Guest Editorial – Momentum Matters: A Historical Perspective on the FGC and Esports Communities by UltraDavid

Fighting game commentator Ultradavid has written an incredibly in-depth piece on  the origins of fighting game culture and how it compares to that of other gaming communities.  It’s a thought-provoking examination of how we got to where we are, and potentially where we are going in the future

Editor’s note:  The contents of this article represents the opinions of Ultradavid, and not necessarily those of Shoryuken.com or its authors.  We are posting this in the name of open communication and discussion on this topic.

 

Momentum Matters: A Historical Perspective on the FGC and Esports Communities

by Ultradavid

Recently I popped by the North American Star League, or NASL, in Ontario California to experience the StarCraft 2 scene firsthand. You might have heard about us trying to get hype with side bets. Maybe you heard that some of the spectators and stream monsters weren’t entirely happy about that. We even got on Reddit’s StarCraft forum and TeamLiquid.net for it!

But you might not have heard that most of the people there are actually very high on the professional potential for fighting games. In fact, some of them believe that fighting games are more suited to it than StarCraft. Most of the people at this SC2 event preferred SC2, of course, but those who understand fighters all thought they should be much, much bigger than they are today. I expected to have to defend my games, but I had to defend my scene instead.

What’s wrong with the fighting game community that we can’t accept professional tournaments or corporate influence, they asked? For them, the answer is simply that we wanna be underground and separate. They believe that we believe that going with Major League Gaming or whoever would be selling out, and that we don’t want to look like sellouts. They believe that we have to choose whether to get big or stay true to ourselves. They also believe without even realizing it that these are choosable choices for us that we can make with the same calculus and for the same reasons SC and other esports communities did.

And it was thinking about that last point that got me thinking about the real differences between the fighting game community and the esports communities. Yeah, we’re louder and more hype, okay. Yeah, we’ve been underground and haven’t yet shaken that mentality off. But the differences are much deeper than that. Whatever the relative merit of fighting games to RTS, FPS, or MOBA games is, the fact is that our community is very deeply different in ways that make us less accepting of and less fitting for professional tournaments and corporate influence even as they’ve given us the ability to stay so cohesive for so long. We are very deeply ourselves, and not many of us want to see that go away. There’s quite a bit of misunderstanding here. Let me see if I can dispel it.

It’s not just that we’re louder

Simply put, we’re the products of two extremely different environments: the arcade and the personal computer. The fighting game community, or FGC, comes from loud, gross, confrontational arcades where players had to bet a quarter they’d win every single time they stepped up and where battle for control of side by side elbow space with the current champion was almost as important as the strategic battle happening on screen, which by the way made up the entirety of the game’s viewable area. Nobody else has anything like this. StarCraft 2 is played on expensive rigs in games that can take an hour and that are played exclusively through an internet connection; even offline tournaments are played over Battle.net.

The results of these seemingly innocuous gameplay and venue differences are extremely wide reaching. Because of them, the FGC has tended to select for people with less disposable income and time, more socio-economic and racial diversity, less gender diversity, and fewer people overall. These differences then selected for even more differences: compared to the FGC, the SC community selected for a more business friendly, professional-ready culture and individuals who are much more likely to know how to navigate the professional corporate world. There are additional twists that come in as well, including some luck and some differences in game developer support.

We’re loud because we can be

There I was at the NASL single elimination 3rd place match with Potatohead, Sanchez, Offcast, Nasir, Magnetro, Pimpwilly, and MrJared. Holy balls, the 3rd place match! Get hype! So we did. And then someone’s adorable grandpa dressed up as a 20-something male gamer named Nick, came up to us, and asked us to stop yelling quite so very loudly.

Nick: “Hey guys, I paid $25 for these seats (note: yep, $25 spectator fee) and I really just want to enjoy the matches. I was watching from home yesterday and heard your voices over the commentators, and that kind of ruined the stream for me. I think what you’re doing is great, but… boy, I sure can’t wait for you to stop it.”

Us: “…Wat…?”
We got shushed during top 3 at a video game tournament?? WTF! At first glance that makes no sense to us. But let me explain.

StarCraft is a very complicated battle for resources, positioning, and information with lots of different things happening simultaneously over a much larger area than can be seen at one glance. Without either a practiced eye or a really good observer/commentator to tell you what’s happening, it can be pretty difficult to follow. And even if you do know what’s going on, it’s still way more enjoyable if the commentator can observe well, keep you informed, and entertain you during downtime. SC is also a complicated enough game that it requires significant mental investment from the start of a game to the end. If you miss a build order or an important drop or an expansion denial, your understanding and therefore your enjoyment of the game will be impaired.

Fighting games are different. All the information is on screen at once, the pace is extremely fast, the hype makes itself, and as a viewer the game music and sounds are irrelevant. Sure, having a commentator is nice, but nobody needs a narrator. We like analysis, jokes, hype, or stories, but we don’t need a commentator to tell us that Zangief just hit Sagat with a standing roundhouse, we already know. The bite sized nature of fighting game pace and the presence of time disruptors like ultra and super animations also means that you can come into a match midway or take a second or two off from paying attention without your enjoyment being too impaired. Of course it’s more fun and easier to understand late round play if you saw what happened in the first round, but paying such close and continuous attention isn’t quite as required.

One of these games needs a commentator; for the other, a commentator is icing on the cake. So we wanted to get loud and crazy because who the hell needs to hear anything or sit in rapt attention? But Nick wanted us to shut up because he wanted to hear the commentators and be able to follow all the action. Okay. I can’t hate on that.

Arcades can also be very loud and cramped places. If you wanted to talk to your friend, you either yelled or went outside. Even tournaments and console gatherings can be loud. You play with a bunch of people surrounding you and turn the game volume up, so you have to talk loudly to compensate. The only way to get your whoas heard by other people is by yelling. And while the game audio matters to the people playing, it could not be less relevant for anyone watching. Who cares if you drown the game out? There are also no chairs. With stand up cabs, even the players might not have chairs. So you get used to standing or being able to move around or sitting on the floor. This penchant for standing or moving around has continued even at lots of major tournaments, and even at Evo dudes tend to just plop themselves on the ground regardless of the chair setup. So we’re used to that kind of loud, volatile, active atmosphere. StarCraft fans are not. Don’t get me wrong, they’re not always used to chairs at their events, but they are used to relative quiet and to people sitting down in chairs if they can.

Then there’s another difference between the games: in StarCraft you manage resources and pilot your little manz about until the opponent says good game, and in fighting games you beat the hell out of someone until their character dies. That attracts a different kind of person. Why did I like Street Fighter even before I realized it was a strategy game? Because its obvious violence was a good release and I liked making my friends and brothers feel bad about losing to me. SC is about warfare, but its violence is much less in your face than any fighting game’s. And that’s not even counting what is effectively snuff porn in Mortal Kombat. Hell, remember Time Killers?

You have to understand this about arcade culture: it was all about skill-based dickery. When it was your turn to play, you put your quarter in and stood next to this other human being who completely ignored you. There was no hello, there was no gl hf, there was a wall of indifference or even contempt throughout the match. If you lost, you walked away without any acknowledgement from the champion, got back to the end of a huge line, and had long enough to wait until your next game to stew on your loss and really start to hate the guy who beat you. Maybe he was the best player in your arcade or maybe the best player in the country, but you could stand right next to him and talk with him when he was off the machine. Of course, you could only talk if you had respect, and you only got respect if you won. Oh you suck? Eat a dick, scrub. Someone new walks into the arcade? You give him the frostiest damn shoulder you can because he’s never earned your respect. It was personal and confrontational and insular, but you’d respect anyone who won regardless of race or sexual orientation. And eventually this cycle of competition led to friendships. Yes, you could get mad and yell, but there were important limits on what was allowed. Not everyone always followed those rules, but for the most part we became accustomed to a set of rules that included among them loudness, hype, and insularity. I’ve never seen any evidence of this atmosphere in StarCraft.

I also saw a very different situation at NASL when it came to personableness. The players and commentators are completely separate from the rest of the community, and I don’t just mean hierarchically. No, there was also a physical barrier called the Player’s Lounge comprised of frames and curtains you couldn’t see through. Extending from it was a roped off red carpet, at the end of which were soundproof booths for the players and a raised desk for the commentators. At no point did I feel like anything but some schmuck watching other people do things they desperately wanted me to know I cannot do. To me, coming from an arcade setting where even the best player has to play standing right next to you, that feeling is ass, but it’s what SC fans expect. To the extent that they’ve ever played against the top players, they’ve done so from their own PC with no more contact with their opponent than a series of tubes. For them, feeling separate from top players is natural; after all, they literally are.

There are also good reasons for them to section their VIPs off. Their players and commentators get mobbed way, way worse than ours do. I saw dozens of people literally run when it was announced that HuK, one of their best players, would be signing autographs. And in a game based so much on controlling information, soundproof booths are a necessity because you can’t let the commentators and crowd have all the information and expect them to keep it secret from the players. None of the players even wanted to play casuals after the tournament, something that always happens at FGC tournaments, but… no wonder! There’s enough money involved that playing is a full time job. If I had to play the same video game for 60 hours a week, holy crap, better believe I’d take some time off. It’s also more than a little harder to set up PC gaming at a hotel room than it is to plug an Xbox into a TV.

In addition, the near requirement for offline play in most fighting games mandates that new players come into contact with established players in person. Even though some of our best new players used to be training mode monkeys and online warriors, our tournaments and meetups are exclusively offline, so they can’t help but spend time living and breathing the in-person FGC. If you want to get good at fighting games, you have to hang out with other fighting gamers, plain and simple. This has resulted in new players’ adoption of much of the established FGC culture. What began with the release of Street Fighter II in 1991 is still applicable to the far larger scene we have today even though very few of our current members took arcade SFII seriously.

So that’s cool. Both scenes have good reasons for how they’ve arranged themselves culturally and physically. But the SC2 arrangements are very different than what we expect in the FGC.

Yeah, we’re loud. We don’t need to listen to commentators, we don’t care about game audio, and we’re used to loud noises and yelling anyway. We like heckling and going crazy and betting on stupid stuff. To us, there are some obvious limits and regulations on this kind of thing, but I can understand how we might come off as mean or brutish to outsiders who aren’t as familiar with our rules. Our best players are not separate celebrities, they’re people you can play personally or get hype with in the crowd when it’s not their turn to play. Those are our roots, and we’ve managed to keep them! Even relatively new players, players who started up after fighting games moved out of arcades, have consistently adopted these attitudes.

But StarCraft has a very different culture with a very different background. When Nick asked us to be quiet, it wasn’t out of spite. It was out of a sincere desire to watch his favorite game as people in his community watch it: with an in-house commentator, in his seat, without jumping up, and with fan made signs called cheerfuls. And much as fun as we had trolling NASL, I don’t want to cause any existential problems for his culture. I want him to keep on keepin’ on.

So these tendencies for loudness, hype, player approachability, and community insularity have often been the focus in conversations about differences between SC and other esports and the FGC. That’s just the surface, though. In reality, the differences caused by our arcade vs PC origins go much, much deeper.

Demographic differences

Straight up, it takes some dough to play PC games. You have to buy a nice computer and be able to update it fairly regularly. You have to buy a nice monitor, a nice mouse, a mouse pad, and have the space to put it all. You have to have a decent internet connection. You can play at a LAN center instead, but in North America that tends to be more expensive than an arcade anyway. You have to have enough leisure time to play games that can last up to an hour each. A game of Street Fighter in the arcades has been only a quarter for two decades and only takes two minutes. You can play at home forever for a one time fee of about $300 for a console and a game. I know people who still can’t afford sticks or consoles and can’t afford to play at majors. Hell, I know a guy living out of his car.

These different requirements have selected for fairly different socio-economic makeups in the North American SC and FGC scenes. I don’t want to seem like I’m claiming only rich people play PC games or that fighting gamers are categorically poorer; in fact, both sides have some high profile examples of exactly the opposite. But overall, the scenes tend to have pretty different levels of disposable income and free time, and the relative cost of entry has meant that SC and the other PC esports scenes tend to have more of both. Holy crap, basic tickets to NASL were twenty five dollars and VIP packages were fifty, and you couldn’t even enter the tournament!

But that’s not the only demographic difference. Unfortunately our country has found it really hard to break the link between socio-economic standing and race and education levels. At NASL in Ontario, California, a city where 69% of the population is Hispanic, the racial makeup of the attendees was so lopsided that a poll for audience race would only need three options: White, Asian, and Other. By contrast, fighting games have always had a very racially diverse population, part of the reason for which is likely linked with the low financial requirements for playing. And while I’m firm in my belief that my FGC friends are just as intelligent as anyone I’ve met in college, law school, and the legal profession, many of my friends never graduated college and many of those who did are doing way, way less fancy things than their brainpower might permit.

Consider also that StarCraft has always been playable online from anywhere. You could live in the farms, the suburbs, or the inner city and play just fine. But fighting games find their roots in arcades. Where did arcades tend to be biggest? They tended to be biggest in densely populated urban areas like Los Angeles, New York, the San Francisco Bay area, and so on where a central video gaming location was easily reached, had more people living close to it, could even get random foot traffic, and was important because it gave video games to people who couldn’t afford to buy consoles. In the US, urban areas tend to have fewer white people and more black and Hispanic people. There have been arcades in suburban and even relatively rural areas, but that’s not the norm.

So there are two selectors for racial diversity here: the socio-economic side and the location side. In both cases, SC2 tends to select for less diversity and the FGC tends to select for more. Over the years I’ve been part of the scene in the Los Angeles area, the San Francisco Bay area, the Washington DC area, and even London and Paris. In each location the racial makeup has been extremely diverse and has remained so, even in Europe where urban location isn’t correlated as well with racial minorities and in some places is even negatively correlated with it. This fact makes me think there’s some additional mystery factor in selecting for diversity that I’ve never been able to identify. But regardless, that diversity is undeniable.

I told Nick about one of my side bets, which was that Sen (a Taiwanese player) would scratch his face before Thorzain (a Swedish player). I lost. I said, “What the hell was I thinking, betting against the white man in an itchy face contest? That pasty ass dude gets three times the grease and ten times the follicles.” My casual racism made Nick, a white guy, visibly uncomfortable. Later on in the night I told some of the people I’d met how I hadn’t seen a black dude all day. Guess who was standing like four feet behind me? Yep, a black guy. Everyone else I was with kinda cringed. Me? What, I can’t say “black guy” in front of a black guy? Get outta here.

See, I’m used to being one of the few white guys in the FGC. I’m often the only one in the room. A huge part of our humor is based on our shared diversity and the harmlessly racist jokes that come from it. This kind of interaction isn’t normal in most situations, of course. I hardly want to make it seem like SC is devoid of diversity or any more full of people who are awkward around the topic of race than the US in general. But when a StarCraft fan hears Filipino Champ say “nigga” every 10th word or people rip on Peruvian Alex Valle as Mexican or me say Jews aren’t white when it suits me, I mean, he might not even know how to react.

Or she might not. There are far more women in the FGC now than just a few years ago, but there was an order of magnitude more at NASL than I’ve ever seen at a fighting game event. Part of that has to do with how the games are played. A woman can use the anonymity of online play to game and win without being hassled, and that can draw her in. Newer female players can also see female hosts and even female commentators and feel more at home. But arcades are dirty, cramped, loud, confrontational, and smelly, and our players often reflect that. That’s not exactly the most inviting situation for a woman. The fighting game scene is also the oldest competitive video gaming community, old enough to have its roots in an American culture that clung strongly to the view that video games were the exclusive domain of young men. Arcades weren’t for girls, and they looked like it. Then this crappy negative feedback loop started, with young males getting used to being able to speak negatively about women, which put women off, so the first part was reinforced, and then so was the second. Street Fighter 4, online play, and the general expansion of the scene have brought in more women, but we’re still a far cry from where StarCraft is right now.

The last demographic difference is size. Each of the esports communities is larger than the FGC. Battle.net has hundreds of thousands of people on it at any one time. Millions of people play console shooters every day. There are still tens of thousands of people playing Counter-Strike every day. We can’t compete with those numbers. Why the difference? I don’t know that I can really get into all the reasons that FPS, RTS, and now MOBA games have been more popular than fighting games. I don’t really know them. But suffice to say, they have been. They sell better and they never went through anything like our Dead Era. From 2001 to 2008, there were literally no tournament viable 2D fighting games released without an import-only restriction. As you might imagine, that put a pretty severe constraint on how much we could grow. Even in 2004 after our famous Daigo Parry moment, only so many people were gonna be inspired enough to pick up the five year old Street Fighter III: Third Strike. StarCraft went a decade without a true sequel, but WarCraft 3 came out in the middle and Blizzard never stopped supporting either one.

One obvious reason for the difference in size, though, is online play. The esports games are based on it. SC2 can’t even be played offline, players must always be connected online even at in-person tournaments. Live tournaments for other games are played on local area networks, but they can be played very competently online as well. Someone who takes an interest in one of these games can get almost constant competition and playable connections from his home. He can play whenever he wants and feel like he’s playing the real game. That breeds interest. In addition, as above, online play makes it easier for half the population, women, to enter and remain in the community.

Fighting games are different. A delay of even a single frame in a game running at 60 frames per second can mean a dropped combo, a missed opportunity, or an undeserved loss. To make matters worse, developers have often released games with poor netcode. For example, the online versions of late 2011 releases Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 and King of Fighters XIII have enough lag even in good connections that they’re essentially unplayable from a competitive point of view. People who take an interest in either one have to go to offline gatherings and tournaments if they really want to improve. That instantly raises the barrier to entry significantly. And as I said, our in person culture has not always been the most welcoming to women, so we’ve consistently missed out on a gigantic chunk of players.

There are online StarCraft 2 tournaments that can reach over 1000 people because the game is designed for and people expect to play on the internet. I’ve never entered an online tournament in my life and probably never will. What’s the point? To me, online play is ass.

So let’s recap. The fighting game community is louder, more hype, and more insular. It also tends to be less wealthy, less educated, much more racially diverse, much less diverse in gender, and not quite as big. Our new players have largely adopted the established culture and tend to fit the same demographic molds as their predecessors. Our scene is much larger today than it was just a few years ago, and with that has come more money, more educated people, and more women, but we’re still significantly behind the esports communities in each.

We are not esports

Even though fighting gamers have coalesced into an identifiable community, we’re not exactly a cohesive unit. In reality, we’re Street Fighter players, Marvel players, Tekken players, Guilty Gear players, Mortal Kombat players, Melty Blood players, etc. To us, each of those terms means something. Street Fighter players are mainstream, Marvel players are the craziest, Super Turbo players are old men, etc. But we’ve all come together to at least an extent under the FGC banner because we have so many commonalities. Our games can vary significantly within the fighting game genre, but they have more similarities than differences. We all come from arcade culture. Through force of habit developed through the facts that many of us play multiple games and no one scene was dominant enough in the past to create its own individual major tournaments, we all meet up at the same majors to play. We tend to also have similar demographics. So even though I’ve never touched Arcana Heart in my life, I still feel a sense of connection with AH players.

That said, some communities have been left behind. Before Mortal Kombat 9, the bulk of the FGC considered MK players to only be weakly connected to or even separate from the larger fighting game community. It had been so long since MK had had a competitive tournament viable game, over a decade and a half, that MK players had either stuck with the very old games or played competitively awful games that nobody else could take seriously. The release of MK9 has changed this to an extent, but MK players still tend to be single-game specialists, and although much of the rest of the FGC gave the game a serious look at first, few of them have stuck with it.

The separation is even more stark with the Smash Brothers community. Even though Super Smash Brothers: Melee is a legitimate tournament viable game, the differences between the Smash scene and the rest of the FGC have been too great for Smash to come under our roof. Smash players tend not to have our arcade history, which shows up not just in the way they act but in their tendency to tweak their games’ rules in a way that the rest of the FGC, with its history in virtually option-less arcade games, has trouble identifying with. Although it’s a myth that Smash players are all teenagers, it is true that they tend to be younger. This demographic difference extends into socio-economics and race as well. Evo worked with Smash once, and although the FGC actually enjoyed watching the Smash finals, the scenes were too different to get along well in a long term kind of way. The FGC hasn’t accepted Smash and Smash hasn’t accepted the FGC.

So I, a Street Fighter player, don’t feel that same sense of community with Smash players that I feel with Marvel players. My issue with Smash isn’t just the game. Hell, I loved playing Melee with my brothers. When the sequel, Super Smash Brothers: Brawl, came out, I tried to take it seriously and even entered tournaments for it. I enjoyed it. But I found the many differences in the community so off-putting that I quit after just a couple months.

So why has the esports community been able to coalesce as well as it has despite having such a diverse set of games? Why do members of the StarCraft, WarCraft, DotA, HoN, CS, Quake, Tribes, CoD, etc communities all consider themselves esports? My guess is that they find enough similarities in their backgrounds that they can all get along. They find their roots in online play, not in the arcades. They have relatively similar demographics, at least compared with the FGC. As I’ll go into later, they tend to be comparatively pre-conditioned to accept professionalism and be attractive for advertisers and sponsors in both games and communities. Their tournaments tend to be separate enough that whatever differences they do have aren’t pushed to the fore as quickly and seriously as they have been in the FGC. They don’t get along perfectly, of course; I know PC FPS fans have trouble accepting console FPS games, for example. But for the most part there’s comparatively little reason not to get along. One of the guys I talked with at NASL told me, “Hey, we’re all just video game players trying to play our games the best we can. That’s all.” So for him, whatever differences exist between his CS background and other games are too weak compared to this point of commonality to worry about.

But we in the FGC have a hard time accepting esports, and not just because we find the word “esports” such an incredibly sad, self denying, misguided attempt to borrow legitimacy from the world of traditional sports. We all know that esports has solid, tournament viable games. It’s just… how can we put ourselves under another group’s roof after having spent two decades making our own? This is not to say that we can’t work with the esports community. I absolutely think we can. But we can’t do it without recognizing what our different histories mean to us today.

Differences lead to more differences

Many of the esports people I talked with couldn’t understand why the fighting game community is so slow on the professional uptake. One of the guys I met said something like, “Two years ago SC was nothing in North America. People worked hard and took risks and now it’s huge. Why doesn’t the FGC do that?”

For one, as I’ll get to later on, this is hardly a fair assessment considering both how much work many of us put in and StarCraft’s own history of professional gaming and developer support. But they’re also right to an extent in that many of us are a little fearful of working with established businesses, of taking economic risks, and of trusting other people. And you know what? That’s entirely understandable. History has momentum. Our background informs lots of things about us, and from the perspective of someone in esports who wants fighting games to explode professionally, some of those things might be hindrances.

Look, I’m a nerd who became a frat guy who worked in media and politics, got two law degrees, and opened a law practice and a small business. This world of deals and corporations and wide reaching debates, that’s where I’m from man, that’s natural to me. And there are absolutely some players, tournament organizers, streamers, and business owners in the scene who had the same advantages. They tend to either run solid events, streams, and businesses or understand the business opportunities of playing. They were were bred for it.

But let me tell you a little about some of the other major people in this community.

A couple have spent time living on the streets or in homeless shelters. A couple others have been in jail. Another was a drug addict famous for not paying people back. Actually, a few of them were like that. Some had really bad family situations with abuse, theft, jail, abandonment, and so on. Lots of others had relatively normal or even excellent backgrounds but little in the way of business-related experience, expectations, or role models. These people are not from a business friendly world. They’re not well educated. They never enjoyed white privilege. And they were part of a scene that had all the above quirks and for a decade was as underground as it gets.

Fast forward just a few years and here they are as some of the best known players, tournament organizers, streamers, and business owners with fans, audiences, and customer bases in the tens or hundreds of thousands. They’re putting in work and doing a great job, but sorry if they might not adapt immediately to corporate proposals, putting real trust in others, and making economically risky moves!

Obviously some members of the SC and esports communities have similar backgrounds, it would be stupid to claim otherwise. But even if lots of members of them had the same disadvantages as the FGC people I’m talking about, there were so many more people in those scenes that some of them were going to be good businesspeople. Who’d have thought, but the comparatively large, economically well off, white, and well educated esports communities ended up with people who had the technology, knowhow, and entrepreneurial expectations to make things blow up! Some of them were even strong enough in this that they managed to survive the implosion of their native gaming scenes and continue on as casters and businesspeople in different parts of the esports community.

The fighting game community, by contrast, was tiny until relatively recently. Even as shooters were going through their ultimately unsuccessful first professional expansion, our major’s major was only getting a few hundred entrants and our first place prizes were in the triple digits. During the Dead Era, we had almost no support from developers or publishers and almost no attention from virtually any sponsors, advertisers, or media. But we kept doing what we were doing. Our cycle of competition had bred strong enough friendships flung far enough across the continent and world that we survived. Our hype machine proved irresistible for those of us who traveled to tournaments for it. Our insularity meant that we didn’t care when we heard about some other gamer making his first million. Who the hell was that guy? Never heard of him, bet I’d maul that scrub’s ass in Marvel for free. And even as this period was happening, our scene was actually growing, albeit slowly, thanks not just to the sheer quality of our games but to the staying power and attractiveness of our culture.

But keep in mind how arcade culture looks at outsiders and how our demographics aren’t quite as business friendly. Businesses that have tried to enter or dictate deals to the FGC have tended to fail. If our members don’t do it or aren’t asked to take active roles in it, we rarely accepted it. Again, if I’ve never seen you in this arcade before, then you’ve never earned my respect and it’s on you to give me reason to say what’s up. We’ve developed a completely homegrown roster of players, tournaments, tournament organizers, streamers, commentators, and businesses, in part because that’s what we wanted to do and in part because we and the mindset that comes with our history would have had a tough time letting it happen any other way. The pro team Evil Geniuses has had success supporting some fighting game players, but its initial entry was rocky. Many members of the FGC wondered why these outsiders were taking an interest in us. Perhaps seeking to avoid this, one of its main rivals, CompLexity, decided to enter the FGC on FGC terms by striking a deal with Cross Counter, a community developed business. With CoL.CC there was little of the rockiness and rejection that EG experienced as it came in, in part out of appreciation that CoL entered holding an olive branch. It’s not that we categorically reject outsiders, it’s that we need to feel people who want to work with us give us respect and are willing to consider our terms.

So while some of us have the training to deal with professional leagues and corporations, some of our other important members don’t yet have the background for it. But personal history is not an absolute predictor of the future. We all know people who have come from poor backgrounds or whose parents came from poor backgrounds and ended up doing very fancy things. People learn, especially people as talented and intelligent as the members of the fighting game community. Those people are going through an adaptation phase and progressing admirably. They have vital roles in growing this scene and I have nothing but confidence in all of them that they’ll be successful. After all, they could hardly have gotten to the positions they have today without being the kind of smart, driven people who identify their dreams and work their asses off to get there. Just don’t expect them to negotiate a major contract with a corporate multinational overnight.

So it’s not that we want to be underground. It’s that we were underground and many of us still feel like we are underground, even those who are working very hard to help us grow. You have to also realize that from our perspective, continuing on with our own scene-driven growth is not just an option, it’s what we expect. That’s how we’ve been doing it this whole time! In 2012 we’ll have Final Round Fifteen. Okay? There is some serious momentum here. We love our community and will do absolutely nothing to hurt it or the culture, events, institutions, businesses, and people in it.

I’m very much looking forward to a stronger, not just more popular, FGC. Believe me, few people stand to gain as much from a giant FGC as me, a commentator and an attorney with clients who would benefit greatly from an influx of money into the scene. I work every day to do my bit to get us there, and so do lots of other people. We won’t be there tomorrow or next week and maybe not even next year. But we’re on our way. Our gigantic growth in players, tournament, entrants, and stream views over just the past couple years makes that clear.

But StarCraft got so big so fast!

That said, our pace is not good enough for many members of the esports community. They want us to blow up today. This weekend I heard multiple times about how weak SC was in North America during Brood War and how quickly after SC2′s release it went from that size to having the most players, the most viewers, the most tournaments, the most money, and so on. Why did this happen to StarCraft and not fighting games, these people wondered? I think there are six major reasons: SC’s relatively pro-susceptible community, SC’s comparatively sponsor-friendly game and business-friendly demographics, SC’s much more successful previous encounters with pro leagues,… and Blizzard, Blizzard, Blizzard.

SC’s own history has helped it tremendously. StarCraft had a weird community in North America during Brood War because even though very large numbers of people played or watched it regularly (including me), it didn’t engender the same attachment to community. It ran online tournaments with entrants into the 1000s, but they were online, where a sense of community is relatively weak. Unlike the modern FGC, it didn’t have more than a dozen homegrown majors and several beloved idiosyncratic streamers and a twenty year history of amateur development. Instead, it depended hugely on professional broadcasts and influence from Korea. Because of its relative lack of attachment to its own homegrown accoutrements, it had less to lose in taking risks on professional gaming corporations. Indeed, far from the trepidations of the historically amateur FGC, the North American SC community saw the Korean model and expected professionalization. And again, compared to the fighting game community, it had more money and leisure time to spend and a wealthier, better educated, larger pool of people to draw on in supporting and promoting professionalization. It also experienced an influx of people from other esports communities who knew a good bet when they saw one and helped guide the pro transition. This resulted in SC having more and better businessmen who could work effectively with professional gaming groups, something that, again, the FGC is relatively lacking. In short, the history of the SC community predisposed it much more strongly to going professional.

The second reason that StarCraft and the esports communities blew up before we did is how well they fit with sponsors. Think of how many sellable, buyable things are involved in PC gaming. Everyone who makes or sells towers, processors, graphics chips, sound chips, motherboards, factory PCs, monitors, mice, mousepads, headsets, gaming related apparel, lifestyle brands, etc has a real, identifiable stake in the success of PC gaming, and PC gaming has been big enough for a long enough time that those companies can’t ignore it. The more people who want to play or watch, the more money those companies all make. Fighting games have consoles, monitors, sticks, pads, gaming related apparel, and lifestyle brands. That’s all! And the relatively small size of our scene until just recently has meant those companies have been able to more or less ignore us. I mean, it took until 2009 and the internal influence of a dedicated and important FGC member to get even one major corporate peripheral maker to start directly supporting us with joysticks and money.

Think also of SC’s demographics. Again, more money, more education, more white, more gender friendly. Those are things advertisers like! They mean that an ad is worth more to the companies paying for them because they tend to lead to sales more often. That extra value means that everyone involved in making people view ads, from tournaments to teams and players to broadcasters, gets more money. If a company can choose to market to either the FGC or esports, and even assuming the FGC was as large as esports, that company would be better off spending its advertising budget reaching esports customers who are more likely to result in sales. Remember seeing NOS energy drinks advertised all over FGC tournaments and streams last year and earlier this year? Well, no longer. But guess who’s still a major sponsor of MLG? No wonder there’s more money in StarCraft and esports. They’re built for it. The pro leagues had and have a much stronger incentive to get StarCraft 2 than they do Street Fighter.

Another reason for SC’s fast expand in North America was its prior success in other markets. The previous Blizzard RTS games, both Brood War and Warcraft 3, had already proved themselves strong professional games that could make boatloads of money for everyone involved. The experiments, mistakes, and successes experienced by the communities and corporations working with those games in Korea and China in particular provided invaluable models and demonstrations of success for other professional leagues. The importance of this earlier success cannot be overstated. From the perspective of a large corporation with significant investment and venture capitalist backing, even a perfect looking opportunity must be rejected if it’s been proven unsuccessful in the past. But if an opportunity has willing consumer interest in the target market, enough sellable and advertisable products to get good support, all the right demographics, and had already succeeded elsewhere, then it’s not exactly the hardest choice in the world.

By contrast, fighting games have not historically mixed very well with professional gaming groups. Tom Cannon goes over this history more in depth here (http://shoryuken.com/2011/12/04/where-esports-leagues-go-wrong-with-fighters/), but the point I want to get across is that neither side loved it. None of the games selected, including Dead or Alive, Virtua Fighter, Tekken, and Smash Brothers, was as right for the job as StarCraft 2. Dead or Alive’s problem was that nobody liked it. Virtua Fighter is respected by everyone, but it’s just never developed a strong North American scene. Tekken is respected and is an important tournament game here, but Tekken 6 had already been around for a few years and was slowly losing some steam. And while in my opinion Super Smash Brothers: Melee doesn’t get enough respect as a game in the FGC, the fact is that the FGC and Smash scenes are too separate to depend on each for support. But the real issue from our perspective is that we saw Tekken 6 join MLG and then die, and then we saw Melee join MLG and then die. There are several reasons for that. Again, T6 was already losing steam. There was a match fixing scandal in Smash. But in addition to that, the scene got used to bigger payouts and to the pros doing the work for them. What had previously been full community efforts were hollowed out, with a profit-minded corporate entity taking on a significant role. When that support disappeared, so did the scenes. And again, there were other reasons for their disappearance, but what’s important here is how the story is viewed in the FGC, and that’s what we remember. Far from the positive models for SC2 provided by BW and WC3, the fighting game experience with professionalism has left us understandably wary.

In short, not only did North American SC have less to lose in going professional than the FGC did, but the pros had less to lose in highlighting SC over fighting games as well. Their marriage and its success make complete sense. But that’s not to say that professional gaming groups wouldn’t like to get a major fighting game.

The biggest reason that SC2 was picked up by the pro leagues and part of the reason for the success of the scene is StarCraft’s creator, Blizzard. Blizzard’s support for SC2 has been extremely strong. I’m sure they didn’t release the original StarCraft thinking they had a competitive gaming goldmine on their hands, but as the Korean scene blew up they began to realize what they had. They started to get more involved. They gave contractual licenses to professional streamers and tournament leagues to allow them the legal right to use Blizzard’s games in public tournaments and online streams, which Blizzard could otherwise have prevented by exercising their rights under copyright law. At the same time, they let non-professional streamers and tournaments keep going. They tossed money at everyone. They designed StarCraft 2 not only with the tournament player in mind but even thinking of the tournament viewer as well, putting in all kinds of awesome options for spectators and replays. They kept the community involved with the development of StarCraft 2 to an incredible degree. Not only do they patch their games for free, but they let people play the updated version on a public server before the patch is even published so they can be sure their changes make sense. They even hold an event in Blizzcon where they have a panel of game balancers just talk with the community about their decision making. That panel might not sound like much, but to a fighting gamer it’s absolutely incredible. Blizzard isn’t perfect, of course; for example, they designed StarCraft 2 without the ability to play offline, which can be frustrating in some ways. But overall, they act in accordance with their understanding of how much money and pride is on the line, not a small amount of it their own. I cannot overemphasize how jealous of this I am.

The FGC has several important developers and publishers, but it’s no secret that the pro leagues want a Capcom game, either Street Fighter or Marvel vs Capcom. And Capcom has been getting better in their support of the FGC in recent years, but they’re still a million miles from even being across the street from the ballpark Blizzard plays in. Oh they’ll throw a poorly advertised tournament for a new game release. They’ll hire some unfortunate non-gamer actress to host a terribly designed show about a new release and make her talk like a 90s promo host about things we already know. They’ll set up events to let some of us play developing builds of their new games for a couple hours. They’ll even tell us about some, not all, of the rule changes to the most widely played tournament fighting game and their flagship series. Yes, they’re doing much more in this whole pre-release phase. But we’re not talking about pre-release efforts meant to increase sales of new games, we’re talking about post-release efforts to support the community, make money through the tournament scene, and create additional brand awareness and support for whatever new games come out later. Unlike Blizzard, Capcom doesn’t throw money at us, they don’t create real tournaments, they don’t give licenses to major tournaments and streams, they don’t guarantee non-professional tournaments and streamers that they’ll be free from prosecution. Not only are they not designing games with the competitive scene in mind, they’re doing the complete opposite and designing games explicitly meant to empower less skilled players. This refusal to stay involved post-release might finally be starting to change. Their decision to release the updated SF4AE: 2012 for free is a nice gesture, and as horrible as the whole DLC gems idea has sounded for Street Fighter x Tekken so far, the simple fact that they seem to believe they can continue to make money post-release is good to know. But recognizing that they can use the tournament scene to promote their game and make money while helping the scene itself has been completely beyond them.

So why is Blizzard so good and why does Capcom not see what they’re missing? I think the answer is as mundane as location of origin: Blizzard is an American company and Capcom is Japanese.

By all accounts, Capcom Japan’s corporate culture is stagnant. There is little incentive for employees to make good games or care about games after release. As often happens in Japan, people are hired into jobs with absolutely no chance for mobility, but they can’t really be fired because of the cultural stigma against it and the legal difficulties involved in doing it. American style tournaments also haven’t really existed in Japan until just recently. Super Battle Opera has been around for a long time, but it has very low payouts, no entry fee other than for qualifiers, and is around more to advertise arcade products than to satisfy players. Although events like GodsGarden are happening in Japan now, there’s still nothing like Evo or the other North American majors. The generally high level of fighting game play in Japan has nothing to do with tournaments and everything to do with the Japanese take on arcade culture. For Capcom, ignoring the tournament scene in Japan let alone outside it has been fairly easy.

Blizzard hasn’t had the same problem with its corporate culture. It realized that it can make money by supporting the tournament SC scene, so that’s what it did. Who cares that it had only ever made and released games? Get that extra scratch baby! That ability to recognize and exploit a market is something that we Americans are good at doing. It’s also been forced to care about tournaments to some extent. You don’t see what was happening with StarCraft in Korea in the early 2000s and ignore it, that’s just not possible. That explosion of interest and money was like nothing that Capcom has ever experienced.

Let’s take a quick look at other American games developers and publishers. Look at Capcom’s USA counterpart, Capcom USA. Know what they made? Super Street Fighter II: Turbo HD Remix and Street Fighter III: Third Strike: Online Edition. Say what you want about how those games turned out, but their development is based entirely in the recognition that the competitive community is important. Look at NetherRealm Studios and Mortal Kombat 9. Again, say what you want about the game itself, but NRS helped create and promote by far the largest prize pool outside of Evo for the PDP national tournament, worked with MLG, and has continued to patch the game for free to satisfy the competitive community. After years of failing to properly support earlier versions of Counter-Strike, even Valve has finally realized how important and lucrative a competitive community can be. It supported competitive DotA 2 right off the bat and seems to be maintaining that attitude in developing Counter-Strike: Global Offensive. Capcom Japan has consistently failed to consider any of this.

I mean, don’t think that the professional leagues don’t to get involved in fighting games. You don’t think they’ve wanted Street Fighter 4 for years? Come on. They want licenses to publicly perform, reproduce, distribute, and modify Capcom fighting game content and Capcom has said no. Personally, that’s cool with me; as above, I don’t think the current FGC is well suited to that and I want us to continue growing ourselves until we are. I just hope it doesn’t mean that Capcom will continue to refuse them licenses when we are.

With all this in mind, then, it’s not exactly rocket science that StarCraft blew up first. And in blowing up first, they’ve cracked into a market of pure spectators, people who never played Brood War and don’t play StarCraft 2 but watch SC2 broadcasts anyway. Those people have money and time on their hands and they represent even more money in everyone else’s pockets. Fighting games haven’t gotten anything like that yet.

What esports wants

The esports people at NASL had much stronger respect for fighting games than I expected. In fact, a couple of them even said that fighting games as a genre are more suited than StarCraft for major exposure and professional support. They recognize that fighters are both deep enough strategically for serious tournament play and also simple enough on the surface that anyone can understand the basics of what’s happening. The length of a match is perfectly bite sized, almost like how well football, with its short plays and frequent breaks, is built for television. The action is so exciting and fast paced that it’s hard to get bored, the ratio of whoa to time is just too high. Can I tell you how many times my friends and I have said all this amongst ourselves? And here was a group of esports people telling me the same things. Except we were at a tournament where first place got $40,000, hundreds of fans were willing to pay $25 to $50 each to come spectate, 50,000 people watched online, all of those numbers were considered relatively low, and it was their tournament, not ours.

So the conversations we had were not at all indictments of fighting games. They can’t wait for fighting games to blow up. They’re upset only with the fighting game community for being unable to do what they’ve done with their games: take risks, work with corporations, get investment backing, pick up major sponsorships, throw enough money at players, commentators, and media to support them full time, and so on. Why have games with such a natural fit in the world of professional competitive video gaming, well, not yet fit?

As I said at the start, the esports community believes that the reasons behind StarCraft 2′s explosion compared to our steadier but smaller growth is all about our choices. But I want to point out that their implicit question, “Why have you made such dumb choices?” is also a little fixed. People don’t make choices in a vacuum. Nobody starts out even. We can’t make the same choices with the same calculus for the same reasons, that’s just not how life works. Could we have made different choices? Considering our two decades of unique culture and history and their continued momentum… I don’t know. We’re working hard, believe me, and we’re getting bigger and better every single day. I don’t want to make it look like I’m upset at who we are, I’m anything but. I’m also very, very hopeful about our future. But the implied question is about our past. Although our games might be as good a fit for esports style stuff as yours, your scene was a better fit than ours, and that’s what’s made the difference so far. It doesn’t matter that alternating current fits a need better than direct if the person representing direct is Thomas frickin Edison.

Let’s keep the timing of this whole debate in mind. Did it come in 2010 when MLG picked up Tekken 6? No. Doubtless it made overtures to Capcom to pick up Street Fighter 4, but there was no major public push like there is now. This current push comes after Evo 2011 had 3000 attendees. It comes when we’ve put a major tournament attended by hundreds of people on one third of all weekends in the year. It comes as our major tournament streams have begun to push 30,000 viewers and our weekly tournament streams get to 7,000, as Justin Wong pushes 20,000 Twitter followers, as Cross Counter TV’s YouTube channel crosses 40,000 subscribers, as Maximilian’s YouTube channel crosses 13 million views. It comes as more companies are entering the fighting game joystick and pad markets and as the success of fighting game apparel grows. In short, professional corporate video gaming tournaments only began to make a strong public push for fighting games when fighting games started making money.

Nobody should be mad about this. The goal of any business, including my goal with my own, is to make money. And in any case, profit isn’t the only reason the individuals involved in professional gaming want to see us blow up. Part of their desire is about seeing other gamers do good and wanting to support people who play, commentate, and organize tournaments. In addition, people who are willing to work for professional video gaming corporations in the first place are already more inclined to see professionalism as a solution and a goal. For some of them, seeing a gaming community go pro is almost like a philosophical calling.

Some people think that our window of opportunity is now. If we don’t join up with professional leagues soon, they say, those leagues won’t want us in the future. I honestly don’t know what about our history and current trajectory makes anyone think this sounds right. After such consistent growth, why would we all of a sudden stop growing? Why is it so important that we give up our excellent community driven direction and steady growth in favor of some corporate control? Will our culture and games all of a sudden lose their attraction? I can’t imagine that happening for our culture, it’s just too awesome. The issue of games is a little more plausible. To be frank, a lot of people are worried that Capcom’s upcoming release, Street Fighter x Tekken, will be such a weak game competitively that it’ll either kill the professional interest or it’ll lead to weak community support if a professional group picks it up. But I see two possible scenarios here. One, we realize that SFxT is a bad competitive game and it gets rejected by everyone. In this scenario, the community will continue to play its current games, and that’s where the professional leagues’ interest will be. They aren’t idiots, they want the games people are interested in because those are the ones that bring in the dough. The other possibility is that SFxT is a good competitive game, in which case yay, we all play it and it’s the game MLG etc want to get. So what’s the problem? For me, any talk of missing a window of opportunity is grounded in a fundamental misunderstanding of both our community and professional gaming.

Can we work together?

The short answer is, of course we can work together. Just this past weekend, an event called BarFights was thrown in Los Angeles with the financial backing of an esports team, Complexity, and the event planning of its FGC partners, Cross Counter. It was very successful. There was nothing about the hype or planning or anything else that seemed out of whack. It was just an authentic fighting game event that happened in large part because of an esports influence. Evil Geniuses was the first pro team to make inroads into fighting games and nowadays everything is going great. vVv Gaming is doing fine as well. Neither team has mandated anything that players wouldn’t already do; they’ve let their players rock. After the initial confrontation between Nick and us at NASL, we invited him over, had a chat, and he seemed to have a good time hanging out with us. We even found other people at NASL who wanted to side bet! So yes, we can work together.

The real question in my mind is whether we’ll understand each other. Right now there are lots of accusations and media being created on all sides by impassioned people who unfortunately either haven’t taken the time or don’t have the tools to really get to know the people and scenes they’re talking about. No, we’re not just another esports scene, we’re different in a whole host of important ways that need to be taken into account. No, the esports communities can’t work with us in the same exact ways they can work with other groups. On the other hand, no, the pro leagues aren’t just out to ruin us. They want to make money with us and because of us, yes, but they also want to see other gamers do well. There have already been some examples of members of the esports community working with the FGC with good intentions and to good results. And no, working with professional leagues does not have to mean that we compromise who we are.

Look, some in the FGC worry that if we join up with pro gaming tomorrow, we’ll again risk the same kind of scene implosions that happened already to Tekken and Smash. What if everyone gets used to fancier streams and more prize money and then our game gets dropped and we go back to less fancy streams and smaller prizes? Well, that wouldn’t be a good thing. But I don’t think we should underestimate the strength of our community right now. We have 20 years of very strong momentum behind us. We survived the Dead Era, and while nobody wants to go back to being that small, there’s no reason to believe that we’ll stop getting any developer support and no reason to believe that our community efforts will be swept away. Because that’s what we’re really worried about, is the chance that our community suffers.

But if we work together in the right way, I don’t think that MLG having Street Fighter will mean that Evo will go away or even that time-honored majors like Final Round and Seasons Beatings will go away. MLG will have to consider who we are and what we want, and if they don’t, then I can see us suffering. I don’t want MLG to schedule an event for the same weekend as Evo or any other major. I don’t want them to act like they can control our scene, because that’ll just be destructive to both sides. Work with us and understand our terms, and I think we can make this work.

That said, I also don’t think it’ll be the end of the world if we don’t work with professional gaming organizations. I think it would be best if we figured out how to shake off our underground mentality while retaining the rest of who we are and getting more money into our scene on our terms before we went pro. Again, even though I have a lot of faith in the strength of this scene, I want to make sure that we protect it as best we can, and I think the way to do that is to ensure that we retain the same drive to do better and grow as a community that we’ve had for years. If we skip that step and join up with the esports community too soon, then I don’t think we’ll be as strong as we can be. I don’t necessarily think we risk the same kind of implosion that happened with Tekken and Smash; again, there were different factors there, with Tekken 6 slowing down anyway and a scandal and an inability to adapt to a new game in Smash. The modern FGC doesn’t have those problems.

We also don’t really feel the need to work with esports. We’ve had such a long history of doing things on our own that this choice between whether to keep working as we have or go pro with someone else almost feels false. Why can’t we get huge on our own? I’m convinced that we can. And if there are indications that the pro leagues would want to work with us largely on their terms or in denial of all the things that make the FGC what it is, then that’s we should want to keep doing what we’re doing. But that would be a terrible business decision, and I’d hope that they’d have better businesspeople than that. After all, their scenes selected for it.

We’ve been learning. We’ve been growing. And thanks to this whole sudden interest in us on the part of the esports community, we’ve had to really think about how we’re doing and what we want. In large part, our answers have been “We’re doing super awesome, thanks,” and “We want to keep being who we are, thanks.” In my opinion, knowing who we are and what we want is only going to result in more growth, even if we stay away from the rest of the esports world. To be crude, it’ll let us sell ourselves better, both as a community to new members and as a set of businesses to potential sponsors and advertisers. Our idiosyncrasies have helped make us as popular as we are today and they’ll keep doing so as long as we keep them.

I am so stoked about who we are, where we are, and where we’re headed. I love our hype, our closeness, our open tournaments, our players and commentators as just another part of the crowd, our diversity, and all the other things that make us who we are. Was I jealous when I heard that commentators for other games can make up to $5000 per appearance while I’m over here working for gas money? Sure, but not nearly as much as you might think. I’m too in love with my community to wish I could trade places, and so is everyone else in the FGC.

Look, we’re not inherently opposed to the world of esports. I don’t doubt that we’ll go pro someday. You know the only thing we’re opposed to? The word “esports.” Shit is straight clown shoes son, for reals.

TL;DR

[Editor's note.  Bravo if you didn't just skip to this part] The fighting game community is not like the esports communities. Our arcade origins and the esports PC origins have led to extremely different cultures in terms of loudness, hype, insularity, and approachability of players and commentators. Those origins have also led to very different demographics; the FGC tends to be less wealthy, more racially diverse, less educated, and less diverse in gender. In turn, these differences have led to the esports communities having more opportunities for sponsorship, being able to find more interested advertisers, and developing a better business culture. Along with some luck and successful models of professionalism in other countries, the result has been that the esports games, like StarCraft 2, have been a more natural fit for professional gaming corporations. We’re not esports and we can’t be treated like it.

Nevertheless, I think the FGC is doing a great job building itself now and slowly starting to get away from its insularity even as it retains all the other things about what it is. The fighting game community doesn’t feel compelled to work with professional gaming leagues. At the same time, I expect that we’ll eventually go pro, either on our terms with something we create or working with informed established professional leagues. I think we can work together. There have already been examples of that. But as in any business venture, everyone involved has to make absolutely sure that they understand the other side.

[Image via Miknayr]

  • Maniak

    Looks like a nice read! Starting…..now

  • Maniak

    Looks like a nice read! Starting…..now

  • Maniak

    Looks like a nice read! Starting…..now

  • http://twitter.com/MiiiiikeTran Michael Tran

    <3 Ultradavid

  • Anonymous

    Let me put on my #eSports reading glasses sponsored by mountain dew and I’ll read this right up .

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Howard/519809788 John Howard

      maaaan I forgot about FireBatHero, win or lose that guy made watching every one of his matches fun and hyper

  • Anonymous

    Let me put on my #eSports reading glasses sponsored by mountain dew and I’ll read this right up .

  • http://twitter.com/GDLK_Viz Adilson Bacelar

    I accept this challenge!

  • http://twitter.com/GDLK_Viz Adilson Bacelar

    I accept this challenge!

  • http://twitter.com/GDLK_Viz Adilson Bacelar

    I accept this challenge!

  • Anonymous

    Damn. I want only front page articles like this from here on out. UltraDavid has me spoiled.

  • http://twitter.com/Terrance_P テレーンス パースンズ

    I agree with alot of this. Im not saying the underground mentality has to die but it needs to be altered for Major things to happen for the FGC

  • http://twitter.com/Terrance_P テレーンス パースンズ

    I agree with alot of this. Im not saying the underground mentality has to die but it needs to be altered for Major things to happen for the FGC

  • Derek

    The basis of your entire point in regards to the crowds falls apart as soon as you use the NASL finals as a representation of a live Starcraft event.  Most events literally nothing like NASL. It’d be like comparing this year’s EVO to a MLG Tekken event.

    • http://twitter.com/AceOfCakez Me

      Sadly…It’s true. At the GSL, players and commentators walk freely through the crowd.

    • http://twitter.com/AceOfCakez Me

      Sadly…It’s true. At the GSL, players and commentators walk freely through the crowd.

    • http://twitter.com/AceOfCakez Me

      Sadly…It’s true. At the GSL, players and commentators walk freely through the crowd.

    • http://twitter.com/AceOfCakez Me

      Sadly…It’s true. At the GSL, players and commentators walk freely through the crowd.

      • Anonymous

         do korean girls in the audience still cover their face when they’re on camera?

    • http://twitter.com/AceOfCakez Me

      Sadly…It’s true. At the GSL, players and commentators walk freely through the crowd.

    • http://twitter.com/AceOfCakez Me

      Sadly…It’s true. At the GSL, players and commentators walk freely through the crowd.

    • http://twitter.com/AceOfCakez Me

      Sadly…It’s true. At the GSL, players and commentators walk freely through the crowd.

  • Derek

    The basis of your entire point in regards to the crowds falls apart as soon as you use the NASL finals as a representation of a live Starcraft event.  Most events literally nothing like NASL. It’d be like comparing this year’s EVO to a MLG Tekken event.

  • Derek

    The basis of your entire point in regards to the crowds falls apart as soon as you use the NASL finals as a representation of a live Starcraft event.  Most events literally nothing like NASL. It’d be like comparing this year’s EVO to a MLG Tekken event.

  • http://twitter.com/broccoman Jeff

    This is what SRK needs in terms of commentary.  Very good analysis.

    This explains plenty, both for the community, and for myself.

  • http://twitter.com/broccoman Jeff

    This is what SRK needs in terms of commentary.  Very good analysis.

    This explains plenty, both for the community, and for myself.

  • http://twitter.com/broccoman Jeff

    This is what SRK needs in terms of commentary.  Very good analysis.

    This explains plenty, both for the community, and for myself.

  • http://twitter.com/broccoman Jeff

    This is what SRK needs in terms of commentary.  Very good analysis.

    This explains plenty, both for the community, and for myself.

  • http://twitter.com/broccoman Jeff

    This is what SRK needs in terms of commentary.  Very good analysis.

    This explains plenty, both for the community, and for myself.

  • http://twitter.com/awsnapcaster awsnap-caster

    This was excellent and well-reasoned, I’m very surprised to see it on the front page.

  • http://twitter.com/awsnapcaster awsnap-caster

    This was excellent and well-reasoned, I’m very surprised to see it on the front page.

  • http://twitter.com/awsnapcaster awsnap-caster

    This was excellent and well-reasoned, I’m very surprised to see it on the front page.

  • http://twitter.com/awsnapcaster awsnap-caster

    This was excellent and well-reasoned, I’m very surprised to see it on the front page.

  • http://twitter.com/awsnapcaster awsnap-caster

    This was excellent and well-reasoned, I’m very surprised to see it on the front page.

  • Richard Carmichael

    Funnily enough, this article pretty much sums up the differences perfectly. I would have liked to have read more about the non-FG community, I would definitely choose UltraDavid to represent the FGC as our representative, should we need one.

    • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

      UltraDavid for FGC President 2012!

    • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

      UltraDavid for FGC President 2012!

    • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

      UltraDavid for FGC President 2012!

    • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

      UltraDavid for FGC President 2012!

    • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

      UltraDavid for FGC President 2012!

    • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

      UltraDavid for FGC President 2012!

    • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

      UltraDavid for FGC President 2012!

  • Moribund Cadaver

    Hands down the best article so far on the issues being discussed. David’s grasp of the situation is extremely clear headed.

    It’s difficult to add to something that comprehensive, but I will say this: the arcade and “underground” roots of the FGC are something more people need to have an objective awareness of as being distinct *things*. Most people who scream and shout about these issues, who come from that background, seem to lack awareness of what their own background *is*. They do not realize the reason *why* they feel the way they do. This leads to unhelpful screaming matches and trolling, where people don’t even realize there are other possible perspectives on the issues – there is just their way (the “right” way) and everybody else is wrong because they seem to make no sense by the lights of the arcade-conditioned person’s background history.

    If more people stop, take a step back, and look at the big picture, it will become possible to consciously make use of the FGC’s arcade venue values without being *controlled* by them.

  • Moribund Cadaver

    Hands down the best article so far on the issues being discussed. David’s grasp of the situation is extremely clear headed.

    It’s difficult to add to something that comprehensive, but I will say this: the arcade and “underground” roots of the FGC are something more people need to have an objective awareness of as being distinct *things*. Most people who scream and shout about these issues, who come from that background, seem to lack awareness of what their own background *is*. They do not realize the reason *why* they feel the way they do. This leads to unhelpful screaming matches and trolling, where people don’t even realize there are other possible perspectives on the issues – there is just their way (the “right” way) and everybody else is wrong because they seem to make no sense by the lights of the arcade-conditioned person’s background history.

    If more people stop, take a step back, and look at the big picture, it will become possible to consciously make use of the FGC’s arcade venue values without being *controlled* by them.

  • Moribund Cadaver

    Hands down the best article so far on the issues being discussed. David’s grasp of the situation is extremely clear headed.

    It’s difficult to add to something that comprehensive, but I will say this: the arcade and “underground” roots of the FGC are something more people need to have an objective awareness of as being distinct *things*. Most people who scream and shout about these issues, who come from that background, seem to lack awareness of what their own background *is*. They do not realize the reason *why* they feel the way they do. This leads to unhelpful screaming matches and trolling, where people don’t even realize there are other possible perspectives on the issues – there is just their way (the “right” way) and everybody else is wrong because they seem to make no sense by the lights of the arcade-conditioned person’s background history.

    If more people stop, take a step back, and look at the big picture, it will become possible to consciously make use of the FGC’s arcade venue values without being *controlled* by them.

  • Anonymous

    I’m very happy the way this can hold an opinion without jamming it down my throat, for the most part anyway. Good read.

  • Anonymous

    I’m very happy the way this can hold an opinion without jamming it down my throat, for the most part anyway. Good read.

  • Anonymous

    I’m very happy the way this can hold an opinion without jamming it down my throat, for the most part anyway. Good read.

  • Anonymous

    I’m very happy the way this can hold an opinion without jamming it down my throat, for the most part anyway. Good read.

  • Anonymous

    I’m very happy the way this can hold an opinion without jamming it down my throat, for the most part anyway. Good read.

  • Anonymous

    I’m very happy the way this can hold an opinion without jamming it down my throat, for the most part anyway. Good read.

  • Anonymous

    I’m very happy the way this can hold an opinion without jamming it down my throat, for the most part anyway. Good read.

  • Anonymous

    straight clown shoes, son

  • Anonymous

    straight clown shoes, son

  • Anonymous

    straight clown shoes, son

  • Anonymous

    straight clown shoes, son

  • Anonymous

    straight clown shoes, son

  • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

    real tl;dr:  ”I’m a culture head and have a personal investment in them being separate.  I did a pretty good job building my argument, but it’s in the end my own prejudices, phrased carefully”

    • Steve Reed

      Actually, he even admits that it’s in his personal gain for it to go mainstream, since commentators can make 5k+ an appearance, and his clients would be making more money (and hence him as well) once it blows up, but that it’s not worth sacrificing everything to make it happen artifically. But, I’m sure you read the whole thing before commenting

    • Steve Reed

      Actually, he even admits that it’s in his personal gain for it to go mainstream, since commentators can make 5k+ an appearance, and his clients would be making more money (and hence him as well) once it blows up, but that it’s not worth sacrificing everything to make it happen artifically. But, I’m sure you read the whole thing before commenting

      • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

        well I didn’t mean ‘vested interest’, but that sounds pretty hollow saying after the fact.

        I should have said ‘emotional investment’ that would have been more clear. 

      • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

        well I didn’t mean ‘vested interest’, but that sounds pretty hollow saying after the fact.

        I should have said ‘emotional investment’ that would have been more clear. 

        • http://twitter.com/SunshineLine Jonathan Yu

          Do you know what editorials are?

      • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

        well I didn’t mean ‘vested interest’, but that sounds pretty hollow saying after the fact.

        I should have said ‘emotional investment’ that would have been more clear. 

      • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

        well I didn’t mean ‘vested interest’, but that sounds pretty hollow saying after the fact.

        I should have said ‘emotional investment’ that would have been more clear. 

      • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

        well I didn’t mean ‘vested interest’, but that sounds pretty hollow saying after the fact.

        I should have said ‘emotional investment’ that would have been more clear. 

      • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

        well I didn’t mean ‘vested interest’, but that sounds pretty hollow saying after the fact.

        I should have said ‘emotional investment’ that would have been more clear. 

      • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

        well I didn’t mean ‘vested interest’, but that sounds pretty hollow saying after the fact.

        I should have said ‘emotional investment’ that would have been more clear. 

      • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

        well I didn’t mean ‘vested interest’, but that sounds pretty hollow saying after the fact.

        I should have said ‘emotional investment’ that would have been more clear. 

      • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

        well I didn’t mean ‘vested interest’, but that sounds pretty hollow saying after the fact.

        I should have said ‘emotional investment’ that would have been more clear. 

    • Steve Reed

      Actually, he even admits that it’s in his personal gain for it to go mainstream, since commentators can make 5k+ an appearance, and his clients would be making more money (and hence him as well) once it blows up, but that it’s not worth sacrificing everything to make it happen artifically. But, I’m sure you read the whole thing before commenting

    • Anonymous

      TL;DR “I failed reading comprehension in school, but I at least read the tl;dr so I can attempt to sound smart.”

      • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

        its not like most of the people responding here also don’t have their minds made up, word came down how you were supposed to feel on the subject, afterall!

      • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

        its not like most of the people responding here also don’t have their minds made up, word came down how you were supposed to feel on the subject, afterall!

    • Anonymous

      TL;DR “I failed reading comprehension in school, but I at least read the tl;dr so I can attempt to sound smart.”

  • http://twitter.com/novriltataki Fighting Game News

    *’cornered’ theme plays*

  • http://twitter.com/novriltataki Fighting Game News

    *’cornered’ theme plays*

  • http://twitter.com/novriltataki Fighting Game News

    *’cornered’ theme plays*

  • Matthew D Shrum

    I appreciate the “bravo.”
    I don’t know where to start. I wish I could sit next to you and just talk all this stuff. I mean, everytime I talk to my friends about this it goes this direction. “Why aren’t they bigger?” And it just is not an easy answer. Well, its not a short answer for sure.

    Its reading stuff like this that makes me wish I was in the arcade scene at a younger age, but the changes are seeping in. Online is growing, but face to face is still the superior. Hell, I want to talk this essay, not just read it! Its torture here!

    But all those perks included, I’ll take a fighter any day.

  • Matthew D Shrum

    I appreciate the “bravo.”
    I don’t know where to start. I wish I could sit next to you and just talk all this stuff. I mean, everytime I talk to my friends about this it goes this direction. “Why aren’t they bigger?” And it just is not an easy answer. Well, its not a short answer for sure.

    Its reading stuff like this that makes me wish I was in the arcade scene at a younger age, but the changes are seeping in. Online is growing, but face to face is still the superior. Hell, I want to talk this essay, not just read it! Its torture here!

    But all those perks included, I’ll take a fighter any day.

  • Matthew D Shrum

    I appreciate the “bravo.”
    I don’t know where to start. I wish I could sit next to you and just talk all this stuff. I mean, everytime I talk to my friends about this it goes this direction. “Why aren’t they bigger?” And it just is not an easy answer. Well, its not a short answer for sure.

    Its reading stuff like this that makes me wish I was in the arcade scene at a younger age, but the changes are seeping in. Online is growing, but face to face is still the superior. Hell, I want to talk this essay, not just read it! Its torture here!

    But all those perks included, I’ll take a fighter any day.

  • Kirk Warren

    “tarCraft 2 is played on expensive rigs in games that can take an hour and that are played exclusively through an internet connection; even offline tournaments are played over Battle.net.
    The results of these seemingly innocuous gameplay and venue differences are extremely wide reaching. Because of them, the FGC has tended to select for people with less disposable income and time, more socio-economic and racial diversity, less gender diversity, and fewer people overall. ”The part about how expensive starcraft 2 and a pc for it is made me lol.  It plays on a toaster oven practically.  A fight stick, 360 and yearly live fee costs more than getting a gaming pc to run sc2. 

  • Kirk Warren

    “tarCraft 2 is played on expensive rigs in games that can take an hour and that are played exclusively through an internet connection; even offline tournaments are played over Battle.net.
    The results of these seemingly innocuous gameplay and venue differences are extremely wide reaching. Because of them, the FGC has tended to select for people with less disposable income and time, more socio-economic and racial diversity, less gender diversity, and fewer people overall. ”The part about how expensive starcraft 2 and a pc for it is made me lol.  It plays on a toaster oven practically.  A fight stick, 360 and yearly live fee costs more than getting a gaming pc to run sc2. 

  • Kirk Warren

    “tarCraft 2 is played on expensive rigs in games that can take an hour and that are played exclusively through an internet connection; even offline tournaments are played over Battle.net.
    The results of these seemingly innocuous gameplay and venue differences are extremely wide reaching. Because of them, the FGC has tended to select for people with less disposable income and time, more socio-economic and racial diversity, less gender diversity, and fewer people overall. ”The part about how expensive starcraft 2 and a pc for it is made me lol.  It plays on a toaster oven practically.  A fight stick, 360 and yearly live fee costs more than getting a gaming pc to run sc2. 

  • Kirk Warren

    “tarCraft 2 is played on expensive rigs in games that can take an hour and that are played exclusively through an internet connection; even offline tournaments are played over Battle.net.
    The results of these seemingly innocuous gameplay and venue differences are extremely wide reaching. Because of them, the FGC has tended to select for people with less disposable income and time, more socio-economic and racial diversity, less gender diversity, and fewer people overall. ”The part about how expensive starcraft 2 and a pc for it is made me lol.  It plays on a toaster oven practically.  A fight stick, 360 and yearly live fee costs more than getting a gaming pc to run sc2. 

    • Anonymous

      Wasn’t his point that people who built the scene played at arcades, which is like $0.50 a game?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

        Think of the guys that lose their fight money every time they enter the arcade but keep trying anyways :(

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

        Think of the guys that lose their fight money every time they enter the arcade but keep trying anyways :(

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

        Think of the guys that lose their fight money every time they enter the arcade but keep trying anyways :(

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

        Think of the guys that lose their fight money every time they enter the arcade but keep trying anyways :(

      • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

        the cost of an arcade adds up FAST if you’re not winning, easily can be $15-20 a day if you’re not good and can afford it (there was always that one guy that just can’t walk away, like a losing gambler)

      • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

        the cost of an arcade adds up FAST if you’re not winning, easily can be $15-20 a day if you’re not good and can afford it (there was always that one guy that just can’t walk away, like a losing gambler)

        • fermented

          Consider that playing at an arcade means that you aren’t playing at home where you would spend more money on electricity and internet bills.

          • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

            hah good answer!

            It’s kind of like how people use their PC’s to JUST play starcraft amirite?

            All joking aside, arcades were a serious habit to get into, and there was absolutely no way to justify the cost except for the joy of playing, no alternative uses.

            Who ever went in and played only one game?

          • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

            hah good answer!

            It’s kind of like how people use their PC’s to JUST play starcraft amirite?

            All joking aside, arcades were a serious habit to get into, and there was absolutely no way to justify the cost except for the joy of playing, no alternative uses.

            Who ever went in and played only one game?

          • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

            hah good answer!

            It’s kind of like how people use their PC’s to JUST play starcraft amirite?

            All joking aside, arcades were a serious habit to get into, and there was absolutely no way to justify the cost except for the joy of playing, no alternative uses.

            Who ever went in and played only one game?

          • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

            hah good answer!

            It’s kind of like how people use their PC’s to JUST play starcraft amirite?

            All joking aside, arcades were a serious habit to get into, and there was absolutely no way to justify the cost except for the joy of playing, no alternative uses.

            Who ever went in and played only one game?

          • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

            hah good answer!

            It’s kind of like how people use their PC’s to JUST play starcraft amirite?

            All joking aside, arcades were a serious habit to get into, and there was absolutely no way to justify the cost except for the joy of playing, no alternative uses.

            Who ever went in and played only one game?

          • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

            hah good answer!

            It’s kind of like how people use their PC’s to JUST play starcraft amirite?

            All joking aside, arcades were a serious habit to get into, and there was absolutely no way to justify the cost except for the joy of playing, no alternative uses.

            Who ever went in and played only one game?

          • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

            hah good answer!

            It’s kind of like how people use their PC’s to JUST play starcraft amirite?

            All joking aside, arcades were a serious habit to get into, and there was absolutely no way to justify the cost except for the joy of playing, no alternative uses.

            Who ever went in and played only one game?

          • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

            hah good answer!

            It’s kind of like how people use their PC’s to JUST play starcraft amirite?

            All joking aside, arcades were a serious habit to get into, and there was absolutely no way to justify the cost except for the joy of playing, no alternative uses.

            Who ever went in and played only one game?

      • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

        the cost of an arcade adds up FAST if you’re not winning, easily can be $15-20 a day if you’re not good and can afford it (there was always that one guy that just can’t walk away, like a losing gambler)

      • http://twitter.com/windsagio windsagio

        the cost of an arcade adds up FAST if you’re not winning, easily can be $15-20 a day if you’re not good and can afford it (there was always that one guy that just can’t walk away, like a losing gambler)

    • Anonymous

      Wasn’t his point that people who built the scene played at arcades, which is like $0.50 a game?

    • Anonymous

      Wasn’t his point that people who built the scene played at arcades, which is like $0.50 a game?

    • Anonymous

      Also I think you’ll find that most people pay more than 500 dollars for their PC, whether they build it themselves or buy pre built.  At least such a significant percentage do that PC part manufacturers sponsor events and players.

    • Anonymous

      Also I think you’ll find that most people pay more than 500 dollars for their PC, whether they build it themselves or buy pre built.  At least such a significant percentage do that PC part manufacturers sponsor events and players.

    • Anonymous

      Also I think you’ll find that most people pay more than 500 dollars for their PC, whether they build it themselves or buy pre built.  At least such a significant percentage do that PC part manufacturers sponsor events and players.

    • Anonymous

      Also I think you’ll find that most people pay more than 500 dollars for their PC, whether they build it themselves or buy pre built.  At least such a significant percentage do that PC part manufacturers sponsor events and players.

    • Anonymous

      Also I think you’ll find that most people pay more than 500 dollars for their PC, whether they build it themselves or buy pre built.  At least such a significant percentage do that PC part manufacturers sponsor events and players.

    • http://twitter.com/AceOfCakez Me

      Especially considering that Korean pros don’t play on ultra settings; according to them, the game plays smoother on lower settings. Thus, you don’t need a high end computer.

    • http://twitter.com/AceOfCakez Me

      Especially considering that Korean pros don’t play on ultra settings; according to them, the game plays smoother on lower settings. Thus, you don’t need a high end computer.

    • http://twitter.com/AceOfCakez Me

      Especially considering that Korean pros don’t play on ultra settings; according to them, the game plays smoother on lower settings. Thus, you don’t need a high end computer.

    • Anonymous

      it has not that much to do with price but to have the knowledge about PCs.
      Arcades and consoles do not require that. Just pop in a disc or a coin and you are set, Even patches are automatic. On PC you have to do everything yourself.
      Hence people not knowing much about PCs might get ripped off easily when buying or abandon the thing alltogether.
      One can say that PCs got easier while consoles harder to use. Still PCs are way off from having the same user friendliness of consoles regarding games.
      I have all this knowledge because my first experience with PCs (Amiga) began from the 80s, then switching to Windows and learning slowly. A PC was expensive back then too. Now they are cheaper but they still require a learning curve to know what you exactly want to do.
      A lot of lower income and education families are put off by this rather than the price. Because once they know how to use the machine and the games apropriately it may come out much cheaper than PC.

    • Anonymous

      it has not that much to do with price but to have the knowledge about PCs.
      Arcades and consoles do not require that. Just pop in a disc or a coin and you are set, Even patches are automatic. On PC you have to do everything yourself.
      Hence people not knowing much about PCs might get ripped off easily when buying or abandon the thing alltogether.
      One can say that PCs got easier while consoles harder to use. Still PCs are way off from having the same user friendliness of consoles regarding games.
      I have all this knowledge because my first experience with PCs (Amiga) began from the 80s, then switching to Windows and learning slowly. A PC was expensive back then too. Now they are cheaper but they still require a learning curve to know what you exactly want to do.
      A lot of lower income and education families are put off by this rather than the price. Because once they know how to use the machine and the games apropriately it may come out much cheaper than PC.

    • Anonymous

      it has not that much to do with price but to have the knowledge about PCs.
      Arcades and consoles do not require that. Just pop in a disc or a coin and you are set, Even patches are automatic. On PC you have to do everything yourself.
      Hence people not knowing much about PCs might get ripped off easily when buying or abandon the thing alltogether.
      One can say that PCs got easier while consoles harder to use. Still PCs are way off from having the same user friendliness of consoles regarding games.
      I have all this knowledge because my first experience with PCs (Amiga) began from the 80s, then switching to Windows and learning slowly. A PC was expensive back then too. Now they are cheaper but they still require a learning curve to know what you exactly want to do.
      A lot of lower income and education families are put off by this rather than the price. Because once they know how to use the machine and the games apropriately it may come out much cheaper than PC.

    • Anonymous

      it has not that much to do with price but to have the knowledge about PCs.
      Arcades and consoles do not require that. Just pop in a disc or a coin and you are set, Even patches are automatic. On PC you have to do everything yourself.
      Hence people not knowing much about PCs might get ripped off easily when buying or abandon the thing alltogether.
      One can say that PCs got easier while consoles harder to use. Still PCs are way off from having the same user friendliness of consoles regarding games.
      I have all this knowledge because my first experience with PCs (Amiga) began from the 80s, then switching to Windows and learning slowly. A PC was expensive back then too. Now they are cheaper but they still require a learning curve to know what you exactly want to do.
      A lot of lower income and education families are put off by this rather than the price. Because once they know how to use the machine and the games apropriately it may come out much cheaper than PC.

    • Anonymous

      it has not that much to do with price but to have the knowledge about PCs.
      Arcades and consoles do not require that. Just pop in a disc or a coin and you are set, Even patches are automatic. On PC you have to do everything yourself.
      Hence people not knowing much about PCs might get ripped off easily when buying or abandon the thing alltogether.
      One can say that PCs got easier while consoles harder to use. Still PCs are way off from having the same user friendliness of consoles regarding games.
      I have all this knowledge because my first experience with PCs (Amiga) began from the 80s, then switching to Windows and learning slowly. A PC was expensive back then too. Now they are cheaper but they still require a learning curve to know what you exactly want to do.
      A lot of lower income and education families are put off by this rather than the price. Because once they know how to use the machine and the games apropriately it may come out much cheaper than PC.

    • Anonymous

      it has not that much to do with price but to have the knowledge about PCs.
      Arcades and consoles do not require that. Just pop in a disc or a coin and you are set, Even patches are automatic. On PC you have to do everything yourself.
      Hence people not knowing much about PCs might get ripped off easily when buying or abandon the thing alltogether.
      One can say that PCs got easier while consoles harder to use. Still PCs are way off from having the same user friendliness of consoles regarding games.
      I have all this knowledge because my first experience with PCs (Amiga) began from the 80s, then switching to Windows and learning slowly. A PC was expensive back then too. Now they are cheaper but they still require a learning curve to know what you exactly want to do.
      A lot of lower income and education families are put off by this rather than the price. Because once they know how to use the machine and the games apropriately it may come out much cheaper than PC.

    • http://www.facebook.com/junkimchi Jun Kim

      I would like to see SC2 run on a ~$400 computer at a professional level…(price of console and stick)

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nathan-Topousis/594164388 Nathan Topousis

       Pro SC players don’t want a PC to just run SC. You want the best machine possible to ensure that there is absolutely no lag from your processor or internet connection.
      Saying this is like saying that an SE is the same as a TE. You CAN play with both, but one is far superior to the other.

  • Kirk Warren

    “tarCraft 2 is played on expensive rigs in games that can take an hour and that are played exclusively through an internet connection; even offline tournaments are played over Battle.net.
    The results of these seemingly innocuous gameplay and venue differences are extremely wide reaching. Because of them, the FGC has tended to select for people with less disposable income and time, more socio-economic and racial diversity, less gender diversity, and fewer people overall. ”The part about how expensive starcraft 2 and a pc for it is made me lol.  It plays on a toaster oven practically.  A fight stick, 360 and yearly live fee costs more than getting a gaming pc to run sc2. 

  • Kirk Warren

    “tarCraft 2 is played on expensive rigs in games that can take an hour and that are played exclusively through an internet connection; even offline tournaments are played over Battle.net.
    The results of these seemingly innocuous gameplay and venue differences are extremely wide reaching. Because of them, the FGC has tended to select for people with less disposable income and time, more socio-economic and racial diversity, less gender diversity, and fewer people overall. ”The part about how expensive starcraft 2 and a pc for it is made me lol.  It plays on a toaster oven practically.  A fight stick, 360 and yearly live fee costs more than getting a gaming pc to run sc2. 

  • Kirk Warren

    “tarCraft 2 is played on expensive rigs in games that can take an hour and that are played exclusively through an internet connection; even offline tournaments are played over Battle.net.
    The results of these seemingly innocuous gameplay and venue differences are extremely wide reaching. Because of them, the FGC has tended to select for people with less disposable income and time, more socio-economic and racial diversity, less gender diversity, and fewer people overall. ”The part about how expensive starcraft 2 and a pc for it is made me lol.  It plays on a toaster oven practically.  A fight stick, 360 and yearly live fee costs more than getting a gaming pc to run sc2. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Eugene-Statzer/542814784 Joshua Eugene Statzer

    Anyone have a link to them being mentioned on team liquid? I haven’t run into that before while there.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Eugene-Statzer/542814784 Joshua Eugene Statzer

    Anyone have a link to them being mentioned on team liquid? I haven’t run into that before while there.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Eugene-Statzer/542814784 Joshua Eugene Statzer

    Anyone have a link to them being mentioned on team liquid? I haven’t run into that before while there.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Eugene-Statzer/542814784 Joshua Eugene Statzer

    Anyone have a link to them being mentioned on team liquid? I haven’t run into that before while there.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Eugene-Statzer/542814784 Joshua Eugene Statzer

    Anyone have a link to them being mentioned on team liquid? I haven’t run into that before while there.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Eugene-Statzer/542814784 Joshua Eugene Statzer

    Anyone have a link to them being mentioned on team liquid? I haven’t run into that before while there.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Eugene-Statzer/542814784 Joshua Eugene Statzer

    Anyone have a link to them being mentioned on team liquid? I haven’t run into that before while there.

  • http://twitter.com/SteelyHawke J.M.

    Let me get my reading glasses.

  • http://twitter.com/SteelyHawke J.M.

    Let me get my reading glasses.

  • Anonymous

    I think the dam will finally break when Capcom starts to act a little bit more like Blizzard. 

    You know crazy stuff like sponsoring prizes, tournaments, and player teams in a game that’s one of your flagship franchises? 

    Realizing that free advertising via tournament streams leads to increased sales of product, DLC, liscensed content, and overall gamer awareness?

  • Anonymous

    I think the dam will finally break when Capcom starts to act a little bit more like Blizzard. 

    You know crazy stuff like sponsoring prizes, tournaments, and player teams in a game that’s one of your flagship franchises? 

    Realizing that free advertising via tournament streams leads to increased sales of product, DLC, liscensed content, and overall gamer awareness?

    • http://twitter.com/broccoman Jeff

      This won’t happen until Capcom gets real sales competition and has to care more about the fans then they currently do.  It will take a really successful Namco or NRS to put Capcom on their game again.

  • Anonymous

    I think the dam will finally break when Capcom starts to act a little bit more like Blizzard. 

    You know crazy stuff like sponsoring prizes, tournaments, and player teams in a game that’s one of your flagship franchises? 

    Realizing that free advertising via tournament streams leads to increased sales of product, DLC, liscensed content, and overall gamer awareness?

  • http://www.facebook.com/DukAmok Ryan Keshav Iyengar

    quite an enjoyable read, nice work! either way, through corporate assimilation or more “natural” growth, i’m pretty excited to see the future of the FGC as part of the larger esports community. continue writing op-eds like this, and i think people will have a reasonable frame from which to discuss that growth, a pleasant alternative to the normal misguided conversation that tends to dominate a space that lacks strong and level headed voices like yours.

    • http://twitter.com/rettust thomas

      dukamok detected

    • http://twitter.com/rettust thomas

      dukamok detected

  • http://www.facebook.com/DukAmok Ryan Keshav Iyengar

    quite an enjoyable read, nice work! either way, through corporate assimilation or more “natural” growth, i’m pretty excited to see the future of the FGC as part of the larger esports community. continue writing op-eds like this, and i think people will have a reasonable frame from which to discuss that growth, a pleasant alternative to the normal misguided conversation that tends to dominate a space that lacks strong and level headed voices like yours.

  • http://www.facebook.com/DukAmok Ryan Keshav Iyengar

    quite an enjoyable read, nice work! either way, through corporate assimilation or more “natural” growth, i’m pretty excited to see the future of the FGC as part of the larger esports community. continue writing op-eds like this, and i think people will have a reasonable frame from which to discuss that growth, a pleasant alternative to the normal misguided conversation that tends to dominate a space that lacks strong and level headed voices like yours.

  • http://www.facebook.com/DukAmok Ryan Keshav Iyengar

    quite an enjoyable read, nice work! either way, through corporate assimilation or more “natural” growth, i’m pretty excited to see the future of the FGC as part of the larger esports community. continue writing op-eds like this, and i think people will have a reasonable frame from which to discuss that growth, a pleasant alternative to the normal misguided conversation that tends to dominate a space that lacks strong and level headed voices like yours.

  • http://www.facebook.com/DukAmok Ryan Keshav Iyengar

    quite an enjoyable read, nice work! either way, through corporate assimilation or more “natural” growth, i’m pretty excited to see the future of the FGC as part of the larger esports community. continue writing op-eds like this, and i think people will have a reasonable frame from which to discuss that growth, a pleasant alternative to the normal misguided conversation that tends to dominate a space that lacks strong and level headed voices like yours.

  • http://www.facebook.com/DukAmok Ryan Keshav Iyengar

    quite an enjoyable read, nice work! either way, through corporate assimilation or more “natural” growth, i’m pretty excited to see the future of the FGC as part of the larger esports community. continue writing op-eds like this, and i think people will have a reasonable frame from which to discuss that growth, a pleasant alternative to the normal misguided conversation that tends to dominate a space that lacks strong and level headed voices like yours.

  • http://www.facebook.com/DukAmok Ryan Keshav Iyengar

    quite an enjoyable read, nice work! either way, through corporate assimilation or more “natural” growth, i’m pretty excited to see the future of the FGC as part of the larger esports community. continue writing op-eds like this, and i think people will have a reasonable frame from which to discuss that growth, a pleasant alternative to the normal misguided conversation that tends to dominate a space that lacks strong and level headed voices like yours.

  • http://www.facebook.com/0oTESo0 Tesimale Togia

    Fuck didn’t notice how long that was before i was already committed

  • http://www.facebook.com/0oTESo0 Tesimale Togia

    Fuck didn’t notice how long that was before i was already committed

  • http://twitter.com/PredominantVag Drew Olmen

    How come I can’t do my homework but I can read this from top to bottom no problem?

  • Anonymous

    No I haven’t read the entire thing…yet. But I have been paying a little attention to all the talks and discussions leading up to the this whole sort of debate. I think the FGC has something truly amazing, imo the best competitive gaming community out there. But when it comes to expanding, risks have to be taken. It seems like these other smaller communities within the FGC (Tekken, MK9, KoF, etc) would be much more willing for these games to be picked up into other leagues because they don’t get as much attention where as Capcoms games are the star of the show. Maybe it’s just me, but I feel that some of the FGC is scared to make a move, worried and unsure what will happened to this long time treasured community, and that everyone will forget where they came from, and then ruining the whole scene all together. 

    I definitely believe that if we don’t work with the FGC we will still be fine on our own, it will just take much, much longer to blow up, and well..become more mainstream than if we were to push to get these games on other leagues. Here’s what I do not get, competitive players always wish for larger prize payouts, and many of us really do want to make a career out of all this. I think with the payouts we are getting right now, it’s not nearly enough to support a family, and perhaps not quite there for one person alone. With team salaries+winnings yeah that’s pretty nice. But back on topic, with these games being included into more leagues, wouldn’t this really help out players greatly that are looking to seriously make a living off of this? Wouldn’t this really help team sponsorship grow, due to their brand being advertised and recognized at much larger events to a much more wider scale of people? I think a lot of us would love to do this for a career, and making these FG’s become apart of bigger leagues would help that cause quite a bit.

    eSports as a term, yeah, sounds a little funky, but competitive gaming sounds a bit lacking to me as well, but perhaps it’s just my mindset of something competitive. When I hear competitive gaming I hear “You’re being competitive while you’re playing” Ok? you’re a competitive gamer, what’s your point? While I sit at home playing Halo on my couch I feel as if I playing competitive as well. I think when we use the term competitive gamer, it really does not separate us much from the gamer’s that sit at home and play online all day at all. For many when they hear the word casual gamer, they think Nintendo Wii and rated E games, RPG’s, or just playing to eat time and have fun. But when the word competitive comes up, it’s usually taken more as a hardcore term, and people think playing CoD online, and kicking ass, and you’re out to get blood. Not necessarily, going to tournaments/leagues, and looking to win and make a career out of it all. That’s why I personally prefer the term eSports, it’s a bit more clear and defining (still funky, and cheesy though) than competitive gaming. When you mention eSports , I feel people will get more of an instant grasp of what you’re talking about if they know you are a gamer. “Electronic sports” Playing video games in a more sport type format, tournaments, teams, leagues, international, etc. So I really don’t understand why this word is so disliked among the community.

    Overall while I do think getting the FGC involved with leagues and such is not only important for it’s growth, but important for eSports community or Competitive gaming community as a whole. A lot of people in the U.S play fighting games, if you ask me, it’s much more entertaining to watch than Halo, or SC2. But at the same time I believe we should start out small, start fresh in 2012, and really take the time to ourselves, our communities etc, and think about what would truly be best for everyone as a whole, and if we are going to expand alone, how we are going to do it other than just holding tournaments year after year expecting numbers to grow like crazy (although they do) But to actually put some thought and innovation into what we develop as a community. While it’s unfortunate, money is a HUGE, part of the situation for many people. I know some of the good apples have the right mentality and know that money isn’t everything. But people here in the U.S will do anything for some good cash. Think about it, if SC2 grows like it’s growing now in the U.S, and more leagues begin to develop here, cash prizes begin to grow dramatically (Really guys’, a $1mil for 1st place team at CoD XP. Call of Duty!!!?!?! Call of Duty???!?!?!?!?) Not to mention it was the first CoD XP and they will do it again next year. But as I’m saying, if they grow, surpass the FGC big time here in the U.S, the ones who play for the $ (which is a large amount believe it or not) will move on and we could even loose people, it’s not certain but it’s surely a possible, yeah a large amount of us love SF4, but those who don’t and play other FG’s are begging to leagues to pick the games up, because these players see opportunities that us Capcom gamer’s do not, because we feel we have it all right now as things are. Just something to think about. Flame me, spam me, hate me, yeah this is a bit to long xD

    TL;DR

    Let’s not be left behind, let’s try thing, keep our heads together. And not only make decisions for ourselves as players but the entire community, and that included the competitive gaming community as a whole. Life is made up of risks.

  • Anonymous

    No I haven’t read the entire thing…yet. But I have been paying a little attention to all the talks and discussions leading up to the this whole sort of debate. I think the FGC has something truly amazing, imo the best competitive gaming community out there. But when it comes to expanding, risks have to be taken. It seems like these other smaller communities within the FGC (Tekken, MK9, KoF, etc) would be much more willing for these games to be picked up into other leagues because they don’t get as much attention where as Capcoms games are the star of the show. Maybe it’s just me, but I feel that some of the FGC is scared to make a move, worried and unsure what will happened to this long time treasured community, and that everyone will forget where they came from, and then ruining the whole scene all together. 

    I definitely believe that if we don’t work with the FGC we will still be fine on our own, it will just take much, much longer to blow up, and well..become more mainstream than if we were to push to get these games on other leagues. Here’s what I do not get, competitive players always wish for larger prize payouts, and many of us really do want to make a career out of all this. I think with the payouts we are getting right now, it’s not nearly enough to support a family, and perhaps not quite there for one person alone. With team salaries+winnings yeah that’s pretty nice. But back on topic, with these games being included into more leagues, wouldn’t this really help out players greatly that are looking to seriously make a living off of this? Wouldn’t this really help team sponsorship grow, due to their brand being advertised and recognized at much larger events to a much more wider scale of people? I think a lot of us would love to do this for a career, and making these FG’s become apart of bigger leagues would help that cause quite a bit.

    eSports as a term, yeah, sounds a little funky, but competitive gaming sounds a bit lacking to me as well, but perhaps it’s just my mindset of something competitive. When I hear competitive gaming I hear “You’re being competitive while you’re playing” Ok? you’re a competitive gamer, what’s your point? While I sit at home playing Halo on my couch I feel as if I playing competitive as well. I think when we use the term competitive gamer, it really does not separate us much from the gamer’s that sit at home and play online all day at all. For many when they hear the word casual gamer, they think Nintendo Wii and rated E games, RPG’s, or just playing to eat time and have fun. But when the word competitive comes up, it’s usually taken more as a hardcore term, and people think playing CoD online, and kicking ass, and you’re out to get blood. Not necessarily, going to tournaments/leagues, and looking to win and make a career out of it all. That’s why I personally prefer the term eSports, it’s a bit more clear and defining (still funky, and cheesy though) than competitive gaming. When you mention eSports , I feel people will get more of an instant grasp of what you’re talking about if they know you are a gamer. “Electronic sports” Playing video games in a more sport type format, tournaments, teams, leagues, international, etc. So I really don’t understand why this word is so disliked among the community.

    Overall while I do think getting the FGC involved with leagues and such is not only important for it’s growth, but important for eSports community or Competitive gaming community as a whole. A lot of people in the U.S play fighting games, if you ask me, it’s much more entertaining to watch than Halo, or SC2. But at the same time I believe we should start out small, start fresh in 2012, and really take the time to ourselves, our communities etc, and think about what would truly be best for everyone as a whole, and if we are going to expand alone, how we are going to do it other than just holding tournaments year after year expecting numbers to grow like crazy (although they do) But to actually put some thought and innovation into what we develop as a community. While it’s unfortunate, money is a HUGE, part of the situation for many people. I know some of the good apples have the right mentality and know that money isn’t everything. But people here in the U.S will do anything for some good cash. Think about it, if SC2 grows like it’s growing now in the U.S, and more leagues begin to develop here, cash prizes begin to grow dramatically (Really guys’, a $1mil for 1st place team at CoD XP. Call of Duty!!!?!?! Call of Duty???!?!?!?!?) Not to mention it was the first CoD XP and they will do it again next year. But as I’m saying, if they grow, surpass the FGC big time here in the U.S, the ones who play for the $ (which is a large amount believe it or not) will move on and we could even loose people, it’s not certain but it’s surely a possible, yeah a large amount of us love SF4, but those who don’t and play other FG’s are begging to leagues to pick the games up, because these players see opportunities that us Capcom gamer’s do not, because we feel we have it all right now as things are. Just something to think about. Flame me, spam me, hate me, yeah this is a bit to long xD

    TL;DR

    Let’s not be left behind, let’s try thing, keep our heads together. And not only make decisions for ourselves as players but the entire community, and that included the competitive gaming community as a whole. Life is made up of risks.

  • Anonymous

    No I haven’t read the entire thing…yet. But I have been paying a little attention to all the talks and discussions leading up to the this whole sort of debate. I think the FGC has something truly amazing, imo the best competitive gaming community out there. But when it comes to expanding, risks have to be taken. It seems like these other smaller communities within the FGC (Tekken, MK9, KoF, etc) would be much more willing for these games to be picked up into other leagues because they don’t get as much attention where as Capcoms games are the star of the show. Maybe it’s just me, but I feel that some of the FGC is scared to make a move, worried and unsure what will happened to this long time treasured community, and that everyone will forget where they came from, and then ruining the whole scene all together. 

    I definitely believe that if we don’t work with the FGC we will still be fine on our own, it will just take much, much longer to blow up, and well..become more mainstream than if we were to push to get these games on other leagues. Here’s what I do not get, competitive players always wish for larger prize payouts, and many of us really do want to make a career out of all this. I think with the payouts we are getting right now, it’s not nearly enough to support a family, and perhaps not quite there for one person alone. With team salaries+winnings yeah that’s pretty nice. But back on topic, with these games being included into more leagues, wouldn’t this really help out players greatly that are looking to seriously make a living off of this? Wouldn’t this really help team sponsorship grow, due to their brand being advertised and recognized at much larger events to a much more wider scale of people? I think a lot of us would love to do this for a career, and making these FG’s become apart of bigger leagues would help that cause quite a bit.

    eSports as a term, yeah, sounds a little funky, but competitive gaming sounds a bit lacking to me as well, but perhaps it’s just my mindset of something competitive. When I hear competitive gaming I hear “You’re being competitive while you’re playing” Ok? you’re a competitive gamer, what’s your point? While I sit at home playing Halo on my couch I feel as if I playing competitive as well. I think when we use the term competitive gamer, it really does not separate us much from the gamer’s that sit at home and play online all day at all. For many when they hear the word casual gamer, they think Nintendo Wii and rated E games, RPG’s, or just playing to eat time and have fun. But when the word competitive comes up, it’s usually taken more as a hardcore term, and people think playing CoD online, and kicking ass, and you’re out to get blood. Not necessarily, going to tournaments/leagues, and looking to win and make a career out of it all. That’s why I personally prefer the term eSports, it’s a bit more clear and defining (still funky, and cheesy though) than competitive gaming. When you mention eSports , I feel people will get more of an instant grasp of what you’re talking about if they know you are a gamer. “Electronic sports” Playing video games in a more sport type format, tournaments, teams, leagues, international, etc. So I really don’t understand why this word is so disliked among the community.

    Overall while I do think getting the FGC involved with leagues and such is not only important for it’s growth, but important for eSports community or Competitive gaming community as a whole. A lot of people in the U.S play fighting games, if you ask me, it’s much more entertaining to watch than Halo, or SC2. But at the same time I believe we should start out small, start fresh in 2012, and really take the time to ourselves, our communities etc, and think about what would truly be best for everyone as a whole, and if we are going to expand alone, how we are going to do it other than just holding tournaments year after year expecting numbers to grow like crazy (although they do) But to actually put some thought and innovation into what we develop as a community. While it’s unfortunate, money is a HUGE, part of the situation for many people. I know some of the good apples have the right mentality and know that money isn’t everything. But people here in the U.S will do anything for some good cash. Think about it, if SC2 grows like it’s growing now in the U.S, and more leagues begin to develop here, cash prizes begin to grow dramatically (Really guys’, a $1mil for 1st place team at CoD XP. Call of Duty!!!?!?! Call of Duty???!?!?!?!?) Not to mention it was the first CoD XP and they will do it again next year. But as I’m saying, if they grow, surpass the FGC big time here in the U.S, the ones who play for the $ (which is a large amount believe it or not) will move on and we could even loose people, it’s not certain but it’s surely a possible, yeah a large amount of us love SF4, but those who don’t and play other FG’s are begging to leagues to pick the games up, because these players see opportunities that us Capcom gamer’s do not, because we feel we have it all right now as things are. Just something to think about. Flame me, spam me, hate me, yeah this is a bit to long xD

    TL;DR

    Let’s not be left behind, let’s try thing, keep our heads together. And not only make decisions for ourselves as players but the entire community, and that included the competitive gaming community as a whole. Life is made up of risks.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kevin-Chiang/1006495495 Kevin Chiang

      sweet, way to completely disregard the article and hijack it to write your own half assed points which has all been well reasoned and addressed in advance before you wrote this. Why would we want to ruin the purity of our spirit with anything else other than the perfectly fine scene we’ve built with our own two hands. That’s what they did. We can get just as big as they have, with more promises to boot, people seem to put them for some reason as some sort of definite authority in setting the tone, etiquette, and stage for gaming. The thing is, we don’t want this fucking farce, this “etiquette”, this overdone demeanor that robs what we’re all here for; the hype, the excitement, and the fun we all play games for-all doing so while burning with the deepest competitive passions we get to release in each of our events.

      Why the hell would I care how my “gaming job” title sounds when I introduce it to people who doesn’t really know or respect it. I’ll still be the same person either way. Get over your fucking overbearing nerd professionalism delusion, and just play.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kevin-Chiang/1006495495 Kevin Chiang

      sweet, way to completely disregard the article and hijack it to write your own half assed points which has all been well reasoned and addressed in advance before you wrote this. Why would we want to ruin the purity of our spirit with anything else other than the perfectly fine scene we’ve built with our own two hands. That’s what they did. We can get just as big as they have, with more promises to boot, people seem to put them for some reason as some sort of definite authority in setting the tone, etiquette, and stage for gaming. The thing is, we don’t want this fucking farce, this “etiquette”, this overdone demeanor that robs what we’re all here for; the hype, the excitement, and the fun we all play games for-all doing so while burning with the deepest competitive passions we get to release in each of our events.

      Why the hell would I care how my “gaming job” title sounds when I introduce it to people who doesn’t really know or respect it. I’ll still be the same person either way. Get over your fucking overbearing nerd professionalism delusion, and just play.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_D3J3SZ2J4DZRCVYNJOHZJ3WABY Steamed

      wtf am i reading!? o_0 …. your essay could have been written in dot points and still not have conveyed any real information.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_D3J3SZ2J4DZRCVYNJOHZJ3WABY Steamed

      wtf am i reading!? o_0 …. your essay could have been written in dot points and still not have conveyed any real information.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_D3J3SZ2J4DZRCVYNJOHZJ3WABY Steamed

      wtf am i reading!? o_0 …. your essay could have been written in dot points and still not have conveyed any real information.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_D3J3SZ2J4DZRCVYNJOHZJ3WABY Steamed

      wtf am i reading!? o_0 …. your essay could have been written in dot points and still not have conveyed any real information.

    • http://www.facebook.com/junkimchi Jun Kim

      I stopped at “No I haven’t read the entire thing”

    • http://www.facebook.com/junkimchi Jun Kim

      I stopped at “No I haven’t read the entire thing”

  • Anonymous

    No I haven’t read the entire thing…yet. But I have been paying a little attention to all the talks and discussions leading up to the this whole sort of debate. I think the FGC has something truly amazing, imo the best competitive gaming community out there. But when it comes to expanding, risks have to be taken. It seems like these other smaller communities within the FGC (Tekken, MK9, KoF, etc) would be much more willing for these games to be picked up into other leagues because they don’t get as much attention where as Capcoms games are the star of the show. Maybe it’s just me, but I feel that some of the FGC is scared to make a move, worried and unsure what will happened to this long time treasured community, and that everyone will forget where they came from, and then ruining the whole scene all together. 

    I definitely believe that if we don’t work with the FGC we will still be fine on our own, it will just take much, much longer to blow up, and well..become more mainstream than if we were to push to get these games on other leagues. Here’s what I do not get, competitive players always wish for larger prize payouts, and many of us really do want to make a career out of all this. I think with the payouts we are getting right now, it’s not nearly enough to support a family, and perhaps not quite there for one person alone. With team salaries+winnings yeah that’s pretty nice. But back on topic, with these games being included into more leagues, wouldn’t this really help out players greatly that are looking to seriously make a living off of this? Wouldn’t this really help team sponsorship grow, due to their brand being advertised and recognized at much larger events to a much more wider scale of people? I think a lot of us would love to do this for a career, and making these FG’s become apart of bigger leagues would help that cause quite a bit.

    eSports as a term, yeah, sounds a little funky, but competitive gaming sounds a bit lacking to me as well, but perhaps it’s just my mindset of something competitive. When I hear competitive gaming I hear “You’re being competitive while you’re playing” Ok? you’re a competitive gamer, what’s your point? While I sit at home playing Halo on my couch I feel as if I playing competitive as well. I think when we use the term competitive gamer, it really does not separate us much from the gamer’s that sit at home and play online all day at all. For many when they hear the word casual gamer, they think Nintendo Wii and rated E games, RPG’s, or just playing to eat time and have fun. But when the word competitive comes up, it’s usually taken more as a hardcore term, and people think playing CoD online, and kicking ass, and you’re out to get blood. Not necessarily, going to tournaments/leagues, and looking to win and make a career out of it all. That’s why I personally prefer the term eSports, it’s a bit more clear and defining (still funky, and cheesy though) than competitive gaming. When you mention eSports , I feel people will get more of an instant grasp of what you’re talking about if they know you are a gamer. “Electronic sports” Playing video games in a more sport type format, tournaments, teams, leagues, international, etc. So I really don’t understand why this word is so disliked among the community.

    Overall while I do think getting the FGC involved with leagues and such is not only important for it’s growth, but important for eSports community or Competitive gaming community as a whole. A lot of people in the U.S play fighting games, if you ask me, it’s much more entertaining to watch than Halo, or SC2. But at the same time I believe we should start out small, start fresh in 2012, and really take the time to ourselves, our communities etc, and think about what would truly be best for everyone as a whole, and if we are going to expand alone, how we are going to do it other than just holding tournaments year after year expecting numbers to grow like crazy (although they do) But to actually put some thought and innovation into what we develop as a community. While it’s unfortunate, money is a HUGE, part of the situation for many people. I know some of the good apples have the right mentality and know that money isn’t everything. But people here in the U.S will do anything for some good cash. Think about it, if SC2 grows like it’s growing now in the U.S, and more leagues begin to develop here, cash prizes begin to grow dramatically (Really guys’, a $1mil for 1st place team at CoD XP. Call of Duty!!!?!?! Call of Duty???!?!?!?!?) Not to mention it was the first CoD XP and they will do it again next year. But as I’m saying, if they grow, surpass the FGC big time here in the U.S, the ones who play for the $ (which is a large amount believe it or not) will move on and we could even loose people, it’s not certain but it’s surely a possible, yeah a large amount of us love SF4, but those who don’t and play other FG’s are begging to leagues to pick the games up, because these players see opportunities that us Capcom gamer’s do not, because we feel we have it all right now as things are. Just something to think about. Flame me, spam me, hate me, yeah this is a bit to long xD

    TL;DR

    Let’s not be left behind, let’s try thing, keep our heads together. And not only make decisions for ourselves as players but the entire community, and that included the competitive gaming community as a whole. Life is made up of risks.

  • Anonymous

    Was this your senior thesis? Zing!

    But seriously, the FGC should never merge with the so-called ‘general gaming community’.
    MLG is so corporate, sanitized and bland. Merging with them would kill the soul of our community.

    The FGC consists of characters; fun people with varied backgrounds, and personalities.
    The General Gaming Community consists of milquetoast, socially akward mouth breathers who communicate via internet memes. Let’s avoid that.

    • Anonymous

      Its not as if just because Starcraft is more professional, fighting games would be too if they were brought into leagues.  But the leagues have to work with the community and preferably put the important community members in charge for it to work.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steven-Tyler-Parry/100003150253490 Steven Tyler Parry

        They’d have to decide “importance” by a grand tournament though. Anyone can enter. Only 16 can win.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steven-Tyler-Parry/100003150253490 Steven Tyler Parry

        They’d have to decide “importance” by a grand tournament though. Anyone can enter. Only 16 can win.

    • http://www.facebook.com/keishenra Kyle D. Johnson

      Heeeey~ Way to be a shining example of stagnation! Good job!

    • http://www.facebook.com/keishenra Kyle D. Johnson

      Heeeey~ Way to be a shining example of stagnation! Good job!

  • Anonymous

    Was this your senior thesis? Zing!

    But seriously, the FGC should never merge with the so-called ‘general gaming community’.
    MLG is so corporate, sanitized and bland. Merging with them would kill the soul of our community.

    The FGC consists of characters; fun people with varied backgrounds, and personalities.
    The General Gaming Community consists of milquetoast, socially akward mouth breathers who communicate via internet memes. Let’s avoid that.

  • Anonymous

    Was this your senior thesis? Zing!

    But seriously, the FGC should never merge with the so-called ‘general gaming community’.
    MLG is so corporate, sanitized and bland. Merging with them would kill the soul of our community.

    The FGC consists of characters; fun people with varied backgrounds, and personalities.
    The General Gaming Community consists of milquetoast, socially akward mouth breathers who communicate via internet memes. Let’s avoid that.

  • Anonymous

    Was this your senior thesis? Zing!

    But seriously, the FGC should never merge with the so-called ‘general gaming community’.
    MLG is so corporate, sanitized and bland. Merging with them would kill the soul of our community.

    The FGC consists of characters; fun people with varied backgrounds, and personalities.
    The General Gaming Community consists of milquetoast, socially akward mouth breathers who communicate via internet memes. Let’s avoid that.

  • http://twitter.com/rettust thomas

    good write-up.  as someone who was a part of a lot of competitive cs for the better part of a decade, got into 3s in 2007, didn’t get serious with the fgc until sf4, am masters in sc2 and pretty much glued to streams and tournaments and shit, i feel like i’ve got a pretty good handle on the different communities.

    there’s just so many differences that it’s almost not even worth comparing them — it’s like comparing the playerbase of the nhl to the nba.  at their core they play a competitive sport that takes a ludicrous amount of time and skill to get to the top of, but the personalities and demographics couldn’t be farther apart. obviously, that’s going to create two entirely different cultures built around something that is essentially the same in a broader context, but you don’t really need to debate the merits, failures, whatever the fuck of both.  they’re just different, and that’s okay.

    i don’t think you’re as seperated from esports as much as you think you are.  you’ve still got the sponsorships, the money, the teams, and the tournaments.  you just don’t have it on as big a scale, which is okay.  the greatest thing about the fighting game community is that you’re grassroots.  you aren’t really tied down by corporate bullshit, you can say what you want when you want and how you want.  i don’t tune in to a fighting game stream wondering what politically correct fluffy bullshit i’m going to hear from you guys, which is fucking awesome.  meanwhile, on the sc2 side of things, anyone who says one wrong ‘nigga’, ‘rape’, or anything that might be deemed even remotely controversial gets a fucking giant debate started on whether or not it’s harmful for esports, which is insane.

    but the professionalism is the reason why EG dolls out rumored/supposed 6 figure contracts to their sc2 player(s), and why prizepools are well into the 250k+ regions regularly.  does the fgc want that kind of money?  fuck yeah they do, but it won’t happen with the current fgc model.  spooky does fucking WORK and is half the reason the online fgc community is as big as it is and i have all the respect in the world for him, but no huge corporate sponsor is going to listen to him on his stream and go “That’s our guy.  Hand out the bucks.”  the fgc needs a few more ultradavids for something like that to happen.

    but is it necessary?  would you guys even want to sacrifice the integrity in your community for the top-end players to be able to live more than comfortably off of the games they love?  i hope not, because the contrasts between the communities is what keeps me interested beyond the games.  but i’m not the one that would be profiting off of something like that either.  there’s things both sides of the fence could learn from, but at the end of the day i’m cool with the more subdued sc2 crowd as much as i am with the fgc hypetrain.

    it’s really shitty that capcom is as seemingly ambivalent towards this community as they are.  they blatantly put the dollar signs in front of everything else, which blizzard obviously didn’t with sc2… but blizzard could afford that luxury more than capcom, i’m sure.

    • http://twitter.com/3BlackGeeks 3BG

      Well said. I think its better if the community managed to garner the big dollars internally than say letting someone else pick up the tab. Capcom is getting better at getting involved but its in baby steps. I honestly rather the community take its time rather than just doing it because the shit is hot right now.

    • http://twitter.com/3BlackGeeks 3BG

      Well said. I think its better if the community managed to garner the big dollars internally than say letting someone else pick up the tab. Capcom is getting better at getting involved but its in baby steps. I honestly rather the community take its time rather than just doing it because the shit is hot right now.

    • http://twitter.com/3BlackGeeks 3BG

      Well said. I think its better if the community managed to garner the big dollars internally than say letting someone else pick up the tab. Capcom is getting better at getting involved but its in baby steps. I honestly rather the community take its time rather than just doing it because the shit is hot right now.

    • http://twitter.com/3BlackGeeks 3BG

      Well said. I think its better if the community managed to garner the big dollars internally than say letting someone else pick up the tab. Capcom is getting better at getting involved but its in baby steps. I honestly rather the community take its time rather than just doing it because the shit is hot right now.

    • http://twitter.com/3BlackGeeks 3BG

      Well said. I think its better if the community managed to garner the big dollars internally than say letting someone else pick up the tab. Capcom is getting better at getting involved but its in baby steps. I honestly rather the community take its time rather than just doing it because the shit is hot right now.

    • http://twitter.com/3BlackGeeks 3BG

      Well said. I think its better if the community managed to garner the big dollars internally than say letting someone else pick up the tab. Capcom is getting better at getting involved but its in baby steps. I honestly rather the community take its time rather than just doing it because the shit is hot right now.

    • http://twitter.com/3BlackGeeks 3BG

      Well said. I think its better if the community managed to garner the big dollars internally than say letting someone else pick up the tab. Capcom is getting better at getting involved but its in baby steps. I honestly rather the community take its time rather than just doing it because the shit is hot right now.

      • Anonymous

        You also have to take into account that unlike Capcom, Blizzard is a giant of the industry, one of the biggest and richest companies out there with A LOT of money to throw around. They own the largest online gaming network in the world. They don’t need to release 4-5 games a year to make a profit. They can (literally) spend 10 years developing a single game, polishing it to hell and back, and like Ultradavid said, they can release shit for free, throw money at tournaments, etc., and still make a crapton of money.

        Whereas, Capcom is a relatively small company with obviously a much more limited budget. A bad taken risk would hurt them a lot more than it would do to a company like Blizzard.

        We all know Capcom support for the competitive scene hasn’t been the best, but IMO it would be unrealistic to ask them for the same kind of support that Blizzard gives to their games in terms of money and resources.

      • Anonymous

        You also have to take into account that unlike Capcom, Blizzard is a giant of the industry, one of the biggest and richest companies out there with A LOT of money to throw around. They own the largest online gaming network in the world. They don’t need to release 4-5 games a year to make a profit. They can (literally) spend 10 years developing a single game, polishing it to hell and back, and like Ultradavid said, they can release shit for free, throw money at tournaments, etc., and still make a crapton of money.

        Whereas, Capcom is a relatively small company with obviously a much more limited budget. A bad taken risk would hurt them a lot more than it would do to a company like Blizzard.

        We all know Capcom support for the competitive scene hasn’t been the best, but IMO it would be unrealistic to ask them for the same kind of support that Blizzard gives to their games in terms of money and resources.

        • JlHADJOE

          You forget that just over a decade ago Blizzard was even smaller than Capcom. They had what? Rock n Roll Racing and The Lost Vikings to their name.

          There was no Warcraft, no Starcraft, no Diablo. Blizzard status as an industry giant now comes largely from their corporate execution in the years before. They read emerging markets and revenue models correctly and capitalized on that.

          If Capcom had done the same, back when they basically owned the world with SFII I could easily imagine a role reversal between Blizzard and Capcom.

          • Anonymous

            What Capcom did or could’ve done 17 years ago is completely irrelevant to my argument, because right now we are in 2011 not in 1994. Right *now* Capcom doesn’t even come close to how big Blizzard is, so again, asking for the same or even a similar kind of support from Capcom’s part right *now* is totally unrealistic, that simply is not going to happen.

          • Anonymous

            What Capcom did or could’ve done 17 years ago is completely irrelevant to my argument, because right now we are in 2011 not in 1994. Right *now* Capcom doesn’t even come close to how big Blizzard is, so again, asking for the same or even a similar kind of support from Capcom’s part right *now* is totally unrealistic, that simply is not going to happen.

          • Anonymous

            What Capcom did or could’ve done 17 years ago is completely irrelevant to my argument, because right now we are in 2011 not in 1994. Right *now* Capcom doesn’t even come close to how big Blizzard is, so again, asking for the same or even a similar kind of support from Capcom’s part right *now* is totally unrealistic, that simply is not going to happen.

          • Anonymous

            What Capcom did or could’ve done 17 years ago is completely irrelevant to my argument, because right now we are in 2011 not in 1994. Right *now* Capcom doesn’t even come close to how big Blizzard is, so again, asking for the same or even a similar kind of support from Capcom’s part right *now* is totally unrealistic, that simply is not going to happen.

          • Anonymous

            What Capcom did or could’ve done 17 years ago is completely irrelevant to my argument, because right now we are in 2011 not in 1994. Right *now* Capcom doesn’t even come close to how big Blizzard is, so again, asking for the same or even a similar kind of support from Capcom’s part right *now* is totally unrealistic, that simply is not going to happen.

        • JlHADJOE

          You forget that just over a decade ago Blizzard was even smaller than Capcom. They had what? Rock n Roll Racing and The Lost Vikings to their name.

          There was no Warcraft, no Starcraft, no Diablo. Blizzard status as an industry giant now comes largely from their corporate execution in the years before. They read emerging markets and revenue models correctly and capitalized on that.

          If Capcom had done the same, back when they basically owned the world with SFII I could easily imagine a role reversal between Blizzard and Capcom.

        • JlHADJOE

          You forget that just over a decade ago Blizzard was even smaller than Capcom. They had what? Rock n Roll Racing and The Lost Vikings to their name.

          There was no Warcraft, no Starcraft, no Diablo. Blizzard status as an industry giant now comes largely from their corporate execution in the years before. They read emerging markets and revenue models correctly and capitalized on that.

          If Capcom had done the same, back when they basically owned the world with SFII I could easily imagine a role reversal between Blizzard and Capcom.

        • JlHADJOE

          You forget that just over a decade ago Blizzard was even smaller than Capcom. They had what? Rock n Roll Racing and The Lost Vikings to their name.

          There was no Warcraft, no Starcraft, no Diablo. Blizzard status as an industry giant now comes largely from their corporate execution in the years before. They read emerging markets and revenue models correctly and capitalized on that.

          If Capcom had done the same, back when they basically owned the world with SFII I could easily imagine a role reversal between Blizzard and Capcom.

  • http://twitter.com/rettust thomas

    good write-up.  as someone who was a part of a lot of competitive cs for the better part of a decade, got into 3s in 2007, didn’t get serious with the fgc until sf4, am masters in sc2 and pretty much glued to streams and tournaments and shit, i feel like i’ve got a pretty good handle on the different communities.

    there’s just so many differences that it’s almost not even worth comparing them — it’s like comparing the playerbase of the nhl to the nba.  at their core they play a competitive sport that takes a ludicrous amount of time and skill to get to the top of, but the personalities and demographics couldn’t be farther apart. obviously, that’s going to create two entirely different cultures built around something that is essentially the same in a broader context, but you don’t really need to debate the merits, failures, whatever the fuck of both.  they’re just different, and that’s okay.

    i don’t think you’re as seperated from esports as much as you think you are.  you’ve still got the sponsorships, the money, the teams, and the tournaments.  you just don’t have it on as big a scale, which is okay.  the greatest thing about the fighting game community is that you’re grassroots.  you aren’t really tied down by corporate bullshit, you can say what you want when you want and how you want.  i don’t tune in to a fighting game stream wondering what politically correct fluffy bullshit i’m going to hear from you guys, which is fucking awesome.  meanwhile, on the sc2 side of things, anyone who says one wrong ‘nigga’, ‘rape’, or anything that might be deemed even remotely controversial gets a fucking giant debate started on whether or not it’s harmful for esports, which is insane.

    but the professionalism is the reason why EG dolls out rumored/supposed 6 figure contracts to their sc2 player(s), and why prizepools are well into the 250k+ regions regularly.  does the fgc want that kind of money?  fuck yeah they do, but it won’t happen with the current fgc model.  spooky does fucking WORK and is half the reason the online fgc community is as big as it is and i have all the respect in the world for him, but no huge corporate sponsor is going to listen to him on his stream and go “That’s our guy.  Hand out the bucks.”  the fgc needs a few more ultradavids for something like that to happen.

    but is it necessary?  would you guys even want to sacrifice the integrity in your community for the top-end players to be able to live more than comfortably off of the games they love?  i hope not, because the contrasts between the communities is what keeps me interested beyond the games.  but i’m not the one that would be profiting off of something like that either.  there’s things both sides of the fence could learn from, but at the end of the day i’m cool with the more subdued sc2 crowd as much as i am with the fgc hypetrain.

    it’s really shitty that capcom is as seemingly ambivalent towards this community as they are.  they blatantly put the dollar signs in front of everything else, which blizzard obviously didn’t with sc2… but blizzard could afford that luxury more than capcom, i’m sure.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WMM4P5EAJLNHKWWA6HK2DUODTM THL

    One of the reasons why fighting games will NEVER be as popular as other eSports games is because it’s one-on-one.  In team games like CounterStrike, League of Legends, and even Starcraft (lots of mediocre and bad players prefer team games), you can always tell yourself it’s your teammate’s fault that you lost.  This drastically reduces the salt level.  In fighting games, there’s nobody to blame but yourself.  And a newcomer to the fighting game genre will lose a lot before he starts winning.  Compare this experience to a Starcraft new player  who can join team games and possibly win some matches if he gets a strong teammate.

    FGs will never be as popular as eSport games until somebody figures out how to implement teamplay. 

    • Anonymous

      Stacrafts competitive standard is 1v1 anything other than that is usually viewed as a huge joke.

      FG’s do not team play to be as popular. We already have a huge community, imagine the impact we’d make if FG’s were to be added into leagues. I would think we’d be at least the 2nd or 3rd most popular community at most leagues. SC2 is obviously years ahead of us, FPS is really having a hard time right now, and MOBA’s aright just getting back on their feet, and so are we. People can’t see it being successful right now is because nothing is happening. And when we say leagues, don’t just think MLG because believe it or not, a lot of players  believe MLG is a joke. I don’t, but I’ve been told so many times that it’s a terrible league. 

      I do really think FG’s can make it, people just don’t see the potential. Every year things just get better for us, and I’m telling you once SC5, TTT2, etc release, players of these games are going to be wanting them to be picked up on these leagues because they deserve more attention. But I guess it helps the community as a whole anyway.

      • http://twitter.com/Spaceneil8 Neil Mehta

        Don’t just base your whole opinion of a league on hearsay, and if you don’t feel that way, why even bring it up? Once you’ve competed at an actual MLG event you can easily see that it definitely isn’t a joke, and it has just as much hype and atmosphere of any other event if not more.

      • http://twitter.com/Spaceneil8 Neil Mehta

        Don’t just base your whole opinion of a league on hearsay, and if you don’t feel that way, why even bring it up? Once you’ve competed at an actual MLG event you can easily see that it definitely isn’t a joke, and it has just as much hype and atmosphere of any other event if not more.

    • Anonymous

      Just an opinion, but I feel like your (sadly accurate) depiction of random newbs and casuals and etc not being able to handle the salt of a 1v1 both hits the nail on the head and yet at the same time weeds out a lot of the scrubs. It only really makes it less acceptable to those too immature to handle losing and the personal responsibility it takes to acknowledge it was YOUR FAULT you lost.

      And do I, personally, care too much about losing immature people like that? Not at all. If you can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. There’s plenty of us who can and do, everyone in the FGC knows the bitter salty taste of defeat.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WMM4P5EAJLNHKWWA6HK2DUODTM THL

    One of the reasons why fighting games will NEVER be as popular as other eSports games is because it’s one-on-one.  In team games like CounterStrike, League of Legends, and even Starcraft (lots of mediocre and bad players prefer team games), you can always tell yourself it’s your teammate’s fault that you lost.  This drastically reduces the salt level.  In fighting games, there’s nobody to blame but yourself.  And a newcomer to the fighting game genre will lose a lot before he starts winning.  Compare this experience to a Starcraft new player  who can join team games and possibly win some matches if he gets a strong teammate.

    FGs will never be as popular as eSport games until somebody figures out how to implement teamplay. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WMM4P5EAJLNHKWWA6HK2DUODTM THL

    One of the reasons why fighting games will NEVER be as popular as other eSports games is because it’s one-on-one.  In team games like CounterStrike, League of Legends, and even Starcraft (lots of mediocre and bad players prefer team games), you can always tell yourself it’s your teammate’s fault that you lost.  This drastically reduces the salt level.  In fighting games, there’s nobody to blame but yourself.  And a newcomer to the fighting game genre will lose a lot before he starts winning.  Compare this experience to a Starcraft new player  who can join team games and possibly win some matches if he gets a strong teammate.

    FGs will never be as popular as eSport games until somebody figures out how to implement teamplay. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WMM4P5EAJLNHKWWA6HK2DUODTM THL

    One of the reasons why fighting games will NEVER be as popular as other eSports games is because it’s one-on-one.  In team games like CounterStrike, League of Legends, and even Starcraft (lots of mediocre and bad players prefer team games), you can always tell yourself it’s your teammate’s fault that you lost.  This drastically reduces the salt level.  In fighting games, there’s nobody to blame but yourself.  And a newcomer to the fighting game genre will lose a lot before he starts winning.  Compare this experience to a Starcraft new player  who can join team games and possibly win some matches if he gets a strong teammate.

    FGs will never be as popular as eSport games until somebody figures out how to implement teamplay. 

  • Anonymous

    The thing about all these articles that keeps getting to me, and something I’ve been holding back on, is that the sport of Starcraft is not the same as the remainder eSports AT ALL right now.

    Not just the community but the sport itself was born in Korea not because of Blizzard’s efforts but in spite of them. The ICCUP, GSL, GOMTV and all of what is really the recognized Starcraft community (which has been at odds with Blizzard for most of its life, some of which continues even now) was built from scratch by enterprising Koreans on custom LANs and on their own network.

    Even to this day American tournament circuits and even the official server clusters outside of Korea are viewed as amateurish at best in both skill and presence. The last Blizzcon tournament came down to a prize split. Not an “OMG controversy!” prize split agreement, a “who really cares that they did this” prize split because honestly a real SC fan was not expecting much out of the affair.

    If you really analyze the true SC scene you’ll see it’s a lot different from MSL offerings. People still play Brood War (SC1+expansion) competitively and many continue to recognize it as the true “Starcraft”.

    The crux is Starcraft isn’t a bunch of guys utilizing “RTS games” or “FPS games” as a professional sport. The singular, decade+ old game is in and of itself, despite emerging graphics technology, a sport like Football or Baseball. It’s unlikely to be gone even if Blizzard releases Starcraft 6 20 years from now.

    That’s where it really grew up. 10 years of playing a single game. These people weren’t hanging on the next sequel or balance patch, they were playing this one game endlessly.

    “eSports” for lack of any other term is a completely different animal. It’s more like the Digital Olympics with its varying and multitudinous events.

    That isn’t to say Fighting Games can’t or don’t approximate or approach that. People still play SF2, hyper, 3rd strike, etc. You just have to consider the full weight of SC in and of itself and what it means as a “professional sport”.

  • Anonymous

    The thing about all these articles that keeps getting to me, and something I’ve been holding back on, is that the sport of Starcraft is not the same as the remainder eSports AT ALL right now.

    Not just the community but the sport itself was born in Korea not because of Blizzard’s efforts but in spite of them. The ICCUP, GSL, GOMTV and all of what is really the recognized Starcraft community (which has been at odds with Blizzard for most of its life, some of which continues even now) was built from scratch by enterprising Koreans on custom LANs and on their own network.

    Even to this day American tournament circuits and even the official server clusters outside of Korea are viewed as amateurish at best in both skill and presence. The last Blizzcon tournament came down to a prize split. Not an “OMG controversy!” prize split agreement, a “who really cares that they did this” prize split because honestly a real SC fan was not expecting much out of the affair.

    If you really analyze the true SC scene you’ll see it’s a lot different from MSL offerings. People still play Brood War (SC1+expansion) competitively and many continue to recognize it as the true “Starcraft”.

    The crux is Starcraft isn’t a bunch of guys utilizing “RTS games” or “FPS games” as a professional sport. The singular, decade+ old game is in and of itself, despite emerging graphics technology, a sport like Football or Baseball. It’s unlikely to be gone even if Blizzard releases Starcraft 6 20 years from now.

    That’s where it really grew up. 10 years of playing a single game. These people weren’t hanging on the next sequel or balance patch, they were playing this one game endlessly.

    “eSports” for lack of any other term is a completely different animal. It’s more like the Digital Olympics with its varying and multitudinous events.

    That isn’t to say Fighting Games can’t or don’t approximate or approach that. People still play SF2, hyper, 3rd strike, etc. You just have to consider the full weight of SC in and of itself and what it means as a “professional sport”.

    • Anonymous

      It is important to note that thanks to the built in map editor the Starcraft community could continue to balance the game itself long after Blizzard stopped patching it. Though the Korean pro scene never used maps with altered unit properties or costs the maps have evolved extensively over the course of 10 years, keeping pace with strategic trends and shaping the play to be exciting for the audience. It is highly unlikely that there would be a thriving pro scene in Korea today if they had been stuck with the maps from 1999.

    • Anonymous

      Damn the FGC sometimes, because when you say Ten Years, the first thing that pops into my head is Marvel 2.

    • Anonymous

      Damn the FGC sometimes, because when you say Ten Years, the first thing that pops into my head is Marvel 2.

  • Anonymous

    The thing about all these articles that keeps getting to me, and something I’ve been holding back on, is that the sport of Starcraft is not the same as the remainder eSports AT ALL right now.

    Not just the community but the sport itself was born in Korea not because of Blizzard’s efforts but in spite of them. The ICCUP, GSL, GOMTV and all of what is really the recognized Starcraft community (which has been at odds with Blizzard for most of its life, some of which continues even now) was built from scratch by enterprising Koreans on custom LANs and on their own network.

    Even to this day American tournament circuits and even the official server clusters outside of Korea are viewed as amateurish at best in both skill and presence. The last Blizzcon tournament came down to a prize split. Not an “OMG controversy!” prize split agreement, a “who really cares that they did this” prize split because honestly a real SC fan was not expecting much out of the affair.

    If you really analyze the true SC scene you’ll see it’s a lot different from MSL offerings. People still play Brood War (SC1+expansion) competitively and many continue to recognize it as the true “Starcraft”.

    The crux is Starcraft isn’t a bunch of guys utilizing “RTS games” or “FPS games” as a professional sport. The singular, decade+ old game is in and of itself, despite emerging graphics technology, a sport like Football or Baseball. It’s unlikely to be gone even if Blizzard releases Starcraft 6 20 years from now.

    That’s where it really grew up. 10 years of playing a single game. These people weren’t hanging on the next sequel or balance patch, they were playing this one game endlessly.

    “eSports” for lack of any other term is a completely different animal. It’s more like the Digital Olympics with its varying and multitudinous events.

    That isn’t to say Fighting Games can’t or don’t approximate or approach that. People still play SF2, hyper, 3rd strike, etc. You just have to consider the full weight of SC in and of itself and what it means as a “professional sport”.

  • Anonymous

    The thing about all these articles that keeps getting to me, and something I’ve been holding back on, is that the sport of Starcraft is not the same as the remainder eSports AT ALL right now.

    Not just the community but the sport itself was born in Korea not because of Blizzard’s efforts but in spite of them. The ICCUP, GSL, GOMTV and all of what is really the recognized Starcraft community (which has been at odds with Blizzard for most of its life, some of which continues even now) was built from scratch by enterprising Koreans on custom LANs and on their own network.

    Even to this day American tournament circuits and even the official server clusters outside of Korea are viewed as amateurish at best in both skill and presence. The last Blizzcon tournament came down to a prize split. Not an “OMG controversy!” prize split agreement, a “who really cares that they did this” prize split because honestly a real SC fan was not expecting much out of the affair.

    If you really analyze the true SC scene you’ll see it’s a lot different from MSL offerings. People still play Brood War (SC1+expansion) competitively and many continue to recognize it as the true “Starcraft”.

    The crux is Starcraft isn’t a bunch of guys utilizing “RTS games” or “FPS games” as a professional sport. The singular, decade+ old game is in and of itself, despite emerging graphics technology, a sport like Football or Baseball. It’s unlikely to be gone even if Blizzard releases Starcraft 6 20 years from now.

    That’s where it really grew up. 10 years of playing a single game. These people weren’t hanging on the next sequel or balance patch, they were playing this one game endlessly.

    “eSports” for lack of any other term is a completely different animal. It’s more like the Digital Olympics with its varying and multitudinous events.

    That isn’t to say Fighting Games can’t or don’t approximate or approach that. People still play SF2, hyper, 3rd strike, etc. You just have to consider the full weight of SC in and of itself and what it means as a “professional sport”.

  • Anonymous

    The thing about all these articles that keeps getting to me, and something I’ve been holding back on, is that the sport of Starcraft is not the same as the remainder eSports AT ALL right now.

    Not just the community but the sport itself was born in Korea not because of Blizzard’s efforts but in spite of them. The ICCUP, GSL, GOMTV and all of what is really the recognized Starcraft community (which has been at odds with Blizzard for most of its life, some of which continues even now) was built from scratch by enterprising Koreans on custom LANs and on their own network.

    Even to this day American tournament circuits and even the official server clusters outside of Korea are viewed as amateurish at best in both skill and presence. The last Blizzcon tournament came down to a prize split. Not an “OMG controversy!” prize split agreement, a “who really cares that they did this” prize split because honestly a real SC fan was not expecting much out of the affair.

    If you really analyze the true SC scene you’ll see it’s a lot different from MSL offerings. People still play Brood War (SC1+expansion) competitively and many continue to recognize it as the true “Starcraft”.

    The crux is Starcraft isn’t a bunch of guys utilizing “RTS games” or “FPS games” as a professional sport. The singular, decade+ old game is in and of itself, despite emerging graphics technology, a sport like Football or Baseball. It’s unlikely to be gone even if Blizzard releases Starcraft 6 20 years from now.

    That’s where it really grew up. 10 years of playing a single game. These people weren’t hanging on the next sequel or balance patch, they were playing this one game endlessly.

    “eSports” for lack of any other term is a completely different animal. It’s more like the Digital Olympics with its varying and multitudinous events.

    That isn’t to say Fighting Games can’t or don’t approximate or approach that. People still play SF2, hyper, 3rd strike, etc. You just have to consider the full weight of SC in and of itself and what it means as a “professional sport”.

  • Anonymous

    The thing about all these articles that keeps getting to me, and something I’ve been holding back on, is that the sport of Starcraft is not the same as the remainder eSports AT ALL right now.

    Not just the community but the sport itself was born in Korea not because of Blizzard’s efforts but in spite of them. The ICCUP, GSL, GOMTV and all of what is really the recognized Starcraft community (which has been at odds with Blizzard for most of its life, some of which continues even now) was built from scratch by enterprising Koreans on custom LANs and on their own network.

    Even to this day American tournament circuits and even the official server clusters outside of Korea are viewed as amateurish at best in both skill and presence. The last Blizzcon tournament came down to a prize split. Not an “OMG controversy!” prize split agreement, a “who really cares that they did this” prize split because honestly a real SC fan was not expecting much out of the affair.

    If you really analyze the true SC scene you’ll see it’s a lot different from MSL offerings. People still play Brood War (SC1+expansion) competitively and many continue to recognize it as the true “Starcraft”.

    The crux is Starcraft isn’t a bunch of guys utilizing “RTS games” or “FPS games” as a professional sport. The singular, decade+ old game is in and of itself, despite emerging graphics technology, a sport like Football or Baseball. It’s unlikely to be gone even if Blizzard releases Starcraft 6 20 years from now.

    That’s where it really grew up. 10 years of playing a single game. These people weren’t hanging on the next sequel or balance patch, they were playing this one game endlessly.

    “eSports” for lack of any other term is a completely different animal. It’s more like the Digital Olympics with its varying and multitudinous events.

    That isn’t to say Fighting Games can’t or don’t approximate or approach that. People still play SF2, hyper, 3rd strike, etc. You just have to consider the full weight of SC in and of itself and what it means as a “professional sport”.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=606855271 James Forrester Bardolph

    Longest article I ever read, I think it will provide insight and clarity to many. Well done.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=606855271 James Forrester Bardolph

    Longest article I ever read, I think it will provide insight and clarity to many. Well done.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=606855271 James Forrester Bardolph

    Longest article I ever read, I think it will provide insight and clarity to many. Well done.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jon-Slayton/563921933 Jon Slayton

    Damn, you made us sound like a bunch of grunting neanderthals vs the rich, pretty, intelligent and well behaved star craft community. I feel like focusing on the arcade scene in this might have been a little wrong since honestly, most of the arcade scenes are dead throughout the country except for those lucky enough to still have one. A lot of the FGC is made up of people that came in during the SF4 era and those people have never experienced the excitement and the environment of the arcade scene. I suppose gatherings and tournaments could be considered similar to arcades but for most of the FGC, I feel like we aren’t so different from the eSports guys.

    I say give it a chance, what do we have to lose? As long as MLG plays by our rules (game formats and allowing DAT HYPE), I really don’t see people’s reservations. We have momentum on our side now. There’s push for us to be in the esports community. Who knows how many more BIG fighting games will pop up in the future. SFxT could fail horribly. SC5 could be a flop. There might not be a lot of huge stuff on the horizon so I think it’d a good idea to get some hype and some more pull to get players in while we’re still going strong. The arcade days are dead and gone. Let them go. We’re moving into a new era.

    • Anonymous

      This.

    • Anonymous

      This.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CGGBTSDCNDNVF36EMANXOENY7A Christopher Price

      “As long as MLG plays by our rules, I really don’t see people’s reservations.”

      Those pretty much are the reservations. The other potential issue is fracturing the community into “pros” and “everybody else,” which is bad for both.

      • http://twitter.com/broccoman Jeff

        Perfect example: if the community was divided into pros vs joes, you never would have gotten a hug from Kayo.  How would we determine new pros anyways, online tournies?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CGGBTSDCNDNVF36EMANXOENY7A Christopher Price

      “As long as MLG plays by our rules, I really don’t see people’s reservations.”

      Those pretty much are the reservations. The other potential issue is fracturing the community into “pros” and “everybody else,” which is bad for both.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CGGBTSDCNDNVF36EMANXOENY7A Christopher Price

      “As long as MLG plays by our rules, I really don’t see people’s reservations.”

      Those pretty much are the reservations. The other potential issue is fracturing the community into “pros” and “everybody else,” which is bad for both.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CGGBTSDCNDNVF36EMANXOENY7A Christopher Price

      “As long as MLG plays by our rules, I really don’t see people’s reservations.”

      Those pretty much are the reservations. The other potential issue is fracturing the community into “pros” and “everybody else,” which is bad for both.

    • http://www.facebook.com/b3nz0r Ben Gustafson

      Can’t let the arcades go. Too much fun going to UFO ;)

    • http://www.facebook.com/b3nz0r Ben Gustafson

      Can’t let the arcades go. Too much fun going to UFO ;)

    • http://www.facebook.com/b3nz0r Ben Gustafson

      Can’t let the arcades go. Too much fun going to UFO ;)

  • Jeremey Arnold

    As a professional economist who recently completed work on the Economics of E-Sports, UltraDavid has hit alot of the Sociological and Economic notes right on the head in a way that I think will provide a great deal of clarity for members of both communities.  Highlighting the importance of economic selection is key. 

    As a mid 20′s white nerdy economist who came to the FGC and has a sociological selection of a SC2 player, I think he hits many of the issues right on the head.  However, it is still curious that given the economic planning difficulties associated with greater diversity that the FGC has to go through (for good and bad), that no one entity has stepped up to try to organize the chaos in a way as to emulate but not completely adopt the E-Sports model (flawed as it is as data shows).  

    UltraDavid, I would love to sit down with you for 2 hours and just discuss the economic intricacies of this unique entertainment medium and discuss what some of the data says is going on in more detail.  Great read.

  • Jeremey Arnold

    As a professional economist who recently completed work on the Economics of E-Sports, UltraDavid has hit alot of the Sociological and Economic notes right on the head in a way that I think will provide a great deal of clarity for members of both communities.  Highlighting the importance of economic selection is key. 

    As a mid 20′s white nerdy economist who came to the FGC and has a sociological selection of a SC2 player, I think he hits many of the issues right on the head.  However, it is still curious that given the economic planning difficulties associated with greater diversity that the FGC has to go through (for good and bad), that no one entity has stepped up to try to organize the chaos in a way as to emulate but not completely adopt the E-Sports model (flawed as it is as data shows).  

    UltraDavid, I would love to sit down with you for 2 hours and just discuss the economic intricacies of this unique entertainment medium and discuss what some of the data says is going on in more detail.  Great read.

  • Jeremey Arnold

    As a professional economist who recently completed work on the Economics of E-Sports, UltraDavid has hit alot of the Sociological and Economic notes right on the head in a way that I think will provide a great deal of clarity for members of both communities.  Highlighting the importance of economic selection is key. 

    As a mid 20′s white nerdy economist who came to the FGC and has a sociological selection of a SC2 player, I think he hits many of the issues right on the head.  However, it is still curious that given the economic planning difficulties associated with greater diversity that the FGC has to go through (for good and bad), that no one entity has stepped up to try to organize the chaos in a way as to emulate but not completely adopt the E-Sports model (flawed as it is as data shows).  

    UltraDavid, I would love to sit down with you for 2 hours and just discuss the economic intricacies of this unique entertainment medium and discuss what some of the data says is going on in more detail.  Great read.

  • Jeremey Arnold

    As a professional economist who recently completed work on the Economics of E-Sports, UltraDavid has hit alot of the Sociological and Economic notes right on the head in a way that I think will provide a great deal of clarity for members of both communities.  Highlighting the importance of economic selection is key. 

    As a mid 20′s white nerdy economist who came to the FGC and has a sociological selection of a SC2 player, I think he hits many of the issues right on the head.  However, it is still curious that given the economic planning difficulties associated with greater diversity that the FGC has to go through (for good and bad), that no one entity has stepped up to try to organize the chaos in a way as to emulate but not completely adopt the E-Sports model (flawed as it is as data shows).  

    UltraDavid, I would love to sit down with you for 2 hours and just discuss the economic intricacies of this unique entertainment medium and discuss what some of the data says is going on in more detail.  Great read.

  • Jeremey Arnold

    As a professional economist who recently completed work on the Economics of E-Sports, UltraDavid has hit alot of the Sociological and Economic notes right on the head in a way that I think will provide a great deal of clarity for members of both communities.  Highlighting the importance of economic selection is key. 

    As a mid 20′s white nerdy economist who came to the FGC and has a sociological selection of a SC2 player, I think he hits many of the issues right on the head.  However, it is still curious that given the economic planning difficulties associated with greater diversity that the FGC has to go through (for good and bad), that no one entity has stepped up to try to organize the chaos in a way as to emulate but not completely adopt the E-Sports model (flawed as it is as data shows).  

    UltraDavid, I would love to sit down with you for 2 hours and just discuss the economic intricacies of this unique entertainment medium and discuss what some of the data says is going on in more detail.  Great read.

  • Jeremey Arnold

    As a professional economist who recently completed work on the Economics of E-Sports, UltraDavid has hit alot of the Sociological and Economic notes right on the head in a way that I think will provide a great deal of clarity for members of both communities.  Highlighting the importance of economic selection is key. 

    As a mid 20′s white nerdy economist who came to the FGC and has a sociological selection of a SC2 player, I think he hits many of the issues right on the head.  However, it is still curious that given the economic planning difficulties associated with greater diversity that the FGC has to go through (for good and bad), that no one entity has stepped up to try to organize the chaos in a way as to emulate but not completely adopt the E-Sports model (flawed as it is as data shows).  

    UltraDavid, I would love to sit down with you for 2 hours and just discuss the economic intricacies of this unique entertainment medium and discuss what some of the data says is going on in more detail.  Great read.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=510367780 Mark Hanley

    Fantastic article, you highlight some great points between the two communities.

    I think the most disappoint part of fighting games are the developers. I’m pretty new to fighting games in general and I feel little to no connection with the developers. I mean they don’t even speak English, I’m not saying this as a jab at race or anything, it’s more that there’s a huge barrier of communication. They post cryptic messages about game changes, there’s almost no community input into any Capcom game. We have a patch for UMVC3 coming soon but there’s no “PTR” or open testing, there’s no asking players how they think these changes might affect the game. Obviously I’m a little spoiled with mostly playing games that can be easily patched and that have regular updates and I’m not crying for buffs or nerfs, it’s just that all this seem so haphazard. I couldn’t imagine SC2 or LoL or WoW releasing a game changing patch without communication with the community. I feel until the fighting game community has a developer like Blizzard, who has teams dedicated to community feed back and organization, you will struggle to see the same growth.  

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PRAIPVYXS6T4L4ZMJKITPMV7L4 Akumous

    Although my initial experiences with SF started during the arcade era I never partake in the arcade scene. I learned and grew up playing SF on consoles with my friends and then on the PC through emulators and finally on connected consoles via PSN or Xbox live. UltraDavid’s history stem from the console era but mine and probably majority of the FGC never had the privilege to live such experiences. 

    I do agree with him on respects and understand the uncertainties but yet the eagerness to grow the community, however I think the core incentive is money. I think the FGC can grow on its own by making smart moves and not let MLG derailed their own path to prosperity. 

    The FGC support fighting games and not just one fighting game or a specific developer of game. The FGC is a collection of independent streamers both big and small, and not just a selected few. The FGC has a rich diversified culture that is not constrained by censorship. 
    The FGC shouldn’t lose scope of what it is and what it could be if they stick to their merits.

    The money and the exposure will come but walking before you creep will ruined it. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PRAIPVYXS6T4L4ZMJKITPMV7L4 Akumous

    Although my initial experiences with SF started during the arcade era I never partake in the arcade scene. I learned and grew up playing SF on consoles with my friends and then on the PC through emulators and finally on connected consoles via PSN or Xbox live. UltraDavid’s history stem from the console era but mine and probably majority of the FGC never had the privilege to live such experiences. 

    I do agree with him on respects and understand the uncertainties but yet the eagerness to grow the community, however I think the core incentive is money. I think the FGC can grow on its own by making smart moves and not let MLG derailed their own path to prosperity. 

    The FGC support fighting games and not just one fighting game or a specific developer of game. The FGC is a collection of independent streamers both big and small, and not just a selected few. The FGC has a rich diversified culture that is not constrained by censorship. 
    The FGC shouldn’t lose scope of what it is and what it could be if they stick to their merits.

    The money and the exposure will come but walking before you creep will ruined it. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PRAIPVYXS6T4L4ZMJKITPMV7L4 Akumous

    Although my initial experiences with SF started during the arcade era I never partake in the arcade scene. I learned and grew up playing SF on consoles with my friends and then on the PC through emulators and finally on connected consoles via PSN or Xbox live. UltraDavid’s history stem from the console era but mine and probably majority of the FGC never had the privilege to live such experiences. 

    I do agree with him on respects and understand the uncertainties but yet the eagerness to grow the community, however I think the core incentive is money. I think the FGC can grow on its own by making smart moves and not let MLG derailed their own path to prosperity. 

    The FGC support fighting games and not just one fighting game or a specific developer of game. The FGC is a collection of independent streamers both big and small, and not just a selected few. The FGC has a rich diversified culture that is not constrained by censorship. 
    The FGC shouldn’t lose scope of what it is and what it could be if they stick to their merits.

    The money and the exposure will come but walking before you creep will ruined it. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PRAIPVYXS6T4L4ZMJKITPMV7L4 Akumous

    Although my initial experiences with SF started during the arcade era I never partake in the arcade scene. I learned and grew up playing SF on consoles with my friends and then on the PC through emulators and finally on connected consoles via PSN or Xbox live. UltraDavid’s history stem from the console era but mine and probably majority of the FGC never had the privilege to live such experiences. 

    I do agree with him on respects and understand the uncertainties but yet the eagerness to grow the community, however I think the core incentive is money. I think the FGC can grow on its own by making smart moves and not let MLG derailed their own path to prosperity. 

    The FGC support fighting games and not just one fighting game or a specific developer of game. The FGC is a collection of independent streamers both big and small, and not just a selected few. The FGC has a rich diversified culture that is not constrained by censorship. 
    The FGC shouldn’t lose scope of what it is and what it could be if they stick to their merits.

    The money and the exposure will come but walking before you creep will ruined it. 

  • http://twitter.com/AAWalrus Jesse Zhu

    It’s surprising to find a reasonable article and nothing that jumped out of me as fucking stupid/wrong.

    IMO it coulda had more pictures. haha

    • http://twitter.com/Spaceneil8 Neil Mehta

      Have you seen how MLG ran Tekken? They definitely aren’t new to running fighting games.

      • http://twitter.com/AAWalrus Jesse Zhu

        No, I have no idea about Tekken at MLG. Are you alluding to how terrible it was or was it actually ok?

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-A-Brown-II/100000094929489 Michael A. Brown II

          it was actually ok and pretty hype, just didn’t pull the numbers…

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-A-Brown-II/100000094929489 Michael A. Brown II

          it was actually ok and pretty hype, just didn’t pull the numbers…

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-A-Brown-II/100000094929489 Michael A. Brown II

          it was actually ok and pretty hype, just didn’t pull the numbers…

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-A-Brown-II/100000094929489 Michael A. Brown II

          it was actually ok and pretty hype, just didn’t pull the numbers…

        • http://twitter.com/Spaceneil8 Neil Mehta

          It was run pretty well. Sorry, my wording was a bit bad.

      • http://twitter.com/AAWalrus Jesse Zhu

        No, I have no idea about Tekken at MLG. Are you alluding to how terrible it was or was it actually ok?

      • http://twitter.com/AAWalrus Jesse Zhu

        No, I have no idea about Tekken at MLG. Are you alluding to how terrible it was or was it actually ok?

    • http://twitter.com/Spaceneil8 Neil Mehta

      Have you seen how MLG ran Tekken? They definitely aren’t new to running fighting games.

  • http://twitter.com/AAWalrus Jesse Zhu

    It’s surprising to find a reasonable article and nothing that jumped out of me as fucking stupid/wrong.

    IMO it coulda had more pictures. haha

  • http://twitter.com/AAWalrus Jesse Zhu

    It’s surprising to find a reasonable article and nothing that jumped out of me as fucking stupid/wrong.

    IMO it coulda had more pictures. haha

  • Anonymous

    “You know the only thing we’re opposed to? The word “esports.” Shit is straight clown shoes son, for reals.”

    I loved this line haha.

    Joking aside, I believe how RTSs and FPSs are inherently played online and are PLAYABLE online is a big factor in how these communities have blown up professionally. Fighting games can be played online as well but nowhere near any competitive level with current internet technology. Like you said, dropped frames are a dropped combo which can result in a loss!

    I’m just waiting on that technology that recreates the infrastructure of the internet that allows me to play versus someone on the other side of the world with zero lag in a fighting game (because that is the only real way to play a fighting game.)

    • http://twitter.com/AAWalrus Jesse Zhu

      The sad thing is, I don’t think it’ll ever be possible to have completely acceptable online play. Beyond the whole sometimes lag spikes are unavoidable, the speed of light problem makes it so we’ll never have adequate latency playing across the world. This latency is small enough to be ok for SC2 and such, but I don’t think it’s small enough for fighting games.

      Perhaps one day we’ll zip around the world fast enough that we don’t need internet though, and just zoom on over next to someone and play them in a minute and have zero lag.

      • joseph grant

        There is no ‘speed of light problem’ Light travels around the earth 7.5 times a second.

        • http://twitter.com/poke133 poke

          so what’s your point? that’s precisely the problem

        • http://twitter.com/poke133 poke

          so what’s your point? that’s precisely the problem

        • http://twitter.com/poke133 poke

          so what’s your point? that’s precisely the problem

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=510367780 Mark Hanley

        You say this but people are managing to play SC2 online just fine which in most cases is being played at over 120actions per minute? FGs have terrible netcode, that’s part of the problem. 

        • http://twitter.com/jacarandas Blankanieves

          Do SC2 players have to play on monitors that have almost no lag? Does a frame of lag make or break them in game? I’m asking because I genuinely don’t know, but what I do know is that it can completely change fighting games. It’s not just an issue of netcode; it’s the limits of Internet speeds/connections in many countries. 

        • http://twitter.com/jacarandas Blankanieves

          Do SC2 players have to play on monitors that have almost no lag? Does a frame of lag make or break them in game? I’m asking because I genuinely don’t know, but what I do know is that it can completely change fighting games. It’s not just an issue of netcode; it’s the limits of Internet speeds/connections in many countries. 

          • http://twitter.com/Grooog Grooog

            It’s not only a frame that might win you or lose you the game, it can be a single pixel within a single frame that fucks you over. 
            And yes, pro’s play on the absolute minimum settings to minimize the amount of data needed to be transferred and to reduce their lag. Heck, the BW guys still play on old CRT-monitors because they apparently are faster.
            And let’s not forget CS or Quake (especially quake). I am not a big fps-guy, but holy mother of God, the Quake players are fucking Gods compared to any other player of any other game (Maybe korean bw pros could compare). Their shit is tight man, seeing Rapha use dat railgun, holy fuck…

          • http://twitter.com/Grooog Grooog

            It’s not only a frame that might win you or lose you the game, it can be a single pixel within a single frame that fucks you over. 
            And yes, pro’s play on the absolute minimum settings to minimize the amount of data needed to be transferred and to reduce their lag. Heck, the BW guys still play on old CRT-monitors because they apparently are faster.
            And let’s not forget CS or Quake (especially quake). I am not a big fps-guy, but holy mother of God, the Quake players are fucking Gods compared to any other player of any other game (Maybe korean bw pros could compare). Their shit is tight man, seeing Rapha use dat railgun, holy fuck…

        • http://twitter.com/jacarandas Blankanieves

          Do SC2 players have to play on monitors that have almost no lag? Does a frame of lag make or break them in game? I’m asking because I genuinely don’t know, but what I do know is that it can completely change fighting games. It’s not just an issue of netcode; it’s the limits of Internet speeds/connections in many countries. 

        • http://twitter.com/jacarandas Blankanieves

          Do SC2 players have to play on monitors that have almost no lag? Does a frame of lag make or break them in game? I’m asking because I genuinely don’t know, but what I do know is that it can completely change fighting games. It’s not just an issue of netcode; it’s the limits of Internet speeds/connections in many countries. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=510367780 Mark Hanley

        You say this but people are managing to play SC2 online just fine which in most cases is being played at over 120actions per minute? FGs have terrible netcode, that’s part of the problem. 

  • Anonymous

    “You know the only thing we’re opposed to? The word “esports.” Shit is straight clown shoes son, for reals.”

    I loved this line haha.

    Joking aside, I believe how RTSs and FPSs are inherently played online and are PLAYABLE online is a big factor in how these communities have blown up professionally. Fighting games can be played online as well but nowhere near any competitive level with current internet technology. Like you said, dropped frames are a dropped combo which can result in a loss!

    I’m just waiting on that technology that recreates the infrastructure of the internet that allows me to play versus someone on the other side of the world with zero lag in a fighting game (because that is the only real way to play a fighting game.)

  • Jordan Cook

    BibleDavid.

  • Jordan Cook

    BibleDavid.

  • Jordan Cook

    BibleDavid.

  • Jordan Cook

    BibleDavid.

  • http://twitter.com/vVvRapture Dakota

    Great article, learned a lot of things I hadn’t known; what this thing does is really clarify on this FGC vs SC2 thing as a whole (though, in this case, sub-plot), especially because it has become so loud, but for sometimes unknown reasons.

    I would like to point out some incorrect things, namely because of Smash:

    “The separation is even more stark with the Smash Brothers community. Even though Super Smash Brothers: Melee is a legitimate tournament viable game, the differences between the Smash scene and the rest of the FGC have been too great for Smash to come under our roof. Smash players tend not to have our arcade history, which shows up not just in the way they act but in their tendency to tweak their games’ rules in a way that the rest of the FGC, with its history in virtually option-less arcade games, has trouble identifying with. Although it’s a myth that Smash players are all teenagers, it is true that they tend to be younger. This demographic difference extends into socio-economics and race as well. Evo worked with Smash once, and although the FGC actually enjoyed watching the Smash finals, the scenes were too different to get along well in a long term kind of way. The FGC hasn’t accepted Smash and Smash hasn’t accepted the FGC.”

    I find this so unfortunate, because it honestly would be great to see the Smash community as part of the accepted FGC. I truly feel like a fighting game player, not just a Smash player. And I would honestly say Melee is a legitimate tournament game – it’s 2011 and Melee still has tournaments that get entrants in the several hundreds. Brawl, as it approaches its 4th year, is not the perfect fighting game experience, probably the most opposite. But it’s still a fighting game experience, for what it’s worth.

    “But the real issue from our perspective is that we saw Tekken 6 join MLG and then die, and then we saw Melee join MLG and then die. There are several reasons for that. Again, T6 was already losing steam. There was a match fixing scandal in Smash. But in addition to that, the scene got used to bigger payouts and to the pros doing the work for them. What had previously been full community efforts were hollowed out, with a profit-minded corporate entity taking on a significant role. When that support disappeared, so did the scenes.”

    I think there’s some confusion here.

    Super Smash Bros. Melee left MLG several years before Super Smash Bros. Brawl joined the Pro Circuit for, and only, 2010. The match fixing scandal happened in 2010 in Brawl, not Melee.

    “Look, some in the FGC worry that if we join up with pro gaming tomorrow, we’ll again risk the same kind of scene implosions that happened already to Tekken and Smash. “

    I don’t know about the Tekken community, but I definitely don’t understand how the Smash community has seen an “implosion”? Both the Brawl and Melee scenes are still thriving, which dozens upon dozens of tournaments per week happen across the globe, mainly in the US, Canada, Western Europe, Australia, and Japan. Brawl locals have always pulled good numbers in all levels of tournament play, whether it be local or the biggest national of the year. Melee is over 10 years old and it is still being supported for Apex 2012, what will become the Smash community’s bigges tournament ever, all being ran by community members and community members only, including myself. Brawl’s localest of locals still 30 or so people any given weekend. Sure, we have our small turn-outs, but so does everyone.

    Honestly, I think if the two communities were receptive of each other and made more of an attempt, we’d benefit from it. Or at least get rid of a gap that is, to be honest, unnecessary. The Smash community is trying, especially with the Smash-community-ran Apex 2012 being primarily focused on a “FGC event”, not a “Smash with fighting games” event. We want UmvC3 events to be just as hype is Brawl, SSF4 AE just as hype as Melee, and vice versa. We’re even supporting the Pokemon community with one of the biggest in-person events for the community that they’ve ever seen, bar the Nintendo-sponsored events that happen annually. The Pokemon community is certainly in no way part of the FGC, but many Smashers like to dip into their realm here and there, so we feel a connection because many are from different branches. So we have no problem with supporting them. Likewise, we have our Smashers that play Marvel, others that play Street Fighters, others that play Guilty Gear, etc. So we feel that same kind of connection with the FGC, as well, which is why we have no problem with supporting the FGC. Again, we feel like fighting game players, not just Smashers.

    • http://twitter.com/CptSaltyPete Peter Loney (ピーター)

      Slight nitpick, Brawl is most definitely dead in Australia. 

    • http://twitter.com/CptSaltyPete Peter Loney (ピーター)

      Slight nitpick, Brawl is most definitely dead in Australia. 

    • http://twitter.com/CptSaltyPete Peter Loney (ピーター)

      Slight nitpick, Brawl is most definitely dead in Australia. 

    • http://twitter.com/CptSaltyPete Peter Loney (ピーター)

      Slight nitpick, Brawl is most definitely dead in Australia. 

    • http://twitter.com/CptSaltyPete Peter Loney (ピーター)

      Slight nitpick, Brawl is most definitely dead in Australia. 

  • http://twitter.com/vVvRapture Dakota

    Great article, learned a lot of things I hadn’t known; what this thing does is really clarify on this FGC vs SC2 thing as a whole (though, in this case, sub-plot), especially because it has become so loud, but for sometimes unknown reasons.

    I would like to point out some incorrect things, namely because of Smash:

    “The separation is even more stark with the Smash Brothers community. Even though Super Smash Brothers: Melee is a legitimate tournament viable game, the differences between the Smash scene and the rest of the FGC have been too great for Smash to come under our roof. Smash players tend not to have our arcade history, which shows up not just in the way they act but in their tendency to tweak their games’ rules in a way that the rest of the FGC, with its history in virtually option-less arcade games, has trouble identifying with. Although it’s a myth that Smash players are all teenagers, it is true that they tend to be younger. This demographic difference extends into socio-economics and race as well. Evo worked with Smash once, and although the FGC actually enjoyed watching the Smash finals, the scenes were too different to get along well in a long term kind of way. The FGC hasn’t accepted Smash and Smash hasn’t accepted the FGC.”

    I find this so unfortunate, because it honestly would be great to see the Smash community as part of the accepted FGC. I truly feel like a fighting game player, not just a Smash player. And I would honestly say Melee is a legitimate tournament game – it’s 2011 and Melee still has tournaments that get entrants in the several hundreds. Brawl, as it approaches its 4th year, is not the perfect fighting game experience, probably the most opposite. But it’s still a fighting game experience, for what it’s worth.

    “But the real issue from our perspective is that we saw Tekken 6 join MLG and then die, and then we saw Melee join MLG and then die. There are several reasons for that. Again, T6 was already losing steam. There was a match fixing scandal in Smash. But in addition to that, the scene got used to bigger payouts and to the pros doing the work for them. What had previously been full community efforts were hollowed out, with a profit-minded corporate entity taking on a significant role. When that support disappeared, so did the scenes.”

    I think there’s some confusion here.

    Super Smash Bros. Melee left MLG several years before Super Smash Bros. Brawl joined the Pro Circuit for, and only, 2010. The match fixing scandal happened in 2010 in Brawl, not Melee.

    “Look, some in the FGC worry that if we join up with pro gaming tomorrow, we’ll again risk the same kind of scene implosions that happened already to Tekken and Smash. “

    I don’t know about the Tekken community, but I definitely don’t understand how the Smash community has seen an “implosion”? Both the Brawl and Melee scenes are still thriving, which dozens upon dozens of tournaments per week happen across the globe, mainly in the US, Canada, Western Europe, Australia, and Japan. Brawl locals have always pulled good numbers in all levels of tournament play, whether it be local or the biggest national of the year. Melee is over 10 years old and it is still being supported for Apex 2012, what will become the Smash community’s bigges tournament ever, all being ran by community members and community members only, including myself. Brawl’s localest of locals still 30 or so people any given weekend. Sure, we have our small turn-outs, but so does everyone.

    Honestly, I think if the two communities were receptive of each other and made more of an attempt, we’d benefit from it. Or at least get rid of a gap that is, to be honest, unnecessary. The Smash community is trying, especially with the Smash-community-ran Apex 2012 being primarily focused on a “FGC event”, not a “Smash with fighting games” event. We want UmvC3 events to be just as hype is Brawl, SSF4 AE just as hype as Melee, and vice versa. We’re even supporting the Pokemon community with one of the biggest in-person events for the community that they’ve ever seen, bar the Nintendo-sponsored events that happen annually. The Pokemon community is certainly in no way part of the FGC, but many Smashers like to dip into their realm here and there, so we feel a connection because many are from different branches. So we have no problem with supporting them. Likewise, we have our Smashers that play Marvel, others that play Street Fighters, others that play Guilty Gear, etc. So we feel that same kind of connection with the FGC, as well, which is why we have no problem with supporting the FGC. Again, we feel like fighting game players, not just Smashers.

  • http://twitter.com/vVvRapture Dakota

    Great article, learned a lot of things I hadn’t known; what this thing does is really clarify on this FGC vs SC2 thing as a whole (though, in this case, sub-plot), especially because it has become so loud, but for sometimes unknown reasons.

    I would like to point out some incorrect things, namely because of Smash:

    “The separation is even more stark with the Smash Brothers community. Even though Super Smash Brothers: Melee is a legitimate tournament viable game, the differences between the Smash scene and the rest of the FGC have been too great for Smash to come under our roof. Smash players tend not to have our arcade history, which shows up not just in the way they act but in their tendency to tweak their games’ rules in a way that the rest of the FGC, with its history in virtually option-less arcade games, has trouble identifying with. Although it’s a myth that Smash players are all teenagers, it is true that they tend to be younger. This demographic difference extends into socio-economics and race as well. Evo worked with Smash once, and although the FGC actually enjoyed watching the Smash finals, the scenes were too different to get along well in a long term kind of way. The FGC hasn’t accepted Smash and Smash hasn’t accepted the FGC.”

    I find this so unfortunate, because it honestly would be great to see the Smash community as part of the accepted FGC. I truly feel like a fighting game player, not just a Smash player. And I would honestly say Melee is a legitimate tournament game – it’s 2011 and Melee still has tournaments that get entrants in the several hundreds. Brawl, as it approaches its 4th year, is not the perfect fighting game experience, probably the most opposite. But it’s still a fighting game experience, for what it’s worth.

    “But the real issue from our perspective is that we saw Tekken 6 join MLG and then die, and then we saw Melee join MLG and then die. There are several reasons for that. Again, T6 was already losing steam. There was a match fixing scandal in Smash. But in addition to that, the scene got used to bigger payouts and to the pros doing the work for them. What had previously been full community efforts were hollowed out, with a profit-minded corporate entity taking on a significant role. When that support disappeared, so did the scenes.”

    I think there’s some confusion here.

    Super Smash Bros. Melee left MLG several years before Super Smash Bros. Brawl joined the Pro Circuit for, and only, 2010. The match fixing scandal happened in 2010 in Brawl, not Melee.

    “Look, some in the FGC worry that if we join up with pro gaming tomorrow, we’ll again risk the same kind of scene implosions that happened already to Tekken and Smash. “

    I don’t know about the Tekken community, but I definitely don’t understand how the Smash community has seen an “implosion”? Both the Brawl and Melee scenes are still thriving, which dozens upon dozens of tournaments per week happen across the globe, mainly in the US, Canada, Western Europe, Australia, and Japan. Brawl locals have always pulled good numbers in all levels of tournament play, whether it be local or the biggest national of the year. Melee is over 10 years old and it is still being supported for Apex 2012, what will become the Smash community’s bigges tournament ever, all being ran by community members and community members only, including myself. Brawl’s localest of locals still 30 or so people any given weekend. Sure, we have our small turn-outs, but so does everyone.

    Honestly, I think if the two communities were receptive of each other and made more of an attempt, we’d benefit from it. Or at least get rid of a gap that is, to be honest, unnecessary. The Smash community is trying, especially with the Smash-community-ran Apex 2012 being primarily focused on a “FGC event”, not a “Smash with fighting games” event. We want UmvC3 events to be just as hype is Brawl, SSF4 AE just as hype as Melee, and vice versa. We’re even supporting the Pokemon community with one of the biggest in-person events for the community that they’ve ever seen, bar the Nintendo-sponsored events that happen annually. The Pokemon community is certainly in no way part of the FGC, but many Smashers like to dip into their realm here and there, so we feel a connection because many are from different branches. So we have no problem with supporting them. Likewise, we have our Smashers that play Marvel, others that play Street Fighters, others that play Guilty Gear, etc. So we feel that same kind of connection with the FGC, as well, which is why we have no problem with supporting the FGC. Again, we feel like fighting game players, not just Smashers.

  • http://twitter.com/vVvRapture Dakota

    Great article, learned a lot of things I hadn’t known; what this thing does is really clarify on this FGC vs SC2 thing as a whole (though, in this case, sub-plot), especially because it has become so loud, but for sometimes unknown reasons.

    I would like to point out some incorrect things, namely because of Smash:

    “The separation is even more stark with the Smash Brothers community. Even though Super Smash Brothers: Melee is a legitimate tournament viable game, the differences between the Smash scene and the rest of the FGC have been too great for Smash to come under our roof. Smash players tend not to have our arcade history, which shows up not just in the way they act but in their tendency to tweak their games’ rules in a way that the rest of the FGC, with its history in virtually option-less arcade games, has trouble identifying with. Although it’s a myth that Smash players are all teenagers, it is true that they tend to be younger. This demographic difference extends into socio-economics and race as well. Evo worked with Smash once, and although the FGC actually enjoyed watching the Smash finals, the scenes were too different to get along well in a long term kind of way. The FGC hasn’t accepted Smash and Smash hasn’t accepted the FGC.”

    I find this so unfortunate, because it honestly would be great to see the Smash community as part of the accepted FGC. I truly feel like a fighting game player, not just a Smash player. And I would honestly say Melee is a legitimate tournament game – it’s 2011 and Melee still has tournaments that get entrants in the several hundreds. Brawl, as it approaches its 4th year, is not the perfect fighting game experience, probably the most opposite. But it’s still a fighting game experience, for what it’s worth.

    “But the real issue from our perspective is that we saw Tekken 6 join MLG and then die, and then we saw Melee join MLG and then die. There are several reasons for that. Again, T6 was already losing steam. There was a match fixing scandal in Smash. But in addition to that, the scene got used to bigger payouts and to the pros doing the work for them. What had previously been full community efforts were hollowed out, with a profit-minded corporate entity taking on a significant role. When that support disappeared, so did the scenes.”

    I think there’s some confusion here.

    Super Smash Bros. Melee left MLG several years before Super Smash Bros. Brawl joined the Pro Circuit for, and only, 2010. The match fixing scandal happened in 2010 in Brawl, not Melee.

    “Look, some in the FGC worry that if we join up with pro gaming tomorrow, we’ll again risk the same kind of scene implosions that happened already to Tekken and Smash. “

    I don’t know about the Tekken community, but I definitely don’t understand how the Smash community has seen an “implosion”? Both the Brawl and Melee scenes are still thriving, which dozens upon dozens of tournaments per week happen across the globe, mainly in the US, Canada, Western Europe, Australia, and Japan. Brawl locals have always pulled good numbers in all levels of tournament play, whether it be local or the biggest national of the year. Melee is over 10 years old and it is still being supported for Apex 2012, what will become the Smash community’s bigges tournament ever, all being ran by community members and community members only, including myself. Brawl’s localest of locals still 30 or so people any given weekend. Sure, we have our small turn-outs, but so does everyone.

    Honestly, I think if the two communities were receptive of each other and made more of an attempt, we’d benefit from it. Or at least get rid of a gap that is, to be honest, unnecessary. The Smash community is trying, especially with the Smash-community-ran Apex 2012 being primarily focused on a “FGC event”, not a “Smash with fighting games” event. We want UmvC3 events to be just as hype is Brawl, SSF4 AE just as hype as Melee, and vice versa. We’re even supporting the Pokemon community with one of the biggest in-person events for the community that they’ve ever seen, bar the Nintendo-sponsored events that happen annually. The Pokemon community is certainly in no way part of the FGC, but many Smashers like to dip into their realm here and there, so we feel a connection because many are from different branches. So we have no problem with supporting them. Likewise, we have our Smashers that play Marvel, others that play Street Fighters, others that play Guilty Gear, etc. So we feel that same kind of connection with the FGC, as well, which is why we have no problem with supporting the FGC. Again, we feel like fighting game players, not just Smashers.

  • http://twitter.com/AAWalrus Jesse Zhu

    shit, tried to reply to someone and ended up failing

  • http://twitter.com/AAWalrus Jesse Zhu

    shit, tried to reply to someone and ended up failing

  • http://twitter.com/AAWalrus Jesse Zhu

    shit, tried to reply to someone and ended up failing

  • http://twitter.com/AAWalrus Jesse Zhu

    shit, tried to reply to someone and ended up failing

  • http://twitter.com/AAWalrus Jesse Zhu

    shit, tried to reply to someone and ended up failing

  • http://twitter.com/Spaceneil8 Neil Mehta

    Great article but this part should have been researched more:
    “But the real issue from our perspective is that we saw Tekken 6 join MLG and then die, and then we saw Melee join MLG and then die.” 
    The scenes are certainly not dead. There was even an article about how Smash is still thriving.

    • http://twitter.com/3BlackGeeks 3BG

      Dead in the sense that the players stopped going to the grassroots tourney’s in favor of the MLG tourney’s. This is turn messed the community up a bit.

      • http://twitter.com/Spaceneil8 Neil Mehta

        No not really. If anything players went to more grassroots events because they could travel to more with the money from the MLG events.

      • http://twitter.com/Spaceneil8 Neil Mehta

        No not really. If anything players went to more grassroots events because they could travel to more with the money from the MLG events.

  • http://twitter.com/Spaceneil8 Neil Mehta

    Great article but this part should have been researched more:
    “But the real issue from our perspective is that we saw Tekken 6 join MLG and then die, and then we saw Melee join MLG and then die.” 
    The scenes are certainly not dead. There was even an article about how Smash is still thriving.

  • http://twitter.com/Spaceneil8 Neil Mehta

    Great article but this part should have been researched more:
    “But the real issue from our perspective is that we saw Tekken 6 join MLG and then die, and then we saw Melee join MLG and then die.” 
    The scenes are certainly not dead. There was even an article about how Smash is still thriving.

  • http://twitter.com/Spaceneil8 Neil Mehta

    Great article but this part should have been researched more:
    “But the real issue from our perspective is that we saw Tekken 6 join MLG and then die, and then we saw Melee join MLG and then die.” 
    The scenes are certainly not dead. There was even an article about how Smash is still thriving.

  • http://twitter.com/Spaceneil8 Neil Mehta

    Great article but this part should have been researched more:
    “But the real issue from our perspective is that we saw Tekken 6 join MLG and then die, and then we saw Melee join MLG and then die.” 
    The scenes are certainly not dead. There was even an article about how Smash is still thriving.

  • Anonymous

    Your insight into the communities diverging in terms of economic class and racial diversity really caught on to me. If I may, we could extend an analogy to real sports and say that boxing is to the FGC in the same way that tennis is to the SC2 community. Boxing and tennis are both established as sports, but are colored by how they appeal to people of different backgrounds, although it does not exclude possibility of overlap. IMHO, the FGC shouldn’t be trying to adapt to the rules of esports so much as it should just keep figuring itself out. Of course, if a Zuffa would come in to dominate and shape how the game is played, it might be a good thing as well/the worst thing that could ever happen ever ;)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alec-Garcia/100000468453136 Alec Garcia

    I think the problem that I personally have when it comes to the whole “esports” market is very much so… personal. I’m just starting out in my “fighting game career” as are a lot of my friends. Hell, even a few of the people I know who have been in this for awhile aren’t nearly as well known as a lot of people over in East and West coast.

    At this point it’s about exposure. People with it are going to excel when/if a merger happens. People with out it… well that’s really the main concern. What will happen to us? What happens if invitation only tournaments come about. Or if my match gets taken off stream because some known player is about to play some unknown. At that point how do we get our name out?

    As of now if we get picked up there is already a set list of names that will particularly get set aside for deals and whatnot. Some of them are already sponsored, others not. Regardless, they are already the face of the fighting game scene. And breaking through that and bringing in newer players will be much more difficult if there is already an established line.

    At least, that is how I feel in the whole situation. To people who play casually or spectators, the merge for them means better streams and more hype. But for those of us who are trying to get better, attempting to be someone in the community and gain that respect… the merge being now or in two months is a huge deal. In two months I could have or could have not made a huge play or something against a top player (not saying I will, just an example) and through not become a name that people remember. 

    I would love for bigger prize pay outs and, as we have seen before, pay outs to more then just top 3. But if these bigger pay outs also means that it is harder, or worse, impossible for me to enter, then what reason do I have to stay apart of the FGC? 

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PRAIPVYXS6T4L4ZMJKITPMV7L4 Akumous

      That’s my problem if this does happen. As it now almost any player can become the next big thing once he or she takes down a known player…For instance, thanks to Bar Fights, Knives has gotten his name out there because he had taken down the arrogant Noel Brown in a money match; he not only humiliated him but perfected him as well in Marvel. 

      We all know if the MLG becomes an integral part of the fighting game scene then only recognized players going to get exposure and only a selected view of the commentators going to commentate. 

      The only thing I see growing is bigger pay outs but as far as the next generation of players, streamers, and commentators they are pretty much screwed.  

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1564050042 Ryan Bulaclac

        Not true at all. If a kid makes an awesome run through the open bracket, he’s going to get noticed. Example: Complexity’s Goswser made a sick run in SC2 through the MLG Orlando open bracket, beating a GSL champion in Polt. People know who he is now, and no one is over looking him. In Black Ops, 4 kids younger than 18 made a run through to the championships in Columbus I believe, and they’ve been a pro-seeded team ever since. 

        There’s almost a story like this in every MLG event, as in almost every FGC event. In this case, Knives has a famous training buddy and that allowed him to get his name out there (not trying to take anything away from him, he’s a beast).

        You’re right about the stream thing, but how often do you see people you don’t know on main stream in the FGC? It’s obvious that you put the best matches and the people you want to see on the stream, you don’t put two nobodies on stream and hope one of them blows up and becomes famous.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1564050042 Ryan Bulaclac

        Not true at all. If a kid makes an awesome run through the open bracket, he’s going to get noticed. Example: Complexity’s Goswser made a sick run in SC2 through the MLG Orlando open bracket, beating a GSL champion in Polt. People know who he is now, and no one is over looking him. In Black Ops, 4 kids younger than 18 made a run through to the championships in Columbus I believe, and they’ve been a pro-seeded team ever since. 

        There’s almost a story like this in every MLG event, as in almost every FGC event. In this case, Knives has a famous training buddy and that allowed him to get his name out there (not trying to take anything away from him, he’s a beast).

        You’re right about the stream thing, but how often do you see people you don’t know on main stream in the FGC? It’s obvious that you put the best matches and the people you want to see on the stream, you don’t put two nobodies on stream and hope one of them blows up and becomes famous.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1564050042 Ryan Bulaclac

        Not true at all. If a kid makes an awesome run through the open bracket, he’s going to get noticed. Example: Complexity’s Goswser made a sick run in SC2 through the MLG Orlando open bracket, beating a GSL champion in Polt. People know who he is now, and no one is over looking him. In Black Ops, 4 kids younger than 18 made a run through to the championships in Columbus I believe, and they’ve been a pro-seeded team ever since. 

        There’s almost a story like this in every MLG event, as in almost every FGC event. In this case, Knives has a famous training buddy and that allowed him to get his name out there (not trying to take anything away from him, he’s a beast).

        You’re right about the stream thing, but how often do you see people you don’t know on main stream in the FGC? It’s obvious that you put the best matches and the people you want to see on the stream, you don’t put two nobodies on stream and hope one of them blows up and becomes famous.

    • Anonymous

      You get your name out there by getting better. I agree that invite only tournaments would be a horrible thing, but if your match gets taken off stream because Justin Wong is playing…sorry. That’s the way it goes. Keep playing and improving and it won’t be a problem.

      If you consistently win or get Top 8 at some majors, you will start to make a name for yourself. The better you are the further you go in a tournament. The further you go, the more time on stream you get and the more “known” players you face. Beat enough “known” players consistently enough, and you yourself become known.

    • Anonymous

      You get your name out there by getting better. I agree that invite only tournaments would be a horrible thing, but if your match gets taken off stream because Justin Wong is playing…sorry. That’s the way it goes. Keep playing and improving and it won’t be a problem.

      If you consistently win or get Top 8 at some majors, you will start to make a name for yourself. The better you are the further you go in a tournament. The further you go, the more time on stream you get and the more “known” players you face. Beat enough “known” players consistently enough, and you yourself become known.

  • Dan Anderson

    Awesome article, let’s keep moving forward and get that money.

  • Dan Anderson

    Awesome article, let’s keep moving forward and get that money.

  • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

    This is probably the best thing written to describe the FGC culture. Thank you UltraDavid.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

      Yeah it describes how shitty and hipstery it is, bunch of fat nerds excited cuz they can play SF in run down basements while screaming retard shit

      • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

        It gives you a site to come and spend time hating on.

      • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

        It gives you a site to come and spend time hating on.

      • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

        It gives you a site to come and spend time hating on.

  • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

    This is probably the best thing written to describe the FGC culture. Thank you UltraDavid.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alec-Garcia/100000468453136 Alec Garcia

    I’m going to agree with you a lot here. Now… I’ll just throw my personal bias here right now, I can not stand Brawl players. I’ve rarely met a Brawl player that I could hang out with, though I’ll at least admit that a) I haven’t met many of them and b) this could be very much so bad luck.

    But I know a few Melee players that I enjoy and have actually been actively been trying to learn other fighting games. Melee gets hype as shit and I enjoy watching it. Hell, I was just playing Melee last night with a few friends and I still believe it’s a great game.

    I can understand where we differentiate, though. Fighters came from arcades and smash was a console only game. As silly as that sounds it makes a huge difference. That makes it from “well everyone who frequents this mall” to “everyone that I can possibly get to frequent my place, possibly”. Keep in mind many of us were kids at the time, too. So getting together a huge group of people to play is a lot more difficult at mom/dad’s place then it is at an arcade. And that is going to make for a lot more diversity.

    My 2cents.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alec-Garcia/100000468453136 Alec Garcia

    I’m going to agree with you a lot here. Now… I’ll just throw my personal bias here right now, I can not stand Brawl players. I’ve rarely met a Brawl player that I could hang out with, though I’ll at least admit that a) I haven’t met many of them and b) this could be very much so bad luck.

    But I know a few Melee players that I enjoy and have actually been actively been trying to learn other fighting games. Melee gets hype as shit and I enjoy watching it. Hell, I was just playing Melee last night with a few friends and I still believe it’s a great game.

    I can understand where we differentiate, though. Fighters came from arcades and smash was a console only game. As silly as that sounds it makes a huge difference. That makes it from “well everyone who frequents this mall” to “everyone that I can possibly get to frequent my place, possibly”. Keep in mind many of us were kids at the time, too. So getting together a huge group of people to play is a lot more difficult at mom/dad’s place then it is at an arcade. And that is going to make for a lot more diversity.

    My 2cents.

  • Paul D’Elia

    So what happens when I play SF on my PC?  Other than Capcom hating me?

  • Paul D’Elia

    So what happens when I play SF on my PC?  Other than Capcom hating me?

  • Paul D’Elia

    So what happens when I play SF on my PC?  Other than Capcom hating me?

  • Paul D’Elia

    So what happens when I play SF on my PC?  Other than Capcom hating me?

  • Anonymous

    Got Damn David.  Got Damn.  I was actually extremely interested in writing an article like this for SRK — after CEOJebailey recentl praised my reply to another of these topics — looks like I won’t have to do that now; you’ve sincerely said all that I’ve been wanting to say and more, and I thank you for that.  I was really feeling you when you explained the FGC in broad detail — it was almost as if you were channeling a youthful S-Kill there for a moment.

    I will say this:  The single greatest feeling as a member of the community is the close and commonality that we have with each other.  This leaves us to respect ourselves on multiple levels, even if we don’t play and only spectate.  This in turn allows for mutual respect of the players, and little to no rampant fangasming as spectators.  

    We can literally pop in the tournament locale, and stand or sit RIGHT BEHIND our favorite players.  Want to meet JWong or Yipes and watch them play?  Take your ass down to where it’s going down, and they will be there and be live, no strings attached, no bullshit attached, and no sense of “Hollywood” to be found, separating you from them.  Reading those words on how the players cannot even be seen (not even speak on the fact that commentators have a certain disconnect as well with the fans) makes for a soulless atmosphere, even if SC2 people are content with this.  I seriously love this aspect of the FGC and feel it can’t be traded for anything in the world.

    Capcom definitely needs to take a much bigger part in our culture to make a bigger and better movement, but we as a community need to have more people like you, CEOJebailey, MarkMan, Mr Wizard, Sp00ky, Alex Valle (and much much more) to speak up as our front-men on each aspect of the FGC to make a case.  Personally, I’m highly interested in becoming one to do as such, but I feel I still plenty of years yet ahead of me in a business sense to make any impact.  In-so-far that, there are plenty of people way more qualified.  They just need to wake up and realize that they can make a giant difference.  We also have to grow in such a way that we can slowly part with a few fears and welcome change so we can get even bigger, without losing our roots.  

    Hey, I’m black, came from the middle income family, lived in the mean streets of a spot in the ATL, played fighters in the arcades, had a sub-par to decent schooling and all of that too.  Definitely can relate.  However, I feel it too can no longer be a factor to look down upon in comparison to SC2 or other communities.  We are all growing, and most of us are out there grinding too with 1-3 jobs… many are resuming or finishing college level education as well.  Time to put some of dat knowledge to work, back in the FGC. 

    We are definitely far from being something spectacular, but it’s certain that we are well on our way to do whatever we please a community with such momentum.  And you know what?  We have none of the limitations that any other gaming community has, even if we’ve been underground for so long.  I always tell my lady friends that they can also take part too, as the FGC has evolved waaaay past our arcade roots in the thought that it’s some “No Girls Allowed” Little Rascals party anymore.

    But hey, you know what’s up.  So does everyone else that loves this community with varying levels of seriousness.  As Wesker puts it when he calls out an assist, it’s time for all of us to “Do Work” son.

    Shoutouts to everyone up in this discussion. Nothing but good talk.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

      Are you about to cry or something?  What a pussy.  Also some community, you guys dogged MK9 before it even came out, same for DOA and Smash, yet you dickride SF all the damn time.  Only FGC is the Capcom FGC.  Fuck you bra.

      • Anonymous

        I’m not dickriding Capcom at all.  In fact I love most fighting games, brah.  From most companies — my favorite game is KOF98 (SNK Playmore).  I also play MK9 and enjoy it with my buddies regularly.  Love Melee & Brawl as well.  Can’t speak on the rest of the majority that loves Capcom based games, but that’s how it is.

        You probably shouldn’t assume you know any one person explicitly on the internet.  Makes you look like a retard with no class.  However regardless, I’m smart enough to realize that Capcom can easily make the biggest impact on the FGC.  How this could be beyond you is astounding.  Stay free.

      • Anonymous

        I’m not dickriding Capcom at all.  In fact I love most fighting games, brah.  From most companies — my favorite game is KOF98 (SNK Playmore).  I also play MK9 and enjoy it with my buddies regularly.  Love Melee & Brawl as well.  Can’t speak on the rest of the majority that loves Capcom based games, but that’s how it is.

        You probably shouldn’t assume you know any one person explicitly on the internet.  Makes you look like a retard with no class.  However regardless, I’m smart enough to realize that Capcom can easily make the biggest impact on the FGC.  How this could be beyond you is astounding.  Stay free.

      • Anonymous

        I’m not dickriding Capcom at all.  In fact I love most fighting games, brah.  From most companies — my favorite game is KOF98 (SNK Playmore).  I also play MK9 and enjoy it with my buddies regularly.  Love Melee & Brawl as well.  Can’t speak on the rest of the majority that loves Capcom based games, but that’s how it is.

        You probably shouldn’t assume you know any one person explicitly on the internet.  Makes you look like a retard with no class.  However regardless, I’m smart enough to realize that Capcom can easily make the biggest impact on the FGC.  How this could be beyond you is astounding.  Stay free.

      • Anonymous

        I’m not dickriding Capcom at all.  In fact I love most fighting games, brah.  From most companies — my favorite game is KOF98 (SNK Playmore).  I also play MK9 and enjoy it with my buddies regularly.  Love Melee & Brawl as well.  Can’t speak on the rest of the majority that loves Capcom based games, but that’s how it is.

        You probably shouldn’t assume you know any one person explicitly on the internet.  Makes you look like a retard with no class.  However regardless, I’m smart enough to realize that Capcom can easily make the biggest impact on the FGC.  How this could be beyond you is astounding.  Stay free.

      • Anonymous

        I’m not dickriding Capcom at all.  In fact I love most fighting games, brah.  From most companies — my favorite game is KOF98 (SNK Playmore).  I also play MK9 and enjoy it with my buddies regularly.  Love Melee & Brawl as well.  Can’t speak on the rest of the majority that loves Capcom based games, but that’s how it is.

        You probably shouldn’t assume you know any one person explicitly on the internet.  Makes you look like a retard with no class.  However regardless, I’m smart enough to realize that Capcom can easily make the biggest impact on the FGC.  How this could be beyond you is astounding.  Stay free.

      • Anonymous

        I’m not dickriding Capcom at all.  In fact I love most fighting games, brah.  From most companies — my favorite game is KOF98 (SNK Playmore).  I also play MK9 and enjoy it with my buddies regularly.  Love Melee & Brawl as well.  Can’t speak on the rest of the majority that loves Capcom based games, but that’s how it is.

        You probably shouldn’t assume you know any one person explicitly on the internet.  Makes you look like a retard with no class.  However regardless, I’m smart enough to realize that Capcom can easily make the biggest impact on the FGC.  How this could be beyond you is astounding.  Stay free.

      • Anonymous

        I’m not dickriding Capcom at all.  In fact I love most fighting games, brah.  From most companies — my favorite game is KOF98 (SNK Playmore).  I also play MK9 and enjoy it with my buddies regularly.  Love Melee & Brawl as well.  Can’t speak on the rest of the majority that loves Capcom based games, but that’s how it is.

        You probably shouldn’t assume you know any one person explicitly on the internet.  Makes you look like a retard with no class.  However regardless, I’m smart enough to realize that Capcom can easily make the biggest impact on the FGC.  How this could be beyond you is astounding.  Stay free.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

          Capcom is shit and won’t make any impact besides churning out that shit party game SfxTekken

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

          Capcom is shit and won’t make any impact besides churning out that shit party game SfxTekken

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

      Are you about to cry or something?  What a pussy.  Also some community, you guys dogged MK9 before it even came out, same for DOA and Smash, yet you dickride SF all the damn time.  Only FGC is the Capcom FGC.  Fuck you bra.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

      Are you about to cry or something?  What a pussy.  Also some community, you guys dogged MK9 before it even came out, same for DOA and Smash, yet you dickride SF all the damn time.  Only FGC is the Capcom FGC.  Fuck you bra.

  • Anonymous

    Got Damn David.  Got Damn.  I was actually extremely interested in writing an article like this for SRK — after CEOJebailey recentl praised my reply to another of these topics — looks like I won’t have to do that now; you’ve sincerely said all that I’ve been wanting to say and more, and I thank you for that.  I was really feeling you when you explained the FGC in broad detail — it was almost as if you were channeling a youthful S-Kill there for a moment.

    I will say this:  The single greatest feeling as a member of the community is the close and commonality that we have with each other.  This leaves us to respect ourselves on multiple levels, even if we don’t play and only spectate.  This in turn allows for mutual respect of the players, and little to no rampant fangasming as spectators.  

    We can literally pop in the tournament locale, and stand or sit RIGHT BEHIND our favorite players.  Want to meet JWong or Yipes and watch them play?  Take your ass down to where it’s going down, and they will be there and be live, no strings attached, no bullshit attached, and no sense of “Hollywood” to be found, separating you from them.  Reading those words on how the players cannot even be seen (not even speak on the fact that commentators have a certain disconnect as well with the fans) makes for a soulless atmosphere, even if SC2 people are content with this.  I seriously love this aspect of the FGC and feel it can’t be traded for anything in the world.

    Capcom definitely needs to take a much bigger part in our culture to make a bigger and better movement, but we as a community need to have more people like you, CEOJebailey, MarkMan, Mr Wizard, Sp00ky, Alex Valle (and much much more) to speak up as our front-men on each aspect of the FGC to make a case.  Personally, I’m highly interested in becoming one to do as such, but I feel I still plenty of years yet ahead of me in a business sense to make any impact.  In-so-far that, there are plenty of people way more qualified.  They just need to wake up and realize that they can make a giant difference.  We also have to grow in such a way that we can slowly part with a few fears and welcome change so we can get even bigger, without losing our roots.  

    Hey, I’m black, came from the middle income family, lived in the mean streets of a spot in the ATL, played fighters in the arcades, had a sub-par to decent schooling and all of that too.  Definitely can relate.  However, I feel it too can no longer be a factor to look down upon in comparison to SC2 or other communities.  We are all growing, and most of us are out there grinding too with 1-3 jobs… many are resuming or finishing college level education as well.  Time to put some of dat knowledge to work, back in the FGC. 

    We are definitely far from being something spectacular, but it’s certain that we are well on our way to do whatever we please a community with such momentum.  And you know what?  We have none of the limitations that any other gaming community has, even if we’ve been underground for so long.  I always tell my lady friends that they can also take part too, as the FGC has evolved waaaay past our arcade roots in the thought that it’s some “No Girls Allowed” Little Rascals party anymore.

    But hey, you know what’s up.  So does everyone else that loves this community with varying levels of seriousness.  As Wesker puts it when he calls out an assist, it’s time for all of us to “Do Work” son.

    Shoutouts to everyone up in this discussion. Nothing but good talk.

  • Anonymous

    Got Damn David.  Got Damn.  I was actually extremely interested in writing an article like this for SRK — after CEOJebailey recentl praised my reply to another of these topics — looks like I won’t have to do that now; you’ve sincerely said all that I’ve been wanting to say and more, and I thank you for that.  I was really feeling you when you explained the FGC in broad detail — it was almost as if you were channeling a youthful S-Kill there for a moment.

    I will say this:  The single greatest feeling as a member of the community is the close and commonality that we have with each other.  This leaves us to respect ourselves on multiple levels, even if we don’t play and only spectate.  This in turn allows for mutual respect of the players, and little to no rampant fangasming as spectators.  

    We can literally pop in the tournament locale, and stand or sit RIGHT BEHIND our favorite players.  Want to meet JWong or Yipes and watch them play?  Take your ass down to where it’s going down, and they will be there and be live, no strings attached, no bullshit attached, and no sense of “Hollywood” to be found, separating you from them.  Reading those words on how the players cannot even be seen (not even speak on the fact that commentators have a certain disconnect as well with the fans) makes for a soulless atmosphere, even if SC2 people are content with this.  I seriously love this aspect of the FGC and feel it can’t be traded for anything in the world.

    Capcom definitely needs to take a much bigger part in our culture to make a bigger and better movement, but we as a community need to have more people like you, CEOJebailey, MarkMan, Mr Wizard, Sp00ky, Alex Valle (and much much more) to speak up as our front-men on each aspect of the FGC to make a case.  Personally, I’m highly interested in becoming one to do as such, but I feel I still plenty of years yet ahead of me in a business sense to make any impact.  In-so-far that, there are plenty of people way more qualified.  They just need to wake up and realize that they can make a giant difference.  We also have to grow in such a way that we can slowly part with a few fears and welcome change so we can get even bigger, without losing our roots.  

    Hey, I’m black, came from the middle income family, lived in the mean streets of a spot in the ATL, played fighters in the arcades, had a sub-par to decent schooling and all of that too.  Definitely can relate.  However, I feel it too can no longer be a factor to look down upon in comparison to SC2 or other communities.  We are all growing, and most of us are out there grinding too with 1-3 jobs… many are resuming or finishing college level education as well.  Time to put some of dat knowledge to work, back in the FGC. 

    We are definitely far from being something spectacular, but it’s certain that we are well on our way to do whatever we please a community with such momentum.  And you know what?  We have none of the limitations that any other gaming community has, even if we’ve been underground for so long.  I always tell my lady friends that they can also take part too, as the FGC has evolved waaaay past our arcade roots in the thought that it’s some “No Girls Allowed” Little Rascals party anymore.

    But hey, you know what’s up.  So does everyone else that loves this community with varying levels of seriousness.  As Wesker puts it when he calls out an assist, it’s time for all of us to “Do Work” son.

    Shoutouts to everyone up in this discussion. Nothing but good talk.

  • Anonymous

    Got Damn David.  Got Damn.  I was actually extremely interested in writing an article like this for SRK — after CEOJebailey recentl praised my reply to another of these topics — looks like I won’t have to do that now; you’ve sincerely said all that I’ve been wanting to say and more, and I thank you for that.  I was really feeling you when you explained the FGC in broad detail — it was almost as if you were channeling a youthful S-Kill there for a moment.

    I will say this:  The single greatest feeling as a member of the community is the close and commonality that we have with each other.  This leaves us to respect ourselves on multiple levels, even if we don’t play and only spectate.  This in turn allows for mutual respect of the players, and little to no rampant fangasming as spectators.  

    We can literally pop in the tournament locale, and stand or sit RIGHT BEHIND our favorite players.  Want to meet JWong or Yipes and watch them play?  Take your ass down to where it’s going down, and they will be there and be live, no strings attached, no bullshit attached, and no sense of “Hollywood” to be found, separating you from them.  Reading those words on how the players cannot even be seen (not even speak on the fact that commentators have a certain disconnect as well with the fans) makes for a soulless atmosphere, even if SC2 people are content with this.  I seriously love this aspect of the FGC and feel it can’t be traded for anything in the world.

    Capcom definitely needs to take a much bigger part in our culture to make a bigger and better movement, but we as a community need to have more people like you, CEOJebailey, MarkMan, Mr Wizard, Sp00ky, Alex Valle (and much much more) to speak up as our front-men on each aspect of the FGC to make a case.  Personally, I’m highly interested in becoming one to do as such, but I feel I still plenty of years yet ahead of me in a business sense to make any impact.  In-so-far that, there are plenty of people way more qualified.  They just need to wake up and realize that they can make a giant difference.  We also have to grow in such a way that we can slowly part with a few fears and welcome change so we can get even bigger, without losing our roots.  

    Hey, I’m black, came from the middle income family, lived in the mean streets of a spot in the ATL, played fighters in the arcades, had a sub-par to decent schooling and all of that too.  Definitely can relate.  However, I feel it too can no longer be a factor to look down upon in comparison to SC2 or other communities.  We are all growing, and most of us are out there grinding too with 1-3 jobs… many are resuming or finishing college level education as well.  Time to put some of dat knowledge to work, back in the FGC. 

    We are definitely far from being something spectacular, but it’s certain that we are well on our way to do whatever we please a community with such momentum.  And you know what?  We have none of the limitations that any other gaming community has, even if we’ve been underground for so long.  I always tell my lady friends that they can also take part too, as the FGC has evolved waaaay past our arcade roots in the thought that it’s some “No Girls Allowed” Little Rascals party anymore.

    But hey, you know what’s up.  So does everyone else that loves this community with varying levels of seriousness.  As Wesker puts it when he calls out an assist, it’s time for all of us to “Do Work” son.

    Shoutouts to everyone up in this discussion. Nothing but good talk.

  • Anonymous

    Got Damn David.  Got Damn.  I was actually extremely interested in writing an article like this for SRK — after CEOJebailey recentl praised my reply to another of these topics — looks like I won’t have to do that now; you’ve sincerely said all that I’ve been wanting to say and more, and I thank you for that.  I was really feeling you when you explained the FGC in broad detail — it was almost as if you were channeling a youthful S-Kill there for a moment.

    I will say this:  The single greatest feeling as a member of the community is the close and commonality that we have with each other.  This leaves us to respect ourselves on multiple levels, even if we don’t play and only spectate.  This in turn allows for mutual respect of the players, and little to no rampant fangasming as spectators.  

    We can literally pop in the tournament locale, and stand or sit RIGHT BEHIND our favorite players.  Want to meet JWong or Yipes and watch them play?  Take your ass down to where it’s going down, and they will be there and be live, no strings attached, no bullshit attached, and no sense of “Hollywood” to be found, separating you from them.  Reading those words on how the players cannot even be seen (not even speak on the fact that commentators have a certain disconnect as well with the fans) makes for a soulless atmosphere, even if SC2 people are content with this.  I seriously love this aspect of the FGC and feel it can’t be traded for anything in the world.

    Capcom definitely needs to take a much bigger part in our culture to make a bigger and better movement, but we as a community need to have more people like you, CEOJebailey, MarkMan, Mr Wizard, Sp00ky, Alex Valle (and much much more) to speak up as our front-men on each aspect of the FGC to make a case.  Personally, I’m highly interested in becoming one to do as such, but I feel I still plenty of years yet ahead of me in a business sense to make any impact.  In-so-far that, there are plenty of people way more qualified.  They just need to wake up and realize that they can make a giant difference.  We also have to grow in such a way that we can slowly part with a few fears and welcome change so we can get even bigger, without losing our roots.  

    Hey, I’m black, came from the middle income family, lived in the mean streets of a spot in the ATL, played fighters in the arcades, had a sub-par to decent schooling and all of that too.  Definitely can relate.  However, I feel it too can no longer be a factor to look down upon in comparison to SC2 or other communities.  We are all growing, and most of us are out there grinding too with 1-3 jobs… many are resuming or finishing college level education as well.  Time to put some of dat knowledge to work, back in the FGC. 

    We are definitely far from being something spectacular, but it’s certain that we are well on our way to do whatever we please a community with such momentum.  And you know what?  We have none of the limitations that any other gaming community has, even if we’ve been underground for so long.  I always tell my lady friends that they can also take part too, as the FGC has evolved waaaay past our arcade roots in the thought that it’s some “No Girls Allowed” Little Rascals party anymore.

    But hey, you know what’s up.  So does everyone else that loves this community with varying levels of seriousness.  As Wesker puts it when he calls out an assist, it’s time for all of us to “Do Work” son.

    Shoutouts to everyone up in this discussion. Nothing but good talk.

  • Anonymous

    I agreed with most of the points in this article expect for this:

    “They sell better and they never went through anything like our Dead Era. From 2001 to 2008, there were literally no tournament viable 2D fighting games released without an import-only restriction.”

    Which is not true at all unless you were a Capcom-only player. Take off those rose-colored shades for a second and realize that fighters were still being consistently released during that time period. SNK was still releasing some domestic ports of their arcade fighters. Arc Sys Works ported every game in the Guilty Gear XX series, and Namco released domestic ports of Tekken and Soul Calibur during that time period. All or most of which were tournament viable. Just because Capcom quit making fighters during that time period doesn’t mean the whole scene was “dead”.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

    Some longwinded shit bra, FGC needs to be more like the MLG if they wanna survive

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

    Some longwinded shit bra, FGC needs to be more like the MLG if they wanna survive

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

    Some longwinded shit bra, FGC needs to be more like the MLG if they wanna survive

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

    Some longwinded shit bra, FGC needs to be more like the MLG if they wanna survive

  • Nathan Sanchez

    Holy shit, UltraD, was that some graduate thesis for some class on fighting games? 

    I loved every word. I’ve been a member of this community for almost 20 years and you hit the nail on the head while also giving some incredible insight that I wasn’t aware of. I’m going to link t this on r/starcraft and Teamliquid right away. 

  • Nathan Sanchez

    Holy shit, UltraD, was that some graduate thesis for some class on fighting games? 

    I loved every word. I’ve been a member of this community for almost 20 years and you hit the nail on the head while also giving some incredible insight that I wasn’t aware of. I’m going to link t this on r/starcraft and Teamliquid right away. 

  • Anonymous

    “All the information is on screen at once, the pace is extremely fast,
    the hype makes itself, and as a viewer the game music and sounds are
    irrelevant. Sure, having a commentator is nice, but nobody needs a
    narrator.”

    And that’s why fighting game commentary is so bad. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

      Agreed, some black dude screaming “OMFG GET HYPE” over and over is retarded ass commentary.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

      Agreed, some black dude screaming “OMFG GET HYPE” over and over is retarded ass commentary.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

      Agreed, some black dude screaming “OMFG GET HYPE” over and over is retarded ass commentary.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

      Agreed, some black dude screaming “OMFG GET HYPE” over and over is retarded ass commentary.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

      Agreed, some black dude screaming “OMFG GET HYPE” over and over is retarded ass commentary.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

      Agreed, some black dude screaming “OMFG GET HYPE” over and over is retarded ass commentary.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

      Agreed, some black dude screaming “OMFG GET HYPE” over and over is retarded ass commentary.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

      Agreed, some black dude screaming “OMFG GET HYPE” over and over is retarded ass commentary.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

      Agreed, some black dude screaming “OMFG GET HYPE” over and over is retarded ass commentary.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

      Agreed, some black dude screaming “OMFG GET HYPE” over and over is retarded ass commentary.

  • Anonymous

    “All the information is on screen at once, the pace is extremely fast,
    the hype makes itself, and as a viewer the game music and sounds are
    irrelevant. Sure, having a commentator is nice, but nobody needs a
    narrator.”

    And that’s why fighting game commentary is so bad. 

  • http://twitter.com/BerzerkDC Daniel Chlebowczyk

    The fighting game community and other gaming communities, when playing their games competitively – ARE esports.  Competitive gaming, esports, whatever term. It is what it is.

    Traditional leagues that began in the PC scene with that business model are different to how the fighting game scene began BUT, unity and convergence is how we’ll all get bigger.

    Don’t resist for the sake of it – join, and maintain identity, but we need to be unified for the sake of all competitive gaming, which the general gaming world, let alone anyone else, does not take seriously.

    In short, this tune would be completely different if MLG or WCG picked up Street Fighter 4.  It doesn’t make the other games in those leagues less valid (including past fighting games) just because they happened before the explosion of new interest with SF4.

    Put a Capcom game in these traditional leagues and watch people just get on board.  It can all coexist.

    • Anonymous

       From the article, it sounds like MLG  wanted to host SF4, however Capcom wouldn’t allow the license. Lack of support from Capcom.

  • http://twitter.com/BerzerkDC Daniel Chlebowczyk

    The fighting game community and other gaming communities, when playing their games competitively – ARE esports.  Competitive gaming, esports, whatever term. It is what it is.

    Traditional leagues that began in the PC scene with that business model are different to how the fighting game scene began BUT, unity and convergence is how we’ll all get bigger.

    Don’t resist for the sake of it – join, and maintain identity, but we need to be unified for the sake of all competitive gaming, which the general gaming world, let alone anyone else, does not take seriously.

    In short, this tune would be completely different if MLG or WCG picked up Street Fighter 4.  It doesn’t make the other games in those leagues less valid (including past fighting games) just because they happened before the explosion of new interest with SF4.

    Put a Capcom game in these traditional leagues and watch people just get on board.  It can all coexist.

  • Anonymous

    “All the information is on screen at once, the pace is extremely fast,
    the hype makes itself, and as a viewer the game music and sounds are
    irrelevant. Sure, having a commentator is nice, but nobody needs a
    narrator.”

    And that’s why fighting game commentary is so bad.  Would you argue that football doesn’t need commentary because you can see for yourself whether the guy caught the ball or not?

    Unfortunately I’m not familiar enough with it to suggest more than aline of inquiry, but I think Korea’s PC-rooms have a lot more in common with arcades than you realize.  LAN centers in the US may be relatively rare and expensive, but in Korea they’re dirt cheap and they’re EVERYWHERE.  You speak like Starcraft came as a fully-formed competitive game from across the seas, but I think there’s something of its evolution there that should be looked at.

    However, I completely agree that Blizzard is a huge part of StarCraft 2′s success, and Capcom is not at all taking that roll with their games.

  • Anonymous

    “All the information is on screen at once, the pace is extremely fast,
    the hype makes itself, and as a viewer the game music and sounds are
    irrelevant. Sure, having a commentator is nice, but nobody needs a
    narrator.”

    And that’s why fighting game commentary is so bad.  Would you argue that football doesn’t need commentary because you can see for yourself whether the guy caught the ball or not?

    Unfortunately I’m not familiar enough with it to suggest more than aline of inquiry, but I think Korea’s PC-rooms have a lot more in common with arcades than you realize.  LAN centers in the US may be relatively rare and expensive, but in Korea they’re dirt cheap and they’re EVERYWHERE.  You speak like Starcraft came as a fully-formed competitive game from across the seas, but I think there’s something of its evolution there that should be looked at.

    However, I completely agree that Blizzard is a huge part of StarCraft 2′s success, and Capcom is not at all taking that roll with their games.

  • Anonymous

    Totally agree with the comments about Capcom being a Japanese company. Having had the pleasure of talking to guys like Sven (Capcom Sr. VP Christian Svensson), I’ve gotten the impression that Capcom USA would like for big things to happen but are being held back by the folks in Japan.

  • Anonymous

    Totally agree with the comments about Capcom being a Japanese company. Having had the pleasure of talking to guys like Sven (Capcom Sr. VP Christian Svensson), I’ve gotten the impression that Capcom USA would like for big things to happen but are being held back by the folks in Japan.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

      That’s because japs are stupid and stuck in their ways.  If it wasn’t for America they’d still be walking around in bathrobes feeding oversized goldfish in ponds and beating their wives for speaking.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

      That’s because japs are stupid and stuck in their ways.  If it wasn’t for America they’d still be walking around in bathrobes feeding oversized goldfish in ponds and beating their wives for speaking.

  • Anonymous

    Totally agree with the comments about Capcom being a Japanese company. Having had the pleasure of talking to guys like Sven (Capcom Sr. VP Christian Svensson), I’ve gotten the impression that Capcom USA would like for big things to happen but are being held back by the folks in Japan.

  • Anonymous

    Totally agree with the comments about Capcom being a Japanese company. Having had the pleasure of talking to guys like Sven (Capcom Sr. VP Christian Svensson), I’ve gotten the impression that Capcom USA would like for big things to happen but are being held back by the folks in Japan.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001743622547 Zane Hayden

    Starcraft community confirmed for aging senior citizens.
    But in all seriousness, great read by David, agreed with every bit of it. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001743622547 Zane Hayden

    Starcraft community confirmed for aging senior citizens.
    But in all seriousness, great read by David, agreed with every bit of it. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=646353079 Paul Hindt

    While I agree that the FGC did start and grow from the close-knit, insular arcade scene, a lot of new players were never part of that place in time. The fighting game community and scene as a whole has been going through a big transformation over the last few years. This is a point that seems to never be made. A lot of the people that only started playing fighting games when SF4 dropped may have never been in or seen an arcade in their lives. Some of these players have even accomplished a great deal of training through online play (Wolfkrone and Vangief come to mind).

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=646353079 Paul Hindt

    While I agree that the FGC did start and grow from the close-knit, insular arcade scene, a lot of new players were never part of that place in time. The fighting game community and scene as a whole has been going through a big transformation over the last few years. This is a point that seems to never be made. A lot of the people that only started playing fighting games when SF4 dropped may have never been in or seen an arcade in their lives. Some of these players have even accomplished a great deal of training through online play (Wolfkrone and Vangief come to mind).

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=646353079 Paul Hindt

    While I agree that the FGC did start and grow from the close-knit, insular arcade scene, a lot of new players were never part of that place in time. The fighting game community and scene as a whole has been going through a big transformation over the last few years. This is a point that seems to never be made. A lot of the people that only started playing fighting games when SF4 dropped may have never been in or seen an arcade in their lives. Some of these players have even accomplished a great deal of training through online play (Wolfkrone and Vangief come to mind).

  • http://twitter.com/Hey_TraFlocka DJ STANK DADDY

    This is a very very VERY VERY good article. :D

  • http://twitter.com/Hey_TraFlocka DJ STANK DADDY

    This is a very very VERY VERY good article. :D

  • http://twitter.com/rjpk08 Raleigh Kung

    Excellent read, well-thought analysis. I only wish you broke it down to a series of articles so that more people can digest it without TL;DR -ing.

  • http://twitter.com/rjpk08 Raleigh Kung

    Excellent read, well-thought analysis. I only wish you broke it down to a series of articles so that more people can digest it without TL;DR -ing.

  • http://twitter.com/prslol Miley Cyrus

    It’s nice to see a well written piece on this spammed front page but in all honesty David, I think you mistitled your piece.

    I feel like your article is comparing the FGC (well the capcom part) to SC2, not the FGC to eSports. As you wrote in your article the FGC isn’t really one community in reality they just kind of go together. I feel thats the same situation with the eSports community and its always been that way. TBH only recently has it become one, mostly because everybody plays blizzard games.

    In the past most of the games were only related in the same way the FGC is related. They play at the same tournaments most of time. Thats pretty much the extent of it. Just like the FGC has dustloop, tekkenzaibatsu, srk etc. the FPS community had Gotfrag, Sogamed, ESreality, Cached, WC3demos, teamliquid etc. Other than playing at the same events sometimes, theres little to no crossover between the communities. FGC vs Smash is the same as FPS PC vs Console like you mentioned.

    I think if you actually compared the communities you’d find a lot more similarities. The FGC wasn’t the only underground community, nor was it the only competitive scene to go through a dark period.

    I also think most companies are totally unsupportive. Most of the support has been recent. Valve was probably the hardest company to work with and they owned the biggest competitive game for the longest time and didn’t give a damn. They also seem scared to try and follow up with CS because of how CS:S went. They finally are giving a halfassed effort with CS:GO.

    Anyways I don’t feel like writing an essay as long as yours in the comments section so I’ll stop myself short. I think very few people are actually qualified, if any, to compare the two communities because for the most part no one was a major part of both scenes over the majority of their lifespans.

    I’m just kind of tired of reading these debates and people basically only refering to SC2 unless they’re actually an old school PC gamer as well. Some of the people on this site make it seem like a cake walk for PC games to emerge when thats not the case at all. Or that everything went wonderfully for PC gamers and the companies and sponsors fully supported them, when this is not true at all.

    I feel like a lot of the tension is stemming from the FGC feeling like they’ve been shafted while the esports community has been giftwrapped everything. This isn’t the case at all and players in the esports community know that, I feel thats why the esports community is more open to the FGC then vice versa.

    Honestly it might be interesting just for you and some other FG people to go on DJwheats radio show or something and discuss this topic. I don’t really respect those guys but at least Wheats and Scoots have been around for nearly everything.

    • Anonymous

      Did you say “cyber athlete.” You got athletes consisting of half-man and half-robot? How do these cyber athletes train? Do they run 10 miles a day? Do they strength condition 3-5 days a week?

    • Anonymous

      Did you say “cyber athlete.” You got athletes consisting of half-man and half-robot? How do these cyber athletes train? Do they run 10 miles a day? Do they strength condition 3-5 days a week?

  • http://twitter.com/prslol Miley Cyrus

    It’s nice to see a well written piece on this spammed front page but in all honesty David, I think you mistitled your piece.

    I feel like your article is comparing the FGC (well the capcom part) to SC2, not the FGC to eSports. As you wrote in your article the FGC isn’t really one community in reality they just kind of go together. I feel thats the same situation with the eSports community and its always been that way. TBH only recently has it become one, mostly because everybody plays blizzard games.

    In the past most of the games were only related in the same way the FGC is related. They play at the same tournaments most of time. Thats pretty much the extent of it. Just like the FGC has dustloop, tekkenzaibatsu, srk etc. the FPS community had Gotfrag, Sogamed, ESreality, Cached, WC3demos, teamliquid etc. Other than playing at the same events sometimes, theres little to no crossover between the communities. FGC vs Smash is the same as FPS PC vs Console like you mentioned.

    I think if you actually compared the communities you’d find a lot more similarities. The FGC wasn’t the only underground community, nor was it the only competitive scene to go through a dark period.

    I also think most companies are totally unsupportive. Most of the support has been recent. Valve was probably the hardest company to work with and they owned the biggest competitive game for the longest time and didn’t give a damn. They also seem scared to try and follow up with CS because of how CS:S went. They finally are giving a halfassed effort with CS:GO.

    Anyways I don’t feel like writing an essay as long as yours in the comments section so I’ll stop myself short. I think very few people are actually qualified, if any, to compare the two communities because for the most part no one was a major part of both scenes over the majority of their lifespans.

    I’m just kind of tired of reading these debates and people basically only refering to SC2 unless they’re actually an old school PC gamer as well. Some of the people on this site make it seem like a cake walk for PC games to emerge when thats not the case at all. Or that everything went wonderfully for PC gamers and the companies and sponsors fully supported them, when this is not true at all.

    I feel like a lot of the tension is stemming from the FGC feeling like they’ve been shafted while the esports community has been giftwrapped everything. This isn’t the case at all and players in the esports community know that, I feel thats why the esports community is more open to the FGC then vice versa.

    Honestly it might be interesting just for you and some other FG people to go on DJwheats radio show or something and discuss this topic. I don’t really respect those guys but at least Wheats and Scoots have been around for nearly everything.

  • Anonymous

    Absolutely fantastic article.

  • Anonymous

    Absolutely fantastic article.

  • Anonymous

    Absolutely fantastic article.

  • Zachery Oliver

    You could publish this in an academic journal, if there were such a thing for this subject.

  • Zachery Oliver

    You could publish this in an academic journal, if there were such a thing for this subject.

  • Zachery Oliver

    You could publish this in an academic journal, if there were such a thing for this subject.

  • Zachery Oliver

    You could publish this in an academic journal, if there were such a thing for this subject.

  • Anonymous

    As a non FG player who loves watching I think UltraDavid under sells his importance as a commentatorr. I actually only like watching streams/events where you commentate because I it helps me follow along.

    Without your knowledge of the game and letting me know what strategic moves or tactics the players are or should be trying it’s just not as exciting. I don’t know when a guy drops a combo or  should of done something different in MvC. I don’t know if XvY is a bad match up for X or how X should approach fighting Y. I just know that you shouldn’t get hit!

    It greatly enhances the viewing experience from you’re commentary. I’m not a big fan of the hype commentary since I might as well just mute the stream, it’s that analytical stuff that gives me an inside on what the player might be thinking or trying to do that helps make watching so much better!

    • Anonymous

      This x 1000. I didn’t get into watching streams until I saw one by UltraChen. The amount of indepth analysis and explanation on things that a beginner like I was had no idea about was abundant and was by and far my favorite thing about the streams. Not only did it help me understand better what was going on in the match, but it gave me a greater respect and understanding of the game that was being played. After an hour or two of watching UltraChen explain the high level matches, I went “Damn, this stuff is DEEP.” It was way deeper than I’d ever imagined and I’ve been hooked ever since. Don’t sell yourself short, guys.

  • Anonymous

    As a non FG player who loves watching I think UltraDavid under sells his importance as a commentatorr. I actually only like watching streams/events where you commentate because I it helps me follow along.

    Without your knowledge of the game and letting me know what strategic moves or tactics the players are or should be trying it’s just not as exciting. I don’t know when a guy drops a combo or  should of done something different in MvC. I don’t know if XvY is a bad match up for X or how X should approach fighting Y. I just know that you shouldn’t get hit!

    It greatly enhances the viewing experience from you’re commentary. I’m not a big fan of the hype commentary since I might as well just mute the stream, it’s that analytical stuff that gives me an inside on what the player might be thinking or trying to do that helps make watching so much better!

  • Anonymous

    As a non FG player who loves watching I think UltraDavid under sells his importance as a commentatorr. I actually only like watching streams/events where you commentate because I it helps me follow along.

    Without your knowledge of the game and letting me know what strategic moves or tactics the players are or should be trying it’s just not as exciting. I don’t know when a guy drops a combo or  should of done something different in MvC. I don’t know if XvY is a bad match up for X or how X should approach fighting Y. I just know that you shouldn’t get hit!

    It greatly enhances the viewing experience from you’re commentary. I’m not a big fan of the hype commentary since I might as well just mute the stream, it’s that analytical stuff that gives me an inside on what the player might be thinking or trying to do that helps make watching so much better!

  • Anonymous

    As a non FG player who loves watching I think UltraDavid under sells his importance as a commentatorr. I actually only like watching streams/events where you commentate because I it helps me follow along.

    Without your knowledge of the game and letting me know what strategic moves or tactics the players are or should be trying it’s just not as exciting. I don’t know when a guy drops a combo or  should of done something different in MvC. I don’t know if XvY is a bad match up for X or how X should approach fighting Y. I just know that you shouldn’t get hit!

    It greatly enhances the viewing experience from you’re commentary. I’m not a big fan of the hype commentary since I might as well just mute the stream, it’s that analytical stuff that gives me an inside on what the player might be thinking or trying to do that helps make watching so much better!

  • Anonymous

    As a non FG player who loves watching I think UltraDavid under sells his importance as a commentatorr. I actually only like watching streams/events where you commentate because I it helps me follow along.

    Without your knowledge of the game and letting me know what strategic moves or tactics the players are or should be trying it’s just not as exciting. I don’t know when a guy drops a combo or  should of done something different in MvC. I don’t know if XvY is a bad match up for X or how X should approach fighting Y. I just know that you shouldn’t get hit!

    It greatly enhances the viewing experience from you’re commentary. I’m not a big fan of the hype commentary since I might as well just mute the stream, it’s that analytical stuff that gives me an inside on what the player might be thinking or trying to do that helps make watching so much better!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PRAIPVYXS6T4L4ZMJKITPMV7L4 Akumous

    FGC is doing extremely well thanks to modern internet technologies and viral marketing methods done by the players and community mediums. I don’t think the FGC needs MLG to grow because it is doing well on its own, building its own culture and way of doing things. 

    The PC games have grown to the level it is now because solely because of sponsors that made generous contributions. In comparison, however, the FGC has limited sponsors because of the nature of the games but they should look to other sponsors like energy drink companies and fast foods because they do consumed these products on the streams so it only make sense. 

    I think everyone, every streamer regardless of size should work together and share the wealth evenly, and that’s how it would grow. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PRAIPVYXS6T4L4ZMJKITPMV7L4 Akumous

    FGC is doing extremely well thanks to modern internet technologies and viral marketing methods done by the players and community mediums. I don’t think the FGC needs MLG to grow because it is doing well on its own, building its own culture and way of doing things. 

    The PC games have grown to the level it is now because solely because of sponsors that made generous contributions. In comparison, however, the FGC has limited sponsors because of the nature of the games but they should look to other sponsors like energy drink companies and fast foods because they do consumed these products on the streams so it only make sense. 

    I think everyone, every streamer regardless of size should work together and share the wealth evenly, and that’s how it would grow. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

      FGC needs MLG so they can replace ugly fucks like Wong with faces that are actually marketable.  Monster Energy doesn’t want some fat pimply asian to be the face of their drink.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/MonsterEnergy-Bro/100003222768566 MonsterEnergy Bro

      FGC needs MLG so they can replace ugly fucks like Wong with faces that are actually marketable.  Monster Energy doesn’t want some fat pimply asian to be the face of their drink.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PRAIPVYXS6T4L4ZMJKITPMV7L4 Akumous

        You’re wrong…FGC doesn’t need MLG at all, if anything they only value the monetary incentive but as I said in prior post, that money will come. FGC has brilliant minds and one day they will collaborate figure out how to retain its profitability without undermining its culture. 

        Maybe one day I will partake in that vision or you or anyone else in this forum thread. My biggest fear, however, is I don’t want the smaller venues and streamers to be filtered out the equation. Everyone should have a chance to be the next Justin Wong as a player or the next Ultradavid as a commentator. Once corporations get into the mix those windows will be selective and hence alienate potential players and kill off smaller streamers. 

        The community has gotten as far as it did because everyone is working together…money does changes things especially the greed of it…and I don’t want profit centric mindsets ruin the community. However, it should be sufficient to keep this thing going and sustaining but not to the point of destroying the culture.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PRAIPVYXS6T4L4ZMJKITPMV7L4 Akumous

        You’re wrong…FGC doesn’t need MLG at all, if anything they only value the monetary incentive but as I said in prior post, that money will come. FGC has brilliant minds and one day they will collaborate figure out how to retain its profitability without undermining its culture. 

        Maybe one day I will partake in that vision or you or anyone else in this forum thread. My biggest fear, however, is I don’t want the smaller venues and streamers to be filtered out the equation. Everyone should have a chance to be the next Justin Wong as a player or the next Ultradavid as a commentator. Once corporations get into the mix those windows will be selective and hence alienate potential players and kill off smaller streamers. 

        The community has gotten as far as it did because everyone is working together…money does changes things especially the greed of it…and I don’t want profit centric mindsets ruin the community. However, it should be sufficient to keep this thing going and sustaining but not to the point of destroying the culture.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PRAIPVYXS6T4L4ZMJKITPMV7L4 Akumous

        You’re wrong…FGC doesn’t need MLG at all, if anything they only value the monetary incentive but as I said in prior post, that money will come. FGC has brilliant minds and one day they will collaborate figure out how to retain its profitability without undermining its culture. 

        Maybe one day I will partake in that vision or you or anyone else in this forum thread. My biggest fear, however, is I don’t want the smaller venues and streamers to be filtered out the equation. Everyone should have a chance to be the next Justin Wong as a player or the next Ultradavid as a commentator. Once corporations get into the mix those windows will be selective and hence alienate potential players and kill off smaller streamers. 

        The community has gotten as far as it did because everyone is working together…money does changes things especially the greed of it…and I don’t want profit centric mindsets ruin the community. However, it should be sufficient to keep this thing going and sustaining but not to the point of destroying the culture.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alex-Pizzle/675185107 Alex Pizzle

        Theyd rather have some fat pimply white kid im guessing?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alex-Pizzle/675185107 Alex Pizzle

        Theyd rather have some fat pimply white kid im guessing?

  • Anonymous

    nicely dissected. i’m totally glad you brought up the socioeconomic differences too, which is something i totally agree with. the truth is, there isn’t a lot of money to go around in general with how this country is right now and for advertisers to try and put a risk in the fighting game community – which just doesn’t have a lot of money in it at the moment – isn’t in their best interest.

    the whole argument that blizzard is a major reason for the financial success involved with sc2 professional playing can’t be said enough.

    lastly, i have been involved with several small businesses and the one that has seen the most success – the owner was doing her thing and the business saw steady growth every year and instead of trying to cater to others she just kept doing what she was doing and now is a huge success with people banging down her doors. i’m not saying that sometimes you don’t have to adapt or if you do your thing you will always be successful, but if there is a proven steady growth in what you’re doing then people will eventually have to accept you. not because you made them but because your appeal is undeniable and it’s obviously filling a gap or a niche people are looking for. so just keep doing your thing, keep it real and fuck corporate sponsors that what to do things on their terms.

  • Anonymous

    nicely dissected. i’m totally glad you brought up the socioeconomic differences too, which is something i totally agree with. the truth is, there isn’t a lot of money to go around in general with how this country is right now and for advertisers to try and put a risk in the fighting game community – which just doesn’t have a lot of money in it at the moment – isn’t in their best interest.

    the whole argument that blizzard is a major reason for the financial success involved with sc2 professional playing can’t be said enough.

    lastly, i have been involved with several small businesses and the one that has seen the most success – the owner was doing her thing and the business saw steady growth every year and instead of trying to cater to others she just kept doing what she was doing and now is a huge success with people banging down her doors. i’m not saying that sometimes you don’t have to adapt or if you do your thing you will always be successful, but if there is a proven steady growth in what you’re doing then people will eventually have to accept you. not because you made them but because your appeal is undeniable and it’s obviously filling a gap or a niche people are looking for. so just keep doing your thing, keep it real and fuck corporate sponsors that what to do things on their terms.

  • http://twitter.com/Shin_Hogosha Michael Connolly

    This (and Bar Fights last night and SRK’s GPHP invitationals) got me thinking.  As much as I love playing in, watching, and running open tournaments I do think the FGC needs SOME invitationals, if for nothing else than viewing/streaming enjoyment and possibly sponsor-bucks.  Think of it this way: would you turn on a football game if, more likely than not, it was going to be some private college team versus a high school team?  How about basketball if the best you’d be able to watch before the finals was probably the Knicks destroy five guys who enjoy a pick-up game every other weekend?  Would you watch the Olympics if they let, quite literally, anyone with money and a number on their back enter the events?  Probably not, and at most you’d wait until the last few events of whatever season/tournament/circuit to watch.  Sponsors don’t like that.

    Now, this is a BIT of an exaggeration, and we all know it takes a certain animal to attend most tournaments (and the stream runners do a decent job of putting talent on the big screen, even at larger events), so what we see on stream probably won’t be a couple of random scrubs mashing buttons.  But a lot of times you’ll see a low-level player (i.e. me on some days) beating someone even worse (i.e. me the other days), and people don’t tune in to watch people at their level or worse dropping combos or getting beat by the most basic of basics.  They tune in to watch high-level play and hear professional-yet-hype commentary.

    I don’t want EVERY event to be some 8-man invitational.  I don’t want EVERY major to require a certain amount of wins under your belt.  But a once-or-twice-a-year sponsored double-elim event with 64 of the best in each major game?  I’d pay money or sit through sickeningly large amounts of advertisements for that just as I bought the Evo DVDs I have sitting in the other room, and I’m sure I’m not alone.

  • http://twitter.com/Shin_Hogosha Michael Connolly

    This (and Bar Fights last night and SRK’s GPHP invitationals) got me thinking.  As much as I love playing in, watching, and running open tournaments I do think the FGC needs SOME invitationals, if for nothing else than viewing/streaming enjoyment and possibly sponsor-bucks.  Think of it this way: would you turn on a football game if, more likely than not, it was going to be some private college team versus a high school team?  How about basketball if the best you’d be able to watch before the finals was probably the Knicks destroy five guys who enjoy a pick-up game every other weekend?  Would you watch the Olympics if they let, quite literally, anyone with money and a number on their back enter the events?  Probably not, and at most you’d wait until the last few events of whatever season/tournament/circuit to watch.  Sponsors don’t like that.

    Now, this is a BIT of an exaggeration, and we all know it takes a certain animal to attend most tournaments (and the stream runners do a decent job of putting talent on the big screen, even at larger events), so what we see on stream probably won’t be a couple of random scrubs mashing buttons.  But a lot of times you’ll see a low-level player (i.e. me on some days) beating someone even worse (i.e. me the other days), and people don’t tune in to watch people at their level or worse dropping combos or getting beat by the most basic of basics.  They tune in to watch high-level play and hear professional-yet-hype commentary.

    I don’t want EVERY event to be some 8-man invitational.  I don’t want EVERY major to require a certain amount of wins under your belt.  But a once-or-twice-a-year sponsored double-elim event with 64 of the best in each major game?  I’d pay money or sit through sickeningly large amounts of advertisements for that just as I bought the Evo DVDs I have sitting in the other room, and I’m sure I’m not alone.

  • http://twitter.com/Shin_Hogosha Michael Connolly

    This (and Bar Fights last night and SRK’s GPHP invitationals) got me thinking.  As much as I love playing in, watching, and running open tournaments I do think the FGC needs SOME invitationals, if for nothing else than viewing/streaming enjoyment and possibly sponsor-bucks.  Think of it this way: would you turn on a football game if, more likely than not, it was going to be some private college team versus a high school team?  How about basketball if the best you’d be able to watch before the finals was probably the Knicks destroy five guys who enjoy a pick-up game every other weekend?  Would you watch the Olympics if they let, quite literally, anyone with money and a number on their back enter the events?  Probably not, and at most you’d wait until the last few events of whatever season/tournament/circuit to watch.  Sponsors don’t like that.

    Now, this is a BIT of an exaggeration, and we all know it takes a certain animal to attend most tournaments (and the stream runners do a decent job of putting talent on the big screen, even at larger events), so what we see on stream probably won’t be a couple of random scrubs mashing buttons.  But a lot of times you’ll see a low-level player (i.e. me on some days) beating someone even worse (i.e. me the other days), and people don’t tune in to watch people at their level or worse dropping combos or getting beat by the most basic of basics.  They tune in to watch high-level play and hear professional-yet-hype commentary.

    I don’t want EVERY event to be some 8-man invitational.  I don’t want EVERY major to require a certain amount of wins under your belt.  But a once-or-twice-a-year sponsored double-elim event with 64 of the best in each major game?  I’d pay money or sit through sickeningly large amounts of advertisements for that just as I bought the Evo DVDs I have sitting in the other room, and I’m sure I’m not alone.

  • http://twitter.com/Shin_Hogosha Michael Connolly

    This (and Bar Fights last night and SRK’s GPHP invitationals) got me thinking.  As much as I love playing in, watching, and running open tournaments I do think the FGC needs SOME invitationals, if for nothing else than viewing/streaming enjoyment and possibly sponsor-bucks.  Think of it this way: would you turn on a football game if, more likely than not, it was going to be some private college team versus a high school team?  How about basketball if the best you’d be able to watch before the finals was probably the Knicks destroy five guys who enjoy a pick-up game every other weekend?  Would you watch the Olympics if they let, quite literally, anyone with money and a number on their back enter the events?  Probably not, and at most you’d wait until the last few events of whatever season/tournament/circuit to watch.  Sponsors don’t like that.

    Now, this is a BIT of an exaggeration, and we all know it takes a certain animal to attend most tournaments (and the stream runners do a decent job of putting talent on the big screen, even at larger events), so what we see on stream probably won’t be a couple of random scrubs mashing buttons.  But a lot of times you’ll see a low-level player (i.e. me on some days) beating someone even worse (i.e. me the other days), and people don’t tune in to watch people at their level or worse dropping combos or getting beat by the most basic of basics.  They tune in to watch high-level play and hear professional-yet-hype commentary.

    I don’t want EVERY event to be some 8-man invitational.  I don’t want EVERY major to require a certain amount of wins under your belt.  But a once-or-twice-a-year sponsored double-elim event with 64 of the best in each major game?  I’d pay money or sit through sickeningly large amounts of advertisements for that just as I bought the Evo DVDs I have sitting in the other room, and I’m sure I’m not alone.

  • http://twitter.com/Shin_Hogosha Michael Connolly

    This (and Bar Fights last night and SRK’s GPHP invitationals) got me thinking.  As much as I love playing in, watching, and running open tournaments I do think the FGC needs SOME invitationals, if for nothing else than viewing/streaming enjoyment and possibly sponsor-bucks.  Think of it this way: would you turn on a football game if, more likely than not, it was going to be some private college team versus a high school team?  How about basketball if the best you’d be able to watch before the finals was probably the Knicks destroy five guys who enjoy a pick-up game every other weekend?  Would you watch the Olympics if they let, quite literally, anyone with money and a number on their back enter the events?  Probably not, and at most you’d wait until the last few events of whatever season/tournament/circuit to watch.  Sponsors don’t like that.

    Now, this is a BIT of an exaggeration, and we all know it takes a certain animal to attend most tournaments (and the stream runners do a decent job of putting talent on the big screen, even at larger events), so what we see on stream probably won’t be a couple of random scrubs mashing buttons.  But a lot of times you’ll see a low-level player (i.e. me on some days) beating someone even worse (i.e. me the other days), and people don’t tune in to watch people at their level or worse dropping combos or getting beat by the most basic of basics.  They tune in to watch high-level play and hear professional-yet-hype commentary.

    I don’t want EVERY event to be some 8-man invitational.  I don’t want EVERY major to require a certain amount of wins under your belt.  But a once-or-twice-a-year sponsored double-elim event with 64 of the best in each major game?  I’d pay money or sit through sickeningly large amounts of advertisements for that just as I bought the Evo DVDs I have sitting in the other room, and I’m sure I’m not alone.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brian-McAlister/100001501270453 Brian McAlister

    There are a bunch great facts in this article to back up/disprove a lot of the arguments that have been going on with this subject as of late.  Thanks again UltraDavid! 

    I do feel that one of the points in this article needs to be reiterated: We don’t have to become part of the ‘esports’ community yet, if at all.  We are already growing everyday and there is no reason that we can’t become big like the SC2 community on our own.  It is just a matter of time and effort on our part to achieve that if we desire it.  If we eventually keep growing on our own that will only increase our value to the corporate sponsors & leagues giving us more leverage in getting what we want out of the deal (which really is what this debate has been all about).  If we decide to ‘sell out’ now they may just take what they want from the FGC (the games, the commentary, the fan base, additional sponsorship) and leave out everything that may prove too risky for their sponsors (colorful commentary, open tournaments, recognition of smaller events).  However if we can build up the FGC brand and make it inseparable from competitive fighting gaming we have a better chance of making out better in the deal.  However either way we will have to comprise and most likely give up some of what we value about the FGC in order to get paid.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brian-McAlister/100001501270453 Brian McAlister

    There are a bunch great facts in this article to back up/disprove a lot of the arguments that have been going on with this subject as of late.  Thanks again UltraDavid! 

    I do feel that one of the points in this article needs to be reiterated: We don’t have to become part of the ‘esports’ community yet, if at all.  We are already growing everyday and there is no reason that we can’t become big like the SC2 community on our own.  It is just a matter of time and effort on our part to achieve that if we desire it.  If we eventually keep growing on our own that will only increase our value to the corporate sponsors & leagues giving us more leverage in getting what we want out of the deal (which really is what this debate has been all about).  If we decide to ‘sell out’ now they may just take what they want from the FGC (the games, the commentary, the fan base, additional sponsorship) and leave out everything that may prove too risky for their sponsors (colorful commentary, open tournaments, recognition of smaller events).  However if we can build up the FGC brand and make it inseparable from competitive fighting gaming we have a better chance of making out better in the deal.  However either way we will have to comprise and most likely give up some of what we value about the FGC in order to get paid.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brian-McAlister/100001501270453 Brian McAlister

    There are a bunch great facts in this article to back up/disprove a lot of the arguments that have been going on with this subject as of late.  Thanks again UltraDavid! 

    I do feel that one of the points in this article needs to be reiterated: We don’t have to become part of the ‘esports’ community yet, if at all.  We are already growing everyday and there is no reason that we can’t become big like the SC2 community on our own.  It is just a matter of time and effort on our part to achieve that if we desire it.  If we eventually keep growing on our own that will only increase our value to the corporate sponsors & leagues giving us more leverage in getting what we want out of the deal (which really is what this debate has been all about).  If we decide to ‘sell out’ now they may just take what they want from the FGC (the games, the commentary, the fan base, additional sponsorship) and leave out everything that may prove too risky for their sponsors (colorful commentary, open tournaments, recognition of smaller events).  However if we can build up the FGC brand and make it inseparable from competitive fighting gaming we have a better chance of making out better in the deal.  However either way we will have to comprise and most likely give up some of what we value about the FGC in order to get paid.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brian-McAlister/100001501270453 Brian McAlister

    There are a bunch great facts in this article to back up/disprove a lot of the arguments that have been going on with this subject as of late.  Thanks again UltraDavid! 

    I do feel that one of the points in this article needs to be reiterated: We don’t have to become part of the ‘esports’ community yet, if at all.  We are already growing everyday and there is no reason that we can’t become big like the SC2 community on our own.  It is just a matter of time and effort on our part to achieve that if we desire it.  If we eventually keep growing on our own that will only increase our value to the corporate sponsors & leagues giving us more leverage in getting what we want out of the deal (which really is what this debate has been all about).  If we decide to ‘sell out’ now they may just take what they want from the FGC (the games, the commentary, the fan base, additional sponsorship) and leave out everything that may prove too risky for their sponsors (colorful commentary, open tournaments, recognition of smaller events).  However if we can build up the FGC brand and make it inseparable from competitive fighting gaming we have a better chance of making out better in the deal.  However either way we will have to comprise and most likely give up some of what we value about the FGC in order to get paid.

  • http://www.facebook.com/shanaa.m Shanaa Modchalingam

    I appreciate your thoughts, watched the ESFI interview just before this as well. But I believe youre basing what Starcraft is on NASL, which was considered to be a failed event (really hardcore fail too) crowd wise. Try going to GSL, Dreamhack, or MLG and Im sure your opinions on crowds and player seclusion will differ. (Yes it is still not as ideal as FGC, but it is magnitudes different).

    For anyone wondering what starcraft can be like: This is not even at the place it was played, a live showing in Montreal Canada of two MLG’s ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs0XtStMSyQ

    What eats at me is people read this who do not know starcraft and take it for the truth (like the Golf/football comment). Maybe Im just saying that cause im a sportsfan that doesnt like golf but love the shit out of starcraft scene since the broodwar days.

  • http://www.facebook.com/shanaa.m Shanaa Modchalingam

    I appreciate your thoughts, watched the ESFI interview just before this as well. But I believe youre basing what Starcraft is on NASL, which was considered to be a failed event (really hardcore fail too) crowd wise. Try going to GSL, Dreamhack, or MLG and Im sure your opinions on crowds and player seclusion will differ. (Yes it is still not as ideal as FGC, but it is magnitudes different).

    For anyone wondering what starcraft can be like: This is not even at the place it was played, a live showing in Montreal Canada of two MLG’s ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs0XtStMSyQ

    What eats at me is people read this who do not know starcraft and take it for the truth (like the Golf/football comment). Maybe Im just saying that cause im a sportsfan that doesnt like golf but love the shit out of starcraft scene since the broodwar days.

  • Anonymous

    Whether or not the FGC joins with other larger gaming communities. I think that Capcom needs it to happen more so than the FGC. Things have not been going well for them lately.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=9697:JP

    Their stock peaked leading up to the release of Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, but it then took a nose dive due to lackluster sales and has since not gotten back to it’s pre-UMvC3 value.

  • Anonymous

    Whether or not the FGC joins with other larger gaming communities. I think that Capcom needs it to happen more so than the FGC. Things have not been going well for them lately.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=9697:JP

    Their stock peaked leading up to the release of Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, but it then took a nose dive due to lackluster sales and has since not gotten back to it’s pre-UMvC3 value.

  • Anonymous

    Whether or not the FGC joins with other larger gaming communities. I think that Capcom needs it to happen more so than the FGC. Things have not been going well for them lately.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=9697:JP

    Their stock peaked leading up to the release of Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, but it then took a nose dive due to lackluster sales and has since not gotten back to it’s pre-UMvC3 value.

  • Anonymous

    Whether or not the FGC joins with other larger gaming communities. I think that Capcom needs it to happen more so than the FGC. Things have not been going well for them lately.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=9697:JP

    Their stock peaked leading up to the release of Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, but it then took a nose dive due to lackluster sales and has since not gotten back to it’s pre-UMvC3 value.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nathan-Shields/100000125882480 Nathan Shields

    Bravo, David. Your posts always brighten up my day.

  • http://twitter.com/LionsfanSam Sam Gordon

    Great read! Really helped me understand the scenes a lot more and it is obvious they are where they are because there are such passionate and dedicated people! GG

  • http://twitter.com/otterxevo eh

    Good article except for the constant, awkward, out of place comments about how the writer is a lawyer. It’s really insulting how people are flagging this guy as the FGC’s token successful guy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Khoa-Le/1717568395 Khoa Le

    The truth of the matter is, none of the current fighting games can match SCII’s status in glory and popularity right now, and frankly, I don’t think a fighting game will ever get to this point.  They may get much more popular, but it’s just the structure and the way the game operates.  SCII, though an RTS game, was meant to be a spectating game as well.

    Despite the good points of why SCII is glorified and why fighting games aren’t, I really believe those points, once you get to the root of things, don’t matter.  SCII started from the ground up, like any other game, but the game itself, the mechanics, and the appeal (story, characters, units, flashy effects, etc.) just makes for a much more entertaining game to watch/play.  Add this to the depth in strategies, tactics, and talent pool (yes, I know fighting games have these too, but come on, not to this extent, it’s just the nature of the game), and you have yourself purebred for made for, the very word you hate, “e-Sports”.

    I too, used to despise this word but in the end, it is what it is. Just like football is soccer everywhere else, it’s certainly not here in the U.S. Right now, the way things are, e-Sports is the culmination of all competitive video game, to me, this includes, as it should, the FGC. And right now, SCII is most definitely leading this revolution.

    • era022001

      SC2 didnt start from ground up.
      SC2 is/was building on the hype it got from Starcraft 1.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Khoa-Le/1717568395 Khoa Le

    The truth of the matter is, none of the current fighting games can match SCII’s status in glory and popularity right now, and frankly, I don’t think a fighting game will ever get to this point.  They may get much more popular, but it’s just the structure and the way the game operates.  SCII, though an RTS game, was meant to be a spectating game as well.

    Despite the good points of why SCII is glorified and why fighting games aren’t, I really believe those points, once you get to the root of things, don’t matter.  SCII started from the ground up, like any other game, but the game itself, the mechanics, and the appeal (story, characters, units, flashy effects, etc.) just makes for a much more entertaining game to watch/play.  Add this to the depth in strategies, tactics, and talent pool (yes, I know fighting games have these too, but come on, not to this extent, it’s just the nature of the game), and you have yourself purebred for made for, the very word you hate, “e-Sports”.

    I too, used to despise this word but in the end, it is what it is. Just like football is soccer everywhere else, it’s certainly not here in the U.S. Right now, the way things are, e-Sports is the culmination of all competitive video game, to me, this includes, as it should, the FGC. And right now, SCII is most definitely leading this revolution.

  • Anonymous

    I just finished the entire post. Epic stuff, seriously. I pasted it into word and it’s about 19 pages! And here I am complaining over my 4-page final due in in two days. -_- The content in here is just amazing. I had no idea that the Starcraft community was that huge! I don’t mind our community though. I kinda like the tight-knit atmosphere we have going on. I’m probably gonna reread this thing again a couple times over this week. Way too much info to just read it once. I don’t even have a centralized thing to say in this post cause I’m just so overwhelmed with comments haha. Thanks for the post good sir. Truly awesome stuff.

  • Anonymous

    I just finished the entire post. Epic stuff, seriously. I pasted it into word and it’s about 19 pages! And here I am complaining over my 4-page final due in in two days. -_- The content in here is just amazing. I had no idea that the Starcraft community was that huge! I don’t mind our community though. I kinda like the tight-knit atmosphere we have going on. I’m probably gonna reread this thing again a couple times over this week. Way too much info to just read it once. I don’t even have a centralized thing to say in this post cause I’m just so overwhelmed with comments haha. Thanks for the post good sir. Truly awesome stuff.

  • http://twitter.com/Zeroes_SC Brandon

    Buying a PC to run sc2 is about $500 but xbox and xbox live costs more since there is a new fighting game very often. SC2 you buy once since the expansions is for the single player.

    Also the utility that comes with PC like the free internet content (or pirated) makes PC much more useful than a xbox.

  • http://twitter.com/Zeroes_SC Brandon

    Buying a PC to run sc2 is about $500 but xbox and xbox live costs more since there is a new fighting game very often. SC2 you buy once since the expansions is for the single player.

    Also the utility that comes with PC like the free internet content (or pirated) makes PC much more useful than a xbox.

  • http://twitter.com/Zeroes_SC Brandon

    Buying a PC to run sc2 is about $500 but xbox and xbox live costs more since there is a new fighting game very often. SC2 you buy once since the expansions is for the single player.

    Also the utility that comes with PC like the free internet content (or pirated) makes PC much more useful than a xbox.

  • Jay Bailey

    I read this after I got linked to it from Team Liquid, a StarCraft site. A lot of us at TL complain that eSports doesn’t have enough recognition, that it should be bigger…but looking at this article makes me think otherwise. We envy the physical sports and what they have, and I never thought WE as a community could be envied for what WE have in terms of viewers and sponsorship. Really makes you think.

    • jesus marin

      I don’t really envy esports at all, no offense but their streams bore me.
      FGC streams are fun because even if you don’t really play the game you can feel the hype and enjoy the commentary.

    • jesus marin

      I don’t really envy esports at all, no offense but their streams bore me.
      FGC streams are fun because even if you don’t really play the game you can feel the hype and enjoy the commentary.

    • jesus marin

      I don’t really envy esports at all, no offense but their streams bore me.
      FGC streams are fun because even if you don’t really play the game you can feel the hype and enjoy the commentary.

  • Anonymous

    As someone who’s watched a few FGC streams (Mostly BlazBlue, since GG has been basically dead after BB came out, but it’s impossible to avoid SF anywhere in the FGC), I’ve gotta say I love the atmosphere, the whole feeling of the community, and I definitely feel like you guys deserve so much more than you have. 

  • http://twitter.com/BobEchy Robert W Echternach

    Incredible, Incredible article. This has literally been a joy to read in full. You have hit SO many terrific points. Have brought total clarity and highlighted man thoughts. It’s phenomenal to have someone that seems very well spoken and understanding of a situation to have spoken so well about a challenging topic.

  • Anonymous

    As someone who’s watched a few fighting game videos/streams, and has had some interest in learning to play GuiltyGear (of course, that happened right before BB came out, lol), I’ve gotta say that I love the atmosphere of the FGC. I like what you guys are doing, and I definitely feel like the FGC deserves more than they have right now.

    I really hope that things turn out good for you guys, that you can maybe worth with esports and hey, maybe esports will find a way to help you grow without feeling like you’re selling out. I really hope that happens in the near future because I like what I see now, and I can only imagine how awesome things could be if the production quality, the event turnouts, and the money were brought more in line with what they deserve to be.

    Keep on kicking ass, and maybe sometime in the near future things will work out for the benefit of everyone.

  • Anonymous

    Definitely a good read, Ultradavid really points out differences between FGC and pretty much the whole of eSports.
    Now I’m talking as an outsider about the FGC of US coming from a country like Finland with fairly small gaming scene. (In short big country, low population, no arcade history at all, focus on LAN parties)
    I think what you have created as a gaming community is astounding, whole different style and I really really like that about it. This really feels like a community with it’s small local scenes and until recently their streams, offline-play, open tournaments, friendly banter, little separation between pro players, tournament organizers, commentators and crowd. Drama and upsets bringing hype, entertaining or knowledgeable commentary, lively crowd, side-bets, casual-feel pro players are what this is all about.
    And on the business side of things I’m a young adult who has bought arcade sticks, more fighting games, is interested in stuff like what CC has been putting out (HQ matches, with player commentary and inside look at the event), willing to support streaming with donations, would have probably bought merchandise like t-shirts etc if overseas postage wouldn’t cost so much. Also companies could sponsor and advertise on events like to any other focus group.
    Capcom Japan’s reluctance to invest into growing their games really ticks me, do they really not think possibilities outside of selling their games to us. (Maybe release some new games specifically targeted for us, unlike what they are doing with SFxT?)

    I really think FGC really has it’s own path separate from the eSports model and this is just because of how it started and how it has grown to this day. We don’t need the big leagues as much as they need us.

  • Anonymous

    Definitely a good read, Ultradavid really points out differences between FGC and pretty much the whole of eSports.
    Now I’m talking as an outsider about the FGC of US coming from a country like Finland with fairly small gaming scene. (In short big country, low population, no arcade history at all, focus on LAN parties)
    I think what you have created as a gaming community is astounding, whole different style and I really really like that about it. This really feels like a community with it’s small local scenes and until recently their streams, offline-play, open tournaments, friendly banter, little separation between pro players, tournament organizers, commentators and crowd. Drama and upsets bringing hype, entertaining or knowledgeable commentary, lively crowd, side-bets, casual-feel pro players are what this is all about.
    And on the business side of things I’m a young adult who has bought arcade sticks, more fighting games, is interested in stuff like what CC has been putting out (HQ matches, with player commentary and inside look at the event), willing to support streaming with donations, would have probably bought merchandise like t-shirts etc if overseas postage wouldn’t cost so much. Also companies could sponsor and advertise on events like to any other focus group.
    Capcom Japan’s reluctance to invest into growing their games really ticks me, do they really not think possibilities outside of selling their games to us. (Maybe release some new games specifically targeted for us, unlike what they are doing with SFxT?)

    I really think FGC really has it’s own path separate from the eSports model and this is just because of how it started and how it has grown to this day. We don’t need the big leagues as much as they need us.

  • http://twitter.com/Dectilon Peter Burman

    I didn’t watch it myself, but from what I understand NASL was especially un-hype for most of it. Maybe you would’ve had a more positive experience going to MLG Providence.

    I’d say the schism between various fighting games exist for RTS too. For example, a lot of people who played brood war consider Warcraft 3 to be a joke of a game, and predicted that any player who transitioned from wc3 to sc2 would get stomped free by any former brood war player. 
    As for the MOBA-community, you’ll have to look long and hard to find a community more hostile than them. And traditionally RTS fans and FPS fans don’t get along. Basically, I don’t think fighting games are special in that regard.

    I think the sad truth is that the organizations that are currently trying to grow the idea of video game competitions as legitimate spectator sports can’t afford to take on the less-than-PC FGC right now. They’ll offer the terms of ‘keep it clean or keep out’. I agree that the FGC can grow itself for now, and not worry about where other communities are going.

  • http://twitter.com/Dectilon Peter Burman

    I didn’t watch it myself, but from what I understand NASL was especially un-hype for most of it. Maybe you would’ve had a more positive experience going to MLG Providence.

    I’d say the schism between various fighting games exist for RTS too. For example, a lot of people who played brood war consider Warcraft 3 to be a joke of a game, and predicted that any player who transitioned from wc3 to sc2 would get stomped free by any former brood war player. 
    As for the MOBA-community, you’ll have to look long and hard to find a community more hostile than them. And traditionally RTS fans and FPS fans don’t get along. Basically, I don’t think fighting games are special in that regard.

    I think the sad truth is that the organizations that are currently trying to grow the idea of video game competitions as legitimate spectator sports can’t afford to take on the less-than-PC FGC right now. They’ll offer the terms of ‘keep it clean or keep out’. I agree that the FGC can grow itself for now, and not worry about where other communities are going.

  • http://twitter.com/Dectilon Peter Burman

    I didn’t watch it myself, but from what I understand NASL was especially un-hype for most of it. Maybe you would’ve had a more positive experience going to MLG Providence.

    I’d say the schism between various fighting games exist for RTS too. For example, a lot of people who played brood war consider Warcraft 3 to be a joke of a game, and predicted that any player who transitioned from wc3 to sc2 would get stomped free by any former brood war player. 
    As for the MOBA-community, you’ll have to look long and hard to find a community more hostile than them. And traditionally RTS fans and FPS fans don’t get along. Basically, I don’t think fighting games are special in that regard.

    I think the sad truth is that the organizations that are currently trying to grow the idea of video game competitions as legitimate spectator sports can’t afford to take on the less-than-PC FGC right now. They’ll offer the terms of ‘keep it clean or keep out’. I agree that the FGC can grow itself for now, and not worry about where other communities are going.

  • http://twitter.com/poke133 poke

    SC2 has some jokers as well. here’s oGsMC after winning against MVP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvVAa5SV8b0

    (not that i disagree with the article.. very well written)

  • http://twitter.com/poke133 poke

    SC2 has some jokers as well. here’s oGsMC after winning against MVP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvVAa5SV8b0

    (not that i disagree with the article.. very well written)

  • http://twitter.com/poke133 poke

    SC2 has some jokers as well. here’s oGsMC after winning against MVP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvVAa5SV8b0

    (not that i disagree with the article.. very well written)

  • http://twitter.com/poke133 poke

    SC2 has some jokers as well. here’s oGsMC after winning against MVP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvVAa5SV8b0

    (not that i disagree with the article.. very well written)

  • http://twitter.com/poke133 poke

    SC2 has some jokers as well. here’s oGsMC after winning against MVP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvVAa5SV8b0

    (not that i disagree with the article.. very well written)

  • http://twitter.com/poke133 poke

    SC2 has some jokers as well. here’s oGsMC after winning against MVP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvVAa5SV8b0

    (not that i disagree with the article.. very well written)

  • http://twitter.com/poke133 poke

    SC2 has some jokers as well. here’s oGsMC after winning against MVP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvVAa5SV8b0

    (not that i disagree with the article.. very well written)

  • http://twitter.com/poke133 poke

    SC2 has some jokers as well. here’s oGsMC after winning against MVP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvVAa5SV8b0

    (not that i disagree with the article.. very well written)

  • http://twitter.com/poke133 poke

    SC2 has some jokers as well. here’s oGsMC after winning against MVP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvVAa5SV8b0

    (not that i disagree with the article.. very well written)

  • http://twitter.com/poke133 poke

    SC2 has some jokers as well. here’s oGsMC after winning against MVP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvVAa5SV8b0

    (not that i disagree with the article.. very well written)

  • http://twitter.com/poke133 poke

    SC2 has some jokers as well. here’s oGsMC after winning against MVP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvVAa5SV8b0

    (not that i disagree with the article.. very well written)

  • http://www.facebook.com/JayBeJay James Joseph

    God damn ultradavid dropping that knowledge since day fucking 1.  I actually spent an hour reading the whole thing and was very inciteful and definately think it pointed out quite alot of the differences between the two communities and how they grew up to be what they are.

    I think that we could get big to where “esports” are  even on our own without their help, it will just take a while but we are growing very quickly since 09 when sf4 came out.  FG’s have increased rapidly and there seems to be a game to fit everybody’s needs.  I think we can definately thank Capcom for bringing back the FG scene to new hights cause of SF4 even if people don’t like them they can at least admit that.

    I would like to see Capcom take the opportunity to invest in the FGC by making tourney’s, prizes keeping the hype and helping tournaments with games and more.  Infact not just capcom but any FG company that has revenue do this.  It’s not like it would be bad for them, they’d see the money come back by people buying their games, merchandise having more people like their games and want to play them it makes sense to do it.  Unfortunately…not all FG Companys like to make sense..

  • http://www.facebook.com/JayBeJay James Joseph

    God damn ultradavid dropping that knowledge since day fucking 1.  I actually spent an hour reading the whole thing and was very inciteful and definately think it pointed out quite alot of the differences between the two communities and how they grew up to be what they are.

    I think that we could get big to where “esports” are  even on our own without their help, it will just take a while but we are growing very quickly since 09 when sf4 came out.  FG’s have increased rapidly and there seems to be a game to fit everybody’s needs.  I think we can definately thank Capcom for bringing back the FG scene to new hights cause of SF4 even if people don’t like them they can at least admit that.

    I would like to see Capcom take the opportunity to invest in the FGC by making tourney’s, prizes keeping the hype and helping tournaments with games and more.  Infact not just capcom but any FG company that has revenue do this.  It’s not like it would be bad for them, they’d see the money come back by people buying their games, merchandise having more people like their games and want to play them it makes sense to do it.  Unfortunately…not all FG Companys like to make sense..

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Walter-Thomas/100000923690574 Walter Thomas

    Just linked Davids article and website on the nerdist podcast “Indoor Kids” in hopes he can be a guest and speak on this issue at length. I should of mentioned James Chen too.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Walter-Thomas/100000923690574 Walter Thomas

    Just linked Davids article and website on the nerdist podcast “Indoor Kids” in hopes he can be a guest and speak on this issue at length. I should of mentioned James Chen too.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Walter-Thomas/100000923690574 Walter Thomas

    Just linked Davids article and website on the nerdist podcast “Indoor Kids” in hopes he can be a guest and speak on this issue at length. I should of mentioned James Chen too.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Walter-Thomas/100000923690574 Walter Thomas

    Just linked Davids article and website on the nerdist podcast “Indoor Kids” in hopes he can be a guest and speak on this issue at length. I should of mentioned James Chen too.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Walter-Thomas/100000923690574 Walter Thomas

    Just linked Davids article and website on the nerdist podcast “Indoor Kids” in hopes he can be a guest and speak on this issue at length. I should of mentioned James Chen too.

  • http://twitter.com/LordProsper Johnathen Blevins

    That was a damn good read. Kudos to you, UltraDavid.

  • http://twitter.com/LordProsper Johnathen Blevins

    That was a damn good read. Kudos to you, UltraDavid.

  • http://twitter.com/LordProsper Johnathen Blevins

    That was a damn good read. Kudos to you, UltraDavid.

  • http://twitter.com/roaldvanbuuren Roald Van Buuren

    E-sports = competitive gaming. FGC is not competitive gaming?

  • http://twitter.com/roaldvanbuuren Roald Van Buuren

    E-sports = competitive gaming. FGC is not competitive gaming?

  • Anonymous

    UltraDavid I want to have your adopted babies.

  • Anonymous

    This is a great read!  This is one of the more popular General forum topics at the moment on teamliquid.net, the main (english language) community page for SC.  If you’re interested in reactions from TLers, visit:  
    http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294212Its kind of a shame that UltraDavid made such a good case for keeping the FGC separate from the PC esports crowd… he’s exactly the kind of thoughtful, articulate leader/personality that we’d love to have more of in the esports (and especially SC) world. GL to you all in growing your scene your way.One of the things that UltraDavid might not be aware of is the insecurity behind the SC2 community’s push for rapid growth.  We almost feel like it NEEDS to be huge or else people will not want to figure out what makes such a difficult game great.  We might indeed have become spoiled by the money and professionalism, and now we wonder what would happen if all that support got turned off.  Brood War outside of Korea had its long winter too, and no one wants to go back there.If we seem too pushy about needing to merge with the FGC and grow FAST, its because we feel like we need to seize our chance for a mass-market breakthrough to keep our scene vibrant (and professional).  Perhaps in a while we’ll have more of the self-confidence that kept the FGC alive for so long, but for now we still feel the need to push the boundaries of professional gaming just to prove that we can.

  • Anonymous

    This is a great read!  This is one of the more popular General forum topics at the moment on teamliquid.net, the main (english language) community page for SC.  If you’re interested in reactions from TLers, visit:  
    http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294212Its kind of a shame that UltraDavid made such a good case for keeping the FGC separate from the PC esports crowd… he’s exactly the kind of thoughtful, articulate leader/personality that we’d love to have more of in the esports (and especially SC) world. GL to you all in growing your scene your way.One of the things that UltraDavid might not be aware of is the insecurity behind the SC2 community’s push for rapid growth.  We almost feel like it NEEDS to be huge or else people will not want to figure out what makes such a difficult game great.  We might indeed have become spoiled by the money and professionalism, and now we wonder what would happen if all that support got turned off.  Brood War outside of Korea had its long winter too, and no one wants to go back there.If we seem too pushy about needing to merge with the FGC and grow FAST, its because we feel like we need to seize our chance for a mass-market breakthrough to keep our scene vibrant (and professional).  Perhaps in a while we’ll have more of the self-confidence that kept the FGC alive for so long, but for now we still feel the need to push the boundaries of professional gaming just to prove that we can.

  • Anonymous

    This is a great read!  This is one of the more popular General forum topics at the moment on teamliquid.net, the main (english language) community page for SC.  If you’re interested in reactions from TLers, visit:  
    http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294212Its kind of a shame that UltraDavid made such a good case for keeping the FGC separate from the PC esports crowd… he’s exactly the kind of thoughtful, articulate leader/personality that we’d love to have more of in the esports (and especially SC) world. GL to you all in growing your scene your way.One of the things that UltraDavid might not be aware of is the insecurity behind the SC2 community’s push for rapid growth.  We almost feel like it NEEDS to be huge or else people will not want to figure out what makes such a difficult game great.  We might indeed have become spoiled by the money and professionalism, and now we wonder what would happen if all that support got turned off.  Brood War outside of Korea had its long winter too, and no one wants to go back there.If we seem too pushy about needing to merge with the FGC and grow FAST, its because we feel like we need to seize our chance for a mass-market breakthrough to keep our scene vibrant (and professional).  Perhaps in a while we’ll have more of the self-confidence that kept the FGC alive for so long, but for now we still feel the need to push the boundaries of professional gaming just to prove that we can.

  • Anonymous

    This is a great read!  This is one of the more popular General forum topics at the moment on teamliquid.net, the main (english language) community page for SC.  If you’re interested in reactions from TLers, visit:  
    http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294212Its kind of a shame that UltraDavid made such a good case for keeping the FGC separate from the PC esports crowd… he’s exactly the kind of thoughtful, articulate leader/personality that we’d love to have more of in the esports (and especially SC) world. GL to you all in growing your scene your way.One of the things that UltraDavid might not be aware of is the insecurity behind the SC2 community’s push for rapid growth.  We almost feel like it NEEDS to be huge or else people will not want to figure out what makes such a difficult game great.  We might indeed have become spoiled by the money and professionalism, and now we wonder what would happen if all that support got turned off.  Brood War outside of Korea had its long winter too, and no one wants to go back there.If we seem too pushy about needing to merge with the FGC and grow FAST, its because we feel like we need to seize our chance for a mass-market breakthrough to keep our scene vibrant (and professional).  Perhaps in a while we’ll have more of the self-confidence that kept the FGC alive for so long, but for now we still feel the need to push the boundaries of professional gaming just to prove that we can.

  • Anonymous

    This is a great read!  This is one of the more popular General forum topics at the moment on teamliquid.net, the main (english language) community page for SC.  If you’re interested in reactions from TLers, visit:  
    http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294212Its kind of a shame that UltraDavid made such a good case for keeping the FGC separate from the PC esports crowd… he’s exactly the kind of thoughtful, articulate leader/personality that we’d love to have more of in the esports (and especially SC) world. GL to you all in growing your scene your way.One of the things that UltraDavid might not be aware of is the insecurity behind the SC2 community’s push for rapid growth.  We almost feel like it NEEDS to be huge or else people will not want to figure out what makes such a difficult game great.  We might indeed have become spoiled by the money and professionalism, and now we wonder what would happen if all that support got turned off.  Brood War outside of Korea had its long winter too, and no one wants to go back there.If we seem too pushy about needing to merge with the FGC and grow FAST, its because we feel like we need to seize our chance for a mass-market breakthrough to keep our scene vibrant (and professional).  Perhaps in a while we’ll have more of the self-confidence that kept the FGC alive for so long, but for now we still feel the need to push the boundaries of professional gaming just to prove that we can.

  • Anonymous

    Damn, what a good read. I didn’t expect it to be that long as I was reading it but I got really absorbed into it, made a Hot Pocket in between and knocked it all out, haha. Well worth reading completely.

  • Anonymous

    Great read!  I found this article though the thread discussing it on teamliquid.net, the main english language StarCraft community site.  It is one of our most active topics in the General forum, and if you’d like to check out the reactions of the SC community to this please visit us:   http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294212

    Its a shame that UltraDavid made such a good case for the FGC to continue along its own path.  He’s exactly the kind of articulate, thoughtful leader/personality that the wider eSports scene has relied on to expand to its current state, and we’d love to have him with us to champion professional gaming.  We wish you all the best.  As we say, GLHF!

  • Anonymous

    Great read!  I found this article though the thread discussing it on teamliquid.net, the main english language StarCraft community site.  It is one of our most active topics in the General forum, and if you’d like to check out the reactions of the SC community to this please visit us:   http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294212

    Its a shame that UltraDavid made such a good case for the FGC to continue along its own path.  He’s exactly the kind of articulate, thoughtful leader/personality that the wider eSports scene has relied on to expand to its current state, and we’d love to have him with us to champion professional gaming.  We wish you all the best.  As we say, GLHF!

  • Anonymous

    Great read!  I found this article though the thread discussing it on teamliquid.net, the main english language StarCraft community site.  It is one of our most active topics in the General forum, and if you’d like to check out the reactions of the SC community to this please visit us:   http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294212

    Its a shame that UltraDavid made such a good case for the FGC to continue along its own path.  He’s exactly the kind of articulate, thoughtful leader/personality that the wider eSports scene has relied on to expand to its current state, and we’d love to have him with us to champion professional gaming.  We wish you all the best.  As we say, GLHF!

  • Anonymous

    Agreed with the whole article.  Don’t even care that much about #esports…if the right promoters come along (i.e. hands off, no censoring, no obnoxious monetization), then, sure, that would be nice.  whatever.  As long as they don’t slap Team sp00ky with a crippling licensing law suit and replace him with G4′s Attack of the Show Presents: Fighting Gamez Tourney Presented By Patronizing Tits In A Tanktop And A Cokehead Douche Who Isn’t As Funny As He Thinks He Is Brought To You By Axe Body Spray.  I trust the powers that be in the community will not let that kind of cheapening happen.

    The thing I’m most worried about is fighting game company support.  Namely Capcom.  I can picture an anxious Seth Killian handing this article to Capcom of Japan, who just throws it under a stack of papers on its desk and says “that’s nice, read it later, maybe,”  then goes on to make SFxT a complete casual disaster.  And that’s not to say casual games are bad.  If Capcom had a choice between selling millions of copies of SFxT by making it casual versus supporting our relatively niche community, I could understand.  I just don’t want them to think they can get Call of Duty sized sales out of it, ever, because it’s never gonna be the early 90s for fighting games again. Crossing Street Fighter and Tekken in hopes of a huge sales boost is like making a super group out of unknown, but well respected, musicians and thinking they can crack the Billboard *that* way. I firmly believe their best chance at keeping this genre fresh and selling at a respectable pace for the next 10, 20, 30 years is by growing the tourney scene.  It would be great if they’d take notice and start working with players, on both technical game balancing issues and tourney organization.  The problem is that they probably just view FGC in terms of sales, view spectators and players as leeches off of that one copy of UMVC3 in the one Xbox that’s being played on in a room of 1000 people, without seeing the big picture.  But once again, they’d have to work with the FGC on the FGC terms.  

    It doesn’t seem like it’d be harder than giving Capcom USA a couple million (skim a little off the sales of the latest Monster Hunter port) to hire some staff, organize tourneys, and collect balancing information from players, which the game devs could freely respond to.  But everything I know about Japanese corporate structure goes against this ever happening.  I guess we’ll see what happens.  

    Either way, I’m pretty happy knowing the Dark Era is over and no matter how badly Capcom drops the ball with their next batch of games, we won’t return to that.  That sucked.  I don’t want to be excited about a Dead or Alive game again just because it’s the only fighter that’s gonna come out within a few year period.

  • Anonymous

    Agreed with the whole article.  Don’t even care that much about #esports…if the right promoters come along (i.e. hands off, no censoring, no obnoxious monetization), then, sure, that would be nice.  whatever.  As long as they don’t slap Team sp00ky with a crippling licensing law suit and replace him with G4′s Attack of the Show Presents: Fighting Gamez Tourney Presented By Patronizing Tits In A Tanktop And A Cokehead Douche Who Isn’t As Funny As He Thinks He Is Brought To You By Axe Body Spray.  I trust the powers that be in the community will not let that kind of cheapening happen.

    The thing I’m most worried about is fighting game company support.  Namely Capcom.  I can picture an anxious Seth Killian handing this article to Capcom of Japan, who just throws it under a stack of papers on its desk and says “that’s nice, read it later, maybe,”  then goes on to make SFxT a complete casual disaster.  And that’s not to say casual games are bad.  If Capcom had a choice between selling millions of copies of SFxT by making it casual versus supporting our relatively niche community, I could understand.  I just don’t want them to think they can get Call of Duty sized sales out of it, ever, because it’s never gonna be the early 90s for fighting games again. Crossing Street Fighter and Tekken in hopes of a huge sales boost is like making a super group out of unknown, but well respected, musicians and thinking they can crack the Billboard *that* way. I firmly believe their best chance at keeping this genre fresh and selling at a respectable pace for the next 10, 20, 30 years is by growing the tourney scene.  It would be great if they’d take notice and start working with players, on both technical game balancing issues and tourney organization.  The problem is that they probably just view FGC in terms of sales, view spectators and players as leeches off of that one copy of UMVC3 in the one Xbox that’s being played on in a room of 1000 people, without seeing the big picture.  But once again, they’d have to work with the FGC on the FGC terms.  

    It doesn’t seem like it’d be harder than giving Capcom USA a couple million (skim a little off the sales of the latest Monster Hunter port) to hire some staff, organize tourneys, and collect balancing information from players, which the game devs could freely respond to.  But everything I know about Japanese corporate structure goes against this ever happening.  I guess we’ll see what happens.  

    Either way, I’m pretty happy knowing the Dark Era is over and no matter how badly Capcom drops the ball with their next batch of games, we won’t return to that.  That sucked.  I don’t want to be excited about a Dead or Alive game again just because it’s the only fighter that’s gonna come out within a few year period.

  • Anonymous

    Agreed with the whole article.  Don’t even care that much about #esports…if the right promoters come along (i.e. hands off, no censoring, no obnoxious monetization), then, sure, that would be nice.  whatever.  As long as they don’t slap Team sp00ky with a crippling licensing law suit and replace him with G4′s Attack of the Show Presents: Fighting Gamez Tourney Presented By Patronizing Tits In A Tanktop And A Cokehead Douche Who Isn’t As Funny As He Thinks He Is Brought To You By Axe Body Spray.  I trust the powers that be in the community will not let that kind of cheapening happen.

    The thing I’m most worried about is fighting game company support.  Namely Capcom.  I can picture an anxious Seth Killian handing this article to Capcom of Japan, who just throws it under a stack of papers on its desk and says “that’s nice, read it later, maybe,”  then goes on to make SFxT a complete casual disaster.  And that’s not to say casual games are bad.  If Capcom had a choice between selling millions of copies of SFxT by making it casual versus supporting our relatively niche community, I could understand.  I just don’t want them to think they can get Call of Duty sized sales out of it, ever, because it’s never gonna be the early 90s for fighting games again. Crossing Street Fighter and Tekken in hopes of a huge sales boost is like making a super group out of unknown, but well respected, musicians and thinking they can crack the Billboard *that* way. I firmly believe their best chance at keeping this genre fresh and selling at a respectable pace for the next 10, 20, 30 years is by growing the tourney scene.  It would be great if they’d take notice and start working with players, on both technical game balancing issues and tourney organization.  The problem is that they probably just view FGC in terms of sales, view spectators and players as leeches off of that one copy of UMVC3 in the one Xbox that’s being played on in a room of 1000 people, without seeing the big picture.  But once again, they’d have to work with the FGC on the FGC terms.  

    It doesn’t seem like it’d be harder than giving Capcom USA a couple million (skim a little off the sales of the latest Monster Hunter port) to hire some staff, organize tourneys, and collect balancing information from players, which the game devs could freely respond to.  But everything I know about Japanese corporate structure goes against this ever happening.  I guess we’ll see what happens.  

    Either way, I’m pretty happy knowing the Dark Era is over and no matter how badly Capcom drops the ball with their next batch of games, we won’t return to that.  That sucked.  I don’t want to be excited about a Dead or Alive game again just because it’s the only fighter that’s gonna come out within a few year period.

  • Anonymous

    Agreed with the whole article.  Don’t even care that much about #esports…if the right promoters come along (i.e. hands off, no censoring, no obnoxious monetization), then, sure, that would be nice.  whatever.  As long as they don’t slap Team sp00ky with a crippling licensing law suit and replace him with G4′s Attack of the Show Presents: Fighting Gamez Tourney Presented By Patronizing Tits In A Tanktop And A Cokehead Douche Who Isn’t As Funny As He Thinks He Is Brought To You By Axe Body Spray.  I trust the powers that be in the community will not let that kind of cheapening happen.

    The thing I’m most worried about is fighting game company support.  Namely Capcom.  I can picture an anxious Seth Killian handing this article to Capcom of Japan, who just throws it under a stack of papers on its desk and says “that’s nice, read it later, maybe,”  then goes on to make SFxT a complete casual disaster.  And that’s not to say casual games are bad.  If Capcom had a choice between selling millions of copies of SFxT by making it casual versus supporting our relatively niche community, I could understand.  I just don’t want them to think they can get Call of Duty sized sales out of it, ever, because it’s never gonna be the early 90s for fighting games again. Crossing Street Fighter and Tekken in hopes of a huge sales boost is like making a super group out of unknown, but well respected, musicians and thinking they can crack the Billboard *that* way. I firmly believe their best chance at keeping this genre fresh and selling at a respectable pace for the next 10, 20, 30 years is by growing the tourney scene.  It would be great if they’d take notice and start working with players, on both technical game balancing issues and tourney organization.  The problem is that they probably just view FGC in terms of sales, view spectators and players as leeches off of that one copy of UMVC3 in the one Xbox that’s being played on in a room of 1000 people, without seeing the big picture.  But once again, they’d have to work with the FGC on the FGC terms.  

    It doesn’t seem like it’d be harder than giving Capcom USA a couple million (skim a little off the sales of the latest Monster Hunter port) to hire some staff, organize tourneys, and collect balancing information from players, which the game devs could freely respond to.  But everything I know about Japanese corporate structure goes against this ever happening.  I guess we’ll see what happens.  

    Either way, I’m pretty happy knowing the Dark Era is over and no matter how badly Capcom drops the ball with their next batch of games, we won’t return to that.  That sucked.  I don’t want to be excited about a Dead or Alive game again just because it’s the only fighter that’s gonna come out within a few year period.

  • Anonymous

    Agreed with the whole article.  Don’t even care that much about #esports…if the right promoters come along (i.e. hands off, no censoring, no obnoxious monetization), then, sure, that would be nice.  whatever.  As long as they don’t slap Team sp00ky with a crippling licensing law suit and replace him with G4′s Attack of the Show Presents: Fighting Gamez Tourney Presented By Patronizing Tits In A Tanktop And A Cokehead Douche Who Isn’t As Funny As He Thinks He Is Brought To You By Axe Body Spray.  I trust the powers that be in the community will not let that kind of cheapening happen.

    The thing I’m most worried about is fighting game company support.  Namely Capcom.  I can picture an anxious Seth Killian handing this article to Capcom of Japan, who just throws it under a stack of papers on its desk and says “that’s nice, read it later, maybe,”  then goes on to make SFxT a complete casual disaster.  And that’s not to say casual games are bad.  If Capcom had a choice between selling millions of copies of SFxT by making it casual versus supporting our relatively niche community, I could understand.  I just don’t want them to think they can get Call of Duty sized sales out of it, ever, because it’s never gonna be the early 90s for fighting games again. Crossing Street Fighter and Tekken in hopes of a huge sales boost is like making a super group out of unknown, but well respected, musicians and thinking they can crack the Billboard *that* way. I firmly believe their best chance at keeping this genre fresh and selling at a respectable pace for the next 10, 20, 30 years is by growing the tourney scene.  It would be great if they’d take notice and start working with players, on both technical game balancing issues and tourney organization.  The problem is that they probably just view FGC in terms of sales, view spectators and players as leeches off of that one copy of UMVC3 in the one Xbox that’s being played on in a room of 1000 people, without seeing the big picture.  But once again, they’d have to work with the FGC on the FGC terms.  

    It doesn’t seem like it’d be harder than giving Capcom USA a couple million (skim a little off the sales of the latest Monster Hunter port) to hire some staff, organize tourneys, and collect balancing information from players, which the game devs could freely respond to.  But everything I know about Japanese corporate structure goes against this ever happening.  I guess we’ll see what happens.  

    Either way, I’m pretty happy knowing the Dark Era is over and no matter how badly Capcom drops the ball with their next batch of games, we won’t return to that.  That sucked.  I don’t want to be excited about a Dead or Alive game again just because it’s the only fighter that’s gonna come out within a few year period.

  • Fulvio Cattaneo

    I disagree. It seems rather senseless to me…. for various reasons: first, most of players of fighting games today are NOT arcade centers’ players. Maybe Ultradavid and few others but for sure almost none in Europe (here the arcade centers died long ago). Sure, I did play Street fighter II back then in the arcades, but how long? Not much. It was mainly a game for consoles for me. 
    The second thing I totally disagree about is the gaming platform. Sure, Starcraft needs a computer (not that powerful actually) but what about Call of Duty? Halo? These games do have a major league, do not need any explanation, even more than fighting games….

    All in all, the truth is many of “us” want to remain segregate, “elitist” for nostalgic reasons or for their own interest. 

  • Fulvio Cattaneo

    I disagree. It seems rather senseless to me…. for various reasons: first, most of players of fighting games today are NOT arcade centers’ players. Maybe Ultradavid and few others but for sure almost none in Europe (here the arcade centers died long ago). Sure, I did play Street fighter II back then in the arcades, but how long? Not much. It was mainly a game for consoles for me. 
    The second thing I totally disagree about is the gaming platform. Sure, Starcraft needs a computer (not that powerful actually) but what about Call of Duty? Halo? These games do have a major league, do not need any explanation, even more than fighting games….

    All in all, the truth is many of “us” want to remain segregate, “elitist” for nostalgic reasons or for their own interest. 

  • Fulvio Cattaneo

    I disagree. It seems rather senseless to me…. for various reasons: first, most of players of fighting games today are NOT arcade centers’ players. Maybe Ultradavid and few others but for sure almost none in Europe (here the arcade centers died long ago). Sure, I did play Street fighter II back then in the arcades, but how long? Not much. It was mainly a game for consoles for me. 
    The second thing I totally disagree about is the gaming platform. Sure, Starcraft needs a computer (not that powerful actually) but what about Call of Duty? Halo? These games do have a major league, do not need any explanation, even more than fighting games….

    All in all, the truth is many of “us” want to remain segregate, “elitist” for nostalgic reasons or for their own interest. 

  • Fulvio Cattaneo

    I disagree. It seems rather senseless to me…. for various reasons: first, most of players of fighting games today are NOT arcade centers’ players. Maybe Ultradavid and few others but for sure almost none in Europe (here the arcade centers died long ago). Sure, I did play Street fighter II back then in the arcades, but how long? Not much. It was mainly a game for consoles for me. 
    The second thing I totally disagree about is the gaming platform. Sure, Starcraft needs a computer (not that powerful actually) but what about Call of Duty? Halo? These games do have a major league, do not need any explanation, even more than fighting games….

    All in all, the truth is many of “us” want to remain segregate, “elitist” for nostalgic reasons or for their own interest. 

  • Fulvio Cattaneo

    I disagree. It seems rather senseless to me…. for various reasons: first, most of players of fighting games today are NOT arcade centers’ players. Maybe Ultradavid and few others but for sure almost none in Europe (here the arcade centers died long ago). Sure, I did play Street fighter II back then in the arcades, but how long? Not much. It was mainly a game for consoles for me. 
    The second thing I totally disagree about is the gaming platform. Sure, Starcraft needs a computer (not that powerful actually) but what about Call of Duty? Halo? These games do have a major league, do not need any explanation, even more than fighting games….

    All in all, the truth is many of “us” want to remain segregate, “elitist” for nostalgic reasons or for their own interest. 

  • David Kuhn

    shoutouts to commenting before you read  the article (Kappa)

  • David Kuhn

    shoutouts to commenting before you read  the article (Kappa)

  • David Kuhn

    shoutouts to commenting before you read  the article (Kappa)

  • David Kuhn

    shoutouts to commenting before you read  the article (Kappa)

  • David Kuhn

    shoutouts to commenting before you read  the article (Kappa)

  • David Kuhn

    shoutouts to commenting before you read  the article (Kappa)

  • Quintus Havis

    Just wanted to comment and say there’s no such thing as harmlessly racist. Even if no one immediately around is hurt by it, the having the attitude itself is harmful.

  • Quintus Havis

    Just wanted to comment and say there’s no such thing as harmlessly racist. Even if no one immediately around is hurt by it, the having the attitude itself is harmful.

  • Quintus Havis

    Just wanted to comment and say there’s no such thing as harmlessly racist. Even if no one immediately around is hurt by it, the having the attitude itself is harmful.

  • Quintus Havis

    Just wanted to comment and say there’s no such thing as harmlessly racist. Even if no one immediately around is hurt by it, the having the attitude itself is harmful.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Woozle316 Woozle ThreeSixteen

    THANK YOU BASED-ULTRADAVID!

  • http://www.facebook.com/Woozle316 Woozle ThreeSixteen

    THANK YOU BASED-ULTRADAVID!

  • http://www.facebook.com/Woozle316 Woozle ThreeSixteen

    THANK YOU BASED-ULTRADAVID!

  • http://www.facebook.com/Woozle316 Woozle ThreeSixteen

    THANK YOU BASED-ULTRADAVID!

  • Anonymous

    Reading this article has caused me to wonder:  What if MLG is just afraid of the FGC blowing up independent of its umbrella?

    This may seem totally preposterous considering the present state of affairs, but it’s certainly not outside of the realm of possibility. There is a certain draw to the community. Considering that, eventually the community may draw in the business-types that UltraDavid mentioned (if they aren’t already in and/or going through school for that kind of stuff), and there is a possibility that those people could start moving the community in more lucrative directions independent of MLG.

    Very interesting article.

  • Anonymous

    Reading this article has caused me to wonder:  What if MLG is just afraid of the FGC blowing up independent of its umbrella?

    This may seem totally preposterous considering the present state of affairs, but it’s certainly not outside of the realm of possibility. There is a certain draw to the community. Considering that, eventually the community may draw in the business-types that UltraDavid mentioned (if they aren’t already in and/or going through school for that kind of stuff), and there is a possibility that those people could start moving the community in more lucrative directions independent of MLG.

    Very interesting article.

  • Anonymous

    Reading this article has caused me to wonder:  What if MLG is just afraid of the FGC blowing up independent of its umbrella?

    This may seem totally preposterous considering the present state of affairs, but it’s certainly not outside of the realm of possibility. There is a certain draw to the community. Considering that, eventually the community may draw in the business-types that UltraDavid mentioned (if they aren’t already in and/or going through school for that kind of stuff), and there is a possibility that those people could start moving the community in more lucrative directions independent of MLG.

    Very interesting article.

  • http://twitter.com/Tooitchy Darren Kehrli

    TLDR!

    just kidding, I’m halfway through, gotta take a break though, will finish in a bit. Amazing read so far, UltraDavid went all out with this one.

  • http://twitter.com/Tooitchy Darren Kehrli

    TLDR!

    just kidding, I’m halfway through, gotta take a break though, will finish in a bit. Amazing read so far, UltraDavid went all out with this one.

  • http://twitter.com/Tooitchy Darren Kehrli

    TLDR!

    just kidding, I’m halfway through, gotta take a break though, will finish in a bit. Amazing read so far, UltraDavid went all out with this one.

  • Anonymous

    Reading a quarter in, I start thinking SC players as commanders; issuing orders safely from home, and Marvel players are the pilots; battling it out on the front lines. No wonder SC players get paid so much.

  • Anonymous

    Reading a quarter in, I start thinking SC players as commanders; issuing orders safely from home, and Marvel players are the pilots; battling it out on the front lines. No wonder SC players get paid so much.

  • Anonymous

    Reading a quarter in, I start thinking SC players as commanders; issuing orders safely from home, and Marvel players are the pilots; battling it out on the front lines. No wonder SC players get paid so much.

  • Anonymous

    After reading Ultra David’s article, and listening to the
    VVV Gaming interview with Spooky last night, I have a few comments:

    Firstly, while David’s article was extremely
    comprehensive by way of showing the differences in the gaming communities, I
    would love to see him follow it up with an article detailing some ways that the
    communities could work together to benefit the FGC.

    Having said that, some of Jerry Prochazka’s comments were
    so offensive to me, as a viewer and follower of the FGC, I am outraged.

    For him to accuse Tom Cannon, and Ultra David of “taking
    advantage of the scene” and imply that they have personal and financial
    interests in keeping MLG out, was such irony. 
    Could he possibly be suggesting that MLG does not have a financial
    interest in getting involved?  At the
    very least, I would like to point out that MLG has much more to gain than any
    member of the FGC could ever lose in his lifetime.  Apparently he expects us to believe that this
    is simply a matter of a corporation seeing some deserving players, and wanting
    to compensate them.  It is an insult to
    the entire FGC to attempt to simplify this debate in those terms.

    Someone who has never been to a FGC event, never
    sponsored a FGC event, and does not follow the FGC, cannot grasp why
    members of this community might be reluctant to welcome them in?  People who throw stones should not live in
    glass houses.

    I do not by any means represent your core market.  I do not play fighting games.  I do not play any video games or PC games.  I guess you could say I am a sports
    spectator, similar to someone who follows the NFL.  But that doesn’t tell the whole story.  I also follow the FGC much like someone
    watches a reality show.  God knows you’re
    much more entertaining than anything on television!  What a cast of characters you possess!  You are exciting, passionate, driven, and
    diverse.  You have your own culture, and
    your own language.  You are unique in the
    gaming world, and in the world itself.  Even
    under the FGC umbrella, your sects are unique, as are the individuals in those
    sects.  You have unlimited content to
    pull from.  All you lack is money, and
    exposure.

    The suggestion that you may not be a good fit for any
    corporation, whether it be MLG, IPL or IGN, because of your differences and
    uniqueness is puzzling.  Your differences
    and uniqueness is precisely what a business should be looking at as your
    greatest asset.  It is what makes you
    MORE interesting, and MORE marketable than what they currently possess.

    If they haven’t even taken the time to know who you are,
    and have to be informed through Ultra David’s article, this is a tell-tale sign
    there is a problem.  You definitely
    should not allow yourselves to be forced into their “mold”, allow them to
    capitalize, and toss you aside without ever knowing or presenting all you have
    to offer.  Yes…this is the risk.  So, no Mr. Prochazka, it’s not about being
    uneducated, or stupid, or overly cautious. 
    It’s about getting all the answers before you hand over something you
    are passionate about.  Something you have
    built from the bottom up.  Something you
    have sacrificed for, and that you love.

    I am certainly not suggesting that collaboration should
    not happen, but there is much work to be done. 
    If they go ahead without your blessing, as threatened, I, for one, will
    not be watching.

    I would love to see Ultra David accept Jerry Prochazka’s
    invitation to discuss his article further. 
    I want to see the day our players are compensated proportionally to
    other e-Sports, just not at the expense of the entire FGC.

  • Anonymous

    After reading Ultra David’s article, and listening to the
    VVV Gaming interview with Spooky last night, I have a few comments:

    Firstly, while David’s article was extremely
    comprehensive by way of showing the differences in the gaming communities, I
    would love to see him follow it up with an article detailing some ways that the
    communities could work together to benefit the FGC.

    Having said that, some of Jerry Prochazka’s comments were
    so offensive to me, as a viewer and follower of the FGC, I am outraged.

    For him to accuse Tom Cannon, and Ultra David of “taking
    advantage of the scene” and imply that they have personal and financial
    interests in keeping MLG out, was such irony. 
    Could he possibly be suggesting that MLG does not have a financial
    interest in getting involved?  At the
    very least, I would like to point out that MLG has much more to gain than any
    member of the FGC could ever lose in his lifetime.  Apparently he expects us to believe that this
    is simply a matter of a corporation seeing some deserving players, and wanting
    to compensate them.  It is an insult to
    the entire FGC to attempt to simplify this debate in those terms.

    Someone who has never been to a FGC event, never
    sponsored a FGC event, and does not follow the FGC, cannot grasp why
    members of this community might be reluctant to welcome them in?  People who throw stones should not live in
    glass houses.

    I do not by any means represent your core market.  I do not play fighting games.  I do not play any video games or PC games.  I guess you could say I am a sports
    spectator, similar to someone who follows the NFL.  But that doesn’t tell the whole story.  I also follow the FGC much like someone
    watches a reality show.  God knows you’re
    much more entertaining than anything on television!  What a cast of characters you possess!  You are exciting, passionate, driven, and
    diverse.  You have your own culture, and
    your own language.  You are unique in the
    gaming world, and in the world itself.  Even
    under the FGC umbrella, your sects are unique, as are the individuals in those
    sects.  You have unlimited content to
    pull from.  All you lack is money, and
    exposure.

    The suggestion that you may not be a good fit for any
    corporation, whether it be MLG, IPL or IGN, because of your differences and
    uniqueness is puzzling.  Your differences
    and uniqueness is precisely what a business should be looking at as your
    greatest asset.  It is what makes you
    MORE interesting, and MORE marketable than what they currently possess.

    If they haven’t even taken the time to know who you are,
    and have to be informed through Ultra David’s article, this is a tell-tale sign
    there is a problem.  You definitely
    should not allow yourselves to be forced into their “mold”, allow them to
    capitalize, and toss you aside without ever knowing or presenting all you have
    to offer.  Yes…this is the risk.  So, no Mr. Prochazka, it’s not about being
    uneducated, or stupid, or overly cautious. 
    It’s about getting all the answers before you hand over something you
    are passionate about.  Something you have
    built from the bottom up.  Something you
    have sacrificed for, and that you love.

    I am certainly not suggesting that collaboration should
    not happen, but there is much work to be done. 
    If they go ahead without your blessing, as threatened, I, for one, will
    not be watching.

    I would love to see Ultra David accept Jerry Prochazka’s
    invitation to discuss his article further. 
    I want to see the day our players are compensated proportionally to
    other e-Sports, just not at the expense of the entire FGC.

  • Anonymous

    After reading Ultra David’s article, and listening to the
    VVV Gaming interview with Spooky last night, I have a few comments:

    Firstly, while David’s article was extremely
    comprehensive by way of showing the differences in the gaming communities, I
    would love to see him follow it up with an article detailing some ways that the
    communities could work together to benefit the FGC.

    Having said that, some of Jerry Prochazka’s comments were
    so offensive to me, as a viewer and follower of the FGC, I am outraged.

    For him to accuse Tom Cannon, and Ultra David of “taking
    advantage of the scene” and imply that they have personal and financial
    interests in keeping MLG out, was such irony. 
    Could he possibly be suggesting that MLG does not have a financial
    interest in getting involved?  At the
    very least, I would like to point out that MLG has much more to gain than any
    member of the FGC could ever lose in his lifetime.  Apparently he expects us to believe that this
    is simply a matter of a corporation seeing some deserving players, and wanting
    to compensate them.  It is an insult to
    the entire FGC to attempt to simplify this debate in those terms.

    Someone who has never been to a FGC event, never
    sponsored a FGC event, and does not follow the FGC, cannot grasp why
    members of this community might be reluctant to welcome them in?  People who throw stones should not live in
    glass houses.

    I do not by any means represent your core market.  I do not play fighting games.  I do not play any video games or PC games.  I guess you could say I am a sports
    spectator, similar to someone who follows the NFL.  But that doesn’t tell the whole story.  I also follow the FGC much like someone
    watches a reality show.  God knows you’re
    much more entertaining than anything on television!  What a cast of characters you possess!  You are exciting, passionate, driven, and
    diverse.  You have your own culture, and
    your own language.  You are unique in the
    gaming world, and in the world itself.  Even
    under the FGC umbrella, your sects are unique, as are the individuals in those
    sects.  You have unlimited content to
    pull from.  All you lack is money, and
    exposure.

    The suggestion that you may not be a good fit for any
    corporation, whether it be MLG, IPL or IGN, because of your differences and
    uniqueness is puzzling.  Your differences
    and uniqueness is precisely what a business should be looking at as your
    greatest asset.  It is what makes you
    MORE interesting, and MORE marketable than what they currently possess.

    If they haven’t even taken the time to know who you are,
    and have to be informed through Ultra David’s article, this is a tell-tale sign
    there is a problem.  You definitely
    should not allow yourselves to be forced into their “mold”, allow them to
    capitalize, and toss you aside without ever knowing or presenting all you have
    to offer.  Yes…this is the risk.  So, no Mr. Prochazka, it’s not about being
    uneducated, or stupid, or overly cautious. 
    It’s about getting all the answers before you hand over something you
    are passionate about.  Something you have
    built from the bottom up.  Something you
    have sacrificed for, and that you love.

    I am certainly not suggesting that collaboration should
    not happen, but there is much work to be done. 
    If they go ahead without your blessing, as threatened, I, for one, will
    not be watching.

    I would love to see Ultra David accept Jerry Prochazka’s
    invitation to discuss his article further. 
    I want to see the day our players are compensated proportionally to
    other e-Sports, just not at the expense of the entire FGC.

  • Anonymous

    After reading Ultra David’s article, and listening to the
    VVV Gaming interview with Spooky last night, I have a few comments:

    Firstly, while David’s article was extremely
    comprehensive by way of showing the differences in the gaming communities, I
    would love to see him follow it up with an article detailing some ways that the
    communities could work together to benefit the FGC.

    Having said that, some of Jerry Prochazka’s comments were
    so offensive to me, as a viewer and follower of the FGC, I am outraged.

    For him to accuse Tom Cannon, and Ultra David of “taking
    advantage of the scene” and imply that they have personal and financial
    interests in keeping MLG out, was such irony. 
    Could he possibly be suggesting that MLG does not have a financial
    interest in getting involved?  At the
    very least, I would like to point out that MLG has much more to gain than any
    member of the FGC could ever lose in his lifetime.  Apparently he expects us to believe that this
    is simply a matter of a corporation seeing some deserving players, and wanting
    to compensate them.  It is an insult to
    the entire FGC to attempt to simplify this debate in those terms.

    Someone who has never been to a FGC event, never
    sponsored a FGC event, and does not follow the FGC, cannot grasp why
    members of this community might be reluctant to welcome them in?  People who throw stones should not live in
    glass houses.

    I do not by any means represent your core market.  I do not play fighting games.  I do not play any video games or PC games.  I guess you could say I am a sports
    spectator, similar to someone who follows the NFL.  But that doesn’t tell the whole story.  I also follow the FGC much like someone
    watches a reality show.  God knows you’re
    much more entertaining than anything on television!  What a cast of characters you possess!  You are exciting, passionate, driven, and
    diverse.  You have your own culture, and
    your own language.  You are unique in the
    gaming world, and in the world itself.  Even
    under the FGC umbrella, your sects are unique, as are the individuals in those
    sects.  You have unlimited content to
    pull from.  All you lack is money, and
    exposure.

    The suggestion that you may not be a good fit for any
    corporation, whether it be MLG, IPL or IGN, because of your differences and
    uniqueness is puzzling.  Your differences
    and uniqueness is precisely what a business should be looking at as your
    greatest asset.  It is what makes you
    MORE interesting, and MORE marketable than what they currently possess.

    If they haven’t even taken the time to know who you are,
    and have to be informed through Ultra David’s article, this is a tell-tale sign
    there is a problem.  You definitely
    should not allow yourselves to be forced into their “mold”, allow them to
    capitalize, and toss you aside without ever knowing or presenting all you have
    to offer.  Yes…this is the risk.  So, no Mr. Prochazka, it’s not about being
    uneducated, or stupid, or overly cautious. 
    It’s about getting all the answers before you hand over something you
    are passionate about.  Something you have
    built from the bottom up.  Something you
    have sacrificed for, and that you love.

    I am certainly not suggesting that collaboration should
    not happen, but there is much work to be done. 
    If they go ahead without your blessing, as threatened, I, for one, will
    not be watching.

    I would love to see Ultra David accept Jerry Prochazka’s
    invitation to discuss his article further. 
    I want to see the day our players are compensated proportionally to
    other e-Sports, just not at the expense of the entire FGC.

  • Anonymous

    After reading Ultra David’s article, and listening to the
    VVV Gaming interview with Spooky last night, I have a few comments:

    Firstly, while David’s article was extremely
    comprehensive by way of showing the differences in the gaming communities, I
    would love to see him follow it up with an article detailing some ways that the
    communities could work together to benefit the FGC.

    Having said that, some of Jerry Prochazka’s comments were
    so offensive to me, as a viewer and follower of the FGC, I am outraged.

    For him to accuse Tom Cannon, and Ultra David of “taking
    advantage of the scene” and imply that they have personal and financial
    interests in keeping MLG out, was such irony. 
    Could he possibly be suggesting that MLG does not have a financial
    interest in getting involved?  At the
    very least, I would like to point out that MLG has much more to gain than any
    member of the FGC could ever lose in his lifetime.  Apparently he expects us to believe that this
    is simply a matter of a corporation seeing some deserving players, and wanting
    to compensate them.  It is an insult to
    the entire FGC to attempt to simplify this debate in those terms.

    Someone who has never been to a FGC event, never
    sponsored a FGC event, and does not follow the FGC, cannot grasp why
    members of this community might be reluctant to welcome them in?  People who throw stones should not live in
    glass houses.

    I do not by any means represent your core market.  I do not play fighting games.  I do not play any video games or PC games.  I guess you could say I am a sports
    spectator, similar to someone who follows the NFL.  But that doesn’t tell the whole story.  I also follow the FGC much like someone
    watches a reality show.  God knows you’re
    much more entertaining than anything on television!  What a cast of characters you possess!  You are exciting, passionate, driven, and
    diverse.  You have your own culture, and
    your own language.  You are unique in the
    gaming world, and in the world itself.  Even
    under the FGC umbrella, your sects are unique, as are the individuals in those
    sects.  You have unlimited content to
    pull from.  All you lack is money, and
    exposure.

    The suggestion that you may not be a good fit for any
    corporation, whether it be MLG, IPL or IGN, because of your differences and
    uniqueness is puzzling.  Your differences
    and uniqueness is precisely what a business should be looking at as your
    greatest asset.  It is what makes you
    MORE interesting, and MORE marketable than what they currently possess.

    If they haven’t even taken the time to know who you are,
    and have to be informed through Ultra David’s article, this is a tell-tale sign
    there is a problem.  You definitely
    should not allow yourselves to be forced into their “mold”, allow them to
    capitalize, and toss you aside without ever knowing or presenting all you have
    to offer.  Yes…this is the risk.  So, no Mr. Prochazka, it’s not about being
    uneducated, or stupid, or overly cautious. 
    It’s about getting all the answers before you hand over something you
    are passionate about.  Something you have
    built from the bottom up.  Something you
    have sacrificed for, and that you love.

    I am certainly not suggesting that collaboration should
    not happen, but there is much work to be done. 
    If they go ahead without your blessing, as threatened, I, for one, will
    not be watching.

    I would love to see Ultra David accept Jerry Prochazka’s
    invitation to discuss his article further. 
    I want to see the day our players are compensated proportionally to
    other e-Sports, just not at the expense of the entire FGC.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Amante-Libre/1522816559 Amante Libre

    A long but VERY good read; props to UltraDavid! As we continue to grow as a community, this kind of thoughtful commentary and analysis will be required to advance the ongoing dialogue.

  • Anonymous

    God damn UD… that shit was sick. Haven’t had a read like that in a long while. Thank you for taking the time to put all that thought into word.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1077222362 Maxime Boivin

    Nice and long article. I learned a lot about the fighting scene, but what was the scandal about Smash? I’m curious lol

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1077222362 Maxime Boivin

    Nice and long article. I learned a lot about the fighting scene, but what was the scandal about Smash? I’m curious lol

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1077222362 Maxime Boivin

    Nice and long article. I learned a lot about the fighting scene, but what was the scandal about Smash? I’m curious lol

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1077222362 Maxime Boivin

    Nice and long article. I learned a lot about the fighting scene, but what was the scandal about Smash? I’m curious lol

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=8230518 Mark Wins

      Basically, top players would consistently agree to split the pot. Say 1st place was $400 and 2nd place was $200, the two players would agree to split it an even $300 and obviously play the match not as intensely as they could. A slightly more uncommon thing (but still relatively common compared to the SF scenes, at least to my knowledge) was losing pool matches and bracket matches on purpose so as to not have to play certain players that were sure to beat someone due to either character or personal matchups. 

      Honestly, I feel like it was those two things (along with Smasher’s general code of honor) that kept MetaKnight in the game for sooooo long. 

  • Anonymous

    FG community is more honest and prideful

    in a good and in a bad way

  • Anonymous

      This is possibly one of the best written articles I’ve read in a long time. Really insightful and bought up a couple of differences between the two communities that I wouldn’t have thought of (namely how different our backgrounds, both player and community history, are). Honestly, I would like to see the FGC really make it big, but only if we can keep being who we are. I guess I just don’t want this community to lose what makes it so special and keeps bringing me back to it.

  • Anonymous

      This is possibly one of the best written articles I’ve read in a long time. Really insightful and bought up a couple of differences between the two communities that I wouldn’t have thought of (namely how different our backgrounds, both player and community history, are). Honestly, I would like to see the FGC really make it big, but only if we can keep being who we are. I guess I just don’t want this community to lose what makes it so special and keeps bringing me back to it.

  • Anonymous

      This is possibly one of the best written articles I’ve read in a long time. Really insightful and bought up a couple of differences between the two communities that I wouldn’t have thought of (namely how different our backgrounds, both player and community history, are). Honestly, I would like to see the FGC really make it big, but only if we can keep being who we are. I guess I just don’t want this community to lose what makes it so special and keeps bringing me back to it.

  • Anonymous

      This is possibly one of the best written articles I’ve read in a long time. Really insightful and bought up a couple of differences between the two communities that I wouldn’t have thought of (namely how different our backgrounds, both player and community history, are). Honestly, I would like to see the FGC really make it big, but only if we can keep being who we are. I guess I just don’t want this community to lose what makes it so special and keeps bringing me back to it.

  • Anonymous

      This is possibly one of the best written articles I’ve read in a long time. Really insightful and bought up a couple of differences between the two communities that I wouldn’t have thought of (namely how different our backgrounds, both player and community history, are). Honestly, I would like to see the FGC really make it big, but only if we can keep being who we are. I guess I just don’t want this community to lose what makes it so special and keeps bringing me back to it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=8230518 Mark Wins

    This was an amaaaazing read.

  • http://twitter.com/GracefulDave Graceful Dave Norton

    The idea of “not selling out” in an esports perspective is absolutely ludicrous. Anyone can play a game on their own, that’s fine. They are entertained by the act of playing the game themselves. If you want someone to watch you play however, this is different. They aren’t getting entertained the same way you are. So where do they get their entertainment from? The same place every spectator gets at any sporting event, fight, or competition: from the SPECTACLE. The words even share the same root. What you as a player are doing must be impressive; people have to want to see you be superhuman, achieve victory in a way they could not just sit down and replicate after a few hours of play. This means that the better you are, the more people will want to watch. And that goes for your competitors too. The audience doesn’t want to watch you stomp some newbie up and down, they want suspense so they can invest themselves in the outcome. 

    So now you have the goal of being the best you can be, along with your opponents. But you can’t. Why? You have to work, go to school, etc. You have to live your life as a person AS WELL as aim to be the best in the world at something immensely challenging. If only you could make money being an athlete, then you could focus all your time into being the best player, instead of being a sub-par player and sub-par worker/student/etc. How do you do this? Easy. Advertising.

    By owning a spectacle you own people’s attention. Companies will then pay you to let them associate their products with your team, event, player. This is how sports do it, and look how successful they are. They’re the MOST successful. And honestly, that’s how it has to happen. A marketing team is not a parasite, latching on to your success in the hopes of making a quick buck before moving on. As a BW fan turned SC2 fan I can tell you that this is simply not true. You develop a relationship with your brands. Why? Because they are so impressed by what you are doing and have so much faith in it that they will put vast amounts of money on the line, betting that YOU WILL SUCCEED. They are taking these economic risks I’ve been told you don’t understand. 

    It is definitely true that PC games are easier to market for because of all the working bits that can be personalized by the consumer. But the other side of that is intense customer loyalty. Ever been on a gaming forum and seen the “console wars” raging? It’s idiotic yes, and juvenile yes, but it’s a mass of people swearing death oaths against anyone who doesn’t support their company. As a PC gamer I have had unbelievable customer service experience with Razer and Astro and I haven’t bought any peripheral from anyone else. Ever. I trust them with my money and they respect me in return. Guys, having these companies on your side is amazing. They saw a need in the community and built companies to create products for you. I definitely see this as an artifact for developer betrayal and I’m sorry for it, because it’s a wonderful place to come from. 

    MLG, for instance, only started showing SC2 last year. The first game had a few benches for the fans and open tables for the players. Now they have high-tech booths and rows and rows and rows of chairs, one step off from a stadium experience. Why? Because they listened to the fans. At the Winter Arena last weekend MLG flew out EVERY SINGLE COMPETITOR to play, from NA, Europe, and Asia. Why? So that they don’t have to worry about being able to attend, or worry over the details of flights and hotels and meals and all that. They get to worry about playing their absolute best, and holy shit, was that a weekend to remember.

    I follow your scene vicariously through my brother, who was watching EVO 2011 when I was watching MLG that same weekend. I was really impressed. It’s amazingly easy to pick up and watch, the tournament structure is amazing in such a fast paced game, and yeah, the hype was awesome! The Winter Arena was the first of its kind by MLG and it had no spectators, the entire thing was online. At your average MLG Pro Circuit tournament there is a MASSIVE open group play, a group stage, and multiple other games going on. This Arena was the qualifier for that Championship and was set up in their NYC office. The games were spectacular, but man, I missed the fans. You want that massive cheer to go up after they punch GG for the last time. 

    And look, SC2 fans LOVE to see the personality shine through. In Korea during the BW days you weren’t even allowed to type into chat or risk being disqualified, other than to tap out. It’s a totally different culture. Every interview was the same: “I want to give my fans the best games and I hope I do well.” That’s boring. The globalization allows for SC2 players to open up, talk some shit, set up rivalries, and hype up the drama. MC made a huge splash into the scene by actually being a Korean with a personality. IdrA has thousands of fans because he actually speaks his mind and likes to let people know when he thinks you are shit. Basically, the hype is there, it’s just fighting against an entrenched culture of respect that followed over from the Korean scene, much like you are struggling with some of what your own history brings you. The hype at the event is different only because the game is so complex that you really need the casters to keep you in the loop, because the best of them are professional in skill level and can get you into the player’s heads so much better. Plus the game revolves around limited information, so having a screaming crowd actually affects the game. A famous MLG moment was when HuK built a Mothership which cloaks everything around it and so lags the game. The roar goes up from the crowd and HuK tells Select: “don’t worry, that’s Halo.”

    A quick note, NO ONE in the SC2 scene wants to play on Bnet. It’s a travesty that Blizzard’s own tournament was delayed by HOURS because of internet issues. People fly across the globe to then log on and play online. It’s retarded. But that’s Blizzard’s stance, to protect their profits or whathaveyou. While a bit of lag totally wrecks a SF match, it also does an SC2 match. But it has to come in during a big engagement, which is when the lightning quick reflexes of the player are being taxed. It’s still playable because of the downtime between engagements; you’re not always within striking distance of your opponent. We just have no choice in the matter. Blizzard is actually a horrendous mother company. Yes they support us in ways your scene doesn’t have, but it’s not that big of a deal. When BW got big, Blizzard didn’t give one fuck! They had NOTHING to do with the scene at all. They didn’t even patch the game after a while unless something was actually broken. When SC2 came about, they had their model to shoot for and aimed to make, not just a game, but an esport. There was litigation way past release date where Blizzard clamped down on their copy rights to force bidding wars over their broadcast rights. KeSPA, the Korean eSports Association kept broadcasting their cable matches for MONTHS after they were legally told to stop because they felt Blizzard had no right to claim any ownership. Blizzard patched the game the day of the MLG Winter Arena, messing up the metagame entirely, not to mention a few days before the GSL finals, the largest SC2 tournament in Korea, maybe the world. They patch the game for the newbies, not the pros. They support the scene as little as they can, they just stole what they knew already worked. Yes, it’s not the crap you have to deal with in making them listen to you, but SC2′s rise has almost NOTHING to do with Blizzard. Yeah we borrowed from Korea, but how do you think they got up and running? The technology was there, Korea had broadband everywhere and needed something to play. When the climate changes just right for the passion to reach the masses, the game will go pro. All you need is a bit of patching to keep it competitive and you’re set.  

    In fact, that moves me to my criticism of the article. It leaves us with a warning to not judge a scene before you understand it. I learned a lot about the FGC today and I am thankful, but almost everything said about SC2 I just disagreed with, not only the way he talks about LAN. I don’t see myself as kindred to console FPS players, or any FPS players, or rather, I do, but not by any degree more than I see myself as kindred to you guys. It’s esports like it’s email. It legitimizes the concept. SC2 blew up because streaming became viable on the small and large scale. It was already big in Korea, we already watched 240p streams of internet TV in Korean at 3am, but the tech changed so we could watch 1080p, on any coast, in the afternoon, in English. People made it accessible and they made it well. Day9 started doing a video podcast to teach newbies how to overcome their hurdles, months later he’s being flown around the world to cast matches in Germany and all over the States, and now he’s got his own gaming league. All while going to graduate school. Make the content, make it good, be consistent, and people will come. I for one can’t wait for EVO this year, even if it’s just to watch the final few tiers in the tournament. 

    I don’t think your window of opportunity is now. I think it’s yours for the taking when you want it. But it requires risk, it requires partnership, and it requires compromise, though not as much as you think. You have a mentality that is very adverse to cooperation, and I now understand why thanks to this article. SC fans had to band together to get broadcasts out of Korea, to share replays of pros, to get maps from the creators, to translate it all, etc. The SC community constantly astounds me at how helpful and respectful they are. We all just want everyone to do their best always, thus giving the best results and experience for players, teams, events, companies, and fans alike. We got big because of this, because we wanted to. And you will when you want to, whenever that may be.

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