        
        Hulk is only my anchor (notice the order I listed the team in), I’m talking about people doing this to Iron Fist mostly. That’s straight up scary. By the time Hulk comes in, I have no X-Factor (unless my Hawkeye gets raped to fast for me to use it) and he’s all by himself. There’s nothing to be scared of at that point.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
        
        Scrub?
        
        XBL Gamertag=gammabolt17…see me
        
        Some shit is just cheap. Only people who think NOTHING is cheap are the people that do cheap things. Scrub mentality my ass. I don’t give a damn what sirlin.net says, either. Did they create the concept of winning and losing? Like I said…spoken like a tier whore with a dishonest play-style. Come get yo ass busted. I’m not bout to sit here and argue about what’s cheap or not. I’ma show you how I bust ass without using these cheap tactics that I bet you use.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
        
        And why would Infinites need to be prevented? Because they are cheap, right? Like Know_the_ledge said…” I don’t want to be killed off by some lame ass loop”…does that mean he’s a scrub because he doesn’t wanna be beaten by a cheap ass tactic? Does that mean Mike Z is a scrub for not allowing a cheap ass tactic to be in his game?
        
        Fuck Sirlin, and fuck that “playing to win” shit. Nobody plays to lose, but I’ll be damned if I’m about to give up everything I love about the game in order to win a match in virtual reality. That’s scrub shit right there. Just because the shit is in a blog or written on the front page of a website doesn’t automatically make it right. I’m not bout to stop picking anybody I play with because character x is cheaper. You stay succumbing to bullshit cheap tactics like that because you can’t win off your own playstyle…learn to be cheap, that’s just pathetic.
    - Anonymous
      
      Finding and learning how to properly use “cheap ass” tactics is how you become better than your opponent. Remember, the game only knows winning and losing. Getting rid of the “scrub” mentality of calling things cheap is the first step be becoming a better player.
      
      http://www.sirlin.net/ptw
    - Anonymous
      
      Finding and learning how to properly use “cheap ass” tactics is how you become better than your opponent. Remember, the game only knows winning and losing. Getting rid of the “scrub” mentality of calling things cheap is the first step be becoming a better player.
      
      http://www.sirlin.net/ptw
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Stanley-Seymour/694256223 Stanley Seymour
  
  You do have have a huge point Rob as its one of the reasons why you usually see people man stupid characters or particular teams all around. Not because they like the characters in anyway but because they know that they have such a huge advantage over the other members of the cast that it makes it irrelevant to even bother learning anything other than their basics. Like for example in Skullgirls competitive wise, lazy people (In my opinion your lazy) who usually top high main Peacock/Double simply because their game plan is keepaway. Sure people can defend that oh Peacock is a zoning character she’s supposed to do that, but lets be honest with ourselves that doesn’t make it any better that she tops simply because some idiot realizes that hey all I have to do is walk/run away, throw stuff across the screen. If anyone gets to close then they get hit by Parasoul’s Napalm Pillar or Double’s Hornet Bomber, and honestly as good as people say that team is I call it lazy, plain and simple. Sure I understand that your supposed to win at all costs and blah blah blah, but seriously who wants to be in a match where all your opponent does all day is throw stuff and you have the sack to call that skill. Seriously? Its a shame really when winning comes in the way of creativity and wanting to explore something new rather than ole analogy of “if it ain’t broke then don’t fix it” or I’m just using this team because all of the pros are doing it. Shame really, a damn shame at that.
  - Anonymous
    
    I haven’t played sg yet so I won’t comment about it, but to say keepaway takes no skill or is not creative? I can’t believe this. The most conspicuous example right now of successful keepaway I would say is Chris G with Morrigan and Dr. doom. He is one of the very few players who wins consistently without relying on dominant offense and mixups even in a game where the mixups are simple and devastating. Sure, his strategy is also powerful, but it is one that most people don’t understand how to apply. All people see is the other guy haplessly running into fireballs and missiles, but they pay no mind to Chris’ spacing, fireball placement, movement, assist calls, momentary switches from defense to offense, etc. This is supposedly lazy? Give me a fucking break. The gameplay is very intricate and imo usually more fun to watch than a Virgil player who summons swords from full screen, calls Magneto, teleports, and hopes you get hit.
  - Anonymous
    
    I haven’t played sg yet so I won’t comment about it, but to say keepaway takes no skill or is not creative? I can’t believe this. The most conspicuous example right now of successful keepaway I would say is Chris G with Morrigan and Dr. doom. He is one of the very few players who wins consistently without relying on dominant offense and mixups even in a game where the mixups are simple and devastating. Sure, his strategy is also powerful, but it is one that most people don’t understand how to apply. All people see is the other guy haplessly running into fireballs and missiles, but they pay no mind to Chris’ spacing, fireball placement, movement, assist calls, momentary switches from defense to offense, etc. This is supposedly lazy? Give me a fucking break. The gameplay is very intricate and imo usually more fun to watch than a Virgil player who summons swords from full screen, calls Magneto, teleports, and hopes you get hit.
  - http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X
    
    No, the person who found it is clever, smart and inventive. The people whining about it and not doing anything to find a way to beat it are lazy.
    
    And this zoning = lazy is such bullshit. Run the team yourself and see how easy it is, it’ll also show you how other people beat it and further your quest of finding a way to counter it.
  - http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X
    
    No, the person who found it is clever, smart and inventive. The people whining about it and not doing anything to find a way to beat it are lazy.
    
    And this zoning = lazy is such bullshit. Run the team yourself and see how easy it is, it’ll also show you how other people beat it and further your quest of finding a way to counter it.
  - Anonymous
    
    Keepaway against a good player isn’t lazy. A good player will keep you on your toes, find ways to get past your spam, and punish you for being “lazy”. It’s not your opponent’s job to keep you entertained by playing some dumb mental code you came up with for what is considered good/bad/skillful/lazy gameplay, it’s your opponents job to beat you. If he can do it 1/2 asleep, that’s your fault. Critiquing his style of beating you is irrelevant, and only hinders your ability to get better.
http://twitter.com/Zenmetsu89 Saba

I’m sure Seth Killian has his own personal opinion about things, but naturally he can’t express it freely because he’s a PR person. The only time he’s allowed to publicly say what he really thinks is when it’s something that will make capcom look good.
http://twitter.com/Zenmetsu89 Saba

I’m sure Seth Killian has his own personal opinion about things, but naturally he can’t express it freely because he’s a PR person. The only time he’s allowed to publicly say what he really thinks is when it’s something that will make capcom look good.
Anonymous

Nice try capcom, you can’t talk shit at Skullgirls, so don’t even try again.
#conspiracy
- http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio
  
  Lol I think he just knows the D3v’s will flame the fuck out of Capcom if they don’t say ‘no infinites are actually good!’
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Ali-Buksha/1097791119 Ali Buksha
  
  at least capcom knows how to put in game move lists and training mode dummy settings.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Ali-Buksha/1097791119 Ali Buksha
  
  at least capcom knows how to put in game move lists and training mode dummy settings.
  - Anonymous
    
    So do Mike Z and co, which is why they’re going to do it, now that those features are in the game that couldn’t be easily patched in. Come back when Capcom make a good game.
    - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
      
      You mean any Marvel vs. game? You mean ST, the Alpha series? You mean CVS2? You mean SF4? You mean Darkstalkers? You mean Rival Schools? You mean 3rd Strike? You realize that if the Marvel series hadn’t came around, there would be no basis for Skullgirls, right? Stop turning this into a flame war. Skullgirls is hot, but saying ”
      Come back when Capcom make a good game” is pure idiocy.
    - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
      
      You mean any Marvel vs. game? You mean ST, the Alpha series? You mean CVS2? You mean SF4? You mean Darkstalkers? You mean Rival Schools? You mean 3rd Strike? You realize that if the Marvel series hadn’t came around, there would be no basis for Skullgirls, right? Stop turning this into a flame war. Skullgirls is hot, but saying ”
      Come back when Capcom make a good game” is pure idiocy.
      - Anonymous
        
        Nowhere have I said that they never made a good game (LOL SF4). Stop self-trolling mate, starting to feel bad.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
        
        “Come back when Capcom make a good game” reads a whole lot like you saying that Capcom hasn’t made a good game. I don’t even think you kids know what trolling is, anymore.
        
        If (LOL SF4) isn’t trolling, I don’t know what is. I mean, it’s only the game that got fighters back into the limelight, but yeah.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
        
        “Come back when Capcom make a good game” reads a whole lot like you saying that Capcom hasn’t made a good game. I don’t even think you kids know what trolling is, anymore.
        
        If (LOL SF4) isn’t trolling, I don’t know what is. I mean, it’s only the game that got fighters back into the limelight, but yeah.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Yan-Zhao/10516382 Yan Zhao
        
        SF4 is probably the only good Fighting Game Capcom has made that wasn’t from 10 years ago.
        
        And that took 3 revisions so far.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Yan-Zhao/10516382 Yan Zhao
        
        SF4 is probably the only good Fighting Game Capcom has made that wasn’t from 10 years ago.
        
        And that took 3 revisions so far.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
        
        First off, they’ve only made 3 games since then.
        
        Secondly, just because you don’t like the games don’t mean that they weren’t good. Of course you would say that to disagree with me. Name me one fighting game that hasn’t had multiple revisions and then I’ll take your word for something other than haterism.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
        
        First off, they’ve only made 3 games since then.
        
        Secondly, just because you don’t like the games don’t mean that they weren’t good. Of course you would say that to disagree with me. Name me one fighting game that hasn’t had multiple revisions and then I’ll take your word for something other than haterism.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Yan-Zhao/10516382 Yan Zhao
        
        YOU need to realize just because a game is fun or popular doesnt make it a good fighting game. I have fun with Marvel and SFxT too, but they are games full of flaws. I speak purely from a game design perspective.
        
        So no, they havent made a good game since SF4. Go learn what good game design is and I wont take your words for something other than fanboyism.
      - http://www.facebook.com/people/Nic-Holley/1371451240 Nic Holley
        
        Like I said, just because YOU don’t like them doesn’t mean they’re not good. Not everyone has the same perspective on game design as you. So exactly what I said before is still valid. Skyrim has an assload of flaws too. You are out of your damned mind if you think that’s a bad game, though. Name me one good fighting game that isn’t fun…I’ll wait. Just because a game has good design doesn’t make it a good game, either, it just has a good design. A polished turd is still shit. It just shines a little more.
        
        Fuck all that other hubris you spewin. You just twisted around what I said and put your words in it. We could play that game all day. You didn’t hear me diss Skullgirls at all either, so you can cut that fanboy stuff out. I play fighting games. Period. My gamertag is gammabolt17. You’ll see I love all of these games that show up here, mostly. I’m a fighting game fanboy, I guess. You’re just all the way wrong, buddy.
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Stanley-Seymour/694256223 Stanley Seymour
    
    They are pretty smart at doing that, yet I don’t see them doing anything with infinites now do we? Last time I checked Mike Z is a tournament player with vast experience and knows within himself that infinites are a blight to the FGC, more so than anything else besides broken characters. At least if I lose in Skullgirls at least its because my opponent was CREATIVE enough to make a combo that started off differently every time where as if I am stuck in a corner and get hit by Kazuya then he can just infinite me to death and there is nothing I can do about it. Mike’s IPS is by far one of the most amazing things I have ever seen in a fighting game and its a breath of fresh air for me so I don’t have to worry about losing just because of some loop I got into by accident and I can’t get out until I die. Stay free dude and actually learn how to make a sensible point and not a dumb one.
  - http://www.facebook.com/people/Stanley-Seymour/694256223 Stanley Seymour
    
    They are pretty smart at doing that, yet I don’t see them doing anything with infinites now do we? Last time I checked Mike Z is a tournament player with vast experience and knows within himself that infinites are a blight to the FGC, more so than anything else besides broken characters. At least if I lose in Skullgirls at least its because my opponent was CREATIVE enough to make a combo that started off differently every time where as if I am stuck in a corner and get hit by Kazuya then he can just infinite me to death and there is nothing I can do about it. Mike’s IPS is by far one of the most amazing things I have ever seen in a fighting game and its a breath of fresh air for me so I don’t have to worry about losing just because of some loop I got into by accident and I can’t get out until I die. Stay free dude and actually learn how to make a sensible point and not a dumb one.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Ali-Buksha/1097791119 Ali Buksha
  
  at least capcom knows how to put in game move lists and training mode dummy settings.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Stephen-Totilo/621078884 Stephen Totilo
  
  He wasn’t talking shit about the game. He seem intrigued by the Skullgirls no-infinite system when we talked.
  - Anonymous
    
    I am aware
Anonymous

“I take them as a necessary sign of a good game, because what it suggests
is a certain amount of creativity and a certain amount of freedom to do
things that the developer didn’t intend. That’s one of the best things
about a combat system.”
Tell that to HnK and Sengoku Basara X.

What the fuck am i reading?
Anonymous

“I take them as a necessary sign of a good game, because what it suggests
is a certain amount of creativity and a certain amount of freedom to do
things that the developer didn’t intend. That’s one of the best things
about a combat system.”
Tell that to HnK and Sengoku Basara X.

What the fuck am i reading?
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_RRX322HOECOJAPU24CI3EXOY7M rykushi64

Love the image at the top
http://www.facebook.com/people/Justin-Brody/100001937334641 Justin Brody

Fighting games are like yin/yang to me. The good stuff to most casual fighters is the traditional, no infinite combos rule, while the others prefer infinites and freedom.
A good fighting game cannot exist without the other elements.You have to design a fighting game for both realms of fighters, hardcore and casual. It’s just that most casual fighters stop because of others around them mastering these infinites and taking the fight to another level. A level they don’t like.
Anonymous

I guess I’m not surprised that a post that has little to do with SFxT beyond saying that some bad infinites exist there and that they will be patched out presently immediately devolves into “Crapcom sucks, SFxT sucks! Let’s go play Skullgirls!”

Seriously, go play fucking Skullgirls if you like it so much. Your persistence in trolling SFxT or Capcom related posts just outs you as a poor player who leaps on any chance to blame the game rather than himself.

I love Skullgirls, but I also love AE and SFxT. Yeah, Capcom screwed up in the PR and marketing decisions for SFxT, but the core game is really fun and plays extremely well. For some reason the snafus in the release of SFxT have led to some sort of unspoken boycott of the game where people have to keep disclaiming that “I’m definitely no fan of SFxT, but…”

Jesus, this is why this community will remain atomised and descend into bickering over and over. Because y’all just can’t wait to belittle others in some vain search for validation.

Choice A: Pick a game you love, get good at it, become friends with everyone who plays that game with you, and respect everyone in the FGC who plays something else.

Choice B: Lurk until you find a game that a lot of high level players are praising, then claim to love that game, play it for a little bit, but mostly troll posts of competing games telling everyone how good your game is and how broken and stupid every other game is. Make frequent references to how things were better in pre- SFIV days, even if you weren’t around.
Anonymous

I guess I’m not surprised that a post that has little to do with SFxT beyond saying that some bad infinites exist there and that they will be patched out presently immediately devolves into “Crapcom sucks, SFxT sucks! Let’s go play Skullgirls!”

Seriously, go play fucking Skullgirls if you like it so much. Your persistence in trolling SFxT or Capcom related posts just outs you as a poor player who leaps on any chance to blame the game rather than himself.

I love Skullgirls, but I also love AE and SFxT. Yeah, Capcom screwed up in the PR and marketing decisions for SFxT, but the core game is really fun and plays extremely well. For some reason the snafus in the release of SFxT have led to some sort of unspoken boycott of the game where people have to keep disclaiming that “I’m definitely no fan of SFxT, but…”

Jesus, this is why this community will remain atomised and descend into bickering over and over. Because y’all just can’t wait to belittle others in some vain search for validation.

Choice A: Pick a game you love, get good at it, become friends with everyone who plays that game with you, and respect everyone in the FGC who plays something else.

Choice B: Lurk until you find a game that a lot of high level players are praising, then claim to love that game, play it for a little bit, but mostly troll posts of competing games telling everyone how good your game is and how broken and stupid every other game is. Make frequent references to how things were better in pre- SFIV days, even if you weren’t around.
- Anonymous
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-CY291UsgE
- Blam57
  
  Why do i get the feeling you bought the dlc characters
Adam Deiboldt

In an unpublished part of the interview, Killian confided that Hokuto No Ken is his favorite fighting game of all time and that was where he learned that he gets a boner while executing an infinite combo….!!!
Anonymous

May we all consider that infinites, for all intents and purposes, are no different from any ToD combo in that they are inescapable ways to kill an opponent. Therefore, inifinites can be justified in the same way that a difficult combo can – it must be balanced by difficulty and/or situation to make sense. A difficult infinite is no less broken than, say, a 1000 damage HD combo in KOF (and every single character can do one with full meter and in some cases a counter hit). HD combos are dropped all the time in competitive play, and it’s reasonable in many cases to opt for maybe two 500 damage combos instead. However, if you have the skill and the confidence, you are rewarded with the ability to ToD in certain situations, and that is fine.
http://twitter.com/DarkKirbyx DarkKirby

Capcom: Mr. Killian, people are complaining about something we don’t want to spend the time or money to fix, go convince people things are fine the way they are, if not possibly in their favor.
http://www.facebook.com/people/João-Grassini/100003044683998 João Grassini

it’s very dangerous to give any attention to something written in kotaku…i mean,they suck at FGs right?
http://twitter.com/B1jyu Stano Jaeger

Infinites are fine in any game that has touch of deaths that are relatively easy to pull off without the infinite. What is the difference between killing you by pressing these 20 buttons or killing you by pressing another set of 20 buttons? You “feel” cheated because the first set didn’t look as special?
http://www.facebook.com/victoly Matthew Taylor

Nobody these days seem to understand that infinites aren’t inherently bad.

They are simply a tool that should be treated like any other in the grand scheme of things.

MvC2′s were alright because they were one of many options you had at your disposal, and they weren’t the definitive option for every situation.
http://www.facebook.com/egonzalez41 Emmanuel Gonzalez

Dear Capcom. I’m an Online gamer who likes to win by being a cheap as possible. Please make it possible so I can play even more cheaply. Thank you.
Anonymous

You know, Evo 2011 got me back into fighting games after a long absence. And I genuinely liked most of the FGC.

I really hate the FGC now. The community is so fractured on what they like/dislike due to the amount of fighting games available now that there is nothing by fanboy hate in half of the comments.
Anonymous

You know, Evo 2011 got me back into fighting games after a long absence. And I genuinely liked most of the FGC.

I really hate the FGC now. The community is so fractured on what they like/dislike due to the amount of fighting games available now that there is nothing by fanboy hate in half of the comments.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=8230518 Mark Wins

“Flaws are a sign of the wonders of liberty?”
It was a flaw that we got combos in the first place.

I’m not implying favoring or un-favoring of infinites. I’m just simply understanding the logic here.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=8230518 Mark Wins

“Flaws are a sign of the wonders of liberty?”
It was a flaw that we got combos in the first place.

I’m not implying favoring or un-favoring of infinites. I’m just simply understanding the logic here.
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