Renic Chronicles His Transition from 3rd Strike to SSFIVAE: Ver. 2012

wayyyyy better than maximillion

props renic

wayyyyy better than maximillion

props renic

Renic playing something other then S3 .

First sign of the Apocalypse . 

Renic playing something other then S3 .

First sign of the Apocalypse . 

Renic playing something other then S3 .

First sign of the Apocalypse . 

Renic playing something other then S3 .

First sign of the Apocalypse . 

better than most people’s first time…..i would really like to see his Abel instead

Cody? I am pleased.

Cody? I am pleased.

Cody? I am pleased.

Don’t do it Ty.
Don’t lower yourself to SFIV. 

Don’t do it Ty.
Don’t lower yourself to SFIV. 

lol at the Makoto actually trying to land a crossup j. MK without having Cody in the corner.

Someone’s out to troll every game made after 2001 to look OG hardcore.

I wish you well on your journey!

Every time I see a horrible Gouken I get so frustrated.  The man had a full bar of meter and U2!  Ah well, good vid Renic.  Lets see you turn into a beast in SFIV.

so me not liking the newer fighting games makes me a troll? 
Okay. keep grasping.

You’re that curious to transition from 3rd strike to SSFIV or are you just testing out the waters? As for me, I think I am going to revert to 3rd strike because AE just full of a lot of shit.

Yeah, I agree. It’s so funny how before ssf4 was bashed into the ground, but once money comes into play. Everyone is jumping ship. It’s pretty obvious that fighting games will never be good again. After aIl the esports hype(money) blows over we’ll just be left with a bunch of shitty games.

As was mentioned in the video- yeah, from an outside perspective, it’s weird knowing which players are good in SF4, because the game is so different.  

Using Arcade Edition as an example, stuff that would get people killed in other games is not only safe in AE, but rewards the player doing it.  The easiest example of this would be stupid divekick shenanigans with Yun/Rufus etc.  In SF3s or Alphas or SF2s it wouldn’t work that way, not only because hit/blockstun and spacing would be different, but you would randomly lose 20-100% if someone punished with a parry or Alpha Counter or CC or they end up in the corner…etc.  See also: Akuma demon flip/air hurricane mixup games.

At every level of gameplay, there are things which would, in other games, indicate a lack of experience.  But sometimes these things are really good in SF4, and so the water becomes muddied if you haven’t spent enough time with the game.

And there’s plenty of stuff that’s just WTF-status.  Seth’s fullscreen crossup j.Roundhouse, corner crossups in general, throw range is different, hitboxes and linking are different, etc.

I play AE every once in a while, and it’s helped me to stop thinking about whether a player is good or not, but rather are they good at SF4.  Because even if what they’re doing seems ridiculous, I can accept that in the context of this games that it’s good and/or a smart choice.

 this game is crossup heavy in general and that’s not really the case in 3rd strike. there are some crossups in this game that hit behind while the character lands in front or some that are nearly impossible to block that you’d might as well call them unblockable. yun’s old dive kick comes to mind from AE 2011.
the other thing that is really different is invincible backdashes and focus backdash so you need to do annoying OS everytime you do a simple jump-in.
 most moves don’t have a lot of active frames so meaties are almost pointless. the hitboxes don’t really match the animations in the game either so you’ll get confused because it looks like some moves are still active when in fact they are not etc..
another thing to keep in mind while making the transition is the 5 frame reversal window. sf4 allows a lot of hit stun from jump ins so you don’t need to jump in as deep but on block you’ll eat a dp if you try to throw or mix up the opponent. they can dp and fadc on block which is really dumb and i don’t know why they never fixed this so basically when you want to rush down or keep up your momentum you’ll get punished. just remember to keep it boring and you stand a greater chance of winning.
after a hard knock down the best option is a safe jump/crossup. that’s the safest option against all the bullshit in this game so get to liking it. forget about ground based momentum after hard knockdowns unless you’re feeling really lucky and have ultra or something else buffered during your strings.
best thing about this game to me personally is the fadc combos which look badass. they are fun to do when you get the hang of them but the game is very backwards with meter unless you like to use the twins. most supers do shit damage so you want to just use meter to fadc ultra or make some of your specials safe on block. you need to focus a lot or take damage to get the ultra. yeah i know, wtf. ultra is like the new super but to get it you need to be hurt. still don’t understand? me neither.
there are things to like but so much more to hate when transitioning to sf4 from any other sf or fighting game. it’ll be tough at first but you’ll get the hang of it. i don’t think as of right now, sfxt will sell well and this may be the sf game we’ll all be playing for some time so might as well ditch ST and 3S for competitive play and stick with sf4 and kof13 (which is actually really good btw).

lame Renic come on dude,   Watch him play against gootecks and he totally disses him when he loses against balrog,  now hes playing ae 2012 its a bit late and hes far behind,  but if wants to torture himself go for it, the hype is going out of ssf4 anyway think it is kinda pointless

I mean he was kinda dissing on SSf4 before it seemed and now hes suddenly into it after 2 years is kinda suspect

What some perceive as flaws in SF4 I perceive as it’s strengths, it’s a different game and is a worthy successor to the series.IMO I love it. It’s not perfect but neither were any of the other games in the series.

What some perceive as flaws in SF4 I perceive as it’s strengths, it’s a different game and is a worthy successor to the series.IMO I love it. It’s not perfect but neither were any of the other games in the series.

I can’t name a single person who transferred from 3s to sf4 and genuinely liked the initial re-adapting phase, and there’s plenty of people found that off putting enough to not make transfer. Now that the game just went through a huge over haul to re-balance, seems to me like it’s as good of a time as any. 

PS: nothing suspect about wanting to switch to a game with a larger player base. 
http://shoryuken.com/2011/12/04/community-matters-or-why-a-game-is-legitimate-only-if-there-are-people-playing-it/ 

I can’t name a single person who transferred from 3s to sf4 and genuinely liked the initial re-adapting phase, and there’s plenty of people found that off putting enough to not make transfer. Now that the game just went through a huge over haul to re-balance, seems to me like it’s as good of a time as any. 

PS: nothing suspect about wanting to switch to a game with a larger player base. 
http://shoryuken.com/2011/12/04/community-matters-or-why-a-game-is-legitimate-only-if-there-are-people-playing-it/ 

Wtf the guy bashes sf4 every chance he gets and says its an inferior game to 3s (I agree btw) and then he starts playing sf4? Kind of a two-faced thing to do.

He should go to jail for that. FGC #eSports Jail! :O
If he feels like doing this then let him, it’s not a big deal at all.

theres money involved?

theres money involved?

This guy is pretty pretentious. 

This guy is pretty pretentious. 

This guy is pretty pretentious. 

And yet you watch streams of those so called shitty games…

Go fuck yourself snob

Comparing something with 3s, you cruel guy…

Comparing something with 3s, you cruel guy…

you see he’s pretentious because he calls you all out on your bullshit

you can talk and say whatever you want….SSF IV is a great game and maybe the bigest in the series….am i the only one that thinks that Street Fighter 2 turbo or Street Fightter champions edition is better than 3s

you can talk and say whatever you want….SSF IV is a great game and maybe the bigest in the series….am i the only one that thinks that Street Fighter 2 turbo or Street Fightter champions edition is better than 3s

you can talk and say whatever you want….SSF IV is a great game and maybe the bigest in the series….am i the only one that thinks that Street Fighter 2 turbo or Street Fightter champions edition is better than 3s

you can talk and say whatever you want….SSF IV is a great game and maybe the bigest in the series….am i the only one that thinks that Street Fighter 2 turbo or Street Fightter champions edition is better than 3s

Wow, pretentious aren’t we?

Not really, he is just joining the crowd. Everyone and their mom switched sf4 and he probably just fed up with being one of the few people who only still play 3rd strike, props for him lasting that long. Face it, even though 3rd strike is better, the only thing he was getting out of playing it was respect. People who hold on to classic games like that are always the guys that people respect, but no one cares to be.

Not really, he is just joining the crowd. Everyone and their mom switched sf4 and he probably just fed up with being one of the few people who only still play 3rd strike, props for him lasting that long. Face it, even though 3rd strike is better, the only thing he was getting out of playing it was respect. People who hold on to classic games like that are always the guys that people respect, but no one cares to be.

Not really, he is just joining the crowd. Everyone and their mom switched sf4 and he probably just fed up with being one of the few people who only still play 3rd strike, props for him lasting that long. Face it, even though 3rd strike is better, the only thing he was getting out of playing it was respect. People who hold on to classic games like that are always the guys that people respect, but no one cares to be.

The street fighter series has always been great. In history it redefined what fighting games are today, and thanks to Ono and his huge gamble, SFIV was the re-birth of the FG genre and ultimately laid the foundation for the FGC, that is a fact. The rest of what i’m gonna is my honest opinion but i feel really strongly towards it.

While SSFIV is indeed a fun game, easy to pick up and play, hard to master, i think it is truly a bad game in terms of how competitive fighting games should be. The game caters too much the casual, and in turn lazy mindset. Making a game for casual players is completely fine, fighting games shouldn’t be just for the hardcore and it should be enjoyed by everyone who are willing to step away from the usual shooter, sports, and racing games. But, the way they went about making street fighter for the casual and competitive players was wrong. They emphasized the whole random factor and almost made that the focal point. What people call depth in street fighter i call simple guessing. The universal dps, which beat out nearly every normal attack, grab, neutral jump, jump-in, and special that doesn’t have as much priority of dp is ridiculous in my opinion. It’s like throwing out one thing that beats both rock and paper in rock/paper/scissors. The 1 to 5 frame grab (i don’t know the exact frames for the universal grab and the command grab on specific characters) which will get you even when you are certain that he is going to grab you after that second jab…..then he dps you lol. Both of these almost completely take away any kind of sophisticated pressure-string as badly as parrying took away the turtling aspect of the game.

Then you have the ultras and the overall scaling aspect of the game. NO COMPETITIVE GAME WHATSOEVER SHOULD HAVE A MECHANIC THAT REWARDS YOU FOR GETTING YOUR ASS WHOOPED. What if in Starcraft, you are rewarded with the option to instant spawn Terran Thor and battle cruisers just cause you are losing, would that add depth or bullshit? It’s one thing to comeback while you are losing (Daigo vs Justin Wong, 3rd strike, ken vs…..you already know the story) its another thing when the one winning the fight has to adjust to the losing players new available it’s not random if it connects, i’m not a scrub, i’m back in the game, you so jelly, special move (Deminion vs Aquasilk, SSFIV 2012, guile vs zangief). Also the damage scaling on the game. It’s safe to say nearly everyone on shoryuken has seen some sort of street fighter combo video. Who knows how long it took to get the timing down on all of those moves so they can show you the sick combination that you character can pull off……sucks that those vids are the most the combos are good for. You can do the most sexy combo (the one that burns both your super and ultra bar) that only a few have ever seen and fewer people can actually pull off themselves, but it will only do about a third of the damage that a shoryu fadc ultra (which is like the cherry popper of SFIV). No one complains though, so its cool i guess. What would happen if x-factor scaled that badly in a combo along with lvl 3? Would it add strategy or make the game more stagnant.

There are other things i don’t agree with the game (six-button layout with average of about 30 different normals, yet about only about a 5th of those normals are ever used in any given fight…a lot of wasted moves. Or how technical-zoning chars have better cross-ups then rush-down chars), but i will leave that alone before this turns into a book.

For street fighter:
enjoyable – yes
overall good game – definitely
competitive – barely (only game i put under this one is MVC)
set myself up to get bashed at by over half the people on shoryuken – hell yea…..

It’s always good to remember that 3rd Strike was originally going to get a 4th balance update that never happened. There’s no way to tell how feelings about the game might have changed had it been balanced differently than the final revision.

3rd Strike is not as universally worshipped as some fans believe it is. I was always amused by how the “hardqore” crowd in the west pooped on the game until they got whipped by Japanese players, then suddenly, it was the best game ever.

In the FGC, you will often find people with the attitude that goes: the game I know how to play is the best game ever, and the games I don’t know how to play / some kid beat my ass at, are just trash. People have a lot of ego wrapped up in their memorization of the execution for a singular game. It’s a human thing in the end; see how fanatical and crazy young males can get over sports.

SFIV is its own game. It’s a great game, but in a lot of ways, a reboot of development for the series. There’s no way it couldn’t be because of how long a break SF took and how the development environment changed.

In the FGC, you will often find people with the attitude that goes: the game I know how to play is the best game ever, and the games I don’t know how to play / some kid beat my ass at, are just trash. People have a lot of ego wrapped up in their memorization of the execution for a singular game. It’s a human thing in the end; see how fanatical and crazy young males can get over sports.

SFIV is its own game. It’s a great game, but in a lot of ways, a reboot of development for the series. There’s no way it couldn’t be because of how long a break SF took and how the development environment changed.

In the FGC, you will often find people with the attitude that goes: the game I know how to play is the best game ever, and the games I don’t know how to play / some kid beat my ass at, are just trash. People have a lot of ego wrapped up in their memorization of the execution for a singular game. It’s a human thing in the end; see how fanatical and crazy young males can get over sports.

SFIV is its own game. It’s a great game, but in a lot of ways, a reboot of development for the series. There’s no way it couldn’t be because of how long a break SF took and how the development environment changed.

In the FGC, you will often find people with the attitude that goes: the game I know how to play is the best game ever, and the games I don’t know how to play / some kid beat my ass at, are just trash. People have a lot of ego wrapped up in their memorization of the execution for a singular game. It’s a human thing in the end; see how fanatical and crazy young males can get over sports.

SFIV is its own game. It’s a great game, but in a lot of ways, a reboot of development for the series. There’s no way it couldn’t be because of how long a break SF took and how the development environment changed.

In the FGC, you will often find people with the attitude that goes: the game I know how to play is the best game ever, and the games I don’t know how to play / some kid beat my ass at, are just trash. People have a lot of ego wrapped up in their memorization of the execution for a singular game. It’s a human thing in the end; see how fanatical and crazy young males can get over sports.

SFIV is its own game. It’s a great game, but in a lot of ways, a reboot of development for the series. There’s no way it couldn’t be because of how long a break SF took and how the development environment changed.

One sees this opinion about SFIV a lot from players who can’t accept that it’s different from games made ten years ago. The thing is, what all this sounds like from a more objective perspective: in the 90s there was a tightly knit string of games developed one after another and they were very homogenized (to a point) in their underlying concepts. Players got used to thinking of those as being “the way a fighting game plays”, and took that for granted.

So the series gets rebooted a decade later, some concepts change, and as a result there are a certain percentage of players who don’t accept change as change. Instead, they think that “the game doesn’t work right”. Because it’s not exactly the same as the games they played which were designed in a different ecosystem of players and play styles.

I always found this interesting, since one of the project leaders for SFIV was the man who created Street Fighter in the first place. Despite the “IV” in the title, the game was always intended to be a partial reboot of the series in order to experiment with the mechanics.

That it was different and required re-education, and also became popular with the mainstream and drew a lot of new blood to the community, was bound to make a certain number of OG players defensive. That’s what people do.

Probably because they didn’t know what 3s was until the Japanese came over and showed them they were all playing the game wrong. But that’s clearly not anything to get people excited and light some fires, nope. Since you seem to be into SF4 defense mode, think before you post again. 

Well uh, I applaud such effort put into a front page comment! And I thought I ran long.

One thing I will say about the now infamous term “comeback mechanics”, is that the ultra meter in SFIV always seemed like an experiment in balancing what the super meter did to Capcom games. First, remember that the “comeback meter” was not some new “perversion” that began with SFIV. The game that developed this idea was in fact, Samurai Shodown. The concept has been around for a long time.

The problem the super meter created was its own imbalance. A lot of people don’t remember this, but back in the day, the “super” concept was disliked by, you got it, its own vocal minority. Their object? Why should the player who is winning and far ahead, be rewarded with a magic meter that gives them a super move to insure the player who is behind has even less chance of a comeback before they’re killed?

The thing is, it was a fair observation.

So, SFIV adopts the “rage” or “revenge” meter seen in some earlier games on the SNK side. The notion is that the player who is ahead gains super meter and the ability to FADC. Super Combos are weaker than some Ultras in terms of stand-alone damage but they’re a lot easier to set up and cancel into. And some characters in SFIV have Supers that are more valuable than their Ultras.

As a result, SFIV is simply a different balance where the player who is winning must be mindful that the rival is, quite literally, a cornered animal that becomes more dangerous the more pressure is put on. Is it different from past Capcom games? Yes. It doesn’t automatically mean it’s a bad game, or “uncompetitive”. Despite players griping about how “casual” the Ultra system makes the game, at actual high levels, people do not lose to the mythical “random Ultra” you see detractors gripe about. It seems to be one of those hypothetical scenarios people whip up to suggest something is fatally flawed, that doesn’t actually happen a lot in real life.

Well uh, I applaud such effort put into a front page comment! And I thought I ran long.

One thing I will say about the now infamous term “comeback mechanics”, is that the ultra meter in SFIV always seemed like an experiment in balancing what the super meter did to Capcom games. First, remember that the “comeback meter” was not some new “perversion” that began with SFIV. The game that developed this idea was in fact, Samurai Shodown. The concept has been around for a long time.

The problem the super meter created was its own imbalance. A lot of people don’t remember this, but back in the day, the “super” concept was disliked by, you got it, its own vocal minority. Their object? Why should the player who is winning and far ahead, be rewarded with a magic meter that gives them a super move to insure the player who is behind has even less chance of a comeback before they’re killed?

The thing is, it was a fair observation.

So, SFIV adopts the “rage” or “revenge” meter seen in some earlier games on the SNK side. The notion is that the player who is ahead gains super meter and the ability to FADC. Super Combos are weaker than some Ultras in terms of stand-alone damage but they’re a lot easier to set up and cancel into. And some characters in SFIV have Supers that are more valuable than their Ultras.

As a result, SFIV is simply a different balance where the player who is winning must be mindful that the rival is, quite literally, a cornered animal that becomes more dangerous the more pressure is put on. Is it different from past Capcom games? Yes. It doesn’t automatically mean it’s a bad game, or “uncompetitive”. Despite players griping about how “casual” the Ultra system makes the game, at actual high levels, people do not lose to the mythical “random Ultra” you see detractors gripe about. It seems to be one of those hypothetical scenarios people whip up to suggest something is fatally flawed, that doesn’t actually happen a lot in real life.

Well uh, I applaud such effort put into a front page comment! And I thought I ran long.

One thing I will say about the now infamous term “comeback mechanics”, is that the ultra meter in SFIV always seemed like an experiment in balancing what the super meter did to Capcom games. First, remember that the “comeback meter” was not some new “perversion” that began with SFIV. The game that developed this idea was in fact, Samurai Shodown. The concept has been around for a long time.

The problem the super meter created was its own imbalance. A lot of people don’t remember this, but back in the day, the “super” concept was disliked by, you got it, its own vocal minority. Their object? Why should the player who is winning and far ahead, be rewarded with a magic meter that gives them a super move to insure the player who is behind has even less chance of a comeback before they’re killed?

The thing is, it was a fair observation.

So, SFIV adopts the “rage” or “revenge” meter seen in some earlier games on the SNK side. The notion is that the player who is ahead gains super meter and the ability to FADC. Super Combos are weaker than some Ultras in terms of stand-alone damage but they’re a lot easier to set up and cancel into. And some characters in SFIV have Supers that are more valuable than their Ultras.

As a result, SFIV is simply a different balance where the player who is winning must be mindful that the rival is, quite literally, a cornered animal that becomes more dangerous the more pressure is put on. Is it different from past Capcom games? Yes. It doesn’t automatically mean it’s a bad game, or “uncompetitive”. Despite players griping about how “casual” the Ultra system makes the game, at actual high levels, people do not lose to the mythical “random Ultra” you see detractors gripe about. It seems to be one of those hypothetical scenarios people whip up to suggest something is fatally flawed, that doesn’t actually happen a lot in real life.

People don’t lost to random ultras at high level, they lose to ultras that said character shouldn’t have to begin with. It adds a new layer to the game, an unneeded one that at the end of the day rewards you for losing. Especially when the person ahead only has their super meter to rely on while the other has super meter and a stocked up and next thing you know zangeif is spinning you in the air while you put the controller down. 

you say its not seen in high level play but look up the example i threw in about deiminion vs aqua. The character Zangief is already frightening enough as is if he gets close, having his command grab that beats out nearly everything, deceptively good weak attacks that can set up into a combo or a command grab, and a lariat that has nearly shoryuken like properties. what makes matters worse is that when he gets about half health, he attains an air grab ultra the beats both the backdashes and any jump (which are the only legitimate ways to get away from zangief) and if it connects, sets you up to play his guessing game on wake-up. Granted its not garunteed it will connect, but the fact he has that great move in his arsenal is too much for what he did to get it, which was get hurt. 

It’s bullshit saying ultras arent in high level play cause the only time u dont see them is if the high lvl player is using a character that doesn’t really need it or the ultra itself is bad (Fei long, akuma, the twins in arcade edition)

Agreed.  I’ve actually made the Samurai Showdown comparison myself, as it’s a very similar concept.  If I recall correctly, SS’s “POW” meter was actually much more dangerous since it dramatically increased the user’s damage output.  Similarly, there’s the early KoF (98 I think?) “Extra” mode, which rewarded the player when they got down to about 25% health with infinite level-1 supers.

Comeback mechanics aren’t new, and to be honest Ultras are fairly tame in comparison to most, as it’s still another meter that you have to build, and even when you get an Ultra stocked, you still have to actually land it… and despite how “random” some people make it out to be, it’s not *that* easy to throw it out there and be rewarded.

But you know.  Haters gonna’ hate and all that. :-p

Agreed.  I’ve actually made the Samurai Showdown comparison myself, as it’s a very similar concept.  If I recall correctly, SS’s “POW” meter was actually much more dangerous since it dramatically increased the user’s damage output.  Similarly, there’s the early KoF (98 I think?) “Extra” mode, which rewarded the player when they got down to about 25% health with infinite level-1 supers.

Comeback mechanics aren’t new, and to be honest Ultras are fairly tame in comparison to most, as it’s still another meter that you have to build, and even when you get an Ultra stocked, you still have to actually land it… and despite how “random” some people make it out to be, it’s not *that* easy to throw it out there and be rewarded.

But you know.  Haters gonna’ hate and all that. :-p

And hate i shall, as i said, the game is fun but, there is too much bull for a competitive fighting game and if the only rebuttal i get out of everything i’ve said about street fighter is that “ultras aren’t so bad” and “this isn’t the first comeback mechanic” i’m cool with that.

And hate i shall, as i said, the game is fun but, there is too much bull for a competitive fighting game and if the only rebuttal i get out of everything i’ve said about street fighter is that “ultras aren’t so bad” and “this isn’t the first comeback mechanic” i’m cool with that.

You’re saying SSFIV AE 2012 and all it’s past iterations are not competitive, but it is currently one of THE most widely played competitive FGCs to date. I think what you mean to say is based on your opinion, the game is ass and should not be considered viable for competitive play. But you’d have the majority of the FGC disagreeing with you so…

You’re saying SSFIV AE 2012 and all it’s past iterations are not competitive, but it is currently one of THE most widely played competitive FGCs to date. I think what you mean to say is based on your opinion, the game is ass and should not be considered viable for competitive play. But you’d have the majority of the FGC disagreeing with you so…

Yea you are right, thats what i mean to say, for the most part. Just felt like venting for a little bit.

You mean “say” right? 

*see/say that.

Either way. lrn2extrapolate.

*see/say that.

Either way. lrn2extrapolate.

*see/say that.

Either way. lrn2extrapolate.

*see/say that.

Either way. lrn2extrapolate.

*see/say that.

Either way. lrn2extrapolate.

I thought I was actually fairly specific, but I’ll say it again- there are things that bad players would do in other games, that intermediate and good players do in the SF4 series, and so it can become difficult trying to distinguish which players are “good” in the traditional sense.

And as someone who has played a lot of those old games which you describe as being homogeneous, they varied rather widely in terms of gameplay and engine features, to say nothing of more specific gameplay details.  The criticizing of a new game in a series is nothing new in the SF/fighting game community.  The only thing new is that SF4 players don’t seem to understand or tolerate it, and seek to dimiss it as elitism.

I thought I was actually fairly specific, but I’ll say it again- there are things that bad players would do in other games, that intermediate and good players do in the SF4 series, and so it can become difficult trying to distinguish which players are “good” in the traditional sense.

And as someone who has played a lot of those old games which you describe as being homogeneous, they varied rather widely in terms of gameplay and engine features, to say nothing of more specific gameplay details.  The criticizing of a new game in a series is nothing new in the SF/fighting game community.  The only thing new is that SF4 players don’t seem to understand or tolerate it, and seek to dimiss it as elitism.

I thought I was actually fairly specific, but I’ll say it again- there are things that bad players would do in other games, that intermediate and good players do in the SF4 series, and so it can become difficult trying to distinguish which players are “good” in the traditional sense.

And as someone who has played a lot of those old games which you describe as being homogeneous, they varied rather widely in terms of gameplay and engine features, to say nothing of more specific gameplay details.  The criticizing of a new game in a series is nothing new in the SF/fighting game community.  The only thing new is that SF4 players don’t seem to understand or tolerate it, and seek to dimiss it as elitism.

If you’re good at SF4 you understand its system. Which means you can break down fighting game systems in general.

I used to play a lot of sf4 and was quite good at it, I then got some of my local buddies that were also good at sf4 into CvS2 and they picked it up relatively fast and although they aren’t tourney level players, they definitely aren’t free.

You not being able to judge them as good players is your fault because you aren’t knowledgeable on sf4 at all. It doesn’t give you the right to question their fighting game skill at all which is what I’m assuming you mean by “the traditional sense”, and for the most part most top sf4 players play other games at high levels.

You can’t compare apples to oranges can you? If you came from strictly a CvS2 background and suddenly were exposed to ST Vega you would think to yourself why the fuck is this guy going off the wall so much. Obviously after playing ST for a few seconds you’ll realize how good vega walldives are so perhaps that’s an extreme example but you understand my analogy I’m sure.

If you’re good at SF4 you understand its system. Which means you can break down fighting game systems in general.

I used to play a lot of sf4 and was quite good at it, I then got some of my local buddies that were also good at sf4 into CvS2 and they picked it up relatively fast and although they aren’t tourney level players, they definitely aren’t free.

You not being able to judge them as good players is your fault because you aren’t knowledgeable on sf4 at all. It doesn’t give you the right to question their fighting game skill at all which is what I’m assuming you mean by “the traditional sense”, and for the most part most top sf4 players play other games at high levels.

You can’t compare apples to oranges can you? If you came from strictly a CvS2 background and suddenly were exposed to ST Vega you would think to yourself why the fuck is this guy going off the wall so much. Obviously after playing ST for a few seconds you’ll realize how good vega walldives are so perhaps that’s an extreme example but you understand my analogy I’m sure.

If you’re good at SF4 you understand its system. Which means you can break down fighting game systems in general.

I used to play a lot of sf4 and was quite good at it, I then got some of my local buddies that were also good at sf4 into CvS2 and they picked it up relatively fast and although they aren’t tourney level players, they definitely aren’t free.

You not being able to judge them as good players is your fault because you aren’t knowledgeable on sf4 at all. It doesn’t give you the right to question their fighting game skill at all which is what I’m assuming you mean by “the traditional sense”, and for the most part most top sf4 players play other games at high levels.

You can’t compare apples to oranges can you? If you came from strictly a CvS2 background and suddenly were exposed to ST Vega you would think to yourself why the fuck is this guy going off the wall so much. Obviously after playing ST for a few seconds you’ll realize how good vega walldives are so perhaps that’s an extreme example but you understand my analogy I’m sure.

If you’re good at SF4 you understand its system. Which means you can break down fighting game systems in general.

I used to play a lot of sf4 and was quite good at it, I then got some of my local buddies that were also good at sf4 into CvS2 and they picked it up relatively fast and although they aren’t tourney level players, they definitely aren’t free.

You not being able to judge them as good players is your fault because you aren’t knowledgeable on sf4 at all. It doesn’t give you the right to question their fighting game skill at all which is what I’m assuming you mean by “the traditional sense”, and for the most part most top sf4 players play other games at high levels.

You can’t compare apples to oranges can you? If you came from strictly a CvS2 background and suddenly were exposed to ST Vega you would think to yourself why the fuck is this guy going off the wall so much. Obviously after playing ST for a few seconds you’ll realize how good vega walldives are so perhaps that’s an extreme example but you understand my analogy I’m sure.

Your Vega example makes sense, but if you’re trying to defend SF4, I’d avoid doing so by saying it’s like ST Vega walldive games.  While an accurate analogy, I don’t think it’s exactly the defense you intend to mount.

I’m not saying SF4 players aren’t good, least of all at SF4.  I’m saying the game seems profoundly awkward to me compared to many older games.  Why are people freaking out about this?  Every new game that comes out will face internal criticism from the community that plays it, and SF4 is certainly no exception. 

And there are certainly larger and less fair criticisms of the game one could state, compared with what has been written in this comment section.

it’s hardly a new game anymore, i’d say. i feel like youre just out of the loop to be honest with you man. it feels awkward to you because you’re not used to it. i’ve been playing vs fighting games for almost 10 years on and off and the sf4 engine feels smooth as butter to me at this point. play every day for two months and get back to me. when third strike online came out i played that for a few weeks (it felt very awkward for a day or two) and got back to sf4 and it felt awkward to me too.

take a step back and think about fps games, like them or hate them. if you play doom, wolfenstein those games feel pretty similar. now skip to the current generation of games, if you transition from those games to halo reach youre going to think that the engine feels really really heavy and awkward. but when you play it for a while it feels very natural to you.

it’s hardly a new game anymore, i’d say. i feel like youre just out of the loop to be honest with you man. it feels awkward to you because you’re not used to it. i’ve been playing vs fighting games for almost 10 years on and off and the sf4 engine feels smooth as butter to me at this point. play every day for two months and get back to me. when third strike online came out i played that for a few weeks (it felt very awkward for a day or two) and got back to sf4 and it felt awkward to me too.

take a step back and think about fps games, like them or hate them. if you play doom, wolfenstein those games feel pretty similar. now skip to the current generation of games, if you transition from those games to halo reach youre going to think that the engine feels really really heavy and awkward. but when you play it for a while it feels very natural to you.

No, I think you making sure you make a clever passive-aggressive comment at every possible opportunity makes you look like you’re trolling.

It doesn’t hurt that, beyond merely not preferring anything made after 1999, you actively insult, belittle, and mock both any games you dislike, and the players of the games you dislike. Every chance you get.

Which is the standard operating procedure of every front page FGC troll on SRK.

Then when someone remarks on this, you fall back on “it’s just mah opinion man”. Which is passive aggressive trolling 101.

No, I think you making sure you make a clever passive-aggressive comment at every possible opportunity makes you look like you’re trolling.

It doesn’t hurt that, beyond merely not preferring anything made after 1999, you actively insult, belittle, and mock both any games you dislike, and the players of the games you dislike. Every chance you get.

Which is the standard operating procedure of every front page FGC troll on SRK.

Then when someone remarks on this, you fall back on “it’s just mah opinion man”. Which is passive aggressive trolling 101.