Where eSports Leagues Go Wrong With Fighters

The whole eSports vs. fighting games debate has flared up once again, with this rant from team manager for Evil Geniuses, SirScoots.  Here’s a brief summary: a segment of the FGC is just too stubborn to get along with the broader eSports community, so as a result we will never “blow up” like we could and we will be stuck with our “little events” forever.  Similar sentiments are starting to echo throughout the twittisphere.  Since a lot of this heat is directed specifically at this site and honestly at me, this editorial is to set the record straight.  I know I speak for a lot of fighting fans when I say that my reluctance to leap into the arms of eSports is not out of stubbornness, but because past eSports leagues have an abysmal track record when it comes to fighting games, and they are dead set on doing things their own way, without input from the community.

The Fighting Game Success Story

First, let’s talk about things blowing up.  Fighting games, especially Street Fighter IV, are indeed growing like wildfire, but it’s because of the way the FGC handles it’s business, not in spite of it.  In 2011 EVO and the FGC posted better viewership numbers not just than the MLG event running the same weekend, but of any competitive gaming event EVER.  The secret ingredient was hype, and with due respect to Capcom, the game is just one ingredient to building that hype.  SF4′s hype is the result of thousands of careful decisions, big and small, made by the hundreds of passionate gamers that are caretakers of the fighting game tournament scene over the last 20 years.  We have steered this ship from tiny gatherings at arcades, through the death of those arcades onto consoles, and into one of the biggest things in competitive gaming today.  SF4 didn’t magically blow up overnight.  We built it, and we’re going to keep building it.

So the issue is not whether fighting games are going to continue to blow up, because they will.  The issue is this: can the eSports leagues be responsible partners in continuing to cultivate what we have built?  Can they push it forward even more?  Unfortunately, the leagues have an uninterrupted run of screwing up fighting games, so the resounding answer is “no.”

eSports Fighting Blunders

The history of eSports fighting game screw-ups is long.

WCG 2005

Rewind to 2005.  The fighting game scene looked very much like a smaller scale version of what it is today.  It’s a year after the infectious Daigo parry video.  The Marvel vs. Capcom 2 craze is in full swing, but SF3 Third Strike and Capcom vs. SNK 2 still garner hundreds of players at major tournaments.  Evo 2005 attracts top players from Europe, Korea, and Japan like Ryan Hart, Qudans, Ohnuki, BAS, Kindevu, and Tokido.

The FGC wanted badly to come out of the shadows, so we were hopeful when World Cyber Games announced that they would pick up a fighter for the first time.  Hope turned to disgust when they choose Dead or Alive Ultimate, a game that almost no one took seriously and that had literally 1% the competitive following of the Capcom and Namco games of the day.  For non fighting-game fans, this decision was akin to choosing Age of Empires 2 over Starcraft: Broodwar.  WCG stuck with DoA through 2007, then switched to Virtua Fighter 5 in 2008, a game which was popular in Asia but had far less western appeal than the big games at the time: Marvel vs. Capcom 2 and Tekken 5.

MLG 2005, 2010

Also in 2005, MLG collaborated with Evo for a joint event in Las Vegas.  MLG held tournaments for Halo and Smash Bros.  Evo held tournaments for SSF2T, SF3 Third Strike, MvC2, CvS2, GGXX, Tekken 5, and TTT.  Evo attendees outnumbered MLG attendees by more than 4 to 1, but Evo was only allocated 1/4th of the total floor space, resulting in lots of cramped players and hard feelings.  We were literally shoved into the corner of an otherwise all-MLG event.  In retaliation, Evo attendees booed the Halo finalists (an act which we condemned publicly on the spot, by the way).  MLG disengaged with the FGC utterly until 2010.

In 2010 MLG briefly flirted with Tekken 6, a game on its last legs competitively.  When the player numbers were predictably lackluster, MLG dropped the game at the end of the season.

CGS 2007

In 2007 the Championship Gaming Series repeated WCG’s blunder when it picked up Dead or Alive 4, a fighting game with a tiny competitive following and questionable appeal, even from DOA fans.  They structured their league with bizarre, non-standard rules and without input from community tournament organizers.  CGS promised big money contracts for its players, but choose those players not based on tournament results or qualifiers, but on a draft that some feel was rigged to favor one team over all others.  The big money dreams came crashing down when CGS declared bankruptcy after their 2008 season.

A consistent record of failure

It’s hard to overstate this point:  the eSports leagues have a consistent record of failure when it comes to fighters, from 2005 to the present day.  They are profoundly ignorant about fighters.  They can’t tell a good fighter from a bad fighter, don’t understand what motivates fighting game players, and most importantly, the existing eSports models are not built to cultivate what we value most: hype.

DOA, MK9, TK6, Smash. All have been in traditional eSports leagues. Many sold a lot more retail copies than Street Fighter. None have blown up.  Some don’t even survive. If the eSports model and big prizes for pros is the secret to success, what happened to not just one fighting game, but all of these? Was it the publishers fault? The community? Everyone gets blame except the leagues and their failure to understand fighters.

Non-engagement with the fighting game community

“That’s all in the past” you may say.  ”This time things will be better.”  Unfortunately, this is not the case.  To date these eSports leagues continue their policy of zero-engagement with the FGC, the very gamers they are supposedly trying to cater to.  And this is in stark contrast to the kinds of engagement these leagues have with the Starcraft 2 community in venues like teamliquid.net and the Starcraft reddit, where reps from the leagues consistently give updates and ask for feedback from the community.

The recent Dreamhack SF4 tournament is a perfect example.  Their SF4 event was lackluster in two big ways:  many top players were conspicuously absent and the overall stream production was poor.  The matches were played too quickly for the commentators to explain what was going on, and the in-match commentary was not up to the standards set by the majors in the U.S.  Why did this happen?  Because for whatever reason the Dreamhack staff completely overlooked the FGC in their planning and promotion.  They didn’t advertise their event on sites like this one, Eventhubs, and Iplaywinner.  They didn’t invest in stream production by bringing in expert commentators.  Compare that to the effort they expended on Starcraft 2, flying in at least 8 commentators from all over the world.  Heck, they had a whole couch of backup Starcraft commentators.  I don’t want to harp on Dreamhack too much because overall I’m a fan of what they do and enjoyed their broadcast, but the contrast is clear.

These eSports organizations think they can do it on their own, when their track record proves just the opposite.  So, why should we put the future of fighters in the hands of the eSports leagues?  They have consistently botched the job, and they sure don’t seem interested in a true partnership with the grassroots organizations that built this thing in the first place.

Success stories between eSports and the FGC

Some will tell you that the FGC is too ornery and self-centered to work with anyone.  That we just want to be left alone.  Don’t believe it.  Organizations that have offered a real value proposition have found success with fighters.  Just look at the teams like Evil Geniuses, Complexity, and eLivePro.  Player sponsorship is one eSports-ism that has taken root with fighters with benefits for both sides.  Streaming is another.  A bunch of eSports heads showed the potential of fighting game streams and the community ran with it, because it worked.  Now practically every fighting game event has a pretty good quality stream.

But yet again, this is in stark contrast to the predominant eSports viewpoint, which is this: “games is games.  It’s all the same.  Trust us!”  The FGC has already learned some things from the eSports scene, to our benefit.  The eSports leagues so far have been unwilling to even consider that that they have something to learn from us, despite our long track record of success.

The way forward

So what’s next?  Esports found real success when they discovered they could do broadcast without TV.  What if the FGC discovers you can do Esports without the traditional Esports models?  Be proud of what we’ve accomplished, because it’s awesome and unique.  It’s awesome because it’s unique, on many levels.  Do I want to see bigger prize pools in the FGC?  Of course, and I’m working hard on that problem.  Do I want to give up the uniqueness of the FGC community to get them?  Hell no.  I reject the idea that the only path to more money for players is through the traditional eSports model.  I’m happy to work with anyone who has a shared respect for these games and the community that supports them, but the “our way or the highway” approach of the traditional eSports league will absolutely ruin fighting games, as it has done in the past.

 

Tom Cannon is now on Twitter!


[images via NYTimes]

  • http://twitter.com/MiguelXRivera Miguel Rivera

    Brilliant article.  Agreed on every count.  Whether fighting games are “eSports” or aren’t or whether eSports is even a term that should be used, the reality regardless of all of that is that the current “FGC” model has room to grow and can do so on its own terms.

  • http://twitter.com/MiguelXRivera Miguel Rivera

    Brilliant article.  Agreed on every count.  Whether fighting games are “eSports” or aren’t or whether eSports is even a term that should be used, the reality regardless of all of that is that the current “FGC” model has room to grow and can do so on its own terms.

  • http://twitter.com/MiguelXRivera Miguel Rivera

    Brilliant article.  Agreed on every count.  Whether fighting games are “eSports” or aren’t or whether eSports is even a term that should be used, the reality regardless of all of that is that the current “FGC” model has room to grow and can do so on its own terms.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ravend-Ruledmom/100002551210796 Ravend Ruledmom

    not capcom = crap
    derp

    • Anonymous

      I’m not sure what article you read.  Wait…did you read the article?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ravend-Ruledmom/100002551210796 Ravend Ruledmom

        opps wrong article lols

        • http://twitter.com/BUSB00M Steve B

          Now we know that Ravend Ruledmom is an idiot.

        • http://twitter.com/BUSB00M Steve B

          Now we know that Ravend Ruledmom is an idiot.

          • Gökhan Kara

            Aren’t you being a little harsh?

          • http://twitter.com/Tooitchy Darren Kehrli

            No.

          • http://twitter.com/Tooitchy Darren Kehrli

            No.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ravend-Ruledmom/100002551210796 Ravend Ruledmom

            No.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ravend-Ruledmom/100002551210796 Ravend Ruledmom

            No.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ravend-Ruledmom/100002551210796 Ravend Ruledmom

            No.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ravend-Ruledmom/100002551210796 Ravend Ruledmom

            No.

  • Anonymous

    I think it’s pretty transparent why SirScoots is so eager to see the fighting game community engage with the eSports world, and it has nothing to do with the benefit of the community. The guy wants to position the fighting game community to where he is best poised to make the most money off it. Why would anyone give the slightest bit of credence to what he thinks?

  • Anonymous

    I think it’s pretty transparent why SirScoots is so eager to see the fighting game community engage with the eSports world, and it has nothing to do with the benefit of the community. The guy wants to position the fighting game community to where he is best poised to make the most money off it. Why would anyone give the slightest bit of credence to what he thinks?

    • http://twitter.com/onReload onReload

      This. I wouldn’t want to be following any other genre of competitive gaming, and I’m glad it’s “underground” and “raw,” the same terms that SirScoots sarcastically uses, because I for one don’t care about how much money there is to be gained in the games we like to play.

      • http://twitter.com/FishStix Ben Goldhaber

        but, would you like to see Justin Wong quit his day job? Or UltraChen start producing Street Fighter content 8 hours a day? 

        THAT’S what can be achieved when you “sell out” (see: get sponsors and a business model)

        • http://twitter.com/onReload onReload

          Not really, to be honest. I mean I’m happy for people who are able to make money from this kind of thing, but I’d rather just be able to play a lot of different games with a lot of different people, and that’s been possible for quite some time, and the number of opportunities are still rising.

          • hyerty

            Viscant barely made any “money” from Season’s Beatings. If he had gotten third place, he would have lost money from going to the event.

          • hyerty

            Viscant barely made any “money” from Season’s Beatings. If he had gotten third place, he would have lost money from going to the event.

          • Courtney Graham

            People like you are why this mentality doesn’t work. No one cares what just YOU want, the FGC is not you and your underground friends playing Street Fighter in someone’s basement, it can be, but it doesn’t have to be, nor is it limited too. A lot of people would love to see it prosper and see how far we can get, it doesn’t mean you cant have your basement street fighter parties, it just means that you can have your parties and we can have our fancy stuff going on too. I’ll never understand why you would want to restrict others just to keep what you have, it’s incredibly selfish

          • http://twitter.com/onReload onReload

            I never said I’m against people succeeding with this lifestyle, I just don’t hold it as high as a lot of other people. It’s not a negative outlook that I have, it’s just that I think people misconstrue this new direction as “progress,” when really it’s just a philosophy that benefits a smaller section of the fighting game community. I don’t intend to speak for the FGC, which – by the way – has existed way before any of these issues came about (take a look at the article recently posted about the history of fighting games), and we haven’t always been playing in each others’ basements – we used to be out in arcades, and we still set up shop in large venues, all without the need for sponsorships. If anything, sure, I’d like to see tournament organizers stop losing money, but EVO proved this was possible without the cooperation of cybersports/esports leagues. People are always going to have to spend money for their hobbies, it’s always going to be (and this is how it is with the RTS/FPS communities) very rare that players and organizers find this to be profitable. Either way, I don’t see why I have to keep thinking bigger and bigger if I love playing fighting games, and your negative, condescending attitude just sticks an even larger wedge between players like me and players like you.

          • http://twitter.com/onReload onReload

            I never said I’m against people succeeding with this lifestyle, I just don’t hold it as high as a lot of other people. It’s not a negative outlook that I have, it’s just that I think people misconstrue this new direction as “progress,” when really it’s just a philosophy that benefits a smaller section of the fighting game community. I don’t intend to speak for the FGC, which – by the way – has existed way before any of these issues came about (take a look at the article recently posted about the history of fighting games), and we haven’t always been playing in each others’ basements – we used to be out in arcades, and we still set up shop in large venues, all without the need for sponsorships. If anything, sure, I’d like to see tournament organizers stop losing money, but EVO proved this was possible without the cooperation of cybersports/esports leagues. People are always going to have to spend money for their hobbies, it’s always going to be (and this is how it is with the RTS/FPS communities) very rare that players and organizers find this to be profitable. Either way, I don’t see why I have to keep thinking bigger and bigger if I love playing fighting games, and your negative, condescending attitude just sticks an even larger wedge between players like me and players like you.

          • http://twitter.com/onReload onReload

            I never said I’m against people succeeding with this lifestyle, I just don’t hold it as high as a lot of other people. It’s not a negative outlook that I have, it’s just that I think people misconstrue this new direction as “progress,” when really it’s just a philosophy that benefits a smaller section of the fighting game community. I don’t intend to speak for the FGC, which – by the way – has existed way before any of these issues came about (take a look at the article recently posted about the history of fighting games), and we haven’t always been playing in each others’ basements – we used to be out in arcades, and we still set up shop in large venues, all without the need for sponsorships. If anything, sure, I’d like to see tournament organizers stop losing money, but EVO proved this was possible without the cooperation of cybersports/esports leagues. People are always going to have to spend money for their hobbies, it’s always going to be (and this is how it is with the RTS/FPS communities) very rare that players and organizers find this to be profitable. Either way, I don’t see why I have to keep thinking bigger and bigger if I love playing fighting games, and your negative, condescending attitude just sticks an even larger wedge between players like me and players like you.

          • http://twitter.com/onReload onReload

            I never said I’m against people succeeding with this lifestyle, I just don’t hold it as high as a lot of other people. It’s not a negative outlook that I have, it’s just that I think people misconstrue this new direction as “progress,” when really it’s just a philosophy that benefits a smaller section of the fighting game community. I don’t intend to speak for the FGC, which – by the way – has existed way before any of these issues came about (take a look at the article recently posted about the history of fighting games), and we haven’t always been playing in each others’ basements – we used to be out in arcades, and we still set up shop in large venues, all without the need for sponsorships. If anything, sure, I’d like to see tournament organizers stop losing money, but EVO proved this was possible without the cooperation of cybersports/esports leagues. People are always going to have to spend money for their hobbies, it’s always going to be (and this is how it is with the RTS/FPS communities) very rare that players and organizers find this to be profitable. Either way, I don’t see why I have to keep thinking bigger and bigger if I love playing fighting games, and your negative, condescending attitude just sticks an even larger wedge between players like me and players like you.

          • http://twitter.com/onReload onReload

            I never said I’m against people succeeding with this lifestyle, I just don’t hold it as high as a lot of other people. It’s not a negative outlook that I have, it’s just that I think people misconstrue this new direction as “progress,” when really it’s just a philosophy that benefits a smaller section of the fighting game community. I don’t intend to speak for the FGC, which – by the way – has existed way before any of these issues came about (take a look at the article recently posted about the history of fighting games), and we haven’t always been playing in each others’ basements – we used to be out in arcades, and we still set up shop in large venues, all without the need for sponsorships. If anything, sure, I’d like to see tournament organizers stop losing money, but EVO proved this was possible without the cooperation of cybersports/esports leagues. People are always going to have to spend money for their hobbies, it’s always going to be (and this is how it is with the RTS/FPS communities) very rare that players and organizers find this to be profitable. Either way, I don’t see why I have to keep thinking bigger and bigger if I love playing fighting games, and your negative, condescending attitude just sticks an even larger wedge between players like me and players like you.

          • http://twitter.com/onReload onReload

            I never said I’m against people succeeding with this lifestyle, I just don’t hold it as high as a lot of other people. It’s not a negative outlook that I have, it’s just that I think people misconstrue this new direction as “progress,” when really it’s just a philosophy that benefits a smaller section of the fighting game community. I don’t intend to speak for the FGC, which – by the way – has existed way before any of these issues came about (take a look at the article recently posted about the history of fighting games), and we haven’t always been playing in each others’ basements – we used to be out in arcades, and we still set up shop in large venues, all without the need for sponsorships. If anything, sure, I’d like to see tournament organizers stop losing money, but EVO proved this was possible without the cooperation of cybersports/esports leagues. People are always going to have to spend money for their hobbies, it’s always going to be (and this is how it is with the RTS/FPS communities) very rare that players and organizers find this to be profitable. Either way, I don’t see why I have to keep thinking bigger and bigger if I love playing fighting games, and your negative, condescending attitude just sticks an even larger wedge between players like me and players like you.

          • http://twitter.com/onReload onReload

            I never said I’m against people succeeding with this lifestyle, I just don’t hold it as high as a lot of other people. It’s not a negative outlook that I have, it’s just that I think people misconstrue this new direction as “progress,” when really it’s just a philosophy that benefits a smaller section of the fighting game community. I don’t intend to speak for the FGC, which – by the way – has existed way before any of these issues came about (take a look at the article recently posted about the history of fighting games), and we haven’t always been playing in each others’ basements – we used to be out in arcades, and we still set up shop in large venues, all without the need for sponsorships. If anything, sure, I’d like to see tournament organizers stop losing money, but EVO proved this was possible without the cooperation of cybersports/esports leagues. People are always going to have to spend money for their hobbies, it’s always going to be (and this is how it is with the RTS/FPS communities) very rare that players and organizers find this to be profitable. Either way, I don’t see why I have to keep thinking bigger and bigger if I love playing fighting games, and your negative, condescending attitude just sticks an even larger wedge between players like me and players like you.

          • Courtney Graham

            People like you are why this mentality doesn’t work. No one cares what just YOU want, the FGC is not you and your underground friends playing Street Fighter in someone’s basement, it can be, but it doesn’t have to be, nor is it limited too. A lot of people would love to see it prosper and see how far we can get, it doesn’t mean you cant have your basement street fighter parties, it just means that you can have your parties and we can have our fancy stuff going on too. I’ll never understand why you would want to restrict others just to keep what you have, it’s incredibly selfish

          • Courtney Graham

            People like you are why this mentality doesn’t work. No one cares what just YOU want, the FGC is not you and your underground friends playing Street Fighter in someone’s basement, it can be, but it doesn’t have to be, nor is it limited too. A lot of people would love to see it prosper and see how far we can get, it doesn’t mean you cant have your basement street fighter parties, it just means that you can have your parties and we can have our fancy stuff going on too. I’ll never understand why you would want to restrict others just to keep what you have, it’s incredibly selfish

          • Courtney Graham

            People like you are why this mentality doesn’t work. No one cares what just YOU want, the FGC is not you and your underground friends playing Street Fighter in someone’s basement, it can be, but it doesn’t have to be, nor is it limited too. A lot of people would love to see it prosper and see how far we can get, it doesn’t mean you cant have your basement street fighter parties, it just means that you can have your parties and we can have our fancy stuff going on too. I’ll never understand why you would want to restrict others just to keep what you have, it’s incredibly selfish

        • http://twitter.com/onReload onReload

          Not really, to be honest. I mean I’m happy for people who are able to make money from this kind of thing, but I’d rather just be able to play a lot of different games with a lot of different people, and that’s been possible for quite some time, and the number of opportunities are still rising.

        • http://twitter.com/BUSB00M Steve B

          I’d enjoy it if they sold out. The only thing that I don’t like about the SC2 Model (at least MLG model) is that it is so hard to break out. Its 16 players and 4 players can play them. In the current FGC model anybody can break out. Anybody can be a star. It would be nice to see Marn or Gootecks or Combofiend or FlashMetroid at every tournament. It would be nice if the money was there. The FGC is extremely stingy (I Mean come on, 10 dollar entry fee at EVO). The WSOP is I believe at least a $25,000 buy in. Wouldn’t it be nice if it were a 50 dollar buy in at EVO or at least 40.

          We may not have the participants but the money would be there for zero sandbagging. Or every main tournament to have a 30 dollar entry fee. I feel that MLG would be good but I remember playing Halo at an MLG event and I believe it was 250 per team to get bodied. There are only 5 events a year. I just don’t know how the structure would be if we had everything like this.

          Would Frank, Louis, AJ, and Valle be compensated for their streams? That is only one company that streams for the community. What about underground yet next level streams like Finest KO or Offcast? Explain this to me. I want to see a proper business model for the people who will be losing their gigs if they switch to this business model.

          • http://twitter.com/SonicKaos Trevor McKee

            I go to tournaments that cost $10 bucks to enter, even though I know I won’t win. It’s a fun time, and $10 for a full days worth of fun is worth it. If it cost $50 to enter, I’d stay at home and watch the stream instead.

            A lot of people go to tournaments, but not everyone is amazing at the game. Increase the cost = decrease the number of entrants that enter, because no one wants to pay a ton of money to lose. Sure you’d only get the best of the best playing at tournaments which would be exciting for a while, but then people who aren’t as skilled would lose interest and disappear, taking their entry fees with them.

          • http://twitter.com/SonicKaos Trevor McKee

            I go to tournaments that cost $10 bucks to enter, even though I know I won’t win. It’s a fun time, and $10 for a full days worth of fun is worth it. If it cost $50 to enter, I’d stay at home and watch the stream instead.

            A lot of people go to tournaments, but not everyone is amazing at the game. Increase the cost = decrease the number of entrants that enter, because no one wants to pay a ton of money to lose. Sure you’d only get the best of the best playing at tournaments which would be exciting for a while, but then people who aren’t as skilled would lose interest and disappear, taking their entry fees with them.

          • http://twitter.com/SonicKaos Trevor McKee

            I go to tournaments that cost $10 bucks to enter, even though I know I won’t win. It’s a fun time, and $10 for a full days worth of fun is worth it. If it cost $50 to enter, I’d stay at home and watch the stream instead.

            A lot of people go to tournaments, but not everyone is amazing at the game. Increase the cost = decrease the number of entrants that enter, because no one wants to pay a ton of money to lose. Sure you’d only get the best of the best playing at tournaments which would be exciting for a while, but then people who aren’t as skilled would lose interest and disappear, taking their entry fees with them.

          • http://twitter.com/Tooitchy Darren Kehrli

            I really don’t see why this would happen. The point of tournaments is experience, to level your own game up, and see where you stand against other players/top players. There would of course be some that shy away, but 90% of the people at Evo don’t live in Vegas anyways, so 40/50 dollar entry fees are nothing compared to what they paid to travel out there.

          • http://twitter.com/Tooitchy Darren Kehrli

            I really don’t see why this would happen. The point of tournaments is experience, to level your own game up, and see where you stand against other players/top players. There would of course be some that shy away, but 90% of the people at Evo don’t live in Vegas anyways, so 40/50 dollar entry fees are nothing compared to what they paid to travel out there.

          • http://twitter.com/Tooitchy Darren Kehrli

            I really don’t see why this would happen. The point of tournaments is experience, to level your own game up, and see where you stand against other players/top players. There would of course be some that shy away, but 90% of the people at Evo don’t live in Vegas anyways, so 40/50 dollar entry fees are nothing compared to what they paid to travel out there.

          • http://twitter.com/Tooitchy Darren Kehrli

            I really don’t see why this would happen. The point of tournaments is experience, to level your own game up, and see where you stand against other players/top players. There would of course be some that shy away, but 90% of the people at Evo don’t live in Vegas anyways, so 40/50 dollar entry fees are nothing compared to what they paid to travel out there.

        • http://twitter.com/BUSB00M Steve B

          I’d enjoy it if they sold out. The only thing that I don’t like about the SC2 Model (at least MLG model) is that it is so hard to break out. Its 16 players and 4 players can play them. In the current FGC model anybody can break out. Anybody can be a star. It would be nice to see Marn or Gootecks or Combofiend or FlashMetroid at every tournament. It would be nice if the money was there. The FGC is extremely stingy (I Mean come on, 10 dollar entry fee at EVO). The WSOP is I believe at least a $25,000 buy in. Wouldn’t it be nice if it were a 50 dollar buy in at EVO or at least 40.

          We may not have the participants but the money would be there for zero sandbagging. Or every main tournament to have a 30 dollar entry fee. I feel that MLG would be good but I remember playing Halo at an MLG event and I believe it was 250 per team to get bodied. There are only 5 events a year. I just don’t know how the structure would be if we had everything like this.

          Would Frank, Louis, AJ, and Valle be compensated for their streams? That is only one company that streams for the community. What about underground yet next level streams like Finest KO or Offcast? Explain this to me. I want to see a proper business model for the people who will be losing their gigs if they switch to this business model.

        • http://twitter.com/BUSB00M Steve B

          I’d enjoy it if they sold out. The only thing that I don’t like about the SC2 Model (at least MLG model) is that it is so hard to break out. Its 16 players and 4 players can play them. In the current FGC model anybody can break out. Anybody can be a star. It would be nice to see Marn or Gootecks or Combofiend or FlashMetroid at every tournament. It would be nice if the money was there. The FGC is extremely stingy (I Mean come on, 10 dollar entry fee at EVO). The WSOP is I believe at least a $25,000 buy in. Wouldn’t it be nice if it were a 50 dollar buy in at EVO or at least 40.

          We may not have the participants but the money would be there for zero sandbagging. Or every main tournament to have a 30 dollar entry fee. I feel that MLG would be good but I remember playing Halo at an MLG event and I believe it was 250 per team to get bodied. There are only 5 events a year. I just don’t know how the structure would be if we had everything like this.

          Would Frank, Louis, AJ, and Valle be compensated for their streams? That is only one company that streams for the community. What about underground yet next level streams like Finest KO or Offcast? Explain this to me. I want to see a proper business model for the people who will be losing their gigs if they switch to this business model.

        • http://twitter.com/Tooitchy Darren Kehrli

          i don’t want to see ultradavid and james chen produce anything, i can barely handle their commentary as it is. Yes, they know what they’re talking about, and the words they say are good, and know how to commentate, but their individual personalities wear on me sooo bad. James Chen complains non stop about GOOD characters, and how bad he thinks they are (just cause he sucks with them), and ultradavid can become incredibly condescending towards the people playing if they drop a combo/make a mistake, Skisonic does the same thing, and I can’t stand it. If you’re not placing top 50 at a minor tournament, please don’t act like you could do better than someone in top 4 of a MAJOR.

          Not to mention the two of them have developed quite the ego, which makes me sad.

          • Michael Hatch

            John Madden can become incredibly condescending towards the people playing if they drop a pass/make a fumble, Bob Costas does the same thing, and I can’t stand it. If you’re not even in the NFL, please don’t act like you could do better than someone in the SUPER BOWL
            ftfy

          • Michael Hatch

            John Madden can become incredibly condescending towards the people playing if they drop a pass/make a fumble, Bob Costas does the same thing, and I can’t stand it. If you’re not even in the NFL, please don’t act like you could do better than someone in the SUPER BOWL
            ftfy

        • http://twitter.com/Tooitchy Darren Kehrli

          i don’t want to see ultradavid and james chen produce anything, i can barely handle their commentary as it is. Yes, they know what they’re talking about, and the words they say are good, and know how to commentate, but their individual personalities wear on me sooo bad. James Chen complains non stop about GOOD characters, and how bad he thinks they are (just cause he sucks with them), and ultradavid can become incredibly condescending towards the people playing if they drop a combo/make a mistake, Skisonic does the same thing, and I can’t stand it. If you’re not placing top 50 at a minor tournament, please don’t act like you could do better than someone in top 4 of a MAJOR.

          Not to mention the two of them have developed quite the ego, which makes me sad.

      • http://twitter.com/FishStix Ben Goldhaber

        but, would you like to see Justin Wong quit his day job? Or UltraChen start producing Street Fighter content 8 hours a day? 

        THAT’S what can be achieved when you “sell out” (see: get sponsors and a business model)

      • http://twitter.com/FishStix Ben Goldhaber

        but, would you like to see Justin Wong quit his day job? Or UltraChen start producing Street Fighter content 8 hours a day? 

        THAT’S what can be achieved when you “sell out” (see: get sponsors and a business model)

    • http://twitter.com/FishStix Ben Goldhaber

      I still don’t get the perception that eSports somehow wants to associate itself with athletic contests. 

      • Hector Garcia

        Very simple, it’s right in your face, it has the word sport in the name. 

        • http://twitter.com/fightngamezonln thec0re3

          I’ve recently had this argument with someone.

          The definition of Sport.

          1. a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.b. A particular form of this activity.<——-
          2.
          An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a
          set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
          3. An active pastime; recreation. <——-I'll even argue the first can be also considered in this definition. We have associated the term sports with popular games that involve a certain amount of athleticism. We've all but ignored some of the games that do not involve a certain amount of athleticism yet are stilled considered sports.  Look through some of the olympic games and you'll find some examples. Watch Espn and you'll see other examples like pool or even golf for that matter.  So the issue is not that the word sports is in the name, the issue is what we associate with the sports and so esports gets looked over by many as unsatisfactory when it comes to having a name for competitive gaming. Do I think esports can be used? Facts do support that it can. Should it be used? IMO no I believe that the competitive gaming community can come up with a better name then that.

          • http://twitter.com/Tooitchy Darren Kehrli

            I absolutely believe anything competitive can be considered a sport, however I hate that the esports community, uses that term. It’s like begging for public recognition as a legitimate activity “LOOK, VIDEO GAMES ARE SPORTS, ITS OK TO PLAY THEM! ACCEPT US PLEASE!!!”.

            They can, and should come up with a better term. Why not just competitive gaming? Call it what it is, why try to justify what you do, by trying to label it as sports? As if somehow big fat Joe from Alabama will take a break from his college football to watch some guys play video games, because it’s a sport.

          • http://twitter.com/Tooitchy Darren Kehrli

            I absolutely believe anything competitive can be considered a sport, however I hate that the esports community, uses that term. It’s like begging for public recognition as a legitimate activity “LOOK, VIDEO GAMES ARE SPORTS, ITS OK TO PLAY THEM! ACCEPT US PLEASE!!!”.

            They can, and should come up with a better term. Why not just competitive gaming? Call it what it is, why try to justify what you do, by trying to label it as sports? As if somehow big fat Joe from Alabama will take a break from his college football to watch some guys play video games, because it’s a sport.

          • http://twitter.com/Tooitchy Darren Kehrli

            I absolutely believe anything competitive can be considered a sport, however I hate that the esports community, uses that term. It’s like begging for public recognition as a legitimate activity “LOOK, VIDEO GAMES ARE SPORTS, ITS OK TO PLAY THEM! ACCEPT US PLEASE!!!”.

            They can, and should come up with a better term. Why not just competitive gaming? Call it what it is, why try to justify what you do, by trying to label it as sports? As if somehow big fat Joe from Alabama will take a break from his college football to watch some guys play video games, because it’s a sport.

          • http://twitter.com/Tooitchy Darren Kehrli

            I absolutely believe anything competitive can be considered a sport, however I hate that the esports community, uses that term. It’s like begging for public recognition as a legitimate activity “LOOK, VIDEO GAMES ARE SPORTS, ITS OK TO PLAY THEM! ACCEPT US PLEASE!!!”.

            They can, and should come up with a better term. Why not just competitive gaming? Call it what it is, why try to justify what you do, by trying to label it as sports? As if somehow big fat Joe from Alabama will take a break from his college football to watch some guys play video games, because it’s a sport.

        • http://twitter.com/fightngamezonln thec0re3

          I’ve recently had this argument with someone.

          The definition of Sport.

          1. a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.b. A particular form of this activity.<——-
          2.
          An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a
          set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
          3. An active pastime; recreation. <——-I'll even argue the first can be also considered in this definition. We have associated the term sports with popular games that involve a certain amount of athleticism. We've all but ignored some of the games that do not involve a certain amount of athleticism yet are stilled considered sports.  Look through some of the olympic games and you'll find some examples. Watch Espn and you'll see other examples like pool or even golf for that matter.  So the issue is not that the word sports is in the name, the issue is what we associate with the sports and so esports gets looked over by many as unsatisfactory when it comes to having a name for competitive gaming. Do I think esports can be used? Facts do support that it can. Should it be used? IMO no I believe that the competitive gaming community can come up with a better name then that.

        • http://twitter.com/FishStix Ben Goldhaber

          semanticsplural of se·man·tics (Noun)
          Noun:The branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning.
          The meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text: “such quibbling over semantics may seem petty stuff”.Can we get over the word itsself and realize that we are doing the exact same thing?

          • Hector Garcia

            Ask around and the answer will be exactly like mine for the most part. You can say a word has multiple meanings, and apply them, but the majority of the people(in the US at least) make the connect I posted about earlier. 

            It’s just unfortunate they decided to coin the phrase with sport in it.  I am not against esports, just taken aback with some of it’s conventions. 

          • Anonymous

            Semantics is the plural form of semantics?  semantics plural of se·man·tics

          • Scott Barrett

            Yeah, Like “moose” is the plural of “moose”

          • Scott Barrett

            Yeah, Like “moose” is the plural of “moose”

          • Scott Barrett

            Yeah, Like “moose” is the plural of “moose”

          • http://twitter.com/Tooitchy Darren Kehrli

            semantics is the plural form of semen tics. It’s when your sperm has a mild uncontrollable muscle contraction, or “tic”

          • http://twitter.com/Tooitchy Darren Kehrli

            semantics is the plural form of semen tics. It’s when your sperm has a mild uncontrollable muscle contraction, or “tic”

          • http://twitter.com/Tooitchy Darren Kehrli

            semantics is the plural form of semen tics. It’s when your sperm has a mild uncontrollable muscle contraction, or “tic”

          • http://twitter.com/Tooitchy Darren Kehrli

            semantics is the plural form of semen tics. It’s when your sperm has a mild uncontrollable muscle contraction, or “tic”

        • http://twitter.com/FishStix Ben Goldhaber

          semanticsplural of se·man·tics (Noun)
          Noun:The branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning.
          The meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text: “such quibbling over semantics may seem petty stuff”.Can we get over the word itsself and realize that we are doing the exact same thing?

        • http://twitter.com/FishStix Ben Goldhaber

          semanticsplural of se·man·tics (Noun)
          Noun:The branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning.
          The meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text: “such quibbling over semantics may seem petty stuff”.Can we get over the word itsself and realize that we are doing the exact same thing?

        • http://twitter.com/FishStix Ben Goldhaber

          semanticsplural of se·man·tics (Noun)
          Noun:The branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning.
          The meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text: “such quibbling over semantics may seem petty stuff”.Can we get over the word itsself and realize that we are doing the exact same thing?

      • Hector Garcia

        Very simple, it’s right in your face, it has the word sport in the name. 

    • http://twitter.com/FishStix Ben Goldhaber

      I still don’t get the perception that eSports somehow wants to associate itself with athletic contests. 

    • http://twitter.com/FishStix Ben Goldhaber

      I still don’t get the perception that eSports somehow wants to associate itself with athletic contests. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/chriscruz Chris Cruz

       ”I also find it funny that he patronises the FGC about our “little events” when none, repeat, NONE of the games on the eSports circuit could ever have built anything CLOSE to what we’ve built without the massive corporate backing they have.”

      that statement is incredibly flawed.

      To SirScoot’s defense, he was there since the beginning. He has witnessed a whole genre evolve from humble beginnings to an international phenomenon. The FPS genre (in which he is most tied to) didn’t get to where it’s at because of corporate backings, the genre gained corporate backings because the companies that started sponsoring and backing backroots tournaments saw potential in the “little events” they were running at the time– and the organizers saw this, jumped on board and created this “esport” model in which we’re seeing today.

      I think everyone here should check out Korea’s “Tekken Crash.” This production is the closest thing the FGC community has ever reached in terms of an esports’ model and honestly, it’s probably the most amazing FG production out there. They have preseasons, seasons, & playoffs… stats, records, & teams. 

      This article is wreckless. Why write off leagues completely? Why not continue to work with them to evolve? 

      • Anonymous

        I think u’re missing the point.

      • Anonymous

        I think u’re missing the point.

      • Anonymous

        I think u’re missing the point.

        • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

          I think you’re a little out of date there.  In the past year eSports have gained tons of mainstream sponsors that aren’t PC hardware related at all.  Take energy drinks, don’t you think that’d be a legit sponsor for a FG player/team?  

          • Anonymous

            Sponsorships outside of computer based products happened many years later.  The first large scale FPS events were mostly sponsored by computer based products.  As events got bigger and garnered larger attendees, then yes Energy Drink companies and other started to invest in their events. 

          • hyerty

            There are fg tournaments that had energy drinks as sponsors. Just give up. Your points are pathetic and transparent.

          • http://twitter.com/BUSB00M Steve B

            MLG has Doritos, Hot Pockets, NOS, Sony, and a few others. They actually built up a backing for their company. They understand what sponsorships want. They want booths in convention Centers.

        • http://www.facebook.com/chriscruz Chris Cruz

          While true, to think that the FPS/RTS community would not have gotten anything “CLOSE” to what the FGC community has accomplished is laughable especially considering the most important games in esports history– CS1.6, Q3, and SC were some of the easiest games to run on any PC ever… even in 97 when we started seeing the first esports majors.

          The hardware companies may have been responsible for helping start the first major LAN tournies such as the CPL, but it was the communities who made it into what it is today. 

          Now, the FGC already has the foundation, we have the majors and we have the superbowls (EVO, SBO, Godsgarden). Now we’re at the stage of pushing to the next level… leagues have proven successful in other genres already; why right it off completely?

        • Chris Larson

          I just wanted to point out the fact that as esports grows, companies and advertisers see less of the fact that you are video game players, and more of the ‘demographic’ we represent. Companies outside the video game industry will start to advertise to us simply because of our numbers, and that’s the point. Continuous representation of the same demographic means a company will know exactly who they are advertising to when they pour money into an event, and that is a good thing.

        • Chris Larson

          I just wanted to point out the fact that as esports grows, companies and advertisers see less of the fact that you are video game players, and more of the ‘demographic’ we represent. Companies outside the video game industry will start to advertise to us simply because of our numbers, and that’s the point. Continuous representation of the same demographic means a company will know exactly who they are advertising to when they pour money into an event, and that is a good thing.

          • Anonymous

            too bad fighting game players are often too poor or too resistant to marketing in their demo. if i were to pick out a target audience for my product (and it wasn’t a joystick related business), the fighting game community might be the LAST group i would want to target.

            outside of joysticks, systems, and monitors, i don’t know what else hardcore FG players would ever invest money in. where as FPS’s  and other CPU games can always improve their rig, hardware can always give an edge, and the tech is always improving. its a great market to advertise in, where as the only successful businesses due to fighting games are mad catz and a few shirt makers.

          • Anonymous

            too bad fighting game players are often too poor or too resistant to marketing in their demo. if i were to pick out a target audience for my product (and it wasn’t a joystick related business), the fighting game community might be the LAST group i would want to target.

            outside of joysticks, systems, and monitors, i don’t know what else hardcore FG players would ever invest money in. where as FPS’s  and other CPU games can always improve their rig, hardware can always give an edge, and the tech is always improving. its a great market to advertise in, where as the only successful businesses due to fighting games are mad catz and a few shirt makers.

          • Anonymous

            too bad fighting game players are often too poor or too resistant to marketing in their demo. if i were to pick out a target audience for my product (and it wasn’t a joystick related business), the fighting game community might be the LAST group i would want to target.

            outside of joysticks, systems, and monitors, i don’t know what else hardcore FG players would ever invest money in. where as FPS’s  and other CPU games can always improve their rig, hardware can always give an edge, and the tech is always improving. its a great market to advertise in, where as the only successful businesses due to fighting games are mad catz and a few shirt makers.

          • Anonymous

            too bad fighting game players are often too poor or too resistant to marketing in their demo. if i were to pick out a target audience for my product (and it wasn’t a joystick related business), the fighting game community might be the LAST group i would want to target.

            outside of joysticks, systems, and monitors, i don’t know what else hardcore FG players would ever invest money in. where as FPS’s  and other CPU games can always improve their rig, hardware can always give an edge, and the tech is always improving. its a great market to advertise in, where as the only successful businesses due to fighting games are mad catz and a few shirt makers.

          • Anonymous

            too bad fighting game players are often too poor or too resistant to marketing in their demo. if i were to pick out a target audience for my product (and it wasn’t a joystick related business), the fighting game community might be the LAST group i would want to target.

            outside of joysticks, systems, and monitors, i don’t know what else hardcore FG players would ever invest money in. where as FPS’s  and other CPU games can always improve their rig, hardware can always give an edge, and the tech is always improving. its a great market to advertise in, where as the only successful businesses due to fighting games are mad catz and a few shirt makers.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Rivera/100000634687388 Christopher Rivera

            Cough fighting games on pc. If we would push more for them to be on pc that would not be an issue. Easier to stream from, nicer looking game and overall better performance.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Rivera/100000634687388 Christopher Rivera

            Cough fighting games on pc. If we would push more for them to be on pc that would not be an issue. Easier to stream from, nicer looking game and overall better performance.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Rivera/100000634687388 Christopher Rivera

            Cough fighting games on pc. If we would push more for them to be on pc that would not be an issue. Easier to stream from, nicer looking game and overall better performance.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Rivera/100000634687388 Christopher Rivera

            Cough fighting games on pc. If we would push more for them to be on pc that would not be an issue. Easier to stream from, nicer looking game and overall better performance.

        • Chris Larson

          I just wanted to point out the fact that as esports grows, companies and advertisers see less of the fact that you are video game players, and more of the ‘demographic’ we represent. Companies outside the video game industry will start to advertise to us simply because of our numbers, and that’s the point. Continuous representation of the same demographic means a company will know exactly who they are advertising to when they pour money into an event, and that is a good thing.

      • Anonymous

        I think u’re missing the point.

      • Anonymous

        I think u’re missing the point.

      • Anonymous

        I understand that, but that’s not what I want to see in the FGC. It’s something we created because we loved the games. I don’t want to see James Chen and Ultra David in matching suits. Justin Wong, Ricky Ortiz, and Floe should not be in matching uniforms. One of the major appeals in the FGC is that these are normal people who share a common interest. They have lives outside of this. We get plenty of magic from that aspect from D’Nyce talking about trannies and what his porn name would be while on stream. That’s 10 times more interesting than a commentator talking about stats before a match. These are just people going to an event that revolves around something they love with friends. By having that type of presentation, you’re imposing certain standards on the community because it has an image to uphold. There’s no telling what that will mean but it certainly won’t help the community grow.

        One thing that I’m afraid the eSports model will bring is a separation between the pros and average person. When you go to a tournament, you can face a top player. Whether it’s a league or NEC, the game is the same. The difference is there can always be a surprises like Gamerbee eliminating Justin Wong. A lot of people never heard of Fuudo before he won Evo. A nobody can come from nowhere and beat the pros. Those things wouldn’t happen in a league because the players are known beforehand.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Pippy-Short-Stockings/100000884295902 Pippy Short-Stockings

          Hence… this is part of the FGC ‘Hype’ aspect which he desires greatly to preserve. Pretty much the entire point of the article. Bring forth a model that can preserve what makes the FGC the FGC. If this is lost just for some more dollars then in his eyes all is lost. Which of you dare to disagree and fail to see that this is the point of the article??

        • http://twitter.com/broccoman Jeff

          You got a good point- maybe the community should look to WSOP as an inspiration instead of eSporrts.

          Evo is very similar when you think about it.  Any Joe can come in, and if lucky enough and good enough , can take out a pro. 

        • http://twitter.com/broccoman Jeff

          You got a good point- maybe the community should look to WSOP as an inspiration instead of eSporrts.

          Evo is very similar when you think about it.  Any Joe can come in, and if lucky enough and good enough , can take out a pro. 

        • http://twitter.com/BUSB00M Steve B

          I don’t respect D’Nyce’s commentary. I enjoy the eSports model. Yes they all do have one common interest. The Halo guys all have one common interest. I hate hearing people say “They don’t make this their life”. What are you looking for then? Are you looking for a shitty job for a game developer? I would much rather make SF4 my life. Maybe that is just me and my business aspect in life.

      • Anonymous

        Because the league model pre-empts the possibility that someone just comes in and pulls off a surprising performance.

        Also, there’s already an existing althletic model that we’re using, that of Pro Tennis. Which is why EVO has been called the “US Open” of fighting games.

      • Anonymous

        Because the league model pre-empts the possibility that someone just comes in and pulls off a surprising performance.

        Also, there’s already an existing althletic model that we’re using, that of Pro Tennis. Which is why EVO has been called the “US Open” of fighting games.

    • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

      your premise that “eSports presentation is silly and awkward” leads to your misinterpretation of SirScoots’ intentions

      the reason that SirScoots wants to see the FGC incorporated into “eSports” might just have to do with him making money.  I don’t know him or anything, so whatever, I’m not going to completely preclude the possibility that this is the case

      but I’m far more inclined to believe that he simply is, you know, heavily heavily ingrained in the eSports community, and that, as it turns out, he really really loves it.  

      apparently you don’t love it, which is fine.  I just think it’s strange that you assume that others can’t find the same love of professional Starcraft 2 events that you do of events like EVO, and go so far in that assumption as to believe that their primary motivator is in fact *greed.*   

    • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

      your premise that “eSports presentation is silly and awkward” leads to your misinterpretation of SirScoots’ intentions

      the reason that SirScoots wants to see the FGC incorporated into “eSports” might just have to do with him making money.  I don’t know him or anything, so whatever, I’m not going to completely preclude the possibility that this is the case

      but I’m far more inclined to believe that he simply is, you know, heavily heavily ingrained in the eSports community, and that, as it turns out, he really really loves it.  

      apparently you don’t love it, which is fine.  I just think it’s strange that you assume that others can’t find the same love of professional Starcraft 2 events that you do of events like EVO, and go so far in that assumption as to believe that their primary motivator is in fact *greed.*   

      • Anonymous

        Well, except that the ‘eSports’ programs have continuously failed to properly represent the FGC. It’s like the article said: it’d be like going in expecting Brood War and getting AoE II instead. It’d be like expecting CS, but getting… I don’t know; something like Goldeneye?

        Poor representation is the issue, not love for the game.

      • Anonymous

        Well, except that the ‘eSports’ programs have continuously failed to properly represent the FGC. It’s like the article said: it’d be like going in expecting Brood War and getting AoE II instead. It’d be like expecting CS, but getting… I don’t know; something like Goldeneye?

        Poor representation is the issue, not love for the game.

        • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

          I’m pretty sure this has more to do with Capcom (and the community) not wanting to associate with leagues like MLG than anything else. 

    • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

      your premise that “eSports presentation is silly and awkward” leads to your misinterpretation of SirScoots’ intentions

      the reason that SirScoots wants to see the FGC incorporated into “eSports” might just have to do with him making money.  I don’t know him or anything, so whatever, I’m not going to completely preclude the possibility that this is the case

      but I’m far more inclined to believe that he simply is, you know, heavily heavily ingrained in the eSports community, and that, as it turns out, he really really loves it.  

      apparently you don’t love it, which is fine.  I just think it’s strange that you assume that others can’t find the same love of professional Starcraft 2 events that you do of events like EVO, and go so far in that assumption as to believe that their primary motivator is in fact *greed.*   

    • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

      your premise that “eSports presentation is silly and awkward” leads to your misinterpretation of SirScoots’ intentions

      the reason that SirScoots wants to see the FGC incorporated into “eSports” might just have to do with him making money.  I don’t know him or anything, so whatever, I’m not going to completely preclude the possibility that this is the case

      but I’m far more inclined to believe that he simply is, you know, heavily heavily ingrained in the eSports community, and that, as it turns out, he really really loves it.  

      apparently you don’t love it, which is fine.  I just think it’s strange that you assume that others can’t find the same love of professional Starcraft 2 events that you do of events like EVO, and go so far in that assumption as to believe that their primary motivator is in fact *greed.*   

    • http://www.facebook.com/britmckay Brit Mckay

      This, pretty much.

      Also, I really hate the ‘word’ “eSports”. It’s stupid.

    • http://www.facebook.com/britmckay Brit Mckay

      This, pretty much.

      Also, I really hate the ‘word’ “eSports”. It’s stupid.

    • http://www.facebook.com/britmckay Brit Mckay

      This, pretty much.

      Also, I really hate the ‘word’ “eSports”. It’s stupid.

    • http://www.facebook.com/BoodaSRK Stephen Sloboda

      Hi-jacking your post to get this point across higher on the page. Shamelessly, I might add.

      But I will tie-in this point to your post. There is a difference here that can be compared to the difference between sports now and sports’ humble beginnings. Originally, sports were just games that people played for fun. Then people started wanting to see who was the best. Then people started getting interested in watching these competitions. Then people started selling stuff at these games because there were so many customers. Then they started selling seats, and you basically see where I’m going. Now it’s just assumed that the avid sports fan will pay hundreds of dollars for tickets or subscribed to ten different sports channels.

      What eSports want is to create that environment of charging everyone hundreds of dollars to watch their games, but without knowing that those vendors, cheerleaders, and TV cameras, are built around the excitement of the game. It’s like on Battle Bots where the matches were absolutely boring as hell, but they had crowds of people and an announcer to make it look like a WWE event. Imagine that kind of hype around a Chess game. You’d watch it once to get a laugh (in fact, the season finale of Doctor Who used the idea), but it wouldn’t be endearing.

      The FCG is building the hype around the games; The Correct Way ™.

    • http://www.facebook.com/BoodaSRK Stephen Sloboda

      Hi-jacking your post to get this point across higher on the page. Shamelessly, I might add.

      But I will tie-in this point to your post. There is a difference here that can be compared to the difference between sports now and sports’ humble beginnings. Originally, sports were just games that people played for fun. Then people started wanting to see who was the best. Then people started getting interested in watching these competitions. Then people started selling stuff at these games because there were so many customers. Then they started selling seats, and you basically see where I’m going. Now it’s just assumed that the avid sports fan will pay hundreds of dollars for tickets or subscribed to ten different sports channels.

      What eSports want is to create that environment of charging everyone hundreds of dollars to watch their games, but without knowing that those vendors, cheerleaders, and TV cameras, are built around the excitement of the game. It’s like on Battle Bots where the matches were absolutely boring as hell, but they had crowds of people and an announcer to make it look like a WWE event. Imagine that kind of hype around a Chess game. You’d watch it once to get a laugh (in fact, the season finale of Doctor Who used the idea), but it wouldn’t be endearing.

      The FCG is building the hype around the games; The Correct Way ™.

  • Anonymous

    I think it’s pretty transparent why SirScoots is so eager to see the fighting game community engage with the eSports world, and it has nothing to do with the benefit of the community. The guy wants to position the fighting game community to where he is best poised to make the most money off it. Why would anyone give the slightest bit of credence to what he thinks?

  • Anonymous

    I think it’s pretty transparent why SirScoots is so eager to see the fighting game community engage with the eSports world, and it has nothing to do with the benefit of the community. The guy wants to position the fighting game community to where he is best poised to make the most money off it. Why would anyone give the slightest bit of credence to what he thinks?

  • Anonymous

    I think it’s pretty transparent why SirScoots is so eager to see the fighting game community engage with the eSports world, and it has nothing to do with the benefit of the community. The guy wants to position the fighting game community to where he is best poised to make the most money off it. Why would anyone give the slightest bit of credence to what he thinks?

  • http://twitter.com/HJayZ91 Mr. Jones

    Great article

  • http://twitter.com/HJayZ91 Mr. Jones

    Great article

  • http://twitter.com/HJayZ91 Mr. Jones

    Great article

  • http://twitter.com/HJayZ91 Mr. Jones

    Great article

  • http://twitter.com/HJayZ91 Mr. Jones

    Great article

  • http://twitter.com/HJayZ91 Mr. Jones

    Great article

  • http://twitter.com/HJayZ91 Mr. Jones

    Great article

  • Anonymous

    fuck #eSports

  • Anonymous

    fuck #eSports

  • Anonymous

    fuck #eSports

  • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

    eSports is still a dumbass word. They are video games we play, not electronic sports, please stop trying to make them look like something they are not, it comes off as insecure or ashamed that we play video games competitively and love doing it.

    • http://twitter.com/feminine_odor hitler fucker

      Thank you.

    • http://twitter.com/feminine_odor hitler fucker

      Thank you.

    • http://twitter.com/feminine_odor hitler fucker

      Thank you.

    • Anonymous

      Agreed.  But at the sametime you should be insecure and ashamed if you play a video game all day long and neglect basic hygiene, sunlight, work, etc.  Unless of course your mom still cuts up your food for you.  Then I guess it’s okay. : )

      • Anonymous

        My mommy skins my apples :D

        • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

          Ah, but does she cut the crusts off of your grilled cheese? #bestmomever :-P

        • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

          Ah, but does she cut the crusts off of your grilled cheese? #bestmomever :-P

        • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

          Ah, but does she cut the crusts off of your grilled cheese? #bestmomever :-P

        • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

          Ah, but does she cut the crusts off of your grilled cheese? #bestmomever :-P

        • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

          Ah, but does she cut the crusts off of your grilled cheese? #bestmomever :-P

        • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

          Ah, but does she cut the crusts off of your grilled cheese? #bestmomever :-P

        • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

          Ah, but does she cut the crusts off of your grilled cheese? #bestmomever :-P

        • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

          Ah, but does she cut the crusts off of your grilled cheese? #bestmomever :-P

      • Nicolas Degli

        Hey it could be crack, video games ain’t that bad.

      • Nicolas Degli

        Hey it could be crack, video games ain’t that bad.

      • Nicolas Degli

        Hey it could be crack, video games ain’t that bad.

    • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

      what does this have to do with what’s currently being discussed?

      I mean, I personally hate the term too.  that’s really neither here nor there, though.

    • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

      what does this have to do with what’s currently being discussed?

      I mean, I personally hate the term too.  that’s really neither here nor there, though.

    • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

      what does this have to do with what’s currently being discussed?

      I mean, I personally hate the term too.  that’s really neither here nor there, though.

    • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

      what does this have to do with what’s currently being discussed?

      I mean, I personally hate the term too.  that’s really neither here nor there, though.

    • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

      what does this have to do with what’s currently being discussed?

      I mean, I personally hate the term too.  that’s really neither here nor there, though.

    • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

      what does this have to do with what’s currently being discussed?

      I mean, I personally hate the term too.  that’s really neither here nor there, though.

    • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

      what does this have to do with what’s currently being discussed?

      I mean, I personally hate the term too.  that’s really neither here nor there, though.

    • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

      what does this have to do with what’s currently being discussed?

      I mean, I personally hate the term too.  that’s really neither here nor there, though.

    • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

      what does this have to do with what’s currently being discussed?

      I mean, I personally hate the term too.  that’s really neither here nor there, though.

    • Chris Larson

      to do something ‘for sport’ means you do it for the competition, and that is all that the term esports is meant to convey.

    • Chris Larson

      to do something ‘for sport’ means you do it for the competition, and that is all that the term esports is meant to convey.

    • Chris Larson

      to do something ‘for sport’ means you do it for the competition, and that is all that the term esports is meant to convey.

  • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

    eSports is still a dumbass word. They are video games we play, not electronic sports, please stop trying to make them look like something they are not, it comes off as insecure or ashamed that we play video games competitively and love doing it.

  • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

    eSports is still a dumbass word. They are video games we play, not electronic sports, please stop trying to make them look like something they are not, it comes off as insecure or ashamed that we play video games competitively and love doing it.

  • http://twitter.com/hailtotheking21 Jeff Katz

    We had Tekken Tag Tournament 2 in 2005!?!?!? ;p

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Cannon/701758565 Tom Cannon

      Thanks for the catch!  I guess I have TTT 2 on the brain after the NEC stream today.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Cannon/701758565 Tom Cannon

      Thanks for the catch!  I guess I have TTT 2 on the brain after the NEC stream today.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Cannon/701758565 Tom Cannon

      Thanks for the catch!  I guess I have TTT 2 on the brain after the NEC stream today.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Cannon/701758565 Tom Cannon

      Thanks for the catch!  I guess I have TTT 2 on the brain after the NEC stream today.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Cannon/701758565 Tom Cannon

      Thanks for the catch!  I guess I have TTT 2 on the brain after the NEC stream today.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Cannon/701758565 Tom Cannon

      Thanks for the catch!  I guess I have TTT 2 on the brain after the NEC stream today.

  • http://twitter.com/hailtotheking21 Jeff Katz

    We had Tekken Tag Tournament 2 in 2005!?!?!? ;p

  • http://twitter.com/hailtotheking21 Jeff Katz

    We had Tekken Tag Tournament 2 in 2005!?!?!? ;p

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rulon-Dumas/721023436 Rulon Dumas

    Very good read. It’s because of how the FGC is that I even decided to look into the realm of traditional esports. I used to play Quake 3-4 on an intermediate level, but after I lost terribly at a random tourney to a professional, I stopped playing for some reason. Nowadays, even if I don’t play the games, I still look forward to seeing things like Quake, Starcraft, HoN, etc. and still be interested in what’s going on despite not knowing the full lingo. We have much to learn from each other. Problem is, most who partake in esports treat the FGC like we treat Smash players. Non-existent. This is something that has to change immediately. A bit of refinement won’t kill us, but not to the degree of losing what makes us unique in the first place.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rulon-Dumas/721023436 Rulon Dumas

    Very good read. It’s because of how the FGC is that I even decided to look into the realm of traditional esports. I used to play Quake 3-4 on an intermediate level, but after I lost terribly at a random tourney to a professional, I stopped playing for some reason. Nowadays, even if I don’t play the games, I still look forward to seeing things like Quake, Starcraft, HoN, etc. and still be interested in what’s going on despite not knowing the full lingo. We have much to learn from each other. Problem is, most who partake in esports treat the FGC like we treat Smash players. Non-existent. This is something that has to change immediately. A bit of refinement won’t kill us, but not to the degree of losing what makes us unique in the first place.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rulon-Dumas/721023436 Rulon Dumas

    Very good read. It’s because of how the FGC is that I even decided to look into the realm of traditional esports. I used to play Quake 3-4 on an intermediate level, but after I lost terribly at a random tourney to a professional, I stopped playing for some reason. Nowadays, even if I don’t play the games, I still look forward to seeing things like Quake, Starcraft, HoN, etc. and still be interested in what’s going on despite not knowing the full lingo. We have much to learn from each other. Problem is, most who partake in esports treat the FGC like we treat Smash players. Non-existent. This is something that has to change immediately. A bit of refinement won’t kill us, but not to the degree of losing what makes us unique in the first place.

  • http://www.facebook.com/nihilistes Carlo Dela Cruz

    Shoutouts to DOA, DOAMaster, and his “community.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/nihilistes Carlo Dela Cruz

    Shoutouts to DOA, DOAMaster, and his “community.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/nihilistes Carlo Dela Cruz

    Shoutouts to DOA, DOAMaster, and his “community.”

  • http://twitter.com/garytek Jonas

    I’ll take Yipe’s hilarious commentary over some John Madden faker any time of the week. 

    And yes, e-sports is a stupid term; it’s competitive gaming. Corporate bullshit can fuck off.

    • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

      You ever seen TotalBiscuit?  Don’t generalize man :)

      • hyerty

        Perfect example of white commentary and immature jokes.

        • RenaTurnip

          The hell do you call the rough half of the FGC’s commentary? Comedy gold?

          • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

            Apparently having minorities say it is priceless. UltraDavid saying “oh yeah, fuck that pussy!” (as Felicia gets comboed) vs. Yipes saying it? Okay, that’s actually kind of night and day, but you get the point.

          • hyerty

            Just saying having “minorities” joke is better than white’s imo. White people are too stiff.

        • RenaTurnip

          The hell do you call the rough half of the FGC’s commentary? Comedy gold?

        • RenaTurnip

          The hell do you call the rough half of the FGC’s commentary? Comedy gold?

        • RenaTurnip

          The hell do you call the rough half of the FGC’s commentary? Comedy gold?

        • RenaTurnip

          The hell do you call the rough half of the FGC’s commentary? Comedy gold?

      • Anonymous

        Perfect example of how much more fun the starcraft community was before sc2 and mlg.

      • Anonymous

        Perfect example of how much more fun the starcraft community was before sc2 and mlg.

      • Anonymous

        Perfect example of how much more fun the starcraft community was before sc2 and mlg.

      • Anonymous

        Day9 is the best thing to happen to SC2 commentary. 

        • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

          And Husky. H to the Usky is the reason why I know anything about SC2. I don’t watch live streams but I’ve lost hours on his youtube channel.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1268783559 Dat Dogge

            Husky is so bad though aaaaaaaaa

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1268783559 Dat Dogge

            Husky is so bad though aaaaaaaaa

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1268783559 Dat Dogge

            Husky is so bad though aaaaaaaaa

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1268783559 Dat Dogge

            Husky is so bad though aaaaaaaaa

    • http://twitter.com/BUSB00M Steve B

      Why do you demise corporations?

    • http://twitter.com/BUSB00M Steve B

      Why do you demise corporations?

    • http://twitter.com/BUSB00M Steve B

      Why do you demise corporations?

  • http://twitter.com/garytek Jonas

    I’ll take Yipe’s hilarious commentary over some John Madden faker any time of the week. 

    And yes, e-sports is a stupid term; it’s competitive gaming. Corporate bullshit can fuck off.

  • D Major

    As the people who are involved in the FGC get older so will the business opportunities.  That’s all that separates the models, business opportunity.

    If one soft drink company decides to go hard with EVO, then a car maker will follow, and a network will be in the future. 

    No worries. The time will come.

    • http://twitter.com/feminine_odor hitler fucker

      We already had a car though

    • http://twitter.com/feminine_odor hitler fucker

      We already had a car though

    • http://twitter.com/feminine_odor hitler fucker

      We already had a car though

      • Anonymous

        Yes, it was the toyota yaris.

    • http://twitter.com/feminine_odor hitler fucker

      We already had a car though

    • http://twitter.com/feminine_odor hitler fucker

      We already had a car though

    • http://twitter.com/feminine_odor hitler fucker

      We already had a car though

    • http://twitter.com/feminine_odor hitler fucker

      We already had a car though

    • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

      I think the frustration we (fans of all competitive gaming) feels stems from the fact that the business opportunities are here, now, and are not being taken advantage of by the FGC, when by all rights based on its insane growth and level of production value it should be taking part.

      • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

        Case in point:

        EG_IdrA after a weekend tournament:
        http://imgur.com/D7TKC

        EG_jwong after a weekend tournament:
        http://imgur.com/IY3nO

        On paper, these two guys have the same job:  playing video games competitively at a level above 99.9% of the rest of the world

        It is completely unacceptable that they can’t enjoy the same benefits for the same job.   If you close your mind to viewing each of these guys in the context if their scene you might accept it, but the point is, many of us are fans of all competitive gaming so when we see this it’s just an outrage.  

        • http://twitter.com/GrapeATL Grape 포도 약탈품

          They don’t have the same job, Justin Wong is a community manager for DFO iirc, they kinda need him.

          • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

            The point is that JWong should only have that second job if he WANTS to have it. His fighting game sponsorship should be sufficient to support him.

  • D Major

    As the people who are involved in the FGC get older so will the business opportunities.  That’s all that separates the models, business opportunity.

    If one soft drink company decides to go hard with EVO, then a car maker will follow, and a network will be in the future. 

    No worries. The time will come.

  • Anonymous

    Don’t give in to the naysaysers keep up the hype!

  • Anonymous

    Don’t give in to the naysaysers keep up the hype!

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/tsdcs TS

    Good article.  A few minor corrections, so that posterity may look more kindly upon it:

    *Under “Success stories between eSports and the FGC”
    -Stark contrast, and not start

    *Under “WCG 2005″
    Virtua Fighter, and not Virtual

    *Under “A consistent record of failure”
    -I believe you meant overstate and not understate.

    • http://twitter.com/BUSB00M Steve B

      Why don’t you write our articles instead of these guys who keep posting stupid stuff?

      • http://www.youtube.com/user/tsdcs TS

        Because I’m lazy and I only play old games, in roughly that order.

      • http://www.youtube.com/user/tsdcs TS

        Because I’m lazy and I only play old games, in roughly that order.

    • http://twitter.com/BUSB00M Steve B

      Why don’t you write our articles instead of these guys who keep posting stupid stuff?

    • http://twitter.com/BUSB00M Steve B

      Why don’t you write our articles instead of these guys who keep posting stupid stuff?

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/tsdcs TS

    Good article.  A few minor corrections, so that posterity may look more kindly upon it:

    *Under “Success stories between eSports and the FGC”
    -Stark contrast, and not start

    *Under “WCG 2005″
    Virtua Fighter, and not Virtual

    *Under “A consistent record of failure”
    -I believe you meant overstate and not understate.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

    As much as I respect the Starcraft community, basically their success story is theirs and ours is to be made by ourselves.

  • http://twitter.com/Alexisironman Alex Young

    FGC stream monsters eat each other alive lol.  I actually read a lot of the NEC streamchat on Sunday, something I don’t normally do. IT’S FUCKING INSANE. Racism, sexism, discrimination, bullying etc. People are straight EVIL. Did I laugh a lot….yes. 

  • http://twitter.com/Alexisironman Alex Young

    FGC stream monsters eat each other alive lol.  I actually read a lot of the NEC streamchat on Sunday, something I don’t normally do. IT’S FUCKING INSANE. Racism, sexism, discrimination, bullying etc. People are straight EVIL. Did I laugh a lot….yes. 

    • Anonymous

      That’s the internet and anonymity in general.

      • http://twitter.com/broccoman Jeff

        It still  looks bad in terms of sponsorship.  We really need to cut the worst of it out, and then cut some more after that. 

        • Nicolas Degli

          That’s why we have mod usually. We can’t do it because we haven’t even try. If the mods start doing their jobs it will be ok. That’s just an habit stream monsters need to take.

          • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

            I just want to step in here and stop the “if the mods do their jobs” bit. I’d like to see you try and stop hundreds of hatemongers spewing crap at top speed for HOURS on end. It’s a hard job and mods shouldn’t be the target of your aggression.

          • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

            I just want to step in here and stop the “if the mods do their jobs” bit. I’d like to see you try and stop hundreds of hatemongers spewing crap at top speed for HOURS on end. It’s a hard job and mods shouldn’t be the target of your aggression.

          • http://twitter.com/ChrisVazquez0 Chris Vazquez

            I just want to step in here and stop the “if the mods do their jobs” bit. I’d like to see you try and stop hundreds of hatemongers spewing crap at top speed for HOURS on end. It’s a hard job and mods shouldn’t be the target of your aggression.

    • Anonymous

      Have you seen a eSports chat ?

      Its like watching 2 old people talking about what they ate for lunch .

      Most the time I’ve been in those chats there’s a 1 – 2 min slow mode, there’s no real engagement between streamers / “Pro” players with the people watching the stream .

    • http://twitter.com/onReload onReload

      Stream chats are usually pretty bad, but like NguyenLmT said, it’s the internet. Listen instead, to what the players have to say, the commentators, the people who work at various game companies, the people behind tournaments, etc.

      • http://twitter.com/Alexisironman Alex Young

        I do listen to commentary and all that.  Like I said, I like the stream, except for the racism. People calling Ski a Ni###er and stuff like that bugs me. It happens a lot though.

      • http://twitter.com/Alexisironman Alex Young

        I do listen to commentary and all that.  Like I said, I like the stream, except for the racism. People calling Ski a Ni###er and stuff like that bugs me. It happens a lot though.

        • http://twitter.com/onReload onReload

          Yeah, it’s a pretty bad shitstorm during the bigger games – part of it is that, the bigger the audience, the bigger the chance someone ignorant will be on – and let’s not forget that a lot of these comments just come from some kid trying to get a reaction…Also, with a smaller audience, and a slower feed, real discussion is a lot more possible, as it’s harder to reprimand/praise people for their contributions when everything is flying by. I’ve seen decent discussion in stream chats, but only in ones with fewer viewers.

          • http://twitter.com/RxUrien Deepak Sharma

            To be honest, one of the reasons I tune into FG streams is for the stream chat. When was the last time you witnessed interaction between the chat and event organizers during, say, an SC2 major? I can’t think of one. 

            MaikkyWin makes a great point. Have you ever been in an SC2 chat? 
            Slow-mode lasts for 2  minutes, and there is no interaction between the broadcasters and stream viewers. Mods ban you at the slightest remark. Imagineif Spooky were like that. In every stream he involves the entire communitythat tunes in. People realize that FG streams are a place where theycan hang out, socialize, and watch awesome games. Sure there isa ton of questionable stuff said in chat, but that’s the internet for you. 

            Personally, I love the stream monsters and what they say because it’s the only thingthat makes me laugh constantly. We wouldn’t have terms like 8.95,bodied, exposed, free, downloaded etc. We wouldn’t have based god Jaha and Chris Matrix blowing up Unknown Titties/grab-a-titty squeeze/swaggity squeeze(during which I almost died laughing).

            As offensive as it may get for some, I wouldn’t want it any other way.Besides, if you don’t like it, you can turn chat off.

            P.S. – This is Rx :)

          • http://twitter.com/RxUrien Deepak Sharma

            To be honest, one of the reasons I tune into FG streams is for the stream chat. When was the last time you witnessed interaction between the chat and event organizers during, say, an SC2 major? I can’t think of one. 

            MaikkyWin makes a great point. Have you ever been in an SC2 chat? 
            Slow-mode lasts for 2  minutes, and there is no interaction between the broadcasters and stream viewers. Mods ban you at the slightest remark. Imagineif Spooky were like that. In every stream he involves the entire communitythat tunes in. People realize that FG streams are a place where theycan hang out, socialize, and watch awesome games. Sure there isa ton of questionable stuff said in chat, but that’s the internet for you. 

            Personally, I love the stream monsters and what they say because it’s the only thingthat makes me laugh constantly. We wouldn’t have terms like 8.95,bodied, exposed, free, downloaded etc. We wouldn’t have based god Jaha and Chris Matrix blowing up Unknown Titties/grab-a-titty squeeze/swaggity squeeze(during which I almost died laughing).

            As offensive as it may get for some, I wouldn’t want it any other way.Besides, if you don’t like it, you can turn chat off.

            P.S. – This is Rx :)

          • http://twitter.com/RxUrien Deepak Sharma

            To be honest, one of the reasons I tune into FG streams is for the stream chat. When was the last time you witnessed interaction between the chat and event organizers during, say, an SC2 major? I can’t think of one. 

            MaikkyWin makes a great point. Have you ever been in an SC2 chat? 
            Slow-mode lasts for 2  minutes, and there is no interaction between the broadcasters and stream viewers. Mods ban you at the slightest remark. Imagineif Spooky were like that. In every stream he involves the entire communitythat tunes in. People realize that FG streams are a place where theycan hang out, socialize, and watch awesome games. Sure there isa ton of questionable stuff said in chat, but that’s the internet for you. 

            Personally, I love the stream monsters and what they say because it’s the only thingthat makes me laugh constantly. We wouldn’t have terms like 8.95,bodied, exposed, free, downloaded etc. We wouldn’t have based god Jaha and Chris Matrix blowing up Unknown Titties/grab-a-titty squeeze/swaggity squeeze(during which I almost died laughing).

            As offensive as it may get for some, I wouldn’t want it any other way.Besides, if you don’t like it, you can turn chat off.

            P.S. – This is Rx :)

          • http://twitter.com/broccoman Jeff

            and none of that stuff comes from thuggish neanderthal talk, but from people being intelligent/witty/funny.

          • Anonymous

            Most of those terms were not invented by stream chat and in fact existed long before streams.

          • Anonymous

            Most of those terms were not invented by stream chat and in fact existed long before streams.

          • http://twitter.com/RxUrien Deepak Sharma

            @twitter-14212380:disqus  @drexciyan:disqus 
            All valid points. 

            Sorry about the spelling mistakes; I’m new to this commenting system.

          • http://twitter.com/RxUrien Deepak Sharma

            @twitter-14212380:disqus  @drexciyan:disqus 
            All valid points. 

            Sorry about the spelling mistakes; I’m new to this commenting system.

          • http://twitter.com/RxUrien Deepak Sharma

            @twitter-14212380:disqus  @drexciyan:disqus 
            All valid points. 

            Sorry about the spelling mistakes; I’m new to this commenting system.

          • https://twitter.com/BassM0nkey BassMonkey

            lol @ leaving the chat open that’s faster than light.

          • https://twitter.com/BassM0nkey BassMonkey

            lol @ leaving the chat open that’s faster than light.

          • https://twitter.com/BassM0nkey BassMonkey

            lol @ leaving the chat open that’s faster than light.

          • http://twitter.com/RxUrien Deepak Sharma

            To be honest, one of the reasons I tune into FG streams is for the stream chat. When was the last time you witnessed interaction between the chat and event organizers during, say, an SC2 major? I can’t think of one. 

            MaikkyWin makes a great point. Have you ever been in an SC2 chat? 
            Slow-mode lasts for 2  minutes, and there is no interaction between the broadcasters and stream viewers. Mods ban you at the slightest remark. Imagineif Spooky were like that. In every stream he involves the entire communitythat tunes in. People realize that FG streams are a place where theycan hang out, socialize, and watch awesome games. Sure there isa ton of questionable stuff said in chat, but that’s the internet for you. 

            Personally, I love the stream monsters and what they say because it’s the only thingthat makes me laugh constantly. We wouldn’t have terms like 8.95,bodied, exposed, free, downloaded etc. We wouldn’t have based god Jaha and Chris Matrix blowing up Unknown Titties/grab-a-titty squeeze/swaggity squeeze(during which I almost died laughing).

            As offensive as it may get for some, I wouldn’t want it any other way.Besides, if you don’t like it, you can turn chat off.

            P.S. – This is Rx :)

        • http://twitter.com/onReload onReload

          Yeah, it’s a pretty bad shitstorm during the bigger games – part of it is that, the bigger the audience, the bigger the chance someone ignorant will be on – and let’s not forget that a lot of these comments just come from some kid trying to get a reaction…Also, with a smaller audience, and a slower feed, real discussion is a lot more possible, as it’s harder to reprimand/praise people for their contributions when everything is flying by. I’ve seen decent discussion in stream chats, but only in ones with fewer viewers.

      • http://twitter.com/Alexisironman Alex Young

        I do listen to commentary and all that.  Like I said, I like the stream, except for the racism. People calling Ski a Ni###er and stuff like that bugs me. It happens a lot though.

      • http://twitter.com/Alexisironman Alex Young

        I do listen to commentary and all that.  Like I said, I like the stream, except for the racism. People calling Ski a Ni###er and stuff like that bugs me. It happens a lot though.

      • http://twitter.com/Alexisironman Alex Young

        I do listen to commentary and all that.  Like I said, I like the stream, except for the racism. People calling Ski a Ni###er and stuff like that bugs me. It happens a lot though.

    • http://twitter.com/onReload onReload

      Stream chats are usually pretty bad, but like NguyenLmT said, it’s the internet. Listen instead, to what the players have to say, the commentators, the people who work at various game companies, the people behind tournaments, etc.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Stream monsters for other streams are the same, in my experience. 

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Stream monsters for other streams are the same, in my experience. 

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Stream monsters for other streams are the same, in my experience. 

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Stream monsters for other streams are the same, in my experience. 

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Stream monsters for other streams are the same, in my experience. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Rivera/100000634687388 Christopher Rivera

        Yup, no matter the game its the same viewer. Sc2 as soon as incontrol comes in the room is spammed with fat jokes, as soon as a korean gets in its non stop gook jokes if they do not like the player. Welcome to the internet indeed!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Rivera/100000634687388 Christopher Rivera

        Yup, no matter the game its the same viewer. Sc2 as soon as incontrol comes in the room is spammed with fat jokes, as soon as a korean gets in its non stop gook jokes if they do not like the player. Welcome to the internet indeed!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Rivera/100000634687388 Christopher Rivera

        Yup, no matter the game its the same viewer. Sc2 as soon as incontrol comes in the room is spammed with fat jokes, as soon as a korean gets in its non stop gook jokes if they do not like the player. Welcome to the internet indeed!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Rivera/100000634687388 Christopher Rivera

        Yup, no matter the game its the same viewer. Sc2 as soon as incontrol comes in the room is spammed with fat jokes, as soon as a korean gets in its non stop gook jokes if they do not like the player. Welcome to the internet indeed!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Rivera/100000634687388 Christopher Rivera

        Yup, no matter the game its the same viewer. Sc2 as soon as incontrol comes in the room is spammed with fat jokes, as soon as a korean gets in its non stop gook jokes if they do not like the player. Welcome to the internet indeed!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Rivera/100000634687388 Christopher Rivera

        Yup, no matter the game its the same viewer. Sc2 as soon as incontrol comes in the room is spammed with fat jokes, as soon as a korean gets in its non stop gook jokes if they do not like the player. Welcome to the internet indeed!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Rivera/100000634687388 Christopher Rivera

        Yup, no matter the game its the same viewer. Sc2 as soon as incontrol comes in the room is spammed with fat jokes, as soon as a korean gets in its non stop gook jokes if they do not like the player. Welcome to the internet indeed!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Rivera/100000634687388 Christopher Rivera

        Yup, no matter the game its the same viewer. Sc2 as soon as incontrol comes in the room is spammed with fat jokes, as soon as a korean gets in its non stop gook jokes if they do not like the player. Welcome to the internet indeed!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Rivera/100000634687388 Christopher Rivera

        Yup, no matter the game its the same viewer. Sc2 as soon as incontrol comes in the room is spammed with fat jokes, as soon as a korean gets in its non stop gook jokes if they do not like the player. Welcome to the internet indeed!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Rivera/100000634687388 Christopher Rivera

        Yup, no matter the game its the same viewer. Sc2 as soon as incontrol comes in the room is spammed with fat jokes, as soon as a korean gets in its non stop gook jokes if they do not like the player. Welcome to the internet indeed!

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Stream monsters for other streams are the same, in my experience. 

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Q5JUJO4E36GYHZFWX4BL72OT6I P S

      First thing I do when starting up a tournament stream is click the little “popout” button in the viewing window then close the page behind it.

    • http://twitter.com/GrapeATL Grape 포도 약탈품

      Have you never watched a Sc2 stream? It’s just as bad if not worse since there’s usually a bigger audience and therefore more idiots.

  • http://twitter.com/Alexisironman Alex Young

    FGC stream monsters eat each other alive lol.  I actually read a lot of the NEC streamchat on Sunday, something I don’t normally do. IT’S FUCKING INSANE. Racism, sexism, discrimination, bullying etc. People are straight EVIL. Did I laugh a lot….yes. 

  • http://twitter.com/Alexisironman Alex Young

    FGC stream monsters eat each other alive lol.  I actually read a lot of the NEC streamchat on Sunday, something I don’t normally do. IT’S FUCKING INSANE. Racism, sexism, discrimination, bullying etc. People are straight EVIL. Did I laugh a lot….yes. 

  • http://twitter.com/Alexisironman Alex Young

    FGC stream monsters eat each other alive lol.  I actually read a lot of the NEC streamchat on Sunday, something I don’t normally do. IT’S FUCKING INSANE. Racism, sexism, discrimination, bullying etc. People are straight EVIL. Did I laugh a lot….yes. 

  • http://twitter.com/Alexisironman Alex Young

    FGC stream monsters eat each other alive lol.  I actually read a lot of the NEC streamchat on Sunday, something I don’t normally do. IT’S FUCKING INSANE. Racism, sexism, discrimination, bullying etc. People are straight EVIL. Did I laugh a lot….yes. 

  • Anonymous

    Excellent read.
    Fight the power, we (the fcg) are somebody.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=560900881 En Sabah Nur

    Marvel is too hood, they’ll never understand.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=560900881 En Sabah Nur

    Marvel is too hood, they’ll never understand.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=560900881 En Sabah Nur

    Marvel is too hood, they’ll never understand.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=8230518 Mark Wins

      lololol. it’s amazing how true this is. 
      but that’s the point that someone else made in terms of the feel between the FGC and the eSports… where as eSports was created via LAN and Internet, the FGC was created via arcades (in the hood) and home consoles (where people from the hood could get together and play).

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=560900881 En Sabah Nur

    Marvel is too hood, they’ll never understand.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=560900881 En Sabah Nur

    Marvel is too hood, they’ll never understand.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=560900881 En Sabah Nur

    Marvel is too hood, they’ll never understand.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=560900881 En Sabah Nur

    Marvel is too hood, they’ll never understand.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=560900881 En Sabah Nur

    Marvel is too hood, they’ll never understand.

  • http://twitter.com/Alexisironman Alex Young

    Also, i don’t think we care about them, and they don’t care about us. We really don’t need to learn from each other or get along at all.  They have bigger numbers, we have bigger hype, period. There’s too many judgmental teenagers on both sides to not have a huge degree of negativity tossed in almost every direction anyway, at least from the internet side if things.

  • http://twitter.com/RobertEspailla1 Robert Espaillat

    If They Dont Want 2 Take Us Fuck Then I Love My Hype

  • http://twitter.com/RobertEspailla1 Robert Espaillat

    If They Dont Want 2 Take Us Fuck Then I Love My Hype

  • http://twitter.com/RobertEspailla1 Robert Espaillat

    If They Dont Want 2 Take Us Fuck Then I Love My Hype

  • http://twitter.com/RobertEspailla1 Robert Espaillat

    If They Dont Want 2 Take Us Fuck Then I Love My Hype

  • http://twitter.com/RobertEspailla1 Robert Espaillat

    If They Dont Want 2 Take Us Fuck Then I Love My Hype

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/tsdcs TS

    It is also worth pointing out that fighting games survived (and even thrived) for well over a decade both competitively and in terms of tournaments- with zero sponsorship of any kind, even by game developers (ESPECIALLY not by game developers, in the case of Capcom USA).

    So while I don’t intend to sound all elitist and start talking about who is “legit” and who is a sellout, the fighting game genre has proven it’s bona fides better than most (if not all others) as far as the hardcore players are concerned.

    I would suggest that e-sports leagues take this into consideration.  I mean, assuming they can tell the difference.

    • Anonymous

      Neither Brood War nor CS 1.6 had ANY support whatsoever from their respective developers. Fighting games aren’t the only ones that managed to survive on their own…

      • http://twitter.com/ICarrotU Ron Fuentes

        Yup, every genre and many games have had their own struggles and mishaps with tournaments and even developers (Kespa and Blizzard), but what they’ve done is /keep/ trying, while it seems the FGC just said “fuck it” and turned it’s back. There’s been quite a few notable tourneys that took shitty games instead of real competitive ones, or tourneys that didn’t pay players a dime, but after continued mediation the people that KNOW THEIR SHIT with these games are the ones that are hired to help run these things. Do you think some suit helps run HoN? No Breakycpk and Phil, notable figures in the community are admins for NASL’s hon tourney. It’s like this for every game in MLG (well maybe not Black Ops, but noone watches that shit anyway). They got there from perseverance and giving a damn about getting their players and their passion to where it deserves to be.

    • Anonymous

      Neither Brood War nor CS 1.6 had ANY support whatsoever from their respective developers. Fighting games aren’t the only ones that managed to survive on their own…

    • Anonymous

      Neither Brood War nor CS 1.6 had ANY support whatsoever from their respective developers. Fighting games aren’t the only ones that managed to survive on their own…

    • http://twitter.com/iAngelos Tim Brown

      Good stuff

    • http://twitter.com/iAngelos Tim Brown

      Good stuff

    • http://twitter.com/iAngelos Tim Brown

      Good stuff

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/tsdcs TS

    It is also worth pointing out that fighting games survived (and even thrived) for well over a decade both competitively and in terms of tournaments- with zero sponsorship of any kind, even by game developers (ESPECIALLY not by game developers, in the case of Capcom USA).

    So while I don’t intend to sound all elitist and start talking about who is “legit” and who is a sellout, the fighting game genre has proven it’s bona fides better than most (if not all others) as far as the hardcore players are concerned.

    I would suggest that e-sports leagues take this into consideration.  I mean, assuming they can tell the difference.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/tsdcs TS

    It is also worth pointing out that fighting games survived (and even thrived) for well over a decade both competitively and in terms of tournaments- with zero sponsorship of any kind, even by game developers (ESPECIALLY not by game developers, in the case of Capcom USA).

    So while I don’t intend to sound all elitist and start talking about who is “legit” and who is a sellout, the fighting game genre has proven it’s bona fides better than most (if not all others) as far as the hardcore players are concerned.

    I would suggest that e-sports leagues take this into consideration.  I mean, assuming they can tell the difference.

  • http://twitter.com/ShinAkuma204 ShinAkuma204

    In classic FGC terms….good shit!

  • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

    Shoutouts to Triforce and Empire Arcadia, the OG sponsor for the FGC players

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ivan-Noltenius/839150149 Ivan Noltenius

    Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t Starcraft events basically only invite-only events where they fly in in an elite, small group of top players from around the world? That’s very different from what the FGC does, which is run tournaments where anyone can enter and often hundreds of people do. The Starcraft/LoL/etc and FG events are very different in how they are run in the first place.

    • Anonymous

      Some are invite-based (like DreamHack, which had ~60 invited players and a handful of qualified ones), but most high-prestige events are open: the GSL, MLG, and IEM.

      • Max Wasserman

        However, most of those tournaments still give ridiculously beneficial draws to invitees. At MLG Providence, somebody coming through the open bracket had to win about 13 or more matches to get to grand finals. HuK had to win 3.

        • Anonymous

          First of all those weren’t invitees, those were seeds that were gained by performing well at previous events during the season.

          Second, Leenock won despite coming through the open bracket. It’s not as big of an obstacle as people are making it out to be.

          • Max Wasserman

            They got those “seeds” from preforming well in the previous MLG events, to which they were invited and given group stage spots which automatically entered them into the top 30 finishers.

            And yes, Leenock did win coming through the open bracket. However, just imagine an Evo where all the sponsored players like Filipino Champ and Ricky Ortiz get 80 byes because they travel to the most events, while great players that can’t travel as much due to lack of disposable income and free time have to start from round one. Not so good.

            That’s what’s great about the way the FGC runs tournaments. Everybody is equal, be they scrub or Krone. I’d hate to lose that.

          • Anonymous

            Except for the one-time Korean invites, there was no inviting going on. And almost all of those Koreans ended up in the open bracket anyway. Initial seeding was based on the results from the previous season, which against was not influenced by any invites.

            If the FGC embraced money a bit, the “less disposable income” situation wouldn’t arise in the first place: it would be a given that these players would be flown to every single event by their teams.

          • Max Wasserman

            I’d say most of those Koreans that were invited didn’t end up in the open bracket, but again, that’s besides the point. The point is that sort of bracket would be bad for the FGC and be INSANELY UNFAIR. Might as well just be a class system.

            The fighting game scene can’t embrace money. They say you have to spend money to make money and the FGC can’t really afford to spend it. To get into StarCraft, you have to be well-off and have the money to spend on a top quality rig and internet and keyboard and mouse and headphones and even those stupid eyeglasses. You also have to have enough free time (i.e. time not at a job) to get good at StarCraft since games just take a lot longer.  Fighting games are made for poorer people. Just need a system. Stick not necessarily required.

            And I’m not just talking about the fairly well-known players with sponsors who may have to play ~50 extra games in a major tournament bracket if MLG’s system is adopted. There’s hundreds if not thousands of great players in SF and Marvel that you’ve never ever heard of because they just can’t afford to make it to events. And unlike with StarCraft 2, where just getting really high on the ladder can get you noticed, the same system isn’t in place for fighting games.

            Everybody would like to “embrace” money and become sponsored and fly around the world, but for 98% (so as not to be cliche) of the fighting game scene, “embracing” money is something we can’t afford.

          • Max Wasserman

            I’d say most of those Koreans that were invited didn’t end up in the open bracket, but again, that’s besides the point. The point is that sort of bracket would be bad for the FGC and be INSANELY UNFAIR. Might as well just be a class system.

            The fighting game scene can’t embrace money. They say you have to spend money to make money and the FGC can’t really afford to spend it. To get into StarCraft, you have to be well-off and have the money to spend on a top quality rig and internet and keyboard and mouse and headphones and even those stupid eyeglasses. You also have to have enough free time (i.e. time not at a job) to get good at StarCraft since games just take a lot longer.  Fighting games are made for poorer people. Just need a system. Stick not necessarily required.

            And I’m not just talking about the fairly well-known players with sponsors who may have to play ~50 extra games in a major tournament bracket if MLG’s system is adopted. There’s hundreds if not thousands of great players in SF and Marvel that you’ve never ever heard of because they just can’t afford to make it to events. And unlike with StarCraft 2, where just getting really high on the ladder can get you noticed, the same system isn’t in place for fighting games.

            Everybody would like to “embrace” money and become sponsored and fly around the world, but for 98% (so as not to be cliche) of the fighting game scene, “embracing” money is something we can’t afford.

          • Anonymous

            You do realize that at EVO, players are seeded based performance in tournaments in the EVO Championship Series.

          • Nick Westphal

            Uh, what? They weren’t invited to quite a few of those MLG events. I went to MLG Dallas earlier this year and played InControl my second match, and he had to beat some scrub like me his first game. And I also don’t understand your comment about fighting games being “poor” while SC is “rich”. You don’t need a great rig to play SC2, and you certainly don’t need one if you want to play BW. It also takes just as much time and effort to get to a pro-level in fighting games as to get pro-level in SC. It’s not like you see a ton of pad players who just play casually show up at evo and stomp face, you see players who practiced their ass off do it, just like SC. 

          • Nick Westphal

            Uh, what? They weren’t invited to quite a few of those MLG events. I went to MLG Dallas earlier this year and played InControl my second match, and he had to beat some scrub like me his first game. And I also don’t understand your comment about fighting games being “poor” while SC is “rich”. You don’t need a great rig to play SC2, and you certainly don’t need one if you want to play BW. It also takes just as much time and effort to get to a pro-level in fighting games as to get pro-level in SC. It’s not like you see a ton of pad players who just play casually show up at evo and stomp face, you see players who practiced their ass off do it, just like SC. 

          • Nick Westphal

            Uh, what? They weren’t invited to quite a few of those MLG events. I went to MLG Dallas earlier this year and played InControl my second match, and he had to beat some scrub like me his first game. And I also don’t understand your comment about fighting games being “poor” while SC is “rich”. You don’t need a great rig to play SC2, and you certainly don’t need one if you want to play BW. It also takes just as much time and effort to get to a pro-level in fighting games as to get pro-level in SC. It’s not like you see a ton of pad players who just play casually show up at evo and stomp face, you see players who practiced their ass off do it, just like SC. 

          • Nick Westphal

            Uh, what? They weren’t invited to quite a few of those MLG events. I went to MLG Dallas earlier this year and played InControl my second match, and he had to beat some scrub like me his first game. And I also don’t understand your comment about fighting games being “poor” while SC is “rich”. You don’t need a great rig to play SC2, and you certainly don’t need one if you want to play BW. It also takes just as much time and effort to get to a pro-level in fighting games as to get pro-level in SC. It’s not like you see a ton of pad players who just play casually show up at evo and stomp face, you see players who practiced their ass off do it, just like SC. 

          • Anonymous

            ya but what about the evo qualifiers that gives players who travel to these qualifiers seed points which is what you are saying about the byes. It’s already like that when it comes to evo and top players get to play less matches cause they are seeded above other people who cant afford to go to evo qualifiers.

        • Anonymous

          First of all those weren’t invitees, those were seeds that were gained by performing well at previous events during the season.

          Second, Leenock won despite coming through the open bracket. It’s not as big of an obstacle as people are making it out to be.

    • Anonymous

      Some are invite-based (like DreamHack, which had ~60 invited players and a handful of qualified ones), but most high-prestige events are open: the GSL, MLG, and IEM.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      I think a lot have open brackets where the people who win that get placed. So, not closed, AFAIK.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      I think a lot have open brackets where the people who win that get placed. So, not closed, AFAIK.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      I think a lot have open brackets where the people who win that get placed. So, not closed, AFAIK.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Cannon/701758565 Tom Cannon

      This is exactly what I’m getting at.  That format makes sense for them, but they have different goals.  

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Cannon/701758565 Tom Cannon

      This is exactly what I’m getting at.  That format makes sense for them, but they have different goals.  

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Cannon/701758565 Tom Cannon

      This is exactly what I’m getting at.  That format makes sense for them, but they have different goals.  

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Cannon/701758565 Tom Cannon

      This is exactly what I’m getting at.  That format makes sense for them, but they have different goals.  

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Cannon/701758565 Tom Cannon

      This is exactly what I’m getting at.  That format makes sense for them, but they have different goals.  

    • http://www.facebook.com/creth Grant Pearson

      This isn’t true at all. The GSL the hardest and most prestigious SC2 league has an huge open tourney every month to get new people into it. You just probably aren’t going to make it if you’re not already on a pro team.

    • hyerty

      Actually one time there was an invite based event that only had the likes of Alex Valle, Ricky Ortiz, Justin Wong…and the community cried about it basically.

    • hyerty

      Actually one time there was an invite based event that only had the likes of Alex Valle, Ricky Ortiz, Justin Wong…and the community cried about it basically.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Peter-Holder/100000430038925 Peter Holder

    You hit the nail on the head: Hype. Don’t get me wrong, I love watching some Starcraft 2 and I enjoyed watching Dreamhack and various other ‘e-sports’ streams throughout this year, but nothing, NOTHING, compares to EVO 2011. I was up at 5am watching Poongko destroy Daigo and I almost woke up the neighbours, hype cannot be contained. Starcraft is exciting, but it doesn’t have that atmosphere. I don’t feel like I can shout out when I see a player hold of a crazy 6-pool, instead I golf clap. In fact, during Dreamhack, they streamed the GFs for Quake, and for me personally that was the most hype thing all weekend. First time watching that game and it blew my mind. 

    But to get back to the point, I’m sure I’m not the only one who sat through the AE finals at DH and felt very awkward. Props to the commentators for giving it their best shot, but the atmosphere just…it was so static and rigid I felt. I was even saying to myself that I hoped I’d never see the FGC progress to that kind of stage, it doesn’t represent who we are at all. Every single FG being played at the current moment can generate mad hype, every single one. We need to stop hating one each other’s preferences and support each other in building up what we have. EVO pulled in the crazy numbers it did for a reason.

    • http://www.facebook.com/man.kat Grant Mankat Manwarren

      I couldn’t agree with you more because I was also shouting when Poongko destroyed Daigo. Given it wasn’t 5am where I live. On the Starcraft note, it gets better when you watch it with someone else. Watching someone defend a 6 pool is boring (because you know who will win), but when you watch a 45 minute TvT match that had gone into Macro mode 20 minutes before hand was freaking awesome.

    • http://www.facebook.com/man.kat Grant Mankat Manwarren

      I couldn’t agree with you more because I was also shouting when Poongko destroyed Daigo. Given it wasn’t 5am where I live. On the Starcraft note, it gets better when you watch it with someone else. Watching someone defend a 6 pool is boring (because you know who will win), but when you watch a 45 minute TvT match that had gone into Macro mode 20 minutes before hand was freaking awesome.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Peter-Holder/100000430038925 Peter Holder

    You hit the nail on the head: Hype. Don’t get me wrong, I love watching some Starcraft 2 and I enjoyed watching Dreamhack and various other ‘e-sports’ streams throughout this year, but nothing, NOTHING, compares to EVO 2011. I was up at 5am watching Poongko destroy Daigo and I almost woke up the neighbours, hype cannot be contained. Starcraft is exciting, but it doesn’t have that atmosphere. I don’t feel like I can shout out when I see a player hold of a crazy 6-pool, instead I golf clap. In fact, during Dreamhack, they streamed the GFs for Quake, and for me personally that was the most hype thing all weekend. First time watching that game and it blew my mind. 

    But to get back to the point, I’m sure I’m not the only one who sat through the AE finals at DH and felt very awkward. Props to the commentators for giving it their best shot, but the atmosphere just…it was so static and rigid I felt. I was even saying to myself that I hoped I’d never see the FGC progress to that kind of stage, it doesn’t represent who we are at all. Every single FG being played at the current moment can generate mad hype, every single one. We need to stop hating one each other’s preferences and support each other in building up what we have. EVO pulled in the crazy numbers it did for a reason.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Peter-Holder/100000430038925 Peter Holder

    You hit the nail on the head: Hype. Don’t get me wrong, I love watching some Starcraft 2 and I enjoyed watching Dreamhack and various other ‘e-sports’ streams throughout this year, but nothing, NOTHING, compares to EVO 2011. I was up at 5am watching Poongko destroy Daigo and I almost woke up the neighbours, hype cannot be contained. Starcraft is exciting, but it doesn’t have that atmosphere. I don’t feel like I can shout out when I see a player hold of a crazy 6-pool, instead I golf clap. In fact, during Dreamhack, they streamed the GFs for Quake, and for me personally that was the most hype thing all weekend. First time watching that game and it blew my mind. 

    But to get back to the point, I’m sure I’m not the only one who sat through the AE finals at DH and felt very awkward. Props to the commentators for giving it their best shot, but the atmosphere just…it was so static and rigid I felt. I was even saying to myself that I hoped I’d never see the FGC progress to that kind of stage, it doesn’t represent who we are at all. Every single FG being played at the current moment can generate mad hype, every single one. We need to stop hating one each other’s preferences and support each other in building up what we have. EVO pulled in the crazy numbers it did for a reason.

  • http://twitter.com/FishStix Ben Goldhaber

    * WCG: It is a commonly known fact that games get into the WCG circuit by sponsoring their way in. I’m not 100% certain, but I am confident that Capcom didn’t make the investments to pay WCG while the DoA developers did. 

    * MLG has changed for the better in many ways. I suggest you let bygones be bygones. 
     
    * The CGS was a blunder all around.

    The models and leagues you are hung up on are frankly out of date, and do NOT represent the “eSports industry” of 2012.  

    “ To date these eSports leagues continue their policy of zero-engagement with the FGC, the very gamers they are supposedly trying to cater to.”

    I know for a fact that many tournament organizers from the pro-gaming or eSports scene have reached out to both Capcom and fighting game community organizers, usually ending in a dead end…

    I would additionally be wary to speaking about “the traditional Esports model” simply because there is no such thing. We are all in a very similar niche, doing essentially the same things with different games. We all want to make competitive gaming a viable industry and profession (or, at least I do). So can we please just work together?

    ~fishstix

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      I dont know if I agree or not, but yay for actual discussion with actual points instead of just a “Yay!” or “Boo!” like most of the comments.

    • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

      fishstix keeping it real, I fully support this man’s attempt to make the world better for fans of all competitive gaming such as myself.   Capcom really does have a lot of responsibility in this and they are silent to the public right?

      • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

        Capcom is hands off for the most part, you need to talk to people who play the games about supporting them.

    • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

      fishstix keeping it real, I fully support this man’s attempt to make the world better for fans of all competitive gaming such as myself.   Capcom really does have a lot of responsibility in this and they are silent to the public right?

    • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

      fishstix keeping it real, I fully support this man’s attempt to make the world better for fans of all competitive gaming such as myself.   Capcom really does have a lot of responsibility in this and they are silent to the public right?

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

      “It is astonishing how little support from the mainstream FGC DreamHack’s
      have gotten, considering the prize pool and scope of the event every
      year.”

      Lol it’s not about the $$$

    • http://twitter.com/ICarrotU Ron Fuentes

      Fishstix knows what’s up, couldn’t have put it better myself.

    • http://twitter.com/ICarrotU Ron Fuentes

      Fishstix knows what’s up, couldn’t have put it better myself.

    • hyerty

      Didn’t the host of the event call fighting gamers “button mashers”? Just because there is money involved, you expect people to be disrespected by people who have no understanding of the community…well that’s not going to happen.

      • Anonymous

        The host was simply a twat that was out of his depth handling a live crowd and so attempted to appease by being funny. He said similarly inane things about all the games/competitors.

      • Anonymous

        The host was simply a twat that was out of his depth handling a live crowd and so attempted to appease by being funny. He said similarly inane things about all the games/competitors.

      • Anonymous

        The host was simply a twat that was out of his depth handling a live crowd and so attempted to appease by being funny. He said similarly inane things about all the games/competitors.

      • Anonymous

        The host was simply a twat that was out of his depth handling a live crowd and so attempted to appease by being funny. He said similarly inane things about all the games/competitors.

      • Anonymous

        The host was simply a twat that was out of his depth handling a live crowd and so attempted to appease by being funny. He said similarly inane things about all the games/competitors.

      • Anonymous

        The host was simply a twat that was out of his depth handling a live crowd and so attempted to appease by being funny. He said similarly inane things about all the games/competitors.

      • http://twitter.com/FishStix Ben Goldhaber

        that host had NOTHING to do with eSports.

      • http://twitter.com/FishStix Ben Goldhaber

        that host had NOTHING to do with eSports.

      • http://twitter.com/FishStix Ben Goldhaber

        that host had NOTHING to do with eSports.

    • hyerty

      Didn’t the host of the event call fighting gamers “button mashers”? Just because there is money involved, you expect people to be disrespected by people who have no understanding of the community…well that’s not going to happen.

    • http://twitter.com/Huw_Dawson Huw Dawson

      EU is treated as irrelevent by most US pro FGC members. Simple fact, that this article is happy to ignore so Armshouse can get attacked for – yes – doing things differently to US streams. Armshouse is about hype, US SF4 commentary is about making a boring game even more boring.
      Very sad that Dreamhack was brought up in general TBH, apparently it was a really good event all around other than an idiot MC.

    • http://twitter.com/Huw_Dawson Huw Dawson

      EU is treated as irrelevent by most US pro FGC members. Simple fact, that this article is happy to ignore so Armshouse can get attacked for – yes – doing things differently to US streams. Armshouse is about hype, US SF4 commentary is about making a boring game even more boring.
      Very sad that Dreamhack was brought up in general TBH, apparently it was a really good event all around other than an idiot MC.

  • http://twitter.com/FishStix Ben Goldhaber

    * WCG: It is a commonly known fact that games get into the WCG circuit by sponsoring their way in. I’m not 100% certain, but I am confident that Capcom didn’t make the investments to pay WCG while the DoA developers did. 

    * MLG has changed for the better in many ways. I suggest you let bygones be bygones. 
     
    * The CGS was a blunder all around.

    The models and leagues you are hung up on are frankly out of date, and do NOT represent the “eSports industry” of 2012.  

    “ To date these eSports leagues continue their policy of zero-engagement with the FGC, the very gamers they are supposedly trying to cater to.”

    I know for a fact that many tournament organizers from the pro-gaming or eSports scene have reached out to both Capcom and fighting game community organizers, usually ending in a dead end…

    I would additionally be wary to speaking about “the traditional Esports model” simply because there is no such thing. We are all in a very similar niche, doing essentially the same things with different games. We all want to make competitive gaming a viable industry and profession (or, at least I do). So can we please just work together?

    ~fishstix

  • Anonymous

    If I remember correctly, when Evo paired with MLG and MLG stuffed the FGC in the corner, MLG had problems with the FGC hype.  They said that the FGC was too loud, and that MLG players were complaining that they couldn’t concentrate.  It was stupid.

    Of course, I could be thinking of something else entirely.  But I’m pretty certain I am remembering this correctly.

  • Anonymous

    If I remember correctly, when Evo paired with MLG and MLG stuffed the FGC in the corner, MLG had problems with the FGC hype.  They said that the FGC was too loud, and that MLG players were complaining that they couldn’t concentrate.  It was stupid.

    Of course, I could be thinking of something else entirely.  But I’m pretty certain I am remembering this correctly.

  • Anonymous

    If I remember correctly, when Evo paired with MLG and MLG stuffed the FGC in the corner, MLG had problems with the FGC hype.  They said that the FGC was too loud, and that MLG players were complaining that they couldn’t concentrate.  It was stupid.

    Of course, I could be thinking of something else entirely.  But I’m pretty certain I am remembering this correctly.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

      Well considering you get shitloads of blacks yelling and screaming anytime ANYTHING happens, yeah yall do get loud as fuck

      try playing starcraft or a shooter with people screaming GET BODIED SOOOOOOOOOOOOOON WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH at the top of their lungs and see how well you do

      • Anonymous

        Fighting games take concentration as well.  This was clearly a case of people whining because they lost.

      • Anonymous

        If your going to try to become pro at something you better be used to distractions and shit talking all the time.

      • Anonymous

        If your going to try to become pro at something you better be used to distractions and shit talking all the time.

      • Anonymous

        If your going to try to become pro at something you better be used to distractions and shit talking all the time.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

      Well considering you get shitloads of blacks yelling and screaming anytime ANYTHING happens, yeah yall do get loud as fuck

      try playing starcraft or a shooter with people screaming GET BODIED SOOOOOOOOOOOOOON WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH at the top of their lungs and see how well you do

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

      Well considering you get shitloads of blacks yelling and screaming anytime ANYTHING happens, yeah yall do get loud as fuck

      try playing starcraft or a shooter with people screaming GET BODIED SOOOOOOOOOOOOOON WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH at the top of their lungs and see how well you do

    • Christopher Wrightson

      Yeah it’s true. I went to MLG in D.C. 2010 For Smash Bros with my friend who went for Tekken 6 and out of everyone in the crowd, our group of attendees out-volumed the rest of the room by far when exciting things went down. Which is funny because both swag shop, Tekken 6 location AND smash bros. locations were both placed in the left corner to the entrance and took up maybe 1/8 of the space for the entire room. I’m from Jersey but I gotta admit that The Atlanta crew for Tekken REALLY knows how to bring the hype lol. Anakin/ATL Hoa all day.

    • Christopher Wrightson

      Yeah it’s true. I went to MLG in D.C. 2010 For Smash Bros with my friend who went for Tekken 6 and out of everyone in the crowd, our group of attendees out-volumed the rest of the room by far when exciting things went down. Which is funny because both swag shop, Tekken 6 location AND smash bros. locations were both placed in the left corner to the entrance and took up maybe 1/8 of the space for the entire room. I’m from Jersey but I gotta admit that The Atlanta crew for Tekken REALLY knows how to bring the hype lol. Anakin/ATL Hoa all day.

    • Christopher Wrightson

      Yeah it’s true. I went to MLG in D.C. 2010 For Smash Bros with my friend who went for Tekken 6 and out of everyone in the crowd, our group of attendees out-volumed the rest of the room by far when exciting things went down. Which is funny because both swag shop, Tekken 6 location AND smash bros. locations were both placed in the left corner to the entrance and took up maybe 1/8 of the space for the entire room. I’m from Jersey but I gotta admit that The Atlanta crew for Tekken REALLY knows how to bring the hype lol. Anakin/ATL Hoa all day.

  • Kyle G

    Do we really care if the community ever gets as big as MLG?

    I just want to play games, I don’t give a shit if other people can make a living from it or not

    • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

      People seem to enjoy events on the scale of EVO.  Why wouldn’t you support something similar (of course smaller) more frequently throughout the year?  When I watch monthly majors on east/west coast nobody starts to get upset if the attendance or stream numbers get over a certain number; in general more is better no?   Letting pros and commentators be dedicated full time and have actual sponsorships and contracts would facilitate this.

    • http://twitter.com/KenAdamsNSA Adriaan Noordzij

      Agreed, I like the FGC the way it is. Why try to shoehorn it into something it is not and absolutely should not be?

    • http://twitter.com/ICarrotU Ron Fuentes

      Marn’s reply to looking at MLG was “I got into the wrong game..” and “FGC has EVO once a year, but SC2 has their EVO every month”. You can’t honestly think that he’s the only pro that thinks this way.

      Yeah maybe for some casuals and spectators, it ain’t about the money, or the scale of events, but you can be damn sure that with all the time many of the pros put into the game, they’d take an increase of prize pools, sponsors, events and scale of them. Personally, I think it’s shitty when a pro can’t show up to ‘x’ event cause they got to work or they just have to stop completely because they don’t have the time or money to continue playing. I wanna keep seeing Wong v Daigo or Poongko or Tokido or whoever else and not hear that he’s gotta go grill some burgers because he’s paying 300 bucks to fly out to an event only to win 400.

  • Kyle G

    Do we really care if the community ever gets as big as MLG?

    I just want to play games, I don’t give a shit if other people can make a living from it or not

  • Kyle G

    Do we really care if the community ever gets as big as MLG?

    I just want to play games, I don’t give a shit if other people can make a living from it or not

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mikhail-Aristotle-Snake-Fridman/194307390 Mikhail Aristotle-Snake Fridma

    I think it’s worth noting that developers of SC2 and League of Legends actually reach out to gaming leagues and work with them constantly. This doesn’t happen with FGC. Sure Capcom shows up at EVO and such, but I’m not sure how much they really contribute outside of selling us their games. 

    I absolutely agree with this article. The FGC has built up it’s own tournaments and runs them incredibly well, if not better than other gaming leagues. Capcom owes this community a lot of credit because it’s the only reason Capcom isn’t dead in the water yet (no one fucking buy Resident Evil or… what else does Capcom make again =P). Capcom doesn’t back it’s community the way other companies do with their games. And I feel like that’s one of the biggest problems with this scene.

    • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

      A major factor in this discussion is that Capcom is not only inactive, they actually actively work to prevent the types of sponsorship models that have proven successful in StarCraft/etc. (or that’s the impression I get from the parties involved)

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mikhail-Aristotle-Snake-Fridman/194307390 Mikhail Aristotle-Snake Fridma

        I wouldn’t go so far as to say Capcom is ACTIVELY sabotaging the competitive scene of their games. But I will say that their relationship with the community is grossly one sided. They don’t listen to the community. They don’t contribute to it. They don’t foster its growth. When they show up to our events, it’s only to promote further products. To make sure their only customer base is still there. And they know that this community is the only pool of consumers that generate revenue for them… and they do nothing but milk it for every penny they can.

        • http://twitter.com/broccoman Jeff

          The only counter to that would be ultimately, for the community to start making games for the community themselves- maybe stuff like Skullgirls.

          That may be a pipe dream, but it can be done.

        • http://twitter.com/broccoman Jeff

          The only counter to that would be ultimately, for the community to start making games for the community themselves- maybe stuff like Skullgirls.

          That may be a pipe dream, but it can be done.

        • http://twitter.com/broccoman Jeff

          The only counter to that would be ultimately, for the community to start making games for the community themselves- maybe stuff like Skullgirls.

          That may be a pipe dream, but it can be done.

        • http://twitter.com/broccoman Jeff

          The only counter to that would be ultimately, for the community to start making games for the community themselves- maybe stuff like Skullgirls.

          That may be a pipe dream, but it can be done.

        • http://twitter.com/broccoman Jeff

          The only counter to that would be ultimately, for the community to start making games for the community themselves- maybe stuff like Skullgirls.

          That may be a pipe dream, but it can be done.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mikhail-Aristotle-Snake-Fridman/194307390 Mikhail Aristotle-Snake Fridma

        I wouldn’t go so far as to say Capcom is ACTIVELY sabotaging the competitive scene of their games. But I will say that their relationship with the community is grossly one sided. They don’t listen to the community. They don’t contribute to it. They don’t foster its growth. When they show up to our events, it’s only to promote further products. To make sure their only customer base is still there. And they know that this community is the only pool of consumers that generate revenue for them… and they do nothing but milk it for every penny they can.

    • Anonymous

      I don’t think they’re run that well. The weekly events go too late, we saw the grand finals of the premier fighting game at this weekend’s major being run after midnight on a Sunday evening, I can’t consider that an event run well.

      What should be the “prime time” matchups are being run at a time when viewers and attendees are down

    • Anonymous

      I don’t think they’re run that well. The weekly events go too late, we saw the grand finals of the premier fighting game at this weekend’s major being run after midnight on a Sunday evening, I can’t consider that an event run well.

      What should be the “prime time” matchups are being run at a time when viewers and attendees are down

    • Anonymous

      I don’t think they’re run that well. The weekly events go too late, we saw the grand finals of the premier fighting game at this weekend’s major being run after midnight on a Sunday evening, I can’t consider that an event run well.

      What should be the “prime time” matchups are being run at a time when viewers and attendees are down

    • Anonymous

      I don’t think they’re run that well. The weekly events go too late, we saw the grand finals of the premier fighting game at this weekend’s major being run after midnight on a Sunday evening, I can’t consider that an event run well.

      What should be the “prime time” matchups are being run at a time when viewers and attendees are down

    • Anonymous

      I don’t think they’re run that well. The weekly events go too late, we saw the grand finals of the premier fighting game at this weekend’s major being run after midnight on a Sunday evening, I can’t consider that an event run well.

      What should be the “prime time” matchups are being run at a time when viewers and attendees are down

      • http://www.facebook.com/lorander.moody Lorander Moody

        I agree on this point.

        I live in Texas and Guard Crush, The Break, WNF, Starbase Arcade, etc. all run way too late for me. I’m always disappointed I can never catch these streams, but I have a job to go to in the morning.

        I don’t know how this can be helped though as you have to work around the schedules of the players. More punctuality would help in the FGC though.

      • http://www.facebook.com/lorander.moody Lorander Moody

        I agree on this point.

        I live in Texas and Guard Crush, The Break, WNF, Starbase Arcade, etc. all run way too late for me. I’m always disappointed I can never catch these streams, but I have a job to go to in the morning.

        I don’t know how this can be helped though as you have to work around the schedules of the players. More punctuality would help in the FGC though.

      • http://www.facebook.com/lorander.moody Lorander Moody

        I agree on this point.

        I live in Texas and Guard Crush, The Break, WNF, Starbase Arcade, etc. all run way too late for me. I’m always disappointed I can never catch these streams, but I have a job to go to in the morning.

        I don’t know how this can be helped though as you have to work around the schedules of the players. More punctuality would help in the FGC though.

      • http://www.facebook.com/lorander.moody Lorander Moody

        I agree on this point.

        I live in Texas and Guard Crush, The Break, WNF, Starbase Arcade, etc. all run way too late for me. I’m always disappointed I can never catch these streams, but I have a job to go to in the morning.

        I don’t know how this can be helped though as you have to work around the schedules of the players. More punctuality would help in the FGC though.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mikhail-Aristotle-Snake-Fridman/194307390 Mikhail Aristotle-Snake Fridma

    I think it’s worth noting that developers of SC2 and League of Legends actually reach out to gaming leagues and work with them constantly. This doesn’t happen with FGC. Sure Capcom shows up at EVO and such, but I’m not sure how much they really contribute outside of selling us their games. 

    I absolutely agree with this article. The FGC has built up it’s own tournaments and runs them incredibly well, if not better than other gaming leagues. Capcom owes this community a lot of credit because it’s the only reason Capcom isn’t dead in the water yet (no one fucking buy Resident Evil or… what else does Capcom make again =P). Capcom doesn’t back it’s community the way other companies do with their games. And I feel like that’s one of the biggest problems with this scene.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mikhail-Aristotle-Snake-Fridman/194307390 Mikhail Aristotle-Snake Fridma

    I think it’s worth noting that developers of SC2 and League of Legends actually reach out to gaming leagues and work with them constantly. This doesn’t happen with FGC. Sure Capcom shows up at EVO and such, but I’m not sure how much they really contribute outside of selling us their games. 

    I absolutely agree with this article. The FGC has built up it’s own tournaments and runs them incredibly well, if not better than other gaming leagues. Capcom owes this community a lot of credit because it’s the only reason Capcom isn’t dead in the water yet (no one fucking buy Resident Evil or… what else does Capcom make again =P). Capcom doesn’t back it’s community the way other companies do with their games. And I feel like that’s one of the biggest problems with this scene.

  • Anonymous

    Wow that rant by Sirscoots is pathetic. I really couldn’t imagine SC2 players getting hype over someone popping off in MvC

  • Anonymous

    Wow that rant by Sirscoots is pathetic. I really couldn’t imagine SC2 players getting hype over someone popping off in MvC

  • Anonymous

    Wow that rant by Sirscoots is pathetic. I really couldn’t imagine SC2 players getting hype over someone popping off in MvC

  • http://twitter.com/AAWalrus Jesse Zhu

    I’d like to note that the first SC2 events at MLG and Dreamhack were awful too. They kept going with it though, and now it’s godlike for SC2. In fact, it’s probably safe to say the first tournament for any game for a league was awful.

    I love fighting games much more than SC2, but I’ve followed SC2 for a long time now and I really wish the FGC could blow up like SC2. I think I have the same sentiment as SirScoots in that I’m just impatient for the blow up. But when I see events like NEC just now (and EVO of course) get so many viewers, I feel like it’s true that the FGC can stand on its own legs.

    However, don’t just resist the eSports train blindly, that’s just stupid.

    Also, I thought this article was old or something, because all this has been talked to the ground already.

  • http://twitter.com/AAWalrus Jesse Zhu

    I’d like to note that the first SC2 events at MLG and Dreamhack were awful too. They kept going with it though, and now it’s godlike for SC2. In fact, it’s probably safe to say the first tournament for any game for a league was awful.

    I love fighting games much more than SC2, but I’ve followed SC2 for a long time now and I really wish the FGC could blow up like SC2. I think I have the same sentiment as SirScoots in that I’m just impatient for the blow up. But when I see events like NEC just now (and EVO of course) get so many viewers, I feel like it’s true that the FGC can stand on its own legs.

    However, don’t just resist the eSports train blindly, that’s just stupid.

    Also, I thought this article was old or something, because all this has been talked to the ground already.

  • http://twitter.com/AAWalrus Jesse Zhu

    I’d like to note that the first SC2 events at MLG and Dreamhack were awful too. They kept going with it though, and now it’s godlike for SC2. In fact, it’s probably safe to say the first tournament for any game for a league was awful.

    I love fighting games much more than SC2, but I’ve followed SC2 for a long time now and I really wish the FGC could blow up like SC2. I think I have the same sentiment as SirScoots in that I’m just impatient for the blow up. But when I see events like NEC just now (and EVO of course) get so many viewers, I feel like it’s true that the FGC can stand on its own legs.

    However, don’t just resist the eSports train blindly, that’s just stupid.

    Also, I thought this article was old or something, because all this has been talked to the ground already.

  • http://twitter.com/AAWalrus Jesse Zhu

    I’d like to note that the first SC2 events at MLG and Dreamhack were awful too. They kept going with it though, and now it’s godlike for SC2. In fact, it’s probably safe to say the first tournament for any game for a league was awful.

    I love fighting games much more than SC2, but I’ve followed SC2 for a long time now and I really wish the FGC could blow up like SC2. I think I have the same sentiment as SirScoots in that I’m just impatient for the blow up. But when I see events like NEC just now (and EVO of course) get so many viewers, I feel like it’s true that the FGC can stand on its own legs.

    However, don’t just resist the eSports train blindly, that’s just stupid.

    Also, I thought this article was old or something, because all this has been talked to the ground already.

    • Anonymous

      Not just the first events. Nearly a year after they started showing SC2, MLG Dallas 2011 was a COMPLETE catastrophe.

    • Anonymous

      Not just the first events. Nearly a year after they started showing SC2, MLG Dallas 2011 was a COMPLETE catastrophe.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Cannon/701758565 Tom Cannon

      I’m happy to let this topic lie, but felt I had to respond after basically being accused of sabotaging Street Fighter’s success.

      • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

        Thank you for responding.  As a huge fan (and scrub) of both SC2 and FG’s, I am very interested in seeing maximum success in both (and all competitive gaming which I don’t watch regularly).  I was hoping someone from the other side of the debate would respond

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Cannon/701758565 Tom Cannon

      I’m happy to let this topic lie, but felt I had to respond after basically being accused of sabotaging Street Fighter’s success.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Cannon/701758565 Tom Cannon

      I’m happy to let this topic lie, but felt I had to respond after basically being accused of sabotaging Street Fighter’s success.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Cannon/701758565 Tom Cannon

      I’m happy to let this topic lie, but felt I had to respond after basically being accused of sabotaging Street Fighter’s success.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Cannon/701758565 Tom Cannon

      I’m happy to let this topic lie, but felt I had to respond after basically being accused of sabotaging Street Fighter’s success.

  • http://twitter.com/AAWalrus Jesse Zhu

    I’d like to note that the first SC2 events at MLG and Dreamhack were awful too. They kept going with it though, and now it’s godlike for SC2. In fact, it’s probably safe to say the first tournament for any game for a league was awful.

    I love fighting games much more than SC2, but I’ve followed SC2 for a long time now and I really wish the FGC could blow up like SC2. I think I have the same sentiment as SirScoots in that I’m just impatient for the blow up. But when I see events like NEC just now (and EVO of course) get so many viewers, I feel like it’s true that the FGC can stand on its own legs.

    However, don’t just resist the eSports train blindly, that’s just stupid.

    Also, I thought this article was old or something, because all this has been talked to the ground already.

  • http://twitter.com/AAWalrus Jesse Zhu

    I’d like to note that the first SC2 events at MLG and Dreamhack were awful too. They kept going with it though, and now it’s godlike for SC2. In fact, it’s probably safe to say the first tournament for any game for a league was awful.

    I love fighting games much more than SC2, but I’ve followed SC2 for a long time now and I really wish the FGC could blow up like SC2. I think I have the same sentiment as SirScoots in that I’m just impatient for the blow up. But when I see events like NEC just now (and EVO of course) get so many viewers, I feel like it’s true that the FGC can stand on its own legs.

    However, don’t just resist the eSports train blindly, that’s just stupid.

    Also, I thought this article was old or something, because all this has been talked to the ground already.

  • Anonymous

    I wish Virtua Fighter 5 got more love in the western world.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=769835536 Stuart Hayden

      you are incredibly misinformed. VF has a pretty big following in America. But why should we care if Sega doesn’t? We’re just now getting Final Showdown next year and its been out for almost 2.

      There is no reason to play VF5 if we know there are better and more up-to-date versions out.

      • http://twitter.com/TwitHatman TwitHatman

        Pretty much.

      • http://twitter.com/TwitHatman TwitHatman

        Pretty much.

      • http://twitter.com/TwitHatman TwitHatman

        Pretty much.

      • http://twitter.com/TwitHatman TwitHatman

        Pretty much.

      • http://twitter.com/TwitHatman TwitHatman

        Pretty much.

  • Anonymous

    I wish Virtua Fighter 5 got more love in the western world.

  • http://twitter.com/BerlinWalrus Walrus’d

    A great article, but I have to say, parts of it feel like we’re calling the kettle black. “…and they are dead set on doing things their own way, without input from the community.” This isn’t something eSports has cornered the market on. Evo hosted a Smash Brothers Brawl tournament with items on despite the outrage of the Smash community, and on two occasions hosted outdated versions of Guilty Gear.

    “Esports found real success when they discovered they could do broadcast without TV.” is misleading as well, as the success of eSports, particularly Starcraft II is a direct result of the Korean eSports model, and it having (until recently) two TV stations dedicated to showing their product. American eSport’s reluctance to even the thought of TV deals has really set back the community. While American eSports ‘get by’ with niche advertisers like Evil Geniuses and Complexity, who advertise directly to people already consuming the product. Korea really set the standard with teams sponsored by Samsung, CJ, South Korea Telecom, the Korean Air Force, and the STX corporation

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

      Even then there were issues with Kespa right? Besides the point but yeah, they had their fights.

      • http://twitter.com/BerlinWalrus Walrus’d

        There were issues with KeSPA, that’s true, but KeSPA was an organization that was fairly unique, and a bit of rockyness has to be expected, I think? And even then, the KeSPA issues as far as I’m aware, never really impacted their players, or their community outside of not officially recognizing the GOMTV Broodwar tournaments, and if you’re really stretching, the match fixing scandal.

      • http://twitter.com/BerlinWalrus Walrus’d

        There were issues with KeSPA, that’s true, but KeSPA was an organization that was fairly unique, and a bit of rockyness has to be expected, I think? And even then, the KeSPA issues as far as I’m aware, never really impacted their players, or their community outside of not officially recognizing the GOMTV Broodwar tournaments, and if you’re really stretching, the match fixing scandal.

      • http://twitter.com/BerlinWalrus Walrus’d

        There were issues with KeSPA, that’s true, but KeSPA was an organization that was fairly unique, and a bit of rockyness has to be expected, I think? And even then, the KeSPA issues as far as I’m aware, never really impacted their players, or their community outside of not officially recognizing the GOMTV Broodwar tournaments, and if you’re really stretching, the match fixing scandal.

      • http://twitter.com/BerlinWalrus Walrus’d

        There were issues with KeSPA, that’s true, but KeSPA was an organization that was fairly unique, and a bit of rockyness has to be expected, I think? And even then, the KeSPA issues as far as I’m aware, never really impacted their players, or their community outside of not officially recognizing the GOMTV Broodwar tournaments, and if you’re really stretching, the match fixing scandal.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

          What about the move from Broodwars to Starcraft II? Essentially it was like Chess 2 came out so I remember it being an issue, one that affected players.

          • http://twitter.com/BerlinWalrus Walrus’d

            Except it’s not anything KeSPA had anything to do with. KeSPA runs Broodwar tournaments. They, because of Blizzard giving IP rights to Gretech, don’t have anything to do with SC2. As far as ‘chess 2′ goes, there is still a professional Broodwar scene in Korea. There is still hours of Broodwar related programming on Korean TV every night. There are still big names (Samsung, Korean Air, and a ton more) supporting Broodwar and Korean eSports as a mini-industry.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

            Alright sounds good and everything worked out for the Broodwar scene. Thanks

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

            Alright sounds good and everything worked out for the Broodwar scene. Thanks

          • http://twitter.com/BerlinWalrus Walrus’d

            Except it’s not anything KeSPA had anything to do with. KeSPA runs Broodwar tournaments. They, because of Blizzard giving IP rights to Gretech, don’t have anything to do with SC2. As far as ‘chess 2′ goes, there is still a professional Broodwar scene in Korea. There is still hours of Broodwar related programming on Korean TV every night. There are still big names (Samsung, Korean Air, and a ton more) supporting Broodwar and Korean eSports as a mini-industry.

      • http://twitter.com/BerlinWalrus Walrus’d

        There were issues with KeSPA, that’s true, but KeSPA was an organization that was fairly unique, and a bit of rockyness has to be expected, I think? And even then, the KeSPA issues as far as I’m aware, never really impacted their players, or their community outside of not officially recognizing the GOMTV Broodwar tournaments, and if you’re really stretching, the match fixing scandal.

      • http://twitter.com/BerlinWalrus Walrus’d

        There were issues with KeSPA, that’s true, but KeSPA was an organization that was fairly unique, and a bit of rockyness has to be expected, I think? And even then, the KeSPA issues as far as I’m aware, never really impacted their players, or their community outside of not officially recognizing the GOMTV Broodwar tournaments, and if you’re really stretching, the match fixing scandal.

    • Josh Hathaway

      While you do make good points, I have to take umbrage at needing TV to continue to expand us further.

      If we were to go back about 5-10 or so years, would TV be a desirable transmission vector?  Yes.  But as the internet has expanded, look at what has been introduced.  Broadband internet.  Youtube.  Twitch.TV/Own3d/Ustream.  Entertainment production that can be done from a laptop or desktop, a few bits and pieces of software and an audio setup.

      Organizations like MLG, EVO, CC, etc. have taken matters into their own hands and have tailored the experience to how they want it.  They can line up their own advertisers.  They can deliver live content.  They can deliver on-demand or archived content.  They don’t have to jump through the hoops of having to fight whatever local/state/federal brouhaha that would be waiting to start their own network.  They don’t have to deal with another set of middlemen at a network that tell them to do it their way, or else.

      And because of how intertwined the internet is to our society, it begs the question: do we necessarily need TV?  I don’t speak for others, but I haven’t had a cable/satellite package for the last 7 years or so.  All my media has come from the internet – whether it’s something that can be found on TV, at the movies or on radio.

      If TV networks want to approach an organization and say that they will stream coverage for as little strings attached as possible, then I say fine – knock yourselves out.  But do we need TV to survive?  Not in this day and age.  I think EVO realized this, and how close has Sessler been to the stream setup since?

      If anything, my biggest worry, and thus idea, would be to cast suspicion on any party that would try to undermine that.  Because the internet is an excellent media delivery system, and there’s a strong chance that anyone who is saying otherwise might have a horse in the race.

      • http://twitter.com/BerlinWalrus Walrus’d

        Twitch.tv is great, if you’re familiar with the product enough to find the streams, and you’re up to date when events are, and you’re willing to subscribe to their less-than-stellar ad revenue plans. You know what Twitch.tv doesn’t get though? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrQfOgUh54c Anyone outside the market of people who already want the product.

      • http://twitter.com/BerlinWalrus Walrus’d

        Twitch.tv is great, if you’re familiar with the product enough to find the streams, and you’re up to date when events are, and you’re willing to subscribe to their less-than-stellar ad revenue plans. You know what Twitch.tv doesn’t get though? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrQfOgUh54c Anyone outside the market of people who already want the product.

      • http://twitter.com/BerlinWalrus Walrus’d

        Twitch.tv is great, if you’re familiar with the product enough to find the streams, and you’re up to date when events are, and you’re willing to subscribe to their less-than-stellar ad revenue plans. You know what Twitch.tv doesn’t get though? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrQfOgUh54c Anyone outside the market of people who already want the product.

      • http://twitter.com/BerlinWalrus Walrus’d

        Twitch.tv is great, if you’re familiar with the product enough to find the streams, and you’re up to date when events are, and you’re willing to subscribe to their less-than-stellar ad revenue plans. You know what Twitch.tv doesn’t get though? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrQfOgUh54c Anyone outside the market of people who already want the product.

        • Josh Hathaway

          When events are is the broadcasters’ responsibility, not Twitch.  If they want to have a well-off product, then they need to deliver to the expectation of the viewers.  That includes schedules that are either announced or regular.  Twitch can help in the advertising of the broadcaster, but beyond that they have no control.

          As for your other two points, I think we both can agree on that.  Especially the ad revenue issue.  Not just from a broadcaster perspective, but also from a viewer perspective.

          Right now, the ads they have in rotation are broken.  The Nikon ads don’t load properly and require a forced shutdown after a certain point (Twitch indicated they disabled this ad but it didn’t take effect until the tail end of NEC).  There are a few ads that ignore one of Twitch’s more recent features (volume control), making me scramble for the computer mute hotkey before my ears are blasted out.  SPEAK OF THE DEVIL, PAPA JOHN’S.  No, seriously, it just happened while I was watching NerdJosh’s stream.

          Hopefully these are some of the issues the streaming providers continue to work on and ultimately fix.

  • http://twitter.com/letujon Jonathan Le

    WE ARE THE 1%

    OCCUPY eSPORTS

  • http://twitter.com/letujon Jonathan Le

    WE ARE THE 1%

    OCCUPY eSPORTS

  • http://twitter.com/letujon Jonathan Le

    WE ARE THE 1%

    OCCUPY eSPORTS

  • http://www.facebook.com/ciaran.plunkett Ciaran Plunkett

    eSports started in LANs and on the internet.

    FGC started on home consoles and in the arcade.

    This difference in roots is why the “feel” is different.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

      More then that, in fighting games/arcade, you’re literally NEXT to your opponent all the time. 

      So fighting games are A LOT more personal competitively.

      • http://twitter.com/CitizenCIA_SF Jeremy Sherman

        I watched a Starcraft stream, and they had the players in these boxes like, 30 feet away from each other. Imagine if that was Fighting game tournaments.. It wouldn’t be the same. 

      • http://twitter.com/CitizenCIA_SF Jeremy Sherman

        I watched a Starcraft stream, and they had the players in these boxes like, 30 feet away from each other. Imagine if that was Fighting game tournaments.. It wouldn’t be the same. 

        • http://twitter.com/BerlinWalrus Walrus’d

          That’s why they wouldn’t, and don’t do that for fighting game events at things like Tekken events run by MLG or the Korean eSports Association. In Starcraft, you need a sound proof environment if you’re going to be playing in front of a few hundred people. The flow of RTS games is stretched out, and you need time to prepare, units take time, teching and economic plays aren’t instant overheads. If you hear the commentator talking about how your opponent is doing X or Y a huge amount of skill leaves the game.

      • http://twitter.com/CitizenCIA_SF Jeremy Sherman

        I watched a Starcraft stream, and they had the players in these boxes like, 30 feet away from each other. Imagine if that was Fighting game tournaments.. It wouldn’t be the same. 

      • http://twitter.com/CitizenCIA_SF Jeremy Sherman

        I watched a Starcraft stream, and they had the players in these boxes like, 30 feet away from each other. Imagine if that was Fighting game tournaments.. It wouldn’t be the same. 

      • Anonymous

        I wouldn’t say that it’s any more personal than competitive FPS playing in LAN centers, where you are still right next to your opponent all the time. The big difference between RTS/FPS is that you want to keep your location hidden from your enemy, thus you have your own unique perspective on the match- it’s obviously shared in fighting games. But does that make it less personal? Not necessarily

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

      More then that, in fighting games/arcade, you’re literally NEXT to your opponent all the time. 

      So fighting games are A LOT more personal competitively.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

      More then that, in fighting games/arcade, you’re literally NEXT to your opponent all the time. 

      So fighting games are A LOT more personal competitively.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

      More then that, in fighting games/arcade, you’re literally NEXT to your opponent all the time. 

      So fighting games are A LOT more personal competitively.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

      More then that, in fighting games/arcade, you’re literally NEXT to your opponent all the time. 

      So fighting games are A LOT more personal competitively.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

      More then that, in fighting games/arcade, you’re literally NEXT to your opponent all the time. 

      So fighting games are A LOT more personal competitively.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

      More then that, in fighting games/arcade, you’re literally NEXT to your opponent all the time. 

      So fighting games are A LOT more personal competitively.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ciaran.plunkett Ciaran Plunkett

    eSports started in LANs and on the internet.

    FGC started on home consoles and in the arcade.

    This difference in roots is why the “feel” is different.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ciaran.plunkett Ciaran Plunkett

    eSports started in LANs and on the internet.

    FGC started on home consoles and in the arcade.

    This difference in roots is why the “feel” is different.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ciaran.plunkett Ciaran Plunkett

    eSports started in LANs and on the internet.

    FGC started on home consoles and in the arcade.

    This difference in roots is why the “feel” is different.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ciaran.plunkett Ciaran Plunkett

    eSports started in LANs and on the internet.

    FGC started on home consoles and in the arcade.

    This difference in roots is why the “feel” is different.

  • oscar smith

    Fantastic article. Not sure if this post is going to work, but basically, I’m from the Starcraft: Brood War community (it’s a small niche now compared to SC2) And I really agree with what you’re saying. I think Starcraft II and all those trendy games now – weird analogy upcomming, but will come back straight like a narcotic. They’re blowing up now, but in a year or so, bam! They’re not going to be there anymore. Just like Quake (Although i love quake T_T)

    fuck, wasnt sure if my name would get on this, lol.

    • Anonymous

      Quake is still there, SC is still as much or more competitive than SC2. Just because you quit following it doesn’t mean it went away.

    • http://www.facebook.com/man.kat Grant Mankat Manwarren

      I wouldn’t say that in a year or so that they won’t be there, but that the community would probably diminished. There are still people who play SC: BW (You yourself play it and I know you aren’t the only one), but SCII will stay for a while (With two more expansions coming out, we got another 4 to 6 years at least to come). MvC2 was around for 10 years, but when MvC3 came out a good chunk of them went to play it. Some went back to MvC2 while the others stayed to keep playing the game because it was relevant.

      • Anonymous

        MvC2 had something like 8 players at Final Round this year, and it didn’t happen at all at Season’s Beatings.  That game crashed harder than Guilty Gear did after Blazblue, which really surprised me.

      • Anonymous

        MvC2 had something like 8 players at Final Round this year, and it didn’t happen at all at Season’s Beatings.  That game crashed harder than Guilty Gear did after Blazblue, which really surprised me.

      • Anonymous

        MvC2 had something like 8 players at Final Round this year, and it didn’t happen at all at Season’s Beatings.  That game crashed harder than Guilty Gear did after Blazblue, which really surprised me.

    • http://www.facebook.com/man.kat Grant Mankat Manwarren

      I wouldn’t say that in a year or so that they won’t be there, but that the community would probably diminished. There are still people who play SC: BW (You yourself play it and I know you aren’t the only one), but SCII will stay for a while (With two more expansions coming out, we got another 4 to 6 years at least to come). MvC2 was around for 10 years, but when MvC3 came out a good chunk of them went to play it. Some went back to MvC2 while the others stayed to keep playing the game because it was relevant.

  • oscar smith

    Fantastic article. Not sure if this post is going to work, but basically, I’m from the Starcraft: Brood War community (it’s a small niche now compared to SC2) And I really agree with what you’re saying. I think Starcraft II and all those trendy games now – weird analogy upcomming, but will come back straight like a narcotic. They’re blowing up now, but in a year or so, bam! They’re not going to be there anymore. Just like Quake (Although i love quake T_T)

    fuck, wasnt sure if my name would get on this, lol.

  • oscar smith

    Fantastic article. Not sure if this post is going to work, but basically, I’m from the Starcraft: Brood War community (it’s a small niche now compared to SC2) And I really agree with what you’re saying. I think Starcraft II and all those trendy games now – weird analogy upcomming, but will come back straight like a narcotic. They’re blowing up now, but in a year or so, bam! They’re not going to be there anymore. Just like Quake (Although i love quake T_T)

    fuck, wasnt sure if my name would get on this, lol.

  • http://twitter.com/Graphf Thane W

    I watched that interview. Tom, please never let SRK or EVO be a part of anything to do w/ that fuck. He is exactly the kind of middle man that is looking for a chance to make himself rich and doesn’t know a thing about what makes the FGC what it is.

  • http://twitter.com/Graphf Thane W

    I watched that interview. Tom, please never let SRK or EVO be a part of anything to do w/ that fuck. He is exactly the kind of middle man that is looking for a chance to make himself rich and doesn’t know a thing about what makes the FGC what it is.

  • http://twitter.com/Graphf Thane W

    I watched that interview. Tom, please never let SRK or EVO be a part of anything to do w/ that fuck. He is exactly the kind of middle man that is looking for a chance to make himself rich and doesn’t know a thing about what makes the FGC what it is.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Walter-Thomas/100000923690574 Walter Thomas

    As one of those newly converted to the scene (played fighters for years, but only recently started to follow the scene after EVO) I wanted to know why the FCG and the esports/MLG were separate. 

    Now I know, its eerily similar to how combat sports (boxing, mma/ufc, kickboxing) live in a distinct bubble alongside traditional stick and ball sport.

    I would like to see a response from the esports community on why they have failed to successfully integrate the fgc into their ranks. And what they think of Hype, one of the most enigmatic qualities of the fgc in my opinion.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Walter-Thomas/100000923690574 Walter Thomas

    As one of those newly converted to the scene (played fighters for years, but only recently started to follow the scene after EVO) I wanted to know why the FCG and the esports/MLG were separate. 

    Now I know, its eerily similar to how combat sports (boxing, mma/ufc, kickboxing) live in a distinct bubble alongside traditional stick and ball sport.

    I would like to see a response from the esports community on why they have failed to successfully integrate the fgc into their ranks. And what they think of Hype, one of the most enigmatic qualities of the fgc in my opinion.

  • Anonymous

    I love the fact that the picture headlining the article is that of a former ‘pro’ sponsored player who know finds himself working the menial 9-5 job.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Walter-Thomas/100000923690574 Walter Thomas

      Thanks for the explanation, I was in the dark over that pic and what it meant.

      I was thinking “WTF does esports and the fgc have to do with buying bulk goods?” 

    • Anonymous

      That’s a real MASTER at work.

      See what I did there? : P

    • Anonymous

      That’s a real MASTER at work.

      See what I did there? : P

    • Anonymous

      What’s wrong with his job? Is it not an honest living?

    • Anonymous

      What’s wrong with his job? Is it not an honest living?

      • Anonymous

        Nothing wrong with it at all.

        If you find the article the picture comes from however you’ll hear how quickly disenchanted the man became with e-sports, sponsorship, and so on. Sort of a wake up call really.

      • Anonymous

        Nothing wrong with it at all.

        If you find the article the picture comes from however you’ll hear how quickly disenchanted the man became with e-sports, sponsorship, and so on. Sort of a wake up call really.

      • Anonymous

        Nothing wrong with it at all.

        If you find the article the picture comes from however you’ll hear how quickly disenchanted the man became with e-sports, sponsorship, and so on. Sort of a wake up call really.

      • Anonymous

        Nothing wrong with it at all.

        If you find the article the picture comes from however you’ll hear how quickly disenchanted the man became with e-sports, sponsorship, and so on. Sort of a wake up call really.

      • Anonymous

        Nothing wrong with it at all.

        If you find the article the picture comes from however you’ll hear how quickly disenchanted the man became with e-sports, sponsorship, and so on. Sort of a wake up call really.

      • Anonymous

        Nothing wrong with it at all.

        If you find the article the picture comes from however you’ll hear how quickly disenchanted the man became with e-sports, sponsorship, and so on. Sort of a wake up call really.

      • Anonymous

        Nothing wrong with it at all.

        If you find the article the picture comes from however you’ll hear how quickly disenchanted the man became with e-sports, sponsorship, and so on. Sort of a wake up call really.

    • Anonymous

      What’s wrong with his job? Is it not an honest living?

  • Anonymous

    I love the fact that the picture headlining the article is that of a former ‘pro’ sponsored player who know finds himself working the menial 9-5 job.

  • Anonymous

    I love the fact that the picture headlining the article is that of a former ‘pro’ sponsored player who know finds himself working the menial 9-5 job.

  • Anonymous

    I love the fact that the picture headlining the article is that of a former ‘pro’ sponsored player who know finds himself working the menial 9-5 job.

  • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

    Everyone else covers a lot of my opinions but I disagree with your rejection of proven successful models.   I wouldn’t (and I find it sad that anyone would…) try to argue that the whole community needs to change their attitude or the way they work or that hype should be diminished in any way.  I also agree that EVO is the hypest competitive gaming event the world’s ever seen.   But the truth of the matter is, the way things are right now is hindering growth.  Big sponsorship dollars are there for the taking….

    My theory is that eventually competitive players & commentators will “wake up” and realize they are missing out on a ton of sponsorship money and will begin to adjust the way they think / what they demand of teams / events.   

    It is literally an outrage that these top players you see traveling all around the country (and the world) have to have dayjobs/oddjobs/football betting (cough Team Marn) /etc to maintain their lifestyle.  They should be living like the kings they are with 1000s of legit fans, twitter followers, stream viewers, supporters…  You don’t have to change or put your faith into a scary organization to get there, just open your mind a little bit and stop focusing on ancient history.

    We could literally have 2 streams dedicated for every game, with all your favorite commentators and international players, at every major…  (this is the norm in eSports)

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

      I’m interested in knowing why you think this competitive gaming thing should be paying the bills and be enough to live off of.

      • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

        Are you questioning that it’s possible or that it’s necessary/beneficial?  Sorry I don’t understand your comment.   Have a look at the EG pro-gaming house in Arizona for a case of how people in the same team as JWong & Floe have 100% of their expenses and daily chores handled because of greater sponsor support of their game.  Imagine how skilled top FG pros would be if they could be as dedicated?

        • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

          The hunger would be gone. There’s no hunting when you have the meal in front of you.

        • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

          The hunger would be gone. There’s no hunting when you have the meal in front of you.

          • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

            ..And yet consistently the winners at the biggest tournies arguably have the least “hunger”  care to explain? I’ve never ever seen Daigo “hungry”  Trust me, when you’re competing for 100 grand (that you keep for the most part) you are not going to take it casually.  On the contrary, I would actually argue the current model diminishes hunger in sponsored (travel) players, like some who I saw flown to a regional major to compete for a few hundred dollars, when their counterparts in SC2 are flown around the world winning 100 grands (that they keep, for the most part) ..  At the same tourney  another famous player was completely engrossed in football betting, only took his eyes off his iPhone when he had a match.  I would gauge his hunger to win that thing near zero, but of course he did extremely well.

          • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

            Look how much money they need to be rewarded with to even go to these things lol. Do they even enjoy playing the game or playing the money at that point?

            http://www.spring.org.uk/2008/04/do-big-money-bonuses-really-increase.php

          • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

            Look how much money they need to be rewarded with to even go to these things lol. Do they even enjoy playing the game or playing the money at that point?

            http://www.spring.org.uk/2008/04/do-big-money-bonuses-really-increase.php

          • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

            Look how much money they need to be rewarded with to even go to these things lol. Do they even enjoy playing the game or playing the money at that point?

            http://www.spring.org.uk/2008/04/do-big-money-bonuses-really-increase.php

          • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

            Look how much money they need to be rewarded with to even go to these things lol. Do they even enjoy playing the game or playing the money at that point?

            http://www.spring.org.uk/2008/04/do-big-money-bonuses-really-increase.php

          • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

            ..And yet consistently the winners at the biggest tournies arguably have the least “hunger”  care to explain? I’ve never ever seen Daigo “hungry”  Trust me, when you’re competing for 100 grand (that you keep for the most part) you are not going to take it casually.  On the contrary, I would actually argue the current model diminishes hunger in sponsored (travel) players, like some who I saw flown to a regional major to compete for a few hundred dollars, when their counterparts in SC2 are flown around the world winning 100 grands (that they keep, for the most part) ..  At the same tourney  another famous player was completely engrossed in football betting, only took his eyes off his iPhone when he had a match.  I would gauge his hunger to win that thing near zero, but of course he did extremely well.

          • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

            ..And yet consistently the winners at the biggest tournies arguably have the least “hunger”  care to explain? I’ve never ever seen Daigo “hungry”  Trust me, when you’re competing for 100 grand (that you keep for the most part) you are not going to take it casually.  On the contrary, I would actually argue the current model diminishes hunger in sponsored (travel) players, like some who I saw flown to a regional major to compete for a few hundred dollars, when their counterparts in SC2 are flown around the world winning 100 grands (that they keep, for the most part) ..  At the same tourney  another famous player was completely engrossed in football betting, only took his eyes off his iPhone when he had a match.  I would gauge his hunger to win that thing near zero, but of course he did extremely well.

          • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

            ..And yet consistently the winners at the biggest tournies arguably have the least “hunger”  care to explain? I’ve never ever seen Daigo “hungry”  Trust me, when you’re competing for 100 grand (that you keep for the most part) you are not going to take it casually.  On the contrary, I would actually argue the current model diminishes hunger in sponsored (travel) players, like some who I saw flown to a regional major to compete for a few hundred dollars, when their counterparts in SC2 are flown around the world winning 100 grands (that they keep, for the most part) ..  At the same tourney  another famous player was completely engrossed in football betting, only took his eyes off his iPhone when he had a match.  I would gauge his hunger to win that thing near zero, but of course he did extremely well.

          • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

            ..And yet consistently the winners at the biggest tournies arguably have the least “hunger”  care to explain? I’ve never ever seen Daigo “hungry”  Trust me, when you’re competing for 100 grand (that you keep for the most part) you are not going to take it casually.  On the contrary, I would actually argue the current model diminishes hunger in sponsored (travel) players, like some who I saw flown to a regional major to compete for a few hundred dollars, when their counterparts in SC2 are flown around the world winning 100 grands (that they keep, for the most part) ..  At the same tourney  another famous player was completely engrossed in football betting, only took his eyes off his iPhone when he had a match.  I would gauge his hunger to win that thing near zero, but of course he did extremely well.

          • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

            wow, I guess pro starcraft 2 players just aren’t hungry then.  or pro football players.  or pro… anything at all…. in the world…?

          • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

            They worked harder to get there than they do to stay there.

          • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

            and I understand that money isn’t a great motivator.  this isn’t about motivating players, it’s about giving them freedom.  it’s also about making the decision to invest time in games less of a risk, not just for current players, but for future ones.  

          • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

            and I understand that money isn’t a great motivator.  this isn’t about motivating players, it’s about giving them freedom.  it’s also about making the decision to invest time in games less of a risk, not just for current players, but for future ones.  

          • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

            and I understand that money isn’t a great motivator.  this isn’t about motivating players, it’s about giving them freedom.  it’s also about making the decision to invest time in games less of a risk, not just for current players, but for future ones.  

          • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

            and I understand that money isn’t a great motivator.  this isn’t about motivating players, it’s about giving them freedom.  it’s also about making the decision to invest time in games less of a risk, not just for current players, but for future ones.  

          • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

            and I understand that money isn’t a great motivator.  this isn’t about motivating players, it’s about giving them freedom.  it’s also about making the decision to invest time in games less of a risk, not just for current players, but for future ones.  

          • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

            and I understand that money isn’t a great motivator.  this isn’t about motivating players, it’s about giving them freedom.  it’s also about making the decision to invest time in games less of a risk, not just for current players, but for future ones.  

      • Anonymous

        If players have to work other jobs instead of practicing, the competition is a farce, and players will never reach their potential skill levels. 

        How’s that for a reason?

        • Anonymous

          Man players are already working other jobs while practicing.

          Devotion has never been an issue for this community, get that shit out of here.

        • Anonymous

          Man players are already working other jobs while practicing.

          Devotion has never been an issue for this community, get that shit out of here.

          • Anonymous

            …that’s what I’m saying. Until they are free to fully devote themselves to practice (instead of having to work other jobs), we will never see truly high-level competition.

          • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

            Word.  I don’t know how people can argue that spend less time is the same as more.  Do they honestly think we’ve hit ANY kind of skill cap in the major fg titles?  We’re not even close!

          • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

            Word.  I don’t know how people can argue that spend less time is the same as more.  Do they honestly think we’ve hit ANY kind of skill cap in the major fg titles?  We’re not even close!

          • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

            Word.  I don’t know how people can argue that spend less time is the same as more.  Do they honestly think we’ve hit ANY kind of skill cap in the major fg titles?  We’re not even close!

          • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

            Word.  I don’t know how people can argue that spend less time is the same as more.  Do they honestly think we’ve hit ANY kind of skill cap in the major fg titles?  We’re not even close!

          • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X
          • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X
          • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X
          • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X
          • Anonymous

            …that’s what I’m saying. Until they are free to fully devote themselves to practice (instead of having to work other jobs), we will never see truly high-level competition.

        • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

          Lol you really think that?

      • Anonymous

        If players have to work other jobs instead of practicing, the competition is a farce, and players will never reach their potential skill levels. 

        How’s that for a reason?

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

      I’m interested in knowing why you think this competitive gaming thing should be paying the bills and be enough to live off of.

    • Anonymous

      I think the main issue is money vs passion.

      Those looking to intermix the FGC with eSports are looking at the $ potential that the FGC is missing out on.

      The hardcore rooted FGC players look at it through the eyes of passion and community rather than money.  To give into eSports for money but loose its sense of “character” isn’t worth it.  At least not yet.

    • Anonymous

      I think the main issue is money vs passion.

      Those looking to intermix the FGC with eSports are looking at the $ potential that the FGC is missing out on.

      The hardcore rooted FGC players look at it through the eyes of passion and community rather than money.  To give into eSports for money but loose its sense of “character” isn’t worth it.  At least not yet.

      • Anonymous

        Rob I would say it’s more about enabling a lifestyle where a top player can do what they love full time, not necessarily to get rich. Daigo does that now and there’s no question in my mind that he loves playing fighting games- I wish more players were able to dedicate the amount of time that he can, because I think the top American guys could level up even more and give the Japanese more of a run for their money than they already do

      • Anonymous

        Rob I would say it’s more about enabling a lifestyle where a top player can do what they love full time, not necessarily to get rich. Daigo does that now and there’s no question in my mind that he loves playing fighting games- I wish more players were able to dedicate the amount of time that he can, because I think the top American guys could level up even more and give the Japanese more of a run for their money than they already do

        • Anonymous

          Again you’re comparing money with passion.  And you’re asking players to play to their passion by enticing their wallet.

          Players like Justin Wong, Alex Valle, Daigo, James Chen, etc arent playing the games to make money.  They do it because they are passionate about the community.  Money is second.

          There is nothing wrong if the community as a whole doesn’t want to “sell out.”  Its their choice.  If they choose to grow slower than eSport why should everyone around the FGC condemn them for nothing maximizing its $ potential.

        • Anonymous

          Again you’re comparing money with passion.  And you’re asking players to play to their passion by enticing their wallet.

          Players like Justin Wong, Alex Valle, Daigo, James Chen, etc arent playing the games to make money.  They do it because they are passionate about the community.  Money is second.

          There is nothing wrong if the community as a whole doesn’t want to “sell out.”  Its their choice.  If they choose to grow slower than eSport why should everyone around the FGC condemn them for nothing maximizing its $ potential.

        • Anonymous

          Again you’re comparing money with passion.  And you’re asking players to play to their passion by enticing their wallet.

          Players like Justin Wong, Alex Valle, Daigo, James Chen, etc arent playing the games to make money.  They do it because they are passionate about the community.  Money is second.

          There is nothing wrong if the community as a whole doesn’t want to “sell out.”  Its their choice.  If they choose to grow slower than eSport why should everyone around the FGC condemn them for nothing maximizing its $ potential.

        • Anonymous

          Again you’re comparing money with passion.  And you’re asking players to play to their passion by enticing their wallet.

          Players like Justin Wong, Alex Valle, Daigo, James Chen, etc arent playing the games to make money.  They do it because they are passionate about the community.  Money is second.

          There is nothing wrong if the community as a whole doesn’t want to “sell out.”  Its their choice.  If they choose to grow slower than eSport why should everyone around the FGC condemn them for nothing maximizing its $ potential.

        • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

          Daigo is a nurse, he comes from a family of doctors and that is his career when all this over. This is not about money, Daigo loves the games he plays. Would you really give up a doctor’s salary to play games if you were in it for the cash?

        • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

          Daigo is a nurse, he comes from a family of doctors and that is his career when all this over. This is not about money, Daigo loves the games he plays. Would you really give up a doctor’s salary to play games if you were in it for the cash?

          • hyerty

            Well actually his dad was a martial artist, probably taught it for a living.

          • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X
          • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X
          • http://twitter.com/bchan009 bCHAN

            I think what people are trying to say is that even if you’re dedicated and hard-working and love the game, there’s no reason winning 100 grand is a bad thing.  For top players maybe money isn’t the main reason they play, but I can’t see how having all your bills paid for is a bad thing either.  You’re acting like money is evil or something.

            Also, there ARE people who are in it for the money, and they will be attracted to the scene because of it.  And whether you like their motives or not, you can’t argue that those people will TRAIN HARD to win that cash and help bring up the level of competition overall.

            So more money + more competitors + bigger events doesn’t seem that bad to me.  

            You DO lose some of that underground feel, but that’s what happens when things go big.  You already see that in some of our FGC streams.  Why do you think there are people complaining about racism in stream chats these days?  It’s because there are a lot more people watching FGC streams now and people are actually starting to care about our community’s image – and that’s WITHOUT eSports even getting involved at all.

            You can sstay hungry and have your close, friendly tourneys with crazy stream chats still.  Those will never go away.  But I don’t see why it’s bad for people who want to go bigger to go the eSports route. 

          • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

            Because the eSports route doesn’t share our ideals or culture from what I’ve seen. For one, all the pro-eSports comments centralize around money and elevating the individual, when you can see here, FGC is trying to elevate the entire scene and community.

            There’s already qualms with players who’ve blown up not coming to locals and other things because they’re too good or not enough money to interest them now. The disconnect would just grow even further and I’d imagine the favoritism would become even worse.

            IMO

          • http://twitter.com/bchan009 bCHAN

            It’s all well and good to say that you want to elevate the community rather than the players – but what right do you have to limit those who want to go where esports are going?

            It’s a player’s choice to decide not to go to an event because the pot isn’t big enough.  Some people just want the money, and that’s a (unfortunate or not) fact.  Whether the scene goes esports or not, you’re not going to magically force people to show up to small events.  Small events are small events and that’s it.

            If the scene is so small that people are forced to go to tiny events to play, then that’s a problem.  There are some people that just aren’t interested in tiny venues, and there’s nothing you can do about that. At least with the esports, there are more large events that those types of people can play.

          • http://twitter.com/bchan009 bCHAN

            It’s all well and good to say that you want to elevate the community rather than the players – but what right do you have to limit those who want to go where esports are going?

            It’s a player’s choice to decide not to go to an event because the pot isn’t big enough.  Some people just want the money, and that’s a (unfortunate or not) fact.  Whether the scene goes esports or not, you’re not going to magically force people to show up to small events.  Small events are small events and that’s it.

            If the scene is so small that people are forced to go to tiny events to play, then that’s a problem.  There are some people that just aren’t interested in tiny venues, and there’s nothing you can do about that. At least with the esports, there are more large events that those types of people can play.

          • http://twitter.com/bchan009 bCHAN

            It’s all well and good to say that you want to elevate the community rather than the players – but what right do you have to limit those who want to go where esports are going?

            It’s a player’s choice to decide not to go to an event because the pot isn’t big enough.  Some people just want the money, and that’s a (unfortunate or not) fact.  Whether the scene goes esports or not, you’re not going to magically force people to show up to small events.  Small events are small events and that’s it.

            If the scene is so small that people are forced to go to tiny events to play, then that’s a problem.  There are some people that just aren’t interested in tiny venues, and there’s nothing you can do about that. At least with the esports, there are more large events that those types of people can play.

          • http://twitter.com/bchan009 bCHAN

            It’s all well and good to say that you want to elevate the community rather than the players – but what right do you have to limit those who want to go where esports are going?

            It’s a player’s choice to decide not to go to an event because the pot isn’t big enough.  Some people just want the money, and that’s a (unfortunate or not) fact.  Whether the scene goes esports or not, you’re not going to magically force people to show up to small events.  Small events are small events and that’s it.

            If the scene is so small that people are forced to go to tiny events to play, then that’s a problem.  There are some people that just aren’t interested in tiny venues, and there’s nothing you can do about that. At least with the esports, there are more large events that those types of people can play.

          • http://twitter.com/bchan009 bCHAN

            I think what people are trying to say is that even if you’re dedicated and hard-working and love the game, there’s no reason winning 100 grand is a bad thing.  For top players maybe money isn’t the main reason they play, but I can’t see how having all your bills paid for is a bad thing either.  You’re acting like money is evil or something.

            Also, there ARE people who are in it for the money, and they will be attracted to the scene because of it.  And whether you like their motives or not, you can’t argue that those people will TRAIN HARD to win that cash and help bring up the level of competition overall.

            So more money + more competitors + bigger events doesn’t seem that bad to me.  

            You DO lose some of that underground feel, but that’s what happens when things go big.  You already see that in some of our FGC streams.  Why do you think there are people complaining about racism in stream chats these days?  It’s because there are a lot more people watching FGC streams now and people are actually starting to care about our community’s image – and that’s WITHOUT eSports even getting involved at all.

            You can sstay hungry and have your close, friendly tourneys with crazy stream chats still.  Those will never go away.  But I don’t see why it’s bad for people who want to go bigger to go the eSports route. 

        • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

          Daigo is a nurse, he comes from a family of doctors and that is his career when all this over. This is not about money, Daigo loves the games he plays. Would you really give up a doctor’s salary to play games if you were in it for the cash?

        • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

          Daigo is a nurse, he comes from a family of doctors and that is his career when all this over. This is not about money, Daigo loves the games he plays. Would you really give up a doctor’s salary to play games if you were in it for the cash?

        • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

          Daigo is a nurse, he comes from a family of doctors and that is his career when all this over. This is not about money, Daigo loves the games he plays. Would you really give up a doctor’s salary to play games if you were in it for the cash?

    • hknishino

       Hallmark of a charlatan: Waving cash in your face to distract you from the other important issues need to be settled.

    • hknishino

       Hallmark of a charlatan: Waving cash in your face to distract you from the other important issues need to be settled.

    • hknishino

       Hallmark of a charlatan: Waving cash in your face to distract you from the other important issues need to be settled.

    • hknishino

       Hallmark of a charlatan: Waving cash in your face to distract you from the other important issues need to be settled.

    • hknishino

       Hallmark of a charlatan: Waving cash in your face to distract you from the other important issues need to be settled.

    • hknishino

       Hallmark of a charlatan: Waving cash in your face to distract you from the other important issues need to be settled.

    • hknishino

       Hallmark of a charlatan: Waving cash in your face to distract you from the other important issues need to be settled.

    • hknishino

       Hallmark of a charlatan: Waving cash in your face to distract you from the other important issues need to be settled.

  • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

    Everyone else covers a lot of my opinions but I disagree with your rejection of proven successful models.   I wouldn’t (and I find it sad that anyone would…) try to argue that the whole community needs to change their attitude or the way they work or that hype should be diminished in any way.  I also agree that EVO is the hypest competitive gaming event the world’s ever seen.   But the truth of the matter is, the way things are right now is hindering growth.  Big sponsorship dollars are there for the taking….

    My theory is that eventually competitive players & commentators will “wake up” and realize they are missing out on a ton of sponsorship money and will begin to adjust the way they think / what they demand of teams / events.   

    It is literally an outrage that these top players you see traveling all around the country (and the world) have to have dayjobs/oddjobs/football betting (cough Team Marn) /etc to maintain their lifestyle.  They should be living like the kings they are with 1000s of legit fans, twitter followers, stream viewers, supporters…  You don’t have to change or put your faith into a scary organization to get there, just open your mind a little bit and stop focusing on ancient history.

    We could literally have 2 streams dedicated for every game, with all your favorite commentators and international players, at every major…  (this is the norm in eSports)

  • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

    I think they’re afraid of the FGC and want us to join them before they have to join us. Look how big we’ve gotten without asking developers/publishers to pitch in money. We did it ourselves, we enjoyed the games and wanted to share the joy with others and we were able to do just that. Now it’s becoming profitable and marketable so now a bunch of hands are coming for a piece. We got Madcatz to make sticks for fighting games and then MLG wanted a piece of that so they got some MLG fightsticks. They are lagging behind us with all that money and corporate nonsense and they don’t like that how we’ve gotten with just determination.

  • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

    I think they’re afraid of the FGC and want us to join them before they have to join us. Look how big we’ve gotten without asking developers/publishers to pitch in money. We did it ourselves, we enjoyed the games and wanted to share the joy with others and we were able to do just that. Now it’s becoming profitable and marketable so now a bunch of hands are coming for a piece. We got Madcatz to make sticks for fighting games and then MLG wanted a piece of that so they got some MLG fightsticks. They are lagging behind us with all that money and corporate nonsense and they don’t like that how we’ve gotten with just determination.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Walter-Thomas/100000923690574 Walter Thomas

      Thats the part I don’t understand, why can’t the MLG either hire a FCG consultant or just ask  the scene how they can be down for the cause.

      Is it some weird ignorance or pride issue, I personally still don’t know the exact definition of what “Being Free” means (I assume free = afraid/easy to defeat) is it a language barrier  we are dealing with, a culture barrier or both?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Walter-Thomas/100000923690574 Walter Thomas

      Thats the part I don’t understand, why can’t the MLG either hire a FCG consultant or just ask  the scene how they can be down for the cause.

      Is it some weird ignorance or pride issue, I personally still don’t know the exact definition of what “Being Free” means (I assume free = afraid/easy to defeat) is it a language barrier  we are dealing with, a culture barrier or both?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Walter-Thomas/100000923690574 Walter Thomas

      Thats the part I don’t understand, why can’t the MLG either hire a FCG consultant or just ask  the scene how they can be down for the cause.

      Is it some weird ignorance or pride issue, I personally still don’t know the exact definition of what “Being Free” means (I assume free = afraid/easy to defeat) is it a language barrier  we are dealing with, a culture barrier or both?

      • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

        Fighting game culture. Cultures have their own jargon.

      • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

        Fighting game culture. Cultures have their own jargon.

      • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

        Fighting game culture. Cultures have their own jargon.

      • http://twitter.com/Spaceneil8 Neil Mehta

        They did that with Tekken and it went really well. The only reason SSF4 isn’t on the circuit is because of Capcom.

      • http://twitter.com/Spaceneil8 Neil Mehta

        They did that with Tekken and it went really well. The only reason SSF4 isn’t on the circuit is because of Capcom.

      • http://twitter.com/Spaceneil8 Neil Mehta

        They did that with Tekken and it went really well. The only reason SSF4 isn’t on the circuit is because of Capcom.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Walter-Thomas/100000923690574 Walter Thomas

      Thats the part I don’t understand, why can’t the MLG either hire a FCG consultant or just ask  the scene how they can be down for the cause.

      Is it some weird ignorance or pride issue, I personally still don’t know the exact definition of what “Being Free” means (I assume free = afraid/easy to defeat) is it a language barrier  we are dealing with, a culture barrier or both?

    • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

      It is so painful how remarkably little you understand about eSports… This isn’t a case of “us vs them” – you and others are failing to recognize there a rapidly growing contingent of SPECTATORS of all (or multiple, cross-genre) competitive games (having nothing to do with corporate nonsense..).  SirScoots is one.  I’m one.  We want maximum success in all games.  Success means higher level of competition, more international events, more opportunities for pros to dedicate themselves, more production value, more expert commentary (with actual respectable pay).. 

      • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

        You’re more worried about how to make it profitable, not better.

        • Anonymous

          I want it to be as competitive as possible, and that means pro players. Daigo right now is the only dude that I think of as being on the level of a Starcraft 2 player in terms of professionalism. Justin Wong is on the edge, but the vast majority of players who would rather be playing a game they love all the time as the dudes in Korea do in the team houses, are forced to work 9-5 instead and play in their spare time. 

          • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X
          • Anonymous

            It’s not about the money incentive at all, it’s just about the means to play a game for a living. I think that people wouldn’t want to do it to be rich- if I could play Street Fighter full time ie do what I love all the time, I would. 

          • Anonymous

            It’s not about the money incentive at all, it’s just about the means to play a game for a living. I think that people wouldn’t want to do it to be rich- if I could play Street Fighter full time ie do what I love all the time, I would. 

          • Anonymous

            It’s not about the money incentive at all, it’s just about the means to play a game for a living. I think that people wouldn’t want to do it to be rich- if I could play Street Fighter full time ie do what I love all the time, I would. 

          • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

            Are you aware of diminishing returns?

          • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X
        • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

          You’re wrong.  The money is just a facilitator.  It’s true that top pros and commentators/streamers deserve to be compensated for the amount of entertainment they’re generating.  I don’t know why you disagree with this and think ridiculously amazing superheroes like Spooky shouldn’t live comfortably.  

          But really what we fans want is a higher level of competition.  More prize money and more travel opportunity (and more events, for that matter) would all increase that, not diminish it.

        • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

          You’re wrong.  The money is just a facilitator.  It’s true that top pros and commentators/streamers deserve to be compensated for the amount of entertainment they’re generating.  I don’t know why you disagree with this and think ridiculously amazing superheroes like Spooky shouldn’t live comfortably.  

          But really what we fans want is a higher level of competition.  More prize money and more travel opportunity (and more events, for that matter) would all increase that, not diminish it.

        • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

          You’re wrong.  The money is just a facilitator.  It’s true that top pros and commentators/streamers deserve to be compensated for the amount of entertainment they’re generating.  I don’t know why you disagree with this and think ridiculously amazing superheroes like Spooky shouldn’t live comfortably.  

          But really what we fans want is a higher level of competition.  More prize money and more travel opportunity (and more events, for that matter) would all increase that, not diminish it.

        • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

          You’re wrong.  The money is just a facilitator.  It’s true that top pros and commentators/streamers deserve to be compensated for the amount of entertainment they’re generating.  I don’t know why you disagree with this and think ridiculously amazing superheroes like Spooky shouldn’t live comfortably.  

          But really what we fans want is a higher level of competition.  More prize money and more travel opportunity (and more events, for that matter) would all increase that, not diminish it.

        • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

          You’re wrong.  The money is just a facilitator.  It’s true that top pros and commentators/streamers deserve to be compensated for the amount of entertainment they’re generating.  I don’t know why you disagree with this and think ridiculously amazing superheroes like Spooky shouldn’t live comfortably.  

          But really what we fans want is a higher level of competition.  More prize money and more travel opportunity (and more events, for that matter) would all increase that, not diminish it.

        • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

          You’re wrong.  The money is just a facilitator.  It’s true that top pros and commentators/streamers deserve to be compensated for the amount of entertainment they’re generating.  I don’t know why you disagree with this and think ridiculously amazing superheroes like Spooky shouldn’t live comfortably.  

          But really what we fans want is a higher level of competition.  More prize money and more travel opportunity (and more events, for that matter) would all increase that, not diminish it.

      • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

        You’re more worried about how to make it profitable, not better.

      • Anonymous

        Define production value and expert commentary? That’s my main issue. One could say that someone like Yipes can’t do commentary depending on the “standards” set out by these events. The fact that these are run by people who are “one of us” is what makes fighting games so special. The FGC started out in arcades face-to-face. It’s shit-talking to your friend after you beat him an a FT10 and him wanting to run it back. It’s having wait your turn at the arcade after you just got bodied and getting mad because you don’t get your revenge because he lost to someone else. It’s a new guy coming into the arcade and getting 20 straight wins and everyone wanting to be the one who beats him. It’s playing a game for 12 hours straight with 10 of your friends. Those are the things that made the FGC what it is today and that’s still left in the current model. It’s that raw competitiveness that anyone can be apart of.

        FPS and RTS games are fundamentally different. It’s much more difficult for them to organize events logistically. If you want to have a fair RTS or FPS gaming get-together, you generally need multiple PCs, monitors, games, and space for all of that. In addition, you need a place that allows fair play (one where people can’t hear or see each other’s screens and interactions). That dedication has paid off and we all can see this. FGs are just more personal on the most basic level than these games that often have people playing online matches in a room alone. It’s not a bad thing and that’s why that “expert” commentary and production value don’t affect that community and actually fosters its growth. The problem is they don’t have the same roots as us so we shouldn’t aspire to be like them. They have a lot of desirable things but not all are what made the FGC what it is today. They had very different paths so why should they have the same destination. More money would be great if it went to the right people and let the FGC do what it has been doing for years. The current model fosters that “rawness” of the arcade days that we don’t get in arcades anymore.

      • Anonymous

        Define production value and expert commentary? That’s my main issue. One could say that someone like Yipes can’t do commentary depending on the “standards” set out by these events. The fact that these are run by people who are “one of us” is what makes fighting games so special. The FGC started out in arcades face-to-face. It’s shit-talking to your friend after you beat him an a FT10 and him wanting to run it back. It’s having wait your turn at the arcade after you just got bodied and getting mad because you don’t get your revenge because he lost to someone else. It’s a new guy coming into the arcade and getting 20 straight wins and everyone wanting to be the one who beats him. It’s playing a game for 12 hours straight with 10 of your friends. Those are the things that made the FGC what it is today and that’s still left in the current model. It’s that raw competitiveness that anyone can be apart of.

        FPS and RTS games are fundamentally different. It’s much more difficult for them to organize events logistically. If you want to have a fair RTS or FPS gaming get-together, you generally need multiple PCs, monitors, games, and space for all of that. In addition, you need a place that allows fair play (one where people can’t hear or see each other’s screens and interactions). That dedication has paid off and we all can see this. FGs are just more personal on the most basic level than these games that often have people playing online matches in a room alone. It’s not a bad thing and that’s why that “expert” commentary and production value don’t affect that community and actually fosters its growth. The problem is they don’t have the same roots as us so we shouldn’t aspire to be like them. They have a lot of desirable things but not all are what made the FGC what it is today. They had very different paths so why should they have the same destination. More money would be great if it went to the right people and let the FGC do what it has been doing for years. The current model fosters that “rawness” of the arcade days that we don’t get in arcades anymore.

      • hyerty

        Pretty sure there will be less international events. Just high paying ones that destroy the smaller events.

      • Anonymous

        Why should anyone in the community care what someone who doesn’t even go to tournaments thinks is best for the community?

      • Anonymous

        Why should anyone in the community care what someone who doesn’t even go to tournaments thinks is best for the community?

      • Anonymous

        Why should anyone in the community care what someone who doesn’t even go to tournaments thinks is best for the community?

      • Anonymous

        Why should anyone in the community care what someone who doesn’t even go to tournaments thinks is best for the community?

    • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

      This isn’t a slight at all, but what you’re saying sounds a whole lot like what the Smash community was saying back when “Smash at Evo” was still a relevant topic.  The perception was that the FGC (which was pre-SF4) not only wanted to capitalize on the success of the Smash community, but didn’t even have the respect to let them handle things the way they’d proven to work for years (and then Brawl was at Evo and was a disaster, etc. etc.).

      I don’t know, just food for thought I guess 

    • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

      This isn’t a slight at all, but what you’re saying sounds a whole lot like what the Smash community was saying back when “Smash at Evo” was still a relevant topic.  The perception was that the FGC (which was pre-SF4) not only wanted to capitalize on the success of the Smash community, but didn’t even have the respect to let them handle things the way they’d proven to work for years (and then Brawl was at Evo and was a disaster, etc. etc.).

      I don’t know, just food for thought I guess 

    • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

      This isn’t a slight at all, but what you’re saying sounds a whole lot like what the Smash community was saying back when “Smash at Evo” was still a relevant topic.  The perception was that the FGC (which was pre-SF4) not only wanted to capitalize on the success of the Smash community, but didn’t even have the respect to let them handle things the way they’d proven to work for years (and then Brawl was at Evo and was a disaster, etc. etc.).

      I don’t know, just food for thought I guess 

    • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

      This isn’t a slight at all, but what you’re saying sounds a whole lot like what the Smash community was saying back when “Smash at Evo” was still a relevant topic.  The perception was that the FGC (which was pre-SF4) not only wanted to capitalize on the success of the Smash community, but didn’t even have the respect to let them handle things the way they’d proven to work for years (and then Brawl was at Evo and was a disaster, etc. etc.).

      I don’t know, just food for thought I guess 

  • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

    I think they’re afraid of the FGC and want us to join them before they have to join us. Look how big we’ve gotten without asking developers/publishers to pitch in money. We did it ourselves, we enjoyed the games and wanted to share the joy with others and we were able to do just that. Now it’s becoming profitable and marketable so now a bunch of hands are coming for a piece. We got Madcatz to make sticks for fighting games and then MLG wanted a piece of that so they got some MLG fightsticks. They are lagging behind us with all that money and corporate nonsense and they don’t like that how we’ve gotten with just determination.

  • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

    I think they’re afraid of the FGC and want us to join them before they have to join us. Look how big we’ve gotten without asking developers/publishers to pitch in money. We did it ourselves, we enjoyed the games and wanted to share the joy with others and we were able to do just that. Now it’s becoming profitable and marketable so now a bunch of hands are coming for a piece. We got Madcatz to make sticks for fighting games and then MLG wanted a piece of that so they got some MLG fightsticks. They are lagging behind us with all that money and corporate nonsense and they don’t like that how we’ve gotten with just determination.

  • http://twitter.com/suparnovax L

    Should be #FuckSirScoots, not #FuckEsports

  • http://twitter.com/feminine_odor hitler fucker

    You need to chill out homie

  • http://twitter.com/feminine_odor hitler fucker

    You need to chill out homie

  • http://twitter.com/feminine_odor hitler fucker

    You need to chill out homie

  • http://twitter.com/feminine_odor hitler fucker

    You need to chill out homie

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Zee/1126663753 Tom Zee

    Arcade fighters suffer disproportionally more than any other genre from having a history of poor online experiences ranging from simple lag, to a lack of public lobbies to the fact that no one has been able to perfectly replicate the offline experience online, this kills the casual community for many arcade fighting games, and that is the community which eventually you get your tournament community from

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=761175295 Chris DigitalPhoenix Oakley

    Anyone else think SirScoots is nothing more than a greedy, self-serving tool after watching that rant? Not hating on the EG players here, but when your “Boss” goes off on a rant that essentially puts the FGC on blast, it looks REALLY bad for not only the players individually, but the team as a whole.

    • Anonymous

      I think the boss just want his players to able to make a living doing what they love, playing games. Does that REALLY look that bad?

      • http://twitter.com/CitizenCIA_SF Jeremy Sherman

        It could really be twisted both ways. I mean, if his players are making a better living, then so is he, right? And maybe he’s a generally legit guy, cool as they come, I dunno. But I think to most of us, he comes off looking..scam-y?

    • Anonymous

      I think the boss just want his players to able to make a living doing what they love, playing games. Does that REALLY look that bad?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=761175295 Chris DigitalPhoenix Oakley

    Anyone else think SirScoots is nothing more than a greedy, self-serving tool after watching that rant? Not hating on the EG players here, but when your “Boss” goes off on a rant that essentially puts the FGC on blast, it looks REALLY bad for not only the players individually, but the team as a whole.

  • http://www.facebook.com/teysrol Shane Taylor

    Good shit. Interested to hear feedback on this from guys like Jebailey and the FR crew.

  • http://www.facebook.com/teysrol Shane Taylor

    Good shit. Interested to hear feedback on this from guys like Jebailey and the FR crew.

  • Anonymous

    With this ignorant line of thinking from the supposed voice of the Fighting Game Community, the best gamers in the world and the most competitive games in the world will not be found at FGC events, they will be playing games like Starcraft and competitive FPS.

    NEC was a great example this weekend. I really enjoyed watching it but SF4 AE finals didn’t end until after midnight EST. That is ridiculous and though sp00ky does a great job and I love his efforts, it does not TOUCH the production values of a Starcraft league such as GSL. The traditional model of “let’s play all the games people want to see on stream and run the entire tournament in 2 days” is cracking under the increased numbers of players entering these tournaments. Even the weeklys (Guard Crush and Wednesday Night Fights) are running so late that commentators, that great commentary duo of James Chen and Ultradavid(pros, right?) spend much more time loudly complaining about how late the final matches are and that they hope things don’t get reset and want everything to get wrapped up, rather than commentate on the quality of the matches.

    Fight game events have a lot to gain from trying out a different format, perhaps one established by other competitive games, and people such as the author of this article seek to limit how great it can become.

  • Anonymous

    With this ignorant line of thinking from the supposed voice of the Fighting Game Community, the best gamers in the world and the most competitive games in the world will not be found at FGC events, they will be playing games like Starcraft and competitive FPS.

    NEC was a great example this weekend. I really enjoyed watching it but SF4 AE finals didn’t end until after midnight EST. That is ridiculous and though sp00ky does a great job and I love his efforts, it does not TOUCH the production values of a Starcraft league such as GSL. The traditional model of “let’s play all the games people want to see on stream and run the entire tournament in 2 days” is cracking under the increased numbers of players entering these tournaments. Even the weeklys (Guard Crush and Wednesday Night Fights) are running so late that commentators, that great commentary duo of James Chen and Ultradavid(pros, right?) spend much more time loudly complaining about how late the final matches are and that they hope things don’t get reset and want everything to get wrapped up, rather than commentate on the quality of the matches.

    Fight game events have a lot to gain from trying out a different format, perhaps one established by other competitive games, and people such as the author of this article seek to limit how great it can become.

  • Anonymous

    With this ignorant line of thinking from the supposed voice of the Fighting Game Community, the best gamers in the world and the most competitive games in the world will not be found at FGC events, they will be playing games like Starcraft and competitive FPS.

    NEC was a great example this weekend. I really enjoyed watching it but SF4 AE finals didn’t end until after midnight EST. That is ridiculous and though sp00ky does a great job and I love his efforts, it does not TOUCH the production values of a Starcraft league such as GSL. The traditional model of “let’s play all the games people want to see on stream and run the entire tournament in 2 days” is cracking under the increased numbers of players entering these tournaments. Even the weeklys (Guard Crush and Wednesday Night Fights) are running so late that commentators, that great commentary duo of James Chen and Ultradavid(pros, right?) spend much more time loudly complaining about how late the final matches are and that they hope things don’t get reset and want everything to get wrapped up, rather than commentate on the quality of the matches.

    Fight game events have a lot to gain from trying out a different format, perhaps one established by other competitive games, and people such as the author of this article seek to limit how great it can become.

  • Anonymous

    With this ignorant line of thinking from the supposed voice of the Fighting Game Community, the best gamers in the world and the most competitive games in the world will not be found at FGC events, they will be playing games like Starcraft and competitive FPS.

    NEC was a great example this weekend. I really enjoyed watching it but SF4 AE finals didn’t end until after midnight EST. That is ridiculous and though sp00ky does a great job and I love his efforts, it does not TOUCH the production values of a Starcraft league such as GSL. The traditional model of “let’s play all the games people want to see on stream and run the entire tournament in 2 days” is cracking under the increased numbers of players entering these tournaments. Even the weeklys (Guard Crush and Wednesday Night Fights) are running so late that commentators, that great commentary duo of James Chen and Ultradavid(pros, right?) spend much more time loudly complaining about how late the final matches are and that they hope things don’t get reset and want everything to get wrapped up, rather than commentate on the quality of the matches.

    Fight game events have a lot to gain from trying out a different format, perhaps one established by other competitive games, and people such as the author of this article seek to limit how great it can become.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Q5JUJO4E36GYHZFWX4BL72OT6I P S

    Wow, SirSalt there really makes an impression there, and not as great one. He basically just said “Hey fighting game community enjoy your little playtime together at the kids table. Now shush up cause the grownups are talking here.”

    What an ass.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Q5JUJO4E36GYHZFWX4BL72OT6I P S

    Wow, SirSalt there really makes an impression there, and not as great one. He basically just said “Hey fighting game community enjoy your little playtime together at the kids table. Now shush up cause the grownups are talking here.”

    What an ass.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Q5JUJO4E36GYHZFWX4BL72OT6I P S

    Wow, SirSalt there really makes an impression there, and not as great one. He basically just said “Hey fighting game community enjoy your little playtime together at the kids table. Now shush up cause the grownups are talking here.”

    What an ass.

    • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

      That’s why it’s called no fluff.  This isn’t the first time this topic has been discussed on the show either, if that wasn’t obvious.  Check out Cross Counter TV if you like fluff.

      • Anonymous

        You can call it whatever you want, but what he did was go online, on a stream that everyone can see, and act like an asshole. I don’t know about you, but when you’re a “representative” of an entire community, you should have a standard that you hold yourself to as far as public appearances go and that was downright embarrassing.

    • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

      That’s why it’s called no fluff.  This isn’t the first time this topic has been discussed on the show either, if that wasn’t obvious.  Check out Cross Counter TV if you like fluff.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Q5JUJO4E36GYHZFWX4BL72OT6I P S

    Wow, SirSalt there really makes an impression there, and not as great one. He basically just said “Hey fighting game community enjoy your little playtime together at the kids table. Now shush up cause the grownups are talking here.”

    What an ass.

  • http://twitter.com/Zero_The_Shadow Zero Hikari

    When Tekken 6 was on it’s last leg? The MLG season ran LAST YEAR, you know the same damn year Tekken 6 was released on console. How the hell was the game on it’s last leg? BTW MLG was most professional and well run tournament I’ve ever been to and I’ve been to EVO it can’t compete.

    • http://www.facebook.com/chriscruz Chris Cruz

      I agree 100%. I went to both MLG and EVO and as far as production and professionalism… EVO cannot touch MLG (even though EVO was more fun because of the overall FGC hype and it was in Vegas after all)

      I love how the article blames MLG for dropping Tekken when it’s the god damn FGC’s fault that Tekken didn’t survive. Instead of showing support for the game, all I saw were salt-induced diatribes from Capcom fanboys– probably the same fanboys constantly b*tching on FG streams everytime a non-Capcom game is up.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-A-Brown-II/100000094929489 Michael A. Brown II

        Thing is there was hype for the “next” season. I feel if they gave Tekken 6 one more season, they would’ve pulled the numbers they wanted. They didn’t give us that chance.

      • http://twitter.com/CitizenCIA_SF Jeremy Sherman

        Stream monsters should not be taken into account..ever. The problem is the monsters who watch streams and don’t really play, aside from being online warriors, are being confused with the people who actually go out to tournaments, and participate in events locally, and nationwide. 

      • http://twitter.com/CitizenCIA_SF Jeremy Sherman

        Stream monsters should not be taken into account..ever. The problem is the monsters who watch streams and don’t really play, aside from being online warriors, are being confused with the people who actually go out to tournaments, and participate in events locally, and nationwide. 

      • http://twitter.com/CitizenCIA_SF Jeremy Sherman

        Stream monsters should not be taken into account..ever. The problem is the monsters who watch streams and don’t really play, aside from being online warriors, are being confused with the people who actually go out to tournaments, and participate in events locally, and nationwide. 

      • http://twitter.com/CitizenCIA_SF Jeremy Sherman

        Stream monsters should not be taken into account..ever. The problem is the monsters who watch streams and don’t really play, aside from being online warriors, are being confused with the people who actually go out to tournaments, and participate in events locally, and nationwide. 

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

      If you enjoy Tekken, you play Tekken, you support Tekken, it’s that simple. Blaming others for not enjoying Tekken? C’mon son.

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

      If you enjoy Tekken, you play Tekken, you support Tekken, it’s that simple. Blaming others for not enjoying Tekken? C’mon son.

      • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

        The same argument can be made for other genres beyond fighting games.

        So no one should get their briefs in a knot just because fans at Dreamhack wanted to see Starcraft 2 instead of a fighting game.

        Son.

      • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

        The same argument can be made for other genres beyond fighting games.

        So no one should get their briefs in a knot just because fans at Dreamhack wanted to see Starcraft 2 instead of a fighting game.

        Son.

        • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

          What the hell is Dreamhack?

          • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

            It’s a cooking show.

          • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

            Why are you talking about a cooking show?

          • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

            It’s a cooking show.

          • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

            It’s a cooking show.

      • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

        The same argument can be made for other genres beyond fighting games.

        So no one should get their briefs in a knot just because fans at Dreamhack wanted to see Starcraft 2 instead of a fighting game.

        Son.

      • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

        The same argument can be made for other genres beyond fighting games.

        So no one should get their briefs in a knot just because fans at Dreamhack wanted to see Starcraft 2 instead of a fighting game.

        Son.

  • http://twitter.com/Zero_The_Shadow Zero Hikari

    When Tekken 6 was on it’s last leg? The MLG season ran LAST YEAR, you know the same damn year Tekken 6 was released on console. How the hell was the game on it’s last leg? BTW MLG was most professional and well run tournament I’ve ever been to and I’ve been to EVO it can’t compete.

  • http://twitter.com/StafordsBees rs

    SC2 people only use the word “esports” seriously if there’s something to bitch about.  Otherwise it’s pretty much a big in-joke.

  • http://twitter.com/StafordsBees rs

    SC2 people only use the word “esports” seriously if there’s something to bitch about.  Otherwise it’s pretty much a big in-joke.

  • http://twitter.com/shoekage Juan Paolo Prudente

    I have recently believed that the FGC or any gaming community for that matter, can not only reach higher heights but eventually reach the level of appeal and money like professional poker.  Would anyone disagree that poker is no more athletic than playing SSFIV, I doubt it.  In many ways they share skill sets one would need for the stake at hand.  They also have the hype factor regarding the top players and personalities in their communities.  Both also have a massive tournament that culminates from the tournaments prior to it,  poker has the World Series and FGC has EVO.  However, they diverge when it comes to accessibility, not in joining tournaments, but in the game itself.  Poker became popular because an ordinary man named Chris Moneymaker won the Texas Hold’em grand prize in the World Series of Poker.  He qualified through an online tournament.  After this viewers realized that they too can do this if an everyman like Moneymaker can.  Our games can be overwhelming, even to gamers, but maybe a game will come along that changes that.
    However for the FGC to reach the popularity of professional poker a few things have to occur.  First, very big money has to be at stake, enough that every gamer or maybe non-gamer would be intrigued.  Second, whatever game ends up becoming Texas Hold’em has to be like Texas Hold’em in that the game can be picked up by anybody but have nuances that takes an investment of time to master.  Third, people would need to watch the hype and events unfold.  Streaming has made that absolutely possible, but those responsible for this level of a stream must be prepared with a high quality stream with little to no lag issues.  Finally, the FGC would need some type of catalyst to catch people’s attention as Moneymaker did, granted he had ESPN broadcast his victory.  But something like an unknown in the FGC winning EVO could do it, but that cannot be determined unless someone in EVO can see into the future.
    Gaming is eventually going to be recognized as a highly skilled competition and garner the respect of sponsors and spectators.  However, the FGC needs to continue building said community and find a way to grow beyond a “scene.”

  • http://twitter.com/shoekage Juan Paolo Prudente

    I have recently believed that the FGC or any gaming community for that matter, can not only reach higher heights but eventually reach the level of appeal and money like professional poker.  Would anyone disagree that poker is no more athletic than playing SSFIV, I doubt it.  In many ways they share skill sets one would need for the stake at hand.  They also have the hype factor regarding the top players and personalities in their communities.  Both also have a massive tournament that culminates from the tournaments prior to it,  poker has the World Series and FGC has EVO.  However, they diverge when it comes to accessibility, not in joining tournaments, but in the game itself.  Poker became popular because an ordinary man named Chris Moneymaker won the Texas Hold’em grand prize in the World Series of Poker.  He qualified through an online tournament.  After this viewers realized that they too can do this if an everyman like Moneymaker can.  Our games can be overwhelming, even to gamers, but maybe a game will come along that changes that.
    However for the FGC to reach the popularity of professional poker a few things have to occur.  First, very big money has to be at stake, enough that every gamer or maybe non-gamer would be intrigued.  Second, whatever game ends up becoming Texas Hold’em has to be like Texas Hold’em in that the game can be picked up by anybody but have nuances that takes an investment of time to master.  Third, people would need to watch the hype and events unfold.  Streaming has made that absolutely possible, but those responsible for this level of a stream must be prepared with a high quality stream with little to no lag issues.  Finally, the FGC would need some type of catalyst to catch people’s attention as Moneymaker did, granted he had ESPN broadcast his victory.  But something like an unknown in the FGC winning EVO could do it, but that cannot be determined unless someone in EVO can see into the future.
    Gaming is eventually going to be recognized as a highly skilled competition and garner the respect of sponsors and spectators.  However, the FGC needs to continue building said community and find a way to grow beyond a “scene.”

  • http://twitter.com/shoekage Juan Paolo Prudente

    I have recently believed that the FGC or any gaming community for that matter, can not only reach higher heights but eventually reach the level of appeal and money like professional poker.  Would anyone disagree that poker is no more athletic than playing SSFIV, I doubt it.  In many ways they share skill sets one would need for the stake at hand.  They also have the hype factor regarding the top players and personalities in their communities.  Both also have a massive tournament that culminates from the tournaments prior to it,  poker has the World Series and FGC has EVO.  However, they diverge when it comes to accessibility, not in joining tournaments, but in the game itself.  Poker became popular because an ordinary man named Chris Moneymaker won the Texas Hold’em grand prize in the World Series of Poker.  He qualified through an online tournament.  After this viewers realized that they too can do this if an everyman like Moneymaker can.  Our games can be overwhelming, even to gamers, but maybe a game will come along that changes that.
    However for the FGC to reach the popularity of professional poker a few things have to occur.  First, very big money has to be at stake, enough that every gamer or maybe non-gamer would be intrigued.  Second, whatever game ends up becoming Texas Hold’em has to be like Texas Hold’em in that the game can be picked up by anybody but have nuances that takes an investment of time to master.  Third, people would need to watch the hype and events unfold.  Streaming has made that absolutely possible, but those responsible for this level of a stream must be prepared with a high quality stream with little to no lag issues.  Finally, the FGC would need some type of catalyst to catch people’s attention as Moneymaker did, granted he had ESPN broadcast his victory.  But something like an unknown in the FGC winning EVO could do it, but that cannot be determined unless someone in EVO can see into the future.
    Gaming is eventually going to be recognized as a highly skilled competition and garner the respect of sponsors and spectators.  However, the FGC needs to continue building said community and find a way to grow beyond a “scene.”

    • hyerty

      The thing is that Texas Hold’em has a large luck factor if you play with an online player. They don’t fold anything. For a fighting game to have that much of a luck factor is not a fighting game.

  • http://twitter.com/shoekage Juan Paolo Prudente

    I have recently believed that the FGC or any gaming community for that matter, can not only reach higher heights but eventually reach the level of appeal and money like professional poker.  Would anyone disagree that poker is no more athletic than playing SSFIV, I doubt it.  In many ways they share skill sets one would need for the stake at hand.  They also have the hype factor regarding the top players and personalities in their communities.  Both also have a massive tournament that culminates from the tournaments prior to it,  poker has the World Series and FGC has EVO.  However, they diverge when it comes to accessibility, not in joining tournaments, but in the game itself.  Poker became popular because an ordinary man named Chris Moneymaker won the Texas Hold’em grand prize in the World Series of Poker.  He qualified through an online tournament.  After this viewers realized that they too can do this if an everyman like Moneymaker can.  Our games can be overwhelming, even to gamers, but maybe a game will come along that changes that.
    However for the FGC to reach the popularity of professional poker a few things have to occur.  First, very big money has to be at stake, enough that every gamer or maybe non-gamer would be intrigued.  Second, whatever game ends up becoming Texas Hold’em has to be like Texas Hold’em in that the game can be picked up by anybody but have nuances that takes an investment of time to master.  Third, people would need to watch the hype and events unfold.  Streaming has made that absolutely possible, but those responsible for this level of a stream must be prepared with a high quality stream with little to no lag issues.  Finally, the FGC would need some type of catalyst to catch people’s attention as Moneymaker did, granted he had ESPN broadcast his victory.  But something like an unknown in the FGC winning EVO could do it, but that cannot be determined unless someone in EVO can see into the future.
    Gaming is eventually going to be recognized as a highly skilled competition and garner the respect of sponsors and spectators.  However, the FGC needs to continue building said community and find a way to grow beyond a “scene.”

  • http://twitter.com/shoekage Juan Paolo Prudente

    I have recently believed that the FGC or any gaming community for that matter, can not only reach higher heights but eventually reach the level of appeal and money like professional poker.  Would anyone disagree that poker is no more athletic than playing SSFIV, I doubt it.  In many ways they share skill sets one would need for the stake at hand.  They also have the hype factor regarding the top players and personalities in their communities.  Both also have a massive tournament that culminates from the tournaments prior to it,  poker has the World Series and FGC has EVO.  However, they diverge when it comes to accessibility, not in joining tournaments, but in the game itself.  Poker became popular because an ordinary man named Chris Moneymaker won the Texas Hold’em grand prize in the World Series of Poker.  He qualified through an online tournament.  After this viewers realized that they too can do this if an everyman like Moneymaker can.  Our games can be overwhelming, even to gamers, but maybe a game will come along that changes that.
    However for the FGC to reach the popularity of professional poker a few things have to occur.  First, very big money has to be at stake, enough that every gamer or maybe non-gamer would be intrigued.  Second, whatever game ends up becoming Texas Hold’em has to be like Texas Hold’em in that the game can be picked up by anybody but have nuances that takes an investment of time to master.  Third, people would need to watch the hype and events unfold.  Streaming has made that absolutely possible, but those responsible for this level of a stream must be prepared with a high quality stream with little to no lag issues.  Finally, the FGC would need some type of catalyst to catch people’s attention as Moneymaker did, granted he had ESPN broadcast his victory.  But something like an unknown in the FGC winning EVO could do it, but that cannot be determined unless someone in EVO can see into the future.
    Gaming is eventually going to be recognized as a highly skilled competition and garner the respect of sponsors and spectators.  However, the FGC needs to continue building said community and find a way to grow beyond a “scene.”

  • http://twitter.com/shoekage Juan Paolo Prudente

    I have recently believed that the FGC or any gaming community for that matter, can not only reach higher heights but eventually reach the level of appeal and money like professional poker.  Would anyone disagree that poker is no more athletic than playing SSFIV, I doubt it.  In many ways they share skill sets one would need for the stake at hand.  They also have the hype factor regarding the top players and personalities in their communities.  Both also have a massive tournament that culminates from the tournaments prior to it,  poker has the World Series and FGC has EVO.  However, they diverge when it comes to accessibility, not in joining tournaments, but in the game itself.  Poker became popular because an ordinary man named Chris Moneymaker won the Texas Hold’em grand prize in the World Series of Poker.  He qualified through an online tournament.  After this viewers realized that they too can do this if an everyman like Moneymaker can.  Our games can be overwhelming, even to gamers, but maybe a game will come along that changes that.
    However for the FGC to reach the popularity of professional poker a few things have to occur.  First, very big money has to be at stake, enough that every gamer or maybe non-gamer would be intrigued.  Second, whatever game ends up becoming Texas Hold’em has to be like Texas Hold’em in that the game can be picked up by anybody but have nuances that takes an investment of time to master.  Third, people would need to watch the hype and events unfold.  Streaming has made that absolutely possible, but those responsible for this level of a stream must be prepared with a high quality stream with little to no lag issues.  Finally, the FGC would need some type of catalyst to catch people’s attention as Moneymaker did, granted he had ESPN broadcast his victory.  But something like an unknown in the FGC winning EVO could do it, but that cannot be determined unless someone in EVO can see into the future.
    Gaming is eventually going to be recognized as a highly skilled competition and garner the respect of sponsors and spectators.  However, the FGC needs to continue building said community and find a way to grow beyond a “scene.”

  • http://twitter.com/Zenmetsu89 Saba

    I agree with everything except for the Dreamhack part. I watched the archieved videos, and from what I could tell the stream was entirely run by players, so it’s not true that they didn’t listen to the community in that case. The quality of the commentary is arguable, but it didn’t seem all that bad to me.

  • http://twitter.com/Zenmetsu89 Saba

    I agree with everything except for the Dreamhack part. I watched the archieved videos, and from what I could tell the stream was entirely run by players, so it’s not true that they didn’t listen to the community in that case. The quality of the commentary is arguable, but it didn’t seem all that bad to me.

  • Anonymous

    lol master on blast

  • Anonymous

    lol master on blast

  • Anonymous

    lol master on blast

  • Anonymous

    lol master on blast

  • http://www.facebook.com/JayBeJay James Joseph

    I have no problem with FGC blowing it up into…*sigh* eSports god that name sounds retarded.. however I do want them to accept the FGC’s input on tournaments and not just ignore it for their own selfish needs.  I feel that until they listen to us and allow us to be creative, if they took over the FBC tournaments where we stand now FGC would be done in months.

    I know alot of people here are skeptical hippo’s about the whole situation and have every right to be but it won’t get better until we all work together, I’d love for it to blow up, see people be able to compete and do what they love all the time and get paid for it, it would be amazing.  It’s just not going to happen atmo.  FGC has come along way from what it was back in the day and sponsors are all over the place which is above and beyond amazing and great.

    I just wish we could expand and also the eSports people could open their eyes and let us grow with them and work side by side.  That’s what I want to see a co-existence.  That won’t happen until both sides can let go of the hate and just work together but will be a while me thinks.  Oh well a man can dream..

  • http://www.facebook.com/JayBeJay James Joseph

    I have no problem with FGC blowing it up into…*sigh* eSports god that name sounds retarded.. however I do want them to accept the FGC’s input on tournaments and not just ignore it for their own selfish needs.  I feel that until they listen to us and allow us to be creative, if they took over the FBC tournaments where we stand now FGC would be done in months.

    I know alot of people here are skeptical hippo’s about the whole situation and have every right to be but it won’t get better until we all work together, I’d love for it to blow up, see people be able to compete and do what they love all the time and get paid for it, it would be amazing.  It’s just not going to happen atmo.  FGC has come along way from what it was back in the day and sponsors are all over the place which is above and beyond amazing and great.

    I just wish we could expand and also the eSports people could open their eyes and let us grow with them and work side by side.  That’s what I want to see a co-existence.  That won’t happen until both sides can let go of the hate and just work together but will be a while me thinks.  Oh well a man can dream..

  • http://www.facebook.com/JayBeJay James Joseph

    I have no problem with FGC blowing it up into…*sigh* eSports god that name sounds retarded.. however I do want them to accept the FGC’s input on tournaments and not just ignore it for their own selfish needs.  I feel that until they listen to us and allow us to be creative, if they took over the FBC tournaments where we stand now FGC would be done in months.

    I know alot of people here are skeptical hippo’s about the whole situation and have every right to be but it won’t get better until we all work together, I’d love for it to blow up, see people be able to compete and do what they love all the time and get paid for it, it would be amazing.  It’s just not going to happen atmo.  FGC has come along way from what it was back in the day and sponsors are all over the place which is above and beyond amazing and great.

    I just wish we could expand and also the eSports people could open their eyes and let us grow with them and work side by side.  That’s what I want to see a co-existence.  That won’t happen until both sides can let go of the hate and just work together but will be a while me thinks.  Oh well a man can dream..

  • http://www.facebook.com/JayBeJay James Joseph

    I have no problem with FGC blowing it up into…*sigh* eSports god that name sounds retarded.. however I do want them to accept the FGC’s input on tournaments and not just ignore it for their own selfish needs.  I feel that until they listen to us and allow us to be creative, if they took over the FBC tournaments where we stand now FGC would be done in months.

    I know alot of people here are skeptical hippo’s about the whole situation and have every right to be but it won’t get better until we all work together, I’d love for it to blow up, see people be able to compete and do what they love all the time and get paid for it, it would be amazing.  It’s just not going to happen atmo.  FGC has come along way from what it was back in the day and sponsors are all over the place which is above and beyond amazing and great.

    I just wish we could expand and also the eSports people could open their eyes and let us grow with them and work side by side.  That’s what I want to see a co-existence.  That won’t happen until both sides can let go of the hate and just work together but will be a while me thinks.  Oh well a man can dream..

  • http://www.facebook.com/JayBeJay James Joseph

    I have no problem with FGC blowing it up into…*sigh* eSports god that name sounds retarded.. however I do want them to accept the FGC’s input on tournaments and not just ignore it for their own selfish needs.  I feel that until they listen to us and allow us to be creative, if they took over the FBC tournaments where we stand now FGC would be done in months.

    I know alot of people here are skeptical hippo’s about the whole situation and have every right to be but it won’t get better until we all work together, I’d love for it to blow up, see people be able to compete and do what they love all the time and get paid for it, it would be amazing.  It’s just not going to happen atmo.  FGC has come along way from what it was back in the day and sponsors are all over the place which is above and beyond amazing and great.

    I just wish we could expand and also the eSports people could open their eyes and let us grow with them and work side by side.  That’s what I want to see a co-existence.  That won’t happen until both sides can let go of the hate and just work together but will be a while me thinks.  Oh well a man can dream..

  • http://www.facebook.com/JayBeJay James Joseph

    I have no problem with FGC blowing it up into…*sigh* eSports god that name sounds retarded.. however I do want them to accept the FGC’s input on tournaments and not just ignore it for their own selfish needs.  I feel that until they listen to us and allow us to be creative, if they took over the FBC tournaments where we stand now FGC would be done in months.

    I know alot of people here are skeptical hippo’s about the whole situation and have every right to be but it won’t get better until we all work together, I’d love for it to blow up, see people be able to compete and do what they love all the time and get paid for it, it would be amazing.  It’s just not going to happen atmo.  FGC has come along way from what it was back in the day and sponsors are all over the place which is above and beyond amazing and great.

    I just wish we could expand and also the eSports people could open their eyes and let us grow with them and work side by side.  That’s what I want to see a co-existence.  That won’t happen until both sides can let go of the hate and just work together but will be a while me thinks.  Oh well a man can dream..

    • Anonymous

      Agreed 100% dude, I love watching competitive Starcraft 2 and I love watching competitive fighting games, honestly it’s the same type of chill people that compete, it’s so goofy for people to take an “us vs them” mentality

    • http://twitter.com/okuRakuu jj

      Wholeheartedly agree.  It’s true that this needs to be a compromise on both sides, I think this is where the defeatist attitude comes with Scoots.. It’s going to take a while before we have the true coexistence we fans of all “competitive gaming” would want.

  • http://www.facebook.com/JayBeJay James Joseph

    I have no problem with FGC blowing it up into…*sigh* eSports god that name sounds retarded.. however I do want them to accept the FGC’s input on tournaments and not just ignore it for their own selfish needs.  I feel that until they listen to us and allow us to be creative, if they took over the FBC tournaments where we stand now FGC would be done in months.

    I know alot of people here are skeptical hippo’s about the whole situation and have every right to be but it won’t get better until we all work together, I’d love for it to blow up, see people be able to compete and do what they love all the time and get paid for it, it would be amazing.  It’s just not going to happen atmo.  FGC has come along way from what it was back in the day and sponsors are all over the place which is above and beyond amazing and great.

    I just wish we could expand and also the eSports people could open their eyes and let us grow with them and work side by side.  That’s what I want to see a co-existence.  That won’t happen until both sides can let go of the hate and just work together but will be a while me thinks.  Oh well a man can dream..

  • spencer jones

    awesome article, if a bit grim. why cant we all just get along? :(

  • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X
    • Anonymous

      Can you show me some evidence that there are diminishing returns after the 3 hour per day mark?

      Also you suggested a false dichotomy in another post that players play “for the love of the game” or “for the money”, that they are somehow mutually exclusive.

      my argument is that being enabled to play full time offers more potential for a higher level of play than not being able to play full time

    • Anonymous

      Can you show me some evidence that there are diminishing returns after the 3 hour per day mark?

      Also you suggested a false dichotomy in another post that players play “for the love of the game” or “for the money”, that they are somehow mutually exclusive.

      my argument is that being enabled to play full time offers more potential for a higher level of play than not being able to play full time

    • Anonymous

      Can you show me some evidence that there are diminishing returns after the 3 hour per day mark?

      Also you suggested a false dichotomy in another post that players play “for the love of the game” or “for the money”, that they are somehow mutually exclusive.

      my argument is that being enabled to play full time offers more potential for a higher level of play than not being able to play full time

  • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X
  • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X
  • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X
  • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X
  • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X
  • Anonymous

    Ok so u EVO had more viewers then the LoL final or the first dota 2 tourney realy?? Realy?? And why should dreamhack invest in US commentators In a game that ain’t even big in Europe? It could’ve been huge if the “stars” would’ve been there but they didn’t come so why should DH offer a tourney with expensive top casters if the top stars ain’t there?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

      Isn’t the LoL final…um…questionable when it comes to viewers? Dota 2 tourney was pretty damn huge.

      • Anonymous

        How come?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

      Isn’t the LoL final…um…questionable when it comes to viewers? Dota 2 tourney was pretty damn huge.

  • Anonymous

    Ok so u EVO had more viewers then the LoL final or the first dota 2 tourney realy?? Realy?? And why should dreamhack invest in US commentators In a game that ain’t even big in Europe? It could’ve been huge if the “stars” would’ve been there but they didn’t come so why should DH offer a tourney with expensive top casters if the top stars ain’t there?

  • Anonymous

    Ok so u EVO had more viewers then the LoL final or the first dota 2 tourney realy?? Realy?? And why should dreamhack invest in US commentators In a game that ain’t even big in Europe? It could’ve been huge if the “stars” would’ve been there but they didn’t come so why should DH offer a tourney with expensive top casters if the top stars ain’t there?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Zachary-Winslett/1527215966 Zachary Winslett

    I’m not huge for non-developer corporate backing. I wish Capcom/Namco/any developer would try to create league based play for the game. Sort of like Konami does with Yu-gi-oh or something like that. 

    Not sure if it’s feasible for Capcom to do that themselves and provide the prize money people are looking for. Maybe with other sponsorship. I’d just hate to see things take a corporate swing. I don’t mean to be a hippie, but when things include the word “corporate” in them, it usually doesn’t turn out well.

    And I agree with the solemness of MLG events. It feels a tad too serious. I mean, I’ve watched NFL games that were more fun loving than certain MLG events.  

    • hyerty

      Maybe that’s what Capcom is going with the gems thing…doubt it though

  • Anonymous

    Just feel like posting this again:

    There seems to be a very huge disconnect between many in the FGC.  For
    one, it IS NOT THE SAME as SC2 and it should never never never never
    never be compared.  It’s like literally comparing apples to oranges.  As
    different as day and night.  Any one that assumes that a change in
    commentary to a strictly professional format will increase viewership,
    really needs to wake up and get their collective heads around the
    matter.

    Someone already mentioned it earlier, but viewership
    won’t simply increase because of commentator format changes.  Starcraft 2
    is huge around the world because it’s simply a game that way more
    people can enjoy on a tactical level.  I mean it’s so popular they teach
    a class on it at UC Berkeley.  Do you know any colleges anywhere in the
    world teaching a class on playing a video game?  One can boil down a
    fighting game down to a tactics level as well (hence the term “Yomi”),
    but SC2 is made for that and in fact takes the idea far.  And that’s why
    many enjoy it.  The commentary is seriously like watching poker matches
    as well– it sets the tone for a big build up to an epically placed
    move, to the culmination of a well planned out victory. 

    Fighting
    games is something many can enjoy on a casual level, but very few in
    the world can take seriously on any level past that.  Some simply can’t
    look past looking at two characters punching, kicking, slashing at each
    other on the screen.  In fact, a friend of mine who I recently got into
    watching TeamSp00ky streams could not believe that fighting games could
    be taken serious or have such crazy hype at tournaments.  In the FGC,
    the commentary is fast paced and often in your face, even for our less
    hype commentators, such as James Chen and UltraDavid.  In a fighting
    game where each move is quickly hammered out, it’s obvious that even on a
    basic level of commentating, you have to keep going, and use whatever
    [FG] jargon you can to keep the pace going and set the tone for the
    viewer, then explain a bit more in depth in between matches or during
    roll call on brackets.  James Chen is very good for this.  And despite
    his rants on some SSF4 characters, he knows a good deal about the
    metagame, and often tries to give the viewer insight on the player’s
    minds.  Then you have commentators like Seth Killian, where while he
    isn’t as closely connected to the scene as other commentators anymore,
    he has in-depth (and sometimes hidden) knowledge about the [Capcom]
    games he commentates on.

    Then there’s another format of
    commentary that’s brought to the table in the FGC.  Hype commentary. 
    The talk shit, in your face, fuck everybody, lets go hype.  Only this
    type of commentary can be born from playing fighting games, because face
    it, almost everyone at some point has talked shit to their opponent on
    some level while playing a fighter at home or their friends house or
    what have you in the past.  This is expounded on a streaming level, and
    makes exciting, crazy, interesting, and flavored matches all the more
    enjoyable match to watch.  Anyone remember how crazy the Viscant vs
    Jago’s Marvel 3 set matches were at this years Season’s Beatings?  How
    about the “Good vs Evil” Marvel 3 set?  Try remembering those matches
    without the commentary of Yipes going in.  It might be hard for most,
    because that flavor of commentary simply made for an exciting match that
    set the tone and couldn’t have been the same without it.  Marvel 2
    would not have been the same without this.  Also I personally believe
    that Marvel 3 would not have been possible without the culture that was
    born from commentary of this nature. It would be detrimental to the FGC
    if this was killed off.

    Aside from that, regardless if you like
    it or not, Stream Monsters has to be the single best thing for the
    community, regardless if some within the chat being racist, sexist,
    biased, or homophobic for the sake of being assholes/retarded/funny, or
    what have you.  There’s a reason why Sp00ky always gives love and
    shoutouts to the Stream Monsters.  He cannot do what he does without the
    love and hype these anonymous on-lookers bring to the table.  They keep
    the hype going, they keep the drama going, they bring the donations,
    and the give love back for a good stream.  (Unless it randomly dies,
    then it’s “OMG CALL SPOOKY WTF”).  If you don’t like Stream Monsters
    blowing up the chat, use the function to pop the chat out and close it,
    and enjoy watching the matches without.  Or use fullscreen.

    Regardless,
    the Fighting Game Community is growing steadily.  EVO 2011 the single
    best example for that.  However, I sincerely believe that changing
    commentary so it’s similar to SC2′s format will do nothing at all.

    And lets be serious.  We do need to pull it back together as a community.  I agree for sure that some top players deserve a bit more money than what they are getting, but at the same time as a community we can do a better job of making for a professional experience, while maintaining hype and keeping the train rolling.  Small things like keeping brackets in order, planning for decent venues, and continuing to push game publishers for better sponsorships.  Shoutouts to people like Markman that continues to stay close to the community.  Where you at these days, S-Kill?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

      This wall of text is so well written it’s almost an article. Well said.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

      This wall of text is so well written it’s almost an article. Well said.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

      This wall of text is so well written it’s almost an article. Well said.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

      This wall of text is so well written it’s almost an article. Well said.

    • http://twitter.com/CEOJebailey Alex Jebailey

      Whomever you are, color me impressed for one of the best comments in here I just had to let you know.

      • Anonymous

        Many thanks bro. 

        I’m just a humble fan of these games as much as you are.  It’s still a topic that should be debated and not swept under the rug as some people try to do.  And we lovers of the FGC should continue to be active in the discussion, instead of listening to the overarching of a select few.

        This is how we further the community into something big.  Kudos to guys like you as well CEO, guys who continue to do what you do for the good of our community.

  • Anonymous

    Just feel like posting this again:

    There seems to be a very huge disconnect between many in the FGC.  For
    one, it IS NOT THE SAME as SC2 and it should never never never never
    never be compared.  It’s like literally comparing apples to oranges.  As
    different as day and night.  Any one that assumes that a change in
    commentary to a strictly professional format will increase viewership,
    really needs to wake up and get their collective heads around the
    matter.

    Someone already mentioned it earlier, but viewership
    won’t simply increase because of commentator format changes.  Starcraft 2
    is huge around the world because it’s simply a game that way more
    people can enjoy on a tactical level.  I mean it’s so popular they teach
    a class on it at UC Berkeley.  Do you know any colleges anywhere in the
    world teaching a class on playing a video game?  One can boil down a
    fighting game down to a tactics level as well (hence the term “Yomi”),
    but SC2 is made for that and in fact takes the idea far.  And that’s why
    many enjoy it.  The commentary is seriously like watching poker matches
    as well– it sets the tone for a big build up to an epically placed
    move, to the culmination of a well planned out victory. 

    Fighting
    games is something many can enjoy on a casual level, but very few in
    the world can take seriously on any level past that.  Some simply can’t
    look past looking at two characters punching, kicking, slashing at each
    other on the screen.  In fact, a friend of mine who I recently got into
    watching TeamSp00ky streams could not believe that fighting games could
    be taken serious or have such crazy hype at tournaments.  In the FGC,
    the commentary is fast paced and often in your face, even for our less
    hype commentators, such as James Chen and UltraDavid.  In a fighting
    game where each move is quickly hammered out, it’s obvious that even on a
    basic level of commentating, you have to keep going, and use whatever
    [FG] jargon you can to keep the pace going and set the tone for the
    viewer, then explain a bit more in depth in between matches or during
    roll call on brackets.  James Chen is very good for this.  And despite
    his rants on some SSF4 characters, he knows a good deal about the
    metagame, and often tries to give the viewer insight on the player’s
    minds.  Then you have commentators like Seth Killian, where while he
    isn’t as closely connected to the scene as other commentators anymore,
    he has in-depth (and sometimes hidden) knowledge about the [Capcom]
    games he commentates on.

    Then there’s another format of
    commentary that’s brought to the table in the FGC.  Hype commentary. 
    The talk shit, in your face, fuck everybody, lets go hype.  Only this
    type of commentary can be born from playing fighting games, because face
    it, almost everyone at some point has talked shit to their opponent on
    some level while playing a fighter at home or their friends house or
    what have you in the past.  This is expounded on a streaming level, and
    makes exciting, crazy, interesting, and flavored matches all the more
    enjoyable match to watch.  Anyone remember how crazy the Viscant vs
    Jago’s Marvel 3 set matches were at this years Season’s Beatings?  How
    about the “Good vs Evil” Marvel 3 set?  Try remembering those matches
    without the commentary of Yipes going in.  It might be hard for most,
    because that flavor of commentary simply made for an exciting match that
    set the tone and couldn’t have been the same without it.  Marvel 2
    would not have been the same without this.  Also I personally believe
    that Marvel 3 would not have been possible without the culture that was
    born from commentary of this nature. It would be detrimental to the FGC
    if this was killed off.

    Aside from that, regardless if you like
    it or not, Stream Monsters has to be the single best thing for the
    community, regardless if some within the chat being racist, sexist,
    biased, or homophobic for the sake of being assholes/retarded/funny, or
    what have you.  There’s a reason why Sp00ky always gives love and
    shoutouts to the Stream Monsters.  He cannot do what he does without the
    love and hype these anonymous on-lookers bring to the table.  They keep
    the hype going, they keep the drama going, they bring the donations,
    and the give love back for a good stream.  (Unless it randomly dies,
    then it’s “OMG CALL SPOOKY WTF”).  If you don’t like Stream Monsters
    blowing up the chat, use the function to pop the chat out and close it,
    and enjoy watching the matches without.  Or use fullscreen.

    Regardless,
    the Fighting Game Community is growing steadily.  EVO 2011 the single
    best example for that.  However, I sincerely believe that changing
    commentary so it’s similar to SC2′s format will do nothing at all.

    And lets be serious.  We do need to pull it back together as a community.  I agree for sure that some top players deserve a bit more money than what they are getting, but at the same time as a community we can do a better job of making for a professional experience, while maintaining hype and keeping the train rolling.  Small things like keeping brackets in order, planning for decent venues, and continuing to push game publishers for better sponsorships.  Shoutouts to people like Markman that continues to stay close to the community.  Where you at these days, S-Kill?

  • Anonymous

    Just feel like posting this again:

    There seems to be a very huge disconnect between many in the FGC.  For
    one, it IS NOT THE SAME as SC2 and it should never never never never
    never be compared.  It’s like literally comparing apples to oranges.  As
    different as day and night.  Any one that assumes that a change in
    commentary to a strictly professional format will increase viewership,
    really needs to wake up and get their collective heads around the
    matter.

    Someone already mentioned it earlier, but viewership
    won’t simply increase because of commentator format changes.  Starcraft 2
    is huge around the world because it’s simply a game that way more
    people can enjoy on a tactical level.  I mean it’s so popular they teach
    a class on it at UC Berkeley.  Do you know any colleges anywhere in the
    world teaching a class on playing a video game?  One can boil down a
    fighting game down to a tactics level as well (hence the term “Yomi”),
    but SC2 is made for that and in fact takes the idea far.  And that’s why
    many enjoy it.  The commentary is seriously like watching poker matches
    as well– it sets the tone for a big build up to an epically placed
    move, to the culmination of a well planned out victory. 

    Fighting
    games is something many can enjoy on a casual level, but very few in
    the world can take seriously on any level past that.  Some simply can’t
    look past looking at two characters punching, kicking, slashing at each
    other on the screen.  In fact, a friend of mine who I recently got into
    watching TeamSp00ky streams could not believe that fighting games could
    be taken serious or have such crazy hype at tournaments.  In the FGC,
    the commentary is fast paced and often in your face, even for our less
    hype commentators, such as James Chen and UltraDavid.  In a fighting
    game where each move is quickly hammered out, it’s obvious that even on a
    basic level of commentating, you have to keep going, and use whatever
    [FG] jargon you can to keep the pace going and set the tone for the
    viewer, then explain a bit more in depth in between matches or during
    roll call on brackets.  James Chen is very good for this.  And despite
    his rants on some SSF4 characters, he knows a good deal about the
    metagame, and often tries to give the viewer insight on the player’s
    minds.  Then you have commentators like Seth Killian, where while he
    isn’t as closely connected to the scene as other commentators anymore,
    he has in-depth (and sometimes hidden) knowledge about the [Capcom]
    games he commentates on.

    Then there’s another format of
    commentary that’s brought to the table in the FGC.  Hype commentary. 
    The talk shit, in your face, fuck everybody, lets go hype.  Only this
    type of commentary can be born from playing fighting games, because face
    it, almost everyone at some point has talked shit to their opponent on
    some level while playing a fighter at home or their friends house or
    what have you in the past.  This is expounded on a streaming level, and
    makes exciting, crazy, interesting, and flavored matches all the more
    enjoyable match to watch.  Anyone remember how crazy the Viscant vs
    Jago’s Marvel 3 set matches were at this years Season’s Beatings?  How
    about the “Good vs Evil” Marvel 3 set?  Try remembering those matches
    without the commentary of Yipes going in.  It might be hard for most,
    because that flavor of commentary simply made for an exciting match that
    set the tone and couldn’t have been the same without it.  Marvel 2
    would not have been the same without this.  Also I personally believe
    that Marvel 3 would not have been possible without the culture that was
    born from commentary of this nature. It would be detrimental to the FGC
    if this was killed off.

    Aside from that, regardless if you like
    it or not, Stream Monsters has to be the single best thing for the
    community, regardless if some within the chat being racist, sexist,
    biased, or homophobic for the sake of being assholes/retarded/funny, or
    what have you.  There’s a reason why Sp00ky always gives love and
    shoutouts to the Stream Monsters.  He cannot do what he does without the
    love and hype these anonymous on-lookers bring to the table.  They keep
    the hype going, they keep the drama going, they bring the donations,
    and the give love back for a good stream.  (Unless it randomly dies,
    then it’s “OMG CALL SPOOKY WTF”).  If you don’t like Stream Monsters
    blowing up the chat, use the function to pop the chat out and close it,
    and enjoy watching the matches without.  Or use fullscreen.

    Regardless,
    the Fighting Game Community is growing steadily.  EVO 2011 the single
    best example for that.  However, I sincerely believe that changing
    commentary so it’s similar to SC2′s format will do nothing at all.

    And lets be serious.  We do need to pull it back together as a community.  I agree for sure that some top players deserve a bit more money than what they are getting, but at the same time as a community we can do a better job of making for a professional experience, while maintaining hype and keeping the train rolling.  Small things like keeping brackets in order, planning for decent venues, and continuing to push game publishers for better sponsorships.  Shoutouts to people like Markman that continues to stay close to the community.  Where you at these days, S-Kill?

  • http://twitter.com/md_nu m d nu

    #esports communities have too many closet racists in them. Every time the FGC is featured on LiveonThree, or even recently at Dreamhack, SC2 fans are quick to be shocked and appalled at the amount of minorities playing fighting games, and quite a few are quick to use all the racial slurs they have at their disposal.

  • http://twitter.com/md_nu m d nu

    #esports communities have too many closet racists in them. Every time the FGC is featured on LiveonThree, or even recently at Dreamhack, SC2 fans are quick to be shocked and appalled at the amount of minorities playing fighting games, and quite a few are quick to use all the racial slurs they have at their disposal.

    • Anonymous

      This is a naive viewpoint based on an anecdotal experience

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

        Stream monsters are stream monsters after all.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

        Stream monsters are stream monsters after all.

      • Anonymous

        Nah, having been around the FGC long before streams I agree with him.  You could even see this in some of our own splinter groups – the anime players would always make thinly-veiled racist jokes about MvC2.  And the esports demographic is a lot closer to that than to Capcom games’…

      • Anonymous

        Nah, having been around the FGC long before streams I agree with him.  You could even see this in some of our own splinter groups – the anime players would always make thinly-veiled racist jokes about MvC2.  And the esports demographic is a lot closer to that than to Capcom games’…

      • Anonymous

        Nah, having been around the FGC long before streams I agree with him.  You could even see this in some of our own splinter groups – the anime players would always make thinly-veiled racist jokes about MvC2.  And the esports demographic is a lot closer to that than to Capcom games’…

      • Anonymous

        Nah, having been around the FGC long before streams I agree with him.  You could even see this in some of our own splinter groups – the anime players would always make thinly-veiled racist jokes about MvC2.  And the esports demographic is a lot closer to that than to Capcom games’…

      • Anonymous

        Nah, having been around the FGC long before streams I agree with him.  You could even see this in some of our own splinter groups – the anime players would always make thinly-veiled racist jokes about MvC2.  And the esports demographic is a lot closer to that than to Capcom games’…

      • Anonymous

        Nah, having been around the FGC long before streams I agree with him.  You could even see this in some of our own splinter groups – the anime players would always make thinly-veiled racist jokes about MvC2.  And the esports demographic is a lot closer to that than to Capcom games’…

      • Anonymous

        Nah, having been around the FGC long before streams I agree with him.  You could even see this in some of our own splinter groups – the anime players would always make thinly-veiled racist jokes about MvC2.  And the esports demographic is a lot closer to that than to Capcom games’…

      • Anonymous

        Nah, having been around the FGC long before streams I agree with him.  You could even see this in some of our own splinter groups – the anime players would always make thinly-veiled racist jokes about MvC2.  And the esports demographic is a lot closer to that than to Capcom games’…

      • Anonymous

        Nah, having been around the FGC long before streams I agree with him.  You could even see this in some of our own splinter groups – the anime players would always make thinly-veiled racist jokes about MvC2.  And the esports demographic is a lot closer to that than to Capcom games’…

      • Anonymous

        Nah, having been around the FGC long before streams I agree with him.  You could even see this in some of our own splinter groups – the anime players would always make thinly-veiled racist jokes about MvC2.  And the esports demographic is a lot closer to that than to Capcom games’…

    • Anonymous

      This is a naive viewpoint based on an anecdotal experience

    • Anonymous

      This is a naive viewpoint based on an anecdotal experience

    • Anonymous

      I was gonna respond with something like “yeah and FG streams NEVER do that amirite?” but then I saw your avatar.

    • Anonymous

      I was gonna respond with something like “yeah and FG streams NEVER do that amirite?” but then I saw your avatar.

      • http://twitter.com/md_nu m d nu

        Believe me, when the SC2 fans started throwing epithets at Wolfkrone because starcraft wasn’t being shown on Liveonthree, It just bothered me to no end. These are the people we’re supposed to be looking up to? Really?

      • http://twitter.com/md_nu m d nu

        Believe me, when the SC2 fans started throwing epithets at Wolfkrone because starcraft wasn’t being shown on Liveonthree, It just bothered me to no end. These are the people we’re supposed to be looking up to? Really?

        • hyerty

          What gave you the thought that you had to look up to them?

        • hyerty

          What gave you the thought that you had to look up to them?

        • hyerty

          What gave you the thought that you had to look up to them?

        • hyerty

          What gave you the thought that you had to look up to them?

        • hyerty

          What gave you the thought that you had to look up to them?

        • hyerty

          What gave you the thought that you had to look up to them?

        • hyerty

          What gave you the thought that you had to look up to them?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OQNAQBWIVTWUN7MUTZIEBP5OAU Cristian

    call me cheesy but when i watch any FGC stream, i just feel like everyone’s one big family :)

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

      Everyone’s a brother/sister stream monster /Kappa

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

      Everyone’s a brother/sister stream monster /Kappa

  • http://twitter.com/otterxevo eh

    I agree that fighting fans should stand up and be proud of what we built. The first and best pvp game genre should not be begging for a sidecar spot.

    im tired of hearing about these bob costas wannabees for starcraft too. i respect their knowledge but we have our own memes, our own language, we have the hype. dont give all that up just to be chewed up and spit out by cooperate ass holes.

  • http://twitter.com/otterxevo eh

    I agree that fighting fans should stand up and be proud of what we built. The first and best pvp game genre should not be begging for a sidecar spot.

    im tired of hearing about these bob costas wannabees for starcraft too. i respect their knowledge but we have our own memes, our own language, we have the hype. dont give all that up just to be chewed up and spit out by cooperate ass holes.

  • http://twitter.com/otterxevo eh

    I agree that fighting fans should stand up and be proud of what we built. The first and best pvp game genre should not be begging for a sidecar spot.

    im tired of hearing about these bob costas wannabees for starcraft too. i respect their knowledge but we have our own memes, our own language, we have the hype. dont give all that up just to be chewed up and spit out by cooperate ass holes.

  • http://twitter.com/otterxevo eh

    I agree that fighting fans should stand up and be proud of what we built. The first and best pvp game genre should not be begging for a sidecar spot.

    im tired of hearing about these bob costas wannabees for starcraft too. i respect their knowledge but we have our own memes, our own language, we have the hype. dont give all that up just to be chewed up and spit out by cooperate ass holes.

  • Anonymous

    Here what I don’t get.  Why should the FGC intermix with eSports?  Why can’t it exist on its own?  Does the NFL, NBA, MLB, MLS have to intermix in order to be successful?  Yes the NFL is a billion dollar industry and MLS not as much but to the fan of their respected sports its equally fun.  MLS player dont make as much as NFL player but that’s ok isn’t it?

    Why does eSport think they have the “right” way on approaching the matter?  Just because they’re successful?  Just because their pros make 100k/yr? 

    Let the FGC find its own success.  Will it take the FGC longer to reach the success of the FPS/RTS community, of course.  Does it need to happen this year? No.

    And to eSports if they really believe in a “united gaming community” shouldn’t have its leaders like SirScoots bash the community by saying things like “little events.”  Just respect the community for what it is and let it grow at its own pace.

     

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Almeson-Hoku-James/100000479628267 Almeson Hoku James

      My point exactly but more well written.

    • Anonymous

      But see the traditional sports (NBA, NFL, etc), while not intermixing the actual games, intermix and share a lot of ideas and ways they are presented.

      -they all have a league culminating in a championship
      -they all have huge sponsorships
      -their players don’t have to have a secondary income
      -they are presented more or less professionally
      -their games are usually shown within their allotted time

      FG tourneys never EVER start on time, the players are usually late, the events run an hour or two past what they are supposed to, and sometime the most ignorant and vulgar people are allowed on the mic. 

      So I think the point is, the FGC doesn’t have to “become” the esports scene (just like the NFL hasn’t “become” the NBA) but there are some things that the FGC can borrow from them (the same way the NBA and NFL share the above qualities).

    • Anonymous

      But see the traditional sports (NBA, NFL, etc), while not intermixing the actual games, intermix and share a lot of ideas and ways they are presented.

      -they all have a league culminating in a championship
      -they all have huge sponsorships
      -their players don’t have to have a secondary income
      -they are presented more or less professionally
      -their games are usually shown within their allotted time

      FG tourneys never EVER start on time, the players are usually late, the events run an hour or two past what they are supposed to, and sometime the most ignorant and vulgar people are allowed on the mic. 

      So I think the point is, the FGC doesn’t have to “become” the esports scene (just like the NFL hasn’t “become” the NBA) but there are some things that the FGC can borrow from them (the same way the NBA and NFL share the above qualities).

    • Anonymous

      But see the traditional sports (NBA, NFL, etc), while not intermixing the actual games, intermix and share a lot of ideas and ways they are presented.

      -they all have a league culminating in a championship
      -they all have huge sponsorships
      -their players don’t have to have a secondary income
      -they are presented more or less professionally
      -their games are usually shown within their allotted time

      FG tourneys never EVER start on time, the players are usually late, the events run an hour or two past what they are supposed to, and sometime the most ignorant and vulgar people are allowed on the mic. 

      So I think the point is, the FGC doesn’t have to “become” the esports scene (just like the NFL hasn’t “become” the NBA) but there are some things that the FGC can borrow from them (the same way the NBA and NFL share the above qualities).

      • Anonymous

        You seem to forget that stream commentaries are new to the FGC.  The FGC is still trying to find its voice.  Commentators like James Chen, Skisonic, UltraDavid are doing a great job at being professional while still keeping the audience engaged.

        Are there ignorant and vulgar people that are on the mic… of course and in time those people will fade away.  But I think thats the evolution of a growing community that is learning to use live stream.

        As for tourney event starting on time… see Evo.  Recently they have been pretty much on point when it comes to having things happen on time.  Again this an evolutionary process as events gets larger and tournament organizers get accustom to larger crown, they’ll learn to manage time more effectively.

        These fans of eSports seems to forget that less than 10yrs ago EVO’s main games would have probably 160-200 entrants and now MvC3 had like 1300+.   

        Is the FGC getting better, yes, is it at the quality level that fans of eSports are use to, no.

        That doesnt mean that we have to give-in to how eSports does it. 

  • Anonymous

    Here what I don’t get.  Why should the FGC intermix with eSports?  Why can’t it exist on its own?  Does the NFL, NBA, MLB, MLS have to intermix in order to be successful?  Yes the NFL is a billion dollar industry and MLS not as much but to the fan of their respected sports its equally fun.  MLS player dont make as much as NFL player but that’s ok isn’t it?

    Why does eSport think they have the “right” way on approaching the matter?  Just because they’re successful?  Just because their pros make 100k/yr? 

    Let the FGC find its own success.  Will it take the FGC longer to reach the success of the FPS/RTS community, of course.  Does it need to happen this year? No.

    And to eSports if they really believe in a “united gaming community” shouldn’t have its leaders like SirScoots bash the community by saying things like “little events.”  Just respect the community for what it is and let it grow at its own pace.

     

  • Anonymous

    Here what I don’t get.  Why should the FGC intermix with eSports?  Why can’t it exist on its own?  Does the NFL, NBA, MLB, MLS have to intermix in order to be successful?  Yes the NFL is a billion dollar industry and MLS not as much but to the fan of their respected sports its equally fun.  MLS player dont make as much as NFL player but that’s ok isn’t it?

    Why does eSport think they have the “right” way on approaching the matter?  Just because they’re successful?  Just because their pros make 100k/yr? 

    Let the FGC find its own success.  Will it take the FGC longer to reach the success of the FPS/RTS community, of course.  Does it need to happen this year? No.

    And to eSports if they really believe in a “united gaming community” shouldn’t have its leaders like SirScoots bash the community by saying things like “little events.”  Just respect the community for what it is and let it grow at its own pace.

     

  • Anonymous

    Here what I don’t get.  Why should the FGC intermix with eSports?  Why can’t it exist on its own?  Does the NFL, NBA, MLB, MLS have to intermix in order to be successful?  Yes the NFL is a billion dollar industry and MLS not as much but to the fan of their respected sports its equally fun.  MLS player dont make as much as NFL player but that’s ok isn’t it?

    Why does eSport think they have the “right” way on approaching the matter?  Just because they’re successful?  Just because their pros make 100k/yr? 

    Let the FGC find its own success.  Will it take the FGC longer to reach the success of the FPS/RTS community, of course.  Does it need to happen this year? No.

    And to eSports if they really believe in a “united gaming community” shouldn’t have its leaders like SirScoots bash the community by saying things like “little events.”  Just respect the community for what it is and let it grow at its own pace.

     

  • Anonymous

    Here what I don’t get.  Why should the FGC intermix with eSports?  Why can’t it exist on its own?  Does the NFL, NBA, MLB, MLS have to intermix in order to be successful?  Yes the NFL is a billion dollar industry and MLS not as much but to the fan of their respected sports its equally fun.  MLS player dont make as much as NFL player but that’s ok isn’t it?

    Why does eSport think they have the “right” way on approaching the matter?  Just because they’re successful?  Just because their pros make 100k/yr? 

    Let the FGC find its own success.  Will it take the FGC longer to reach the success of the FPS/RTS community, of course.  Does it need to happen this year? No.

    And to eSports if they really believe in a “united gaming community” shouldn’t have its leaders like SirScoots bash the community by saying things like “little events.”  Just respect the community for what it is and let it grow at its own pace.

     

  • Anonymous

    Here what I don’t get.  Why should the FGC intermix with eSports?  Why can’t it exist on its own?  Does the NFL, NBA, MLB, MLS have to intermix in order to be successful?  Yes the NFL is a billion dollar industry and MLS not as much but to the fan of their respected sports its equally fun.  MLS player dont make as much as NFL player but that’s ok isn’t it?

    Why does eSport think they have the “right” way on approaching the matter?  Just because they’re successful?  Just because their pros make 100k/yr? 

    Let the FGC find its own success.  Will it take the FGC longer to reach the success of the FPS/RTS community, of course.  Does it need to happen this year? No.

    And to eSports if they really believe in a “united gaming community” shouldn’t have its leaders like SirScoots bash the community by saying things like “little events.”  Just respect the community for what it is and let it grow at its own pace.

     

  • Anonymous

    Here what I don’t get.  Why should the FGC intermix with eSports?  Why can’t it exist on its own?  Does the NFL, NBA, MLB, MLS have to intermix in order to be successful?  Yes the NFL is a billion dollar industry and MLS not as much but to the fan of their respected sports its equally fun.  MLS player dont make as much as NFL player but that’s ok isn’t it?

    Why does eSport think they have the “right” way on approaching the matter?  Just because they’re successful?  Just because their pros make 100k/yr? 

    Let the FGC find its own success.  Will it take the FGC longer to reach the success of the FPS/RTS community, of course.  Does it need to happen this year? No.

    And to eSports if they really believe in a “united gaming community” shouldn’t have its leaders like SirScoots bash the community by saying things like “little events.”  Just respect the community for what it is and let it grow at its own pace.

     

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul-Ky-Ngo/731184155 Paul Ky Ngo

    It’s pretty disgusting he feels this way about the FGC. It’s like a civil war in our own backyard. eSports vs FGC. To be completely frank, if it wasn’t for the exponential amount of feedback and communication the community has with each other, EVO wouldn’t be nearly as amazing as it already is. Now I haven’t been, until these past 5 years, nearly as interested in the FGC as I am now, but really? Virtua Fighter and  DOA? They would’ve had better luck with MSHvSF. Honestly, how do you pick two of the most underplayed(Don’t light me aflame, I’m not attacking the franchise) fighters, and then expect results.
    We’re a strong community and I have faith in it. If we’re destined to never be a eSport(I’d rather not personally, the term is geeky enough), and will be subjected to be as we are now, then in the words of John Lennon, and Paul McCartney, let it be!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Davi-Tesnovich/100000663183901 Davi Tesnovich

    I don’t really disagree with this post, but the spirit it was made in is bad.  Sure, we have a bad track record with eSports, and sure, it doesn’t make sense that the same thing they do exactly isn’t going to be the same thing that will work for us, but these negatively themed articles are only bad for us.  Wasn’t it your negative article in the first place that stoked the flames of this topic?

    Think about it objectively for a minute.  The FGC and eSports have roughly the same goal in mind.  We use the same equipment, and when you get down to it there’s not a lot of difference between us as personally motivated geeks.  This negative dialogue is hurting the already bad chances of us getting along and possibly helping each other.

    So yeah, they made shitty calls in the past.  Instead of harping on them for it, why don’t we take account of the situation?  Why don’t we let them know how it would’ve been successful, and express interest in working together for mutual benefit should thing be rectified?  We should have a positive, professional attitude, not this testosterone driven, flame war-esque mudslinging.

    There is NO benefit, mutual or otherwise, to ostracizing ourselves from them entirely.  We should view them positively, after all their situation isn’t that much different than ours, and we should give them props for the things they do well.

    Show them respect if you want respect.  This disrespectful, negative, lone wolf attitude is immature and shameful.  Players of the FGC in-fight, split the community, bash and flame each other.  That being said, we present ourselves to other communities in the same way now?

    If we wanna blow-up we should grow-up first.  If eSports are for us or not, this kind of thing should be totally unacceptable.  Maybe they didn’t help us yesterday, and it’s safe to say they’re not helping us much today, but we should be responsible and professional enough to keep our options open for tomorrow.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Davi-Tesnovich/100000663183901 Davi Tesnovich

    I don’t really disagree with this post, but the spirit it was made in is bad.  Sure, we have a bad track record with eSports, and sure, it doesn’t make sense that the same thing they do exactly isn’t going to be the same thing that will work for us, but these negatively themed articles are only bad for us.  Wasn’t it your negative article in the first place that stoked the flames of this topic?

    Think about it objectively for a minute.  The FGC and eSports have roughly the same goal in mind.  We use the same equipment, and when you get down to it there’s not a lot of difference between us as personally motivated geeks.  This negative dialogue is hurting the already bad chances of us getting along and possibly helping each other.

    So yeah, they made shitty calls in the past.  Instead of harping on them for it, why don’t we take account of the situation?  Why don’t we let them know how it would’ve been successful, and express interest in working together for mutual benefit should thing be rectified?  We should have a positive, professional attitude, not this testosterone driven, flame war-esque mudslinging.

    There is NO benefit, mutual or otherwise, to ostracizing ourselves from them entirely.  We should view them positively, after all their situation isn’t that much different than ours, and we should give them props for the things they do well.

    Show them respect if you want respect.  This disrespectful, negative, lone wolf attitude is immature and shameful.  Players of the FGC in-fight, split the community, bash and flame each other.  That being said, we present ourselves to other communities in the same way now?

    If we wanna blow-up we should grow-up first.  If eSports are for us or not, this kind of thing should be totally unacceptable.  Maybe they didn’t help us yesterday, and it’s safe to say they’re not helping us much today, but we should be responsible and professional enough to keep our options open for tomorrow.

    • hyerty

      What negative articles are you talking about?…like seriously

    • hyerty

      What negative articles are you talking about?…like seriously

      • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

        he’s referring to an article written by one of the new editors (not inkblot, though).

      • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

        he’s referring to an article written by one of the new editors (not inkblot, though).

      • http://twitter.com/Thiediev Kristoph

        he’s referring to an article written by one of the new editors (not inkblot, though).

    • http://www.facebook.com/everett.stephens Everett Stephens

      ::stands up and applauds::

    • http://www.facebook.com/everett.stephens Everett Stephens

      ::stands up and applauds::

    • http://twitter.com/TwitHatman TwitHatman

      “Show them respect if you want respect”

      Considering they don’t respect us… why should we respect them back? This works both ways.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Davi-Tesnovich/100000663183901 Davi Tesnovich

        That’s exactly what I’m talking about though.  It’s idiotic for our communities to be having this dressed-up flame war.  Somebody’s got to be the bigger man and get over it.  We have a solid foundation now – there’s no reason to continue being so salty about the history between us.

        It works both ways, so if somebody makes the first step it will likely be reciprocated.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Davi-Tesnovich/100000663183901 Davi Tesnovich

        That’s exactly what I’m talking about though.  It’s idiotic for our communities to be having this dressed-up flame war.  Somebody’s got to be the bigger man and get over it.  We have a solid foundation now – there’s no reason to continue being so salty about the history between us.

        It works both ways, so if somebody makes the first step it will likely be reciprocated.

    • http://twitter.com/TwitHatman TwitHatman

      “Show them respect if you want respect”

      Considering they don’t respect us… why should we respect them back? This works both ways.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Davi-Tesnovich/100000663183901 Davi Tesnovich

    I don’t really disagree with this post, but the spirit it was made in is bad.  Sure, we have a bad track record with eSports, and sure, it doesn’t make sense that the same thing they do exactly isn’t going to be the same thing that will work for us, but these negatively themed articles are only bad for us.  Wasn’t it your negative article in the first place that stoked the flames of this topic?

    Think about it objectively for a minute.  The FGC and eSports have roughly the same goal in mind.  We use the same equipment, and when you get down to it there’s not a lot of difference between us as personally motivated geeks.  This negative dialogue is hurting the already bad chances of us getting along and possibly helping each other.

    So yeah, they made shitty calls in the past.  Instead of harping on them for it, why don’t we take account of the situation?  Why don’t we let them know how it would’ve been successful, and express interest in working together for mutual benefit should thing be rectified?  We should have a positive, professional attitude, not this testosterone driven, flame war-esque mudslinging.

    There is NO benefit, mutual or otherwise, to ostracizing ourselves from them entirely.  We should view them positively, after all their situation isn’t that much different than ours, and we should give them props for the things they do well.

    Show them respect if you want respect.  This disrespectful, negative, lone wolf attitude is immature and shameful.  Players of the FGC in-fight, split the community, bash and flame each other.  That being said, we present ourselves to other communities in the same way now?

    If we wanna blow-up we should grow-up first.  If eSports are for us or not, this kind of thing should be totally unacceptable.  Maybe they didn’t help us yesterday, and it’s safe to say they’re not helping us much today, but we should be responsible and professional enough to keep our options open for tomorrow.

  • Anonymous

    Everything is fine until someone finds something better. Then, the world is changed forever.

    The fighting game scene will evolve one way or another. Just a question of how? Right now, the ball is in Evo/Capcom’s court but someday it might be someone else’s.

  • Anonymous

    Everything is fine until someone finds something better. Then, the world is changed forever.

    The fighting game scene will evolve one way or another. Just a question of how? Right now, the ball is in Evo/Capcom’s court but someday it might be someone else’s.

  • Anonymous

    Everything is fine until someone finds something better. Then, the world is changed forever.

    The fighting game scene will evolve one way or another. Just a question of how? Right now, the ball is in Evo/Capcom’s court but someday it might be someone else’s.

  • Anonymous

    Everything is fine until someone finds something better. Then, the world is changed forever.

    The fighting game scene will evolve one way or another. Just a question of how? Right now, the ball is in Evo/Capcom’s court but someday it might be someone else’s.

  • http://twitter.com/Rotendo Rodolfo Camarena

    An outstanding read.  I too, cant’ stand the term e-sports.  What is that, air hockey? Because that is what I think when I hear that term.  I don’t even consider Madden a true e-sports either. 

    Now I didn’t get to read all the response to the article, but I have read most of them and some of you make some valid points, while others made some and didn’t bother explaining it. I swear that I’m going to finish my own article soon so that I can get my points across when it comes to these gaming leagues, sponsorships, prize money, etc.  For now, I’ll just leave it as this… the FGC will not be seeing top players making the big money at majors and other big events any time soon. For that to happen, that publisher/developer must fully support their game(s) and the community more. – Yes, Capcom supports their games, but they aren’t cutting huge checks for all of them or even one of them for company thrown events.  Usually they are done as a collaboration with Capcom supplying builds of the games, booths, and setups.  I could be wrong, but that is something that could be answered by our own Seth Killian when he gets the chance.

  • Wild Wallice

    This is something I have found myself thinking of on and off every so often and I am happy that you illuminated the circumstances surrounding the attempted eSports collaborations in the past. I had heard they had gone sour, but didn’t know the details.

    Based on what I saw in that rant video and what I have seen in some of the comments on this, there seems to be a definite trend of arrogance on the part of eSports supporters. The FGC is just “too backward” or “ignorant.” These people are telling the FGC objectively what is best for them and we are spitting back in their faces without provocation. They really want us to succeed!

    Bullshit.

    This is an apples vs. oranges issue and its as simple as that. The mentality of each of these groups is different and is a function of how they formed and what they look to for inspiration. eSports came from lans and looks to Korean Starcraft for its model, and the FGC came from arcades and looks to …what? Japan? I don’t think they have televised matches there but I could be wrong. I would argue, though, that the FGC looks to itself. We have been responsible for all the shit we’ve done and we’ve come this far, and we’re pretty pleased with that. So we have quite a bit of our own arrogance too, and when someone else swaggers in and tells us that this what we should be like and that we should do this, that, and the other in order to be like them, we bristle at the suggestion.

    Each community grew in a different way and we were both successful, and now each is trying to swing it’s dick around and tell the other just how successful they are. The solution is to simply leave each other alone. But there are things they have that some of us want. I don’t think anyone can rightly say they wouldn’t want to have their air fare paid for when they travel cross-country or out of country to tournaments. Not having a day job certainly would be nice, I’d like to be supported by playing fighting games too. If I could do it I would. Not having to worry about earthly concerns such as “rent,” or “food,” certainly would allow players to reach a higher level of play, that’s true. So because eSports has solved these problems for their players, is it ok to say “lets be part of that?” No.

    Because doing that would mean us fitting in with THEM, which some of us can’t abide by, and a great many others probably don’t even care about one way or the other. I don’t think this issue is even on the minds of the people who come home from work and just want to beat the shit out of somebody in an online lobby for a couple hours. I don’t think the electrician who rolls into Family Fun on his break cares about whether the events are in MLG or not. They’ll still have their games, and they’ll still have their streams one way or the other.  But for those of us who look at eSports and recoil, I think it is simply because we would have to abide by their standards, their institutions, and their decisions and we find that unacceptable despite the glittering riches that lie down that path. We are different. That doesn’t mean our way of doing things is better, it doesn’t mean WE are better, and conversely it doesn’t mean they are either. We have the same goals, and the only difference is that they’ve achieved them and we haven’t. Yet.

    So I would say rather than selling ourselves to eSports in order to solve our problems like some seem advocate, we should work on solving these problems in our own way like we have before. If it is really that big of a deal with enough people, we should make our own league rather than try to join theirs. I would say we already have a skeleton present in the Evo and the associated “majors” anyway. If that is not financially possible now I am sure it will be in the future if our numbers continue to grow as they have. In the interim, I’m sure we can do without the plastic soundproof plastic booths and the fog machines. Why should MLG or the WCG be the only show in town? Some would say we aren’t getting there fast enough, well either get out there and help make it happen or fucking deal with it.

    We have the same goals, but we are different communities, apples to oranges. We should reach those goals separately, and most importantly we should govern in these matters. I personally wouldn’t want anybody like SirScoots running anything fighting game related other than the garbage collection, and I think the list of spectacular failures listed in the article is proof that eSports community would not be the best fit for us, at least in the short term. In the long term you’d have to ask yourself if we’d end up influencing them more or they end up influencing us, and whether or not you are ok with that. But remember, the grass always looks greener on the other side, till you have to live there and find out it’s astroturf.

  • Wild Wallice

    This is something I have found myself thinking of on and off every so often and I am happy that you illuminated the circumstances surrounding the attempted eSports collaborations in the past. I had heard they had gone sour, but didn’t know the details.

    Based on what I saw in that rant video and what I have seen in some of the comments on this, there seems to be a definite trend of arrogance on the part of eSports supporters. The FGC is just “too backward” or “ignorant.” These people are telling the FGC objectively what is best for them and we are spitting back in their faces without provocation. They really want us to succeed!

    Bullshit.

    This is an apples vs. oranges issue and its as simple as that. The mentality of each of these groups is different and is a function of how they formed and what they look to for inspiration. eSports came from lans and looks to Korean Starcraft for its model, and the FGC came from arcades and looks to …what? Japan? I don’t think they have televised matches there but I could be wrong. I would argue, though, that the FGC looks to itself. We have been responsible for all the shit we’ve done and we’ve come this far, and we’re pretty pleased with that. So we have quite a bit of our own arrogance too, and when someone else swaggers in and tells us that this what we should be like and that we should do this, that, and the other in order to be like them, we bristle at the suggestion.

    Each community grew in a different way and we were both successful, and now each is trying to swing it’s dick around and tell the other just how successful they are. The solution is to simply leave each other alone. But there are things they have that some of us want. I don’t think anyone can rightly say they wouldn’t want to have their air fare paid for when they travel cross-country or out of country to tournaments. Not having a day job certainly would be nice, I’d like to be supported by playing fighting games too. If I could do it I would. Not having to worry about earthly concerns such as “rent,” or “food,” certainly would allow players to reach a higher level of play, that’s true. So because eSports has solved these problems for their players, is it ok to say “lets be part of that?” No.

    Because doing that would mean us fitting in with THEM, which some of us can’t abide by, and a great many others probably don’t even care about one way or the other. I don’t think this issue is even on the minds of the people who come home from work and just want to beat the shit out of somebody in an online lobby for a couple hours. I don’t think the electrician who rolls into Family Fun on his break cares about whether the events are in MLG or not. They’ll still have their games, and they’ll still have their streams one way or the other.  But for those of us who look at eSports and recoil, I think it is simply because we would have to abide by their standards, their institutions, and their decisions and we find that unacceptable despite the glittering riches that lie down that path. We are different. That doesn’t mean our way of doing things is better, it doesn’t mean WE are better, and conversely it doesn’t mean they are either. We have the same goals, and the only difference is that they’ve achieved them and we haven’t. Yet.

    So I would say rather than selling ourselves to eSports in order to solve our problems like some seem advocate, we should work on solving these problems in our own way like we have before. If it is really that big of a deal with enough people, we should make our own league rather than try to join theirs. I would say we already have a skeleton present in the Evo and the associated “majors” anyway. If that is not financially possible now I am sure it will be in the future if our numbers continue to grow as they have. In the interim, I’m sure we can do without the plastic soundproof plastic booths and the fog machines. Why should MLG or the WCG be the only show in town? Some would say we aren’t getting there fast enough, well either get out there and help make it happen or fucking deal with it.

    We have the same goals, but we are different communities, apples to oranges. We should reach those goals separately, and most importantly we should govern in these matters. I personally wouldn’t want anybody like SirScoots running anything fighting game related other than the garbage collection, and I think the list of spectacular failures listed in the article is proof that eSports community would not be the best fit for us, at least in the short term. In the long term you’d have to ask yourself if we’d end up influencing them more or they end up influencing us, and whether or not you are ok with that. But remember, the grass always looks greener on the other side, till you have to live there and find out it’s astroturf.

  • Wild Wallice

    This is something I have found myself thinking of on and off every so often and I am happy that you illuminated the circumstances surrounding the attempted eSports collaborations in the past. I had heard they had gone sour, but didn’t know the details.

    Based on what I saw in that rant video and what I have seen in some of the comments on this, there seems to be a definite trend of arrogance on the part of eSports supporters. The FGC is just “too backward” or “ignorant.” These people are telling the FGC objectively what is best for them and we are spitting back in their faces without provocation. They really want us to succeed!

    Bullshit.

    This is an apples vs. oranges issue and its as simple as that. The mentality of each of these groups is different and is a function of how they formed and what they look to for inspiration. eSports came from lans and looks to Korean Starcraft for its model, and the FGC came from arcades and looks to …what? Japan? I don’t think they have televised matches there but I could be wrong. I would argue, though, that the FGC looks to itself. We have been responsible for all the shit we’ve done and we’ve come this far, and we’re pretty pleased with that. So we have quite a bit of our own arrogance too, and when someone else swaggers in and tells us that this what we should be like and that we should do this, that, and the other in order to be like them, we bristle at the suggestion.

    Each community grew in a different way and we were both successful, and now each is trying to swing it’s dick around and tell the other just how successful they are. The solution is to simply leave each other alone. But there are things they have that some of us want. I don’t think anyone can rightly say they wouldn’t want to have their air fare paid for when they travel cross-country or out of country to tournaments. Not having a day job certainly would be nice, I’d like to be supported by playing fighting games too. If I could do it I would. Not having to worry about earthly concerns such as “rent,” or “food,” certainly would allow players to reach a higher level of play, that’s true. So because eSports has solved these problems for their players, is it ok to say “lets be part of that?” No.

    Because doing that would mean us fitting in with THEM, which some of us can’t abide by, and a great many others probably don’t even care about one way or the other. I don’t think this issue is even on the minds of the people who come home from work and just want to beat the shit out of somebody in an online lobby for a couple hours. I don’t think the electrician who rolls into Family Fun on his break cares about whether the events are in MLG or not. They’ll still have their games, and they’ll still have their streams one way or the other.  But for those of us who look at eSports and recoil, I think it is simply because we would have to abide by their standards, their institutions, and their decisions and we find that unacceptable despite the glittering riches that lie down that path. We are different. That doesn’t mean our way of doing things is better, it doesn’t mean WE are better, and conversely it doesn’t mean they are either. We have the same goals, and the only difference is that they’ve achieved them and we haven’t. Yet.

    So I would say rather than selling ourselves to eSports in order to solve our problems like some seem advocate, we should work on solving these problems in our own way like we have before. If it is really that big of a deal with enough people, we should make our own league rather than try to join theirs. I would say we already have a skeleton present in the Evo and the associated “majors” anyway. If that is not financially possible now I am sure it will be in the future if our numbers continue to grow as they have. In the interim, I’m sure we can do without the plastic soundproof plastic booths and the fog machines. Why should MLG or the WCG be the only show in town? Some would say we aren’t getting there fast enough, well either get out there and help make it happen or fucking deal with it.

    We have the same goals, but we are different communities, apples to oranges. We should reach those goals separately, and most importantly we should govern in these matters. I personally wouldn’t want anybody like SirScoots running anything fighting game related other than the garbage collection, and I think the list of spectacular failures listed in the article is proof that eSports community would not be the best fit for us, at least in the short term. In the long term you’d have to ask yourself if we’d end up influencing them more or they end up influencing us, and whether or not you are ok with that. But remember, the grass always looks greener on the other side, till you have to live there and find out it’s astroturf.

  • Anonymous

    You throw around FGC as if it means shit. Just a bunch of mother fkers who play video games.

     eSports do as they chose to.

  • http://twitter.com/pcorkin Philip Corkin

    I have to laugh at the people saying SirScoots is only worried about making more money from the fighting scene, sure it may be part-true but the only way for him to make more money is for the players to make more money.

    He has been around a lot longer than most people and knows what it takes to run a successful team of players. If the fighting scene what to distance themselves from the eSports scene then that’s their own prerogative, you should be proud of what the FGC has achieved but the stubbornness to remain a niche community will mean that players are not only going to miss out on a huge fan base… players will miss the opportunity to earn more money from the bigger eSports organisations!

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

       It amuses me how 80% of the argument of those who wish the FGC to “Join” esports is “Top players will earn more money!”
      And then they wonder why they have an image problem. Guess what: Top players earning more money isnt a gigantic concern of the FGC. Would it be good? Yes. But it is not a huge part of what matters to the community, i believe.

  • http://twitter.com/pcorkin Philip Corkin

    I have to laugh at the people saying SirScoots is only worried about making more money from the fighting scene, sure it may be part-true but the only way for him to make more money is for the players to make more money.

    He has been around a lot longer than most people and knows what it takes to run a successful team of players. If the fighting scene what to distance themselves from the eSports scene then that’s their own prerogative, you should be proud of what the FGC has achieved but the stubbornness to remain a niche community will mean that players are not only going to miss out on a huge fan base… players will miss the opportunity to earn more money from the bigger eSports organisations!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Maurice-Fleshman/100001737340513 Maurice Fleshman

    The main thing I got from this article is….esports people do what they want with fighting games and don’t ask for our input. that’s the key point I’m getting out of this. Why aren’t you going to ask Justin Wong to call an SSF4 AE match? Why are you going to get your buddy Bob that rapes you with Hakhan for free to call it instead? 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Maurice-Fleshman/100001737340513 Maurice Fleshman

    The main thing I got from this article is….esports people do what they want with fighting games and don’t ask for our input. that’s the key point I’m getting out of this. Why aren’t you going to ask Justin Wong to call an SSF4 AE match? Why are you going to get your buddy Bob that rapes you with Hakhan for free to call it instead? 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Maurice-Fleshman/100001737340513 Maurice Fleshman

    The main thing I got from this article is….esports people do what they want with fighting games and don’t ask for our input. that’s the key point I’m getting out of this. Why aren’t you going to ask Justin Wong to call an SSF4 AE match? Why are you going to get your buddy Bob that rapes you with Hakhan for free to call it instead? 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Maurice-Fleshman/100001737340513 Maurice Fleshman

    The main thing I got from this article is….esports people do what they want with fighting games and don’t ask for our input. that’s the key point I’m getting out of this. Why aren’t you going to ask Justin Wong to call an SSF4 AE match? Why are you going to get your buddy Bob that rapes you with Hakhan for free to call it instead? 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Davi-Tesnovich/100000663183901 Davi Tesnovich

    I don’t really disagree with this article, but I feel like the spirit in which it was written is bad.  This kind of negative dialogue could never possibly be beneficial for either party.  After all, wasn’t it your vocal, negative outlook the thing that started this (author)?

    I don’t think there’s a huge difference between the FGC and eSports.  We’re all self-motivated geeks looking for the essentially the same thing.  We even use largely the same equipment.  I don’t see the benefit in placing a wedge between us in the first place.

    Even if they don’t or can’t aid us directly, we should view them positively.  If we want to be respected by them we should respect them ourselves, and there’s no good reason not to.  Rather than digging up past failures, we should give them props for their accomplishments and learn from the things they do well.  We should assess the situation and let them know the way endeavors could have been successful.  We can’t blame them for not communicating with us more when we’re publicly approaching it with this kind of attitude.

    The FGC’s attitude already has kind of a bad reputation, doesn’t it?  We in-fight, bash and flame each other, and divide our own community all the time.  Now we seek to direct this testosterone-driven, immature attitude at other communities?  This article may be dressed up nicely, but it’s little more than a counter-snipe in a flame war.  Shouldn’t we be approaching this situation with a positive, professional attitude?

    If we want to blow-up, we need to grow-up.  Sure, it doesn’t seem like eSports have been of much (or any) direct help to us yesterday, and it doesn’t seem to be doing much for us today, but we should be intelligent, mature, and responsible enough to keep avenues with other communities open for tomorrow.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Davi-Tesnovich/100000663183901 Davi Tesnovich

      Also, look here:

      ” Do I want to give up the uniqueness of the FGC community to get them? Hell no. I reject the idea(…)”

      ” I’m happy to work with anyone who has a shared respect for these games and the community that supports them, but the “our way or the highway” approach of the traditional eSports league (…)”

      It sounds like you both have exactly the same idea.  How can you bash them so fiercely for the very same thing you’re white knighting?

      Besides that, guys with the same goals exactly as dedicated to their ideals as us?  It sounds like we should be bff’s.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Davi-Tesnovich/100000663183901 Davi Tesnovich

      Also, look here:

      ” Do I want to give up the uniqueness of the FGC community to get them? Hell no. I reject the idea(…)”

      ” I’m happy to work with anyone who has a shared respect for these games and the community that supports them, but the “our way or the highway” approach of the traditional eSports league (…)”

      It sounds like you both have exactly the same idea.  How can you bash them so fiercely for the very same thing you’re white knighting?

      Besides that, guys with the same goals exactly as dedicated to their ideals as us?  It sounds like we should be bff’s.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Davi-Tesnovich/100000663183901 Davi Tesnovich

      Also, look here:

      ” Do I want to give up the uniqueness of the FGC community to get them? Hell no. I reject the idea(…)”

      ” I’m happy to work with anyone who has a shared respect for these games and the community that supports them, but the “our way or the highway” approach of the traditional eSports league (…)”

      It sounds like you both have exactly the same idea.  How can you bash them so fiercely for the very same thing you’re white knighting?

      Besides that, guys with the same goals exactly as dedicated to their ideals as us?  It sounds like we should be bff’s.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Davi-Tesnovich/100000663183901 Davi Tesnovich

      Also, look here:

      ” Do I want to give up the uniqueness of the FGC community to get them? Hell no. I reject the idea(…)”

      ” I’m happy to work with anyone who has a shared respect for these games and the community that supports them, but the “our way or the highway” approach of the traditional eSports league (…)”

      It sounds like you both have exactly the same idea.  How can you bash them so fiercely for the very same thing you’re white knighting?

      Besides that, guys with the same goals exactly as dedicated to their ideals as us?  It sounds like we should be bff’s.

  • Anonymous

    It’s sad to see that Tekken 6 didn’t do too well when it got picked up by WCG. Tekken is a really great fighting game, but it didn’t get a lot of new players during the whole fighting game revival. Its still stupid that WCG had DOA as its fighter of choice though.

  • Anonymous

    It’s sad to see that Tekken 6 didn’t do too well when it got picked up by WCG. Tekken is a really great fighting game, but it didn’t get a lot of new players during the whole fighting game revival. Its still stupid that WCG had DOA as its fighter of choice though.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SKFZHSBVIRFAVBINCAOPGI5QLU RegalX

    This is definitely a “He said/she said” argument.  Not that I disagree
    at all with the editorial, Inkblot is 100% correct.   There’s no doubt
    in my mind that this man loves the FGC and is doing his best to protect
    it.  But I have been in the FGC for many years and shake my head at the
    stubbornness of this scene and specifically it’s game selection.

    It’s not even about the money, the truth is that fighting games is
    considered a joke to pretty much everybody I know outside of the FGC,
    and I’m tired of it. What’s SirScoots is trying to say is that with our
    philosophy we’re not doing much to appeal to players outside the FGC,
    which is where the money is, and he’s right.

    If Capcom didn’t come out with what a lot of people in SRK jokingly call
    “Super Casual Fighter 4″ we’d still be hugely small.  We can only get
    so far on hype alone, the non-fighting game players aren’t just going to
    come to us, we need to go to them too.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SKFZHSBVIRFAVBINCAOPGI5QLU RegalX

    This is definitely a “He said/she said” argument.  Not that I disagree
    at all with the editorial, Inkblot is 100% correct.   There’s no doubt
    in my mind that this man loves the FGC and is doing his best to protect
    it.  But I have been in the FGC for many years and shake my head at the
    stubbornness of this scene and specifically it’s game selection.

    It’s not even about the money, the truth is that fighting games is
    considered a joke to pretty much everybody I know outside of the FGC,
    and I’m tired of it. What’s SirScoots is trying to say is that with our
    philosophy we’re not doing much to appeal to players outside the FGC,
    which is where the money is, and he’s right.

    If Capcom didn’t come out with what a lot of people in SRK jokingly call
    “Super Casual Fighter 4″ we’d still be hugely small.  We can only get
    so far on hype alone, the non-fighting game players aren’t just going to
    come to us, we need to go to them too.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SKFZHSBVIRFAVBINCAOPGI5QLU RegalX

    This is definitely a “He said/she said” argument.  Not that I disagree
    at all with the editorial, Inkblot is 100% correct.   There’s no doubt
    in my mind that this man loves the FGC and is doing his best to protect
    it.  But I have been in the FGC for many years and shake my head at the
    stubbornness of this scene and specifically it’s game selection.

    It’s not even about the money, the truth is that fighting games is
    considered a joke to pretty much everybody I know outside of the FGC,
    and I’m tired of it. What’s SirScoots is trying to say is that with our
    philosophy we’re not doing much to appeal to players outside the FGC,
    which is where the money is, and he’s right.

    If Capcom didn’t come out with what a lot of people in SRK jokingly call
    “Super Casual Fighter 4″ we’d still be hugely small.  We can only get
    so far on hype alone, the non-fighting game players aren’t just going to
    come to us, we need to go to them too.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dustin-Walker/549670371 Dustin Walker

    Random stuff, correct me if I’m wrong.

    B3 (evo) happened in 1996
    MLG was formed in 2002
    WCG started in 2000

    Now quake/doom and all those older fps games had corporate sponsored tournaments around 1996 as far as I can find.

    Starcraft didn’t come out until 1998.

    The fighting game community on the other hand had been running nationwide local tournaments not including majors(I don’t know of many), since 1991 as far as I know.

    All I’m trying to say is, the fighting game community has been around for long enough without sponsors or large sums of money involved to know how and why we want to play our games.

    They need to start working with the community here, since most of what we do has been community driven for 20 years and it is not going to change.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dustin-Walker/549670371 Dustin Walker

    Random stuff, correct me if I’m wrong.

    B3 (evo) happened in 1996
    MLG was formed in 2002
    WCG started in 2000

    Now quake/doom and all those older fps games had corporate sponsored tournaments around 1996 as far as I can find.

    Starcraft didn’t come out until 1998.

    The fighting game community on the other hand had been running nationwide local tournaments not including majors(I don’t know of many), since 1991 as far as I know.

    All I’m trying to say is, the fighting game community has been around for long enough without sponsors or large sums of money involved to know how and why we want to play our games.

    They need to start working with the community here, since most of what we do has been community driven for 20 years and it is not going to change.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dustin-Walker/549670371 Dustin Walker

    Random stuff, correct me if I’m wrong.

    B3 (evo) happened in 1996
    MLG was formed in 2002
    WCG started in 2000

    Now quake/doom and all those older fps games had corporate sponsored tournaments around 1996 as far as I can find.

    Starcraft didn’t come out until 1998.

    The fighting game community on the other hand had been running nationwide local tournaments not including majors(I don’t know of many), since 1991 as far as I know.

    All I’m trying to say is, the fighting game community has been around for long enough without sponsors or large sums of money involved to know how and why we want to play our games.

    They need to start working with the community here, since most of what we do has been community driven for 20 years and it is not going to change.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dustin-Walker/549670371 Dustin Walker

    Random stuff, correct me if I’m wrong.

    B3 (evo) happened in 1996
    MLG was formed in 2002
    WCG started in 2000

    Now quake/doom and all those older fps games had corporate sponsored tournaments around 1996 as far as I can find.

    Starcraft didn’t come out until 1998.

    The fighting game community on the other hand had been running nationwide local tournaments not including majors(I don’t know of many), since 1991 as far as I know.

    All I’m trying to say is, the fighting game community has been around for long enough without sponsors or large sums of money involved to know how and why we want to play our games.

    They need to start working with the community here, since most of what we do has been community driven for 20 years and it is not going to change.

  • Anonymous

    It looks BAD. The sarcastic, dismissive tone of the whole thing is insulting and when you’re a “representative” like SirScoots, you should hold yourself to a higher standard of personal image. What I saw from that small clip was downright embarrassing. I know people aren’t saints and I know people say all kinds of things behind other’s backs, but when you go and put yourself ont he internet, streaming it for everyone to see, you have no excuse to act a fool.

  • Anonymous

    It looks BAD. The sarcastic, dismissive tone of the whole thing is insulting and when you’re a “representative” like SirScoots, you should hold yourself to a higher standard of personal image. What I saw from that small clip was downright embarrassing. I know people aren’t saints and I know people say all kinds of things behind other’s backs, but when you go and put yourself ont he internet, streaming it for everyone to see, you have no excuse to act a fool.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dustin-Walker/549670371 Dustin Walker

      I’d have to agree.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dustin-Walker/549670371 Dustin Walker

      I’d have to agree.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dustin-Walker/549670371 Dustin Walker

      I’d have to agree.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dustin-Walker/549670371 Dustin Walker

      I’d have to agree.

  • Anonymous

    It looks BAD. The sarcastic, dismissive tone of the whole thing is insulting and when you’re a “representative” like SirScoots, you should hold yourself to a higher standard of personal image. What I saw from that small clip was downright embarrassing. I know people aren’t saints and I know people say all kinds of things behind other’s backs, but when you go and put yourself ont he internet, streaming it for everyone to see, you have no excuse to act a fool.

  • Anonymous

    It looks BAD. The sarcastic, dismissive tone of the whole thing is insulting and when you’re a “representative” like SirScoots, you should hold yourself to a higher standard of personal image. What I saw from that small clip was downright embarrassing. I know people aren’t saints and I know people say all kinds of things behind other’s backs, but when you go and put yourself ont he internet, streaming it for everyone to see, you have no excuse to act a fool.

  • http://twitter.com/poke133 poke

    the only thing i despise about “esports” (although i’m a Quake/StarCraft fan) is that they never take fighting games into account or have some recognition towards them

    browse an “esports” website and there’s literally 0 materials related to fighting games.

    also when they have yearly summaries of the state of the “industry” they disregard huge events like Evo like they never happened.. not even a footnote or a worthy mention.

    having this said, i don’t agree with how FGC bashes “esports” collectively for being too “white” or not “hype”
    each game has its own type of “hype” and diversity is always welcome, just like it is within the FGC

    • hyerty

      You say diversity…I say everything that’s not white.

    • hyerty

      You say diversity…I say everything that’s not white.

  • http://twitter.com/poke133 poke

    the only thing i despise about “esports” (although i’m a Quake/StarCraft fan) is that they never take fighting games into account or have some recognition towards them

    browse an “esports” website and there’s literally 0 materials related to fighting games.

    also when they have yearly summaries of the state of the “industry” they disregard huge events like Evo like they never happened.. not even a footnote or a worthy mention.

    having this said, i don’t agree with how FGC bashes “esports” collectively for being too “white” or not “hype”
    each game has its own type of “hype” and diversity is always welcome, just like it is within the FGC

  • http://twitter.com/poke133 poke

    the only thing i despise about “esports” (although i’m a Quake/StarCraft fan) is that they never take fighting games into account or have some recognition towards them

    browse an “esports” website and there’s literally 0 materials related to fighting games.

    also when they have yearly summaries of the state of the “industry” they disregard huge events like Evo like they never happened.. not even a footnote or a worthy mention.

    having this said, i don’t agree with how FGC bashes “esports” collectively for being too “white” or not “hype”
    each game has its own type of “hype” and diversity is always welcome, just like it is within the FGC

  • http://twitter.com/poke133 poke

    the only thing i despise about “esports” (although i’m a Quake/StarCraft fan) is that they never take fighting games into account or have some recognition towards them

    browse an “esports” website and there’s literally 0 materials related to fighting games.

    also when they have yearly summaries of the state of the “industry” they disregard huge events like Evo like they never happened.. not even a footnote or a worthy mention.

    having this said, i don’t agree with how FGC bashes “esports” collectively for being too “white” or not “hype”
    each game has its own type of “hype” and diversity is always welcome, just like it is within the FGC

  • http://twitter.com/poke133 poke

    the only thing i despise about “esports” (although i’m a Quake/StarCraft fan) is that they never take fighting games into account or have some recognition towards them

    browse an “esports” website and there’s literally 0 materials related to fighting games.

    also when they have yearly summaries of the state of the “industry” they disregard huge events like Evo like they never happened.. not even a footnote or a worthy mention.

    having this said, i don’t agree with how FGC bashes “esports” collectively for being too “white” or not “hype”
    each game has its own type of “hype” and diversity is always welcome, just like it is within the FGC

  • Anonymous

    Great article. I wholeheartedly agree with it.

  • Anonymous

    Great article. I wholeheartedly agree with it.

  • Anonymous

    Great article. I wholeheartedly agree with it.

  • Anonymous

    SirScoots has long standing beef with certain people in the FGC.  He and the L03 team put on one of the first high production value fighting game tournament streams (Devastation) and they got hated on and nitpicked for it.  Ever since since there has be sniping back and forth in the form of blogs like these and stuff he says in the podcast.

    The truth is there’s no reason fighting games and the esports machine can’t thrive together.  The problem is the widespread pettiness among leaders and communities in general that gets in the way of people working together and trying things.  

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WV4VCJ2UTS43PU4IZO4GQZEV7M wuy

    How could anyone who listened to the SirScoots rant support the FCG joining the MLG? At 1:53:40 he was going on about how shitty it is that the FCG is still growing. He must be freaking annoyed that he’s missing out on a growing cash cow to milk upon.

    • Anonymous

      I honestly felt the same thing.  Seriously.  Same vibe from the other one, djWHEAT.  The FGC isn’t just a community those fools can milk for money, it’s turned into a living, breathing force as well. 

      We just need to have a good front man that’s tied close to the community to talk the big talk for us to the game companies (the only thing I agree with SirScoots).

    • Anonymous

      I hate to sound like I’m taking sides but they were saying Justin could be making so much more, not them personally.  With regard to the whole milking the cash cow comment, the irony is that there were a number of fighting game players who were excited at the prospect of making money not directly resulting from their own play, like ‘sweet this game is hot, how we start making money off it?’

      Overall I really do think Scoots and djwheat’s hearts are in the right place, but the paths to success they know and understand are different from what the FGC have in mind.  And as I mentioned up above there are some ridiculous obstacles to overcome.

  • Anonymous

    Agreed totally while i would like to see our community continue to grow in all ways or “blow up”,  I also see the necessity to choose the correct partners. Good job on the article.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hans-Maulwurf/100001472683941 Hans Maulwurf

    It´s all about Hype. Fuck e sports and theire dork discussions.

  • http://twitter.com/DrunkenIronMan Iron Man

    I would love for our community to get huge and play at Madison Square Garden or the Staples Center, but I don’t want to lose the true community feel that’s been a part of it since its inception. 

  • Bavo Bruylandt

    Everytime I read an article from a SRK staff member saying something about eSports I can’t help but feel utter bitterness. As if SRK actually did not want to grow, it just happened to them and they have to deal with it, but they just want to go back to the private boys club they one where. 

    You claim to grow the community, but as far as I see it you only like to see yourself growing things, and tend to shoot down others doing the same, and better. I just read a quote from a sowttare development company that sais ‘be the change you seek’
    If you find that there is a misunderstanding between FGC and major eSports, then communicate better. But dont be bitter. It just isolates, and one day you’ll get really lonely.

  • Bavo Bruylandt

    Everytime I read an article from a SRK staff member saying something about eSports I can’t help but feel utter bitterness. As if SRK actually did not want to grow, it just happened to them and they have to deal with it, but they just want to go back to the private boys club they one where. 

    You claim to grow the community, but as far as I see it you only like to see yourself growing things, and tend to shoot down others doing the same, and better. I just read a quote from a sowttare development company that sais ‘be the change you seek’
    If you find that there is a misunderstanding between FGC and major eSports, then communicate better. But dont be bitter. It just isolates, and one day you’ll get really lonely.

  • Bavo Bruylandt

    Everytime I read an article from a SRK staff member saying something about eSports I can’t help but feel utter bitterness. As if SRK actually did not want to grow, it just happened to them and they have to deal with it, but they just want to go back to the private boys club they one where. 

    You claim to grow the community, but as far as I see it you only like to see yourself growing things, and tend to shoot down others doing the same, and better. I just read a quote from a sowttare development company that sais ‘be the change you seek’
    If you find that there is a misunderstanding between FGC and major eSports, then communicate better. But dont be bitter. It just isolates, and one day you’ll get really lonely.

    • hyerty

      Isolate what? FGC is growing bigger and bigger each year. Funny how people like SirScoots only appear in the midst of growing success. 

      • Bavo Bruylandt

        In fighting games this trend appears to be cyclic. Meaning it will go down at some point. SF4 accelerated growth, but it’s effect will wear off and you will get a larger base as a result, but not the exponential grown number that we have now

        • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

          Cyclic? As if the recent success of MLG has been longer lasting than the recent success of the FGC. Players dont just vanish in huge numbers like corporate sponsors do when markets arent as profitable.

          I find it hard to care about eSports proponents considering the only boons they talk about are “Your top players will get paid more!” which is nice, but it makes it sound like they feel that competitive gaming communities exist to give top players money and little else.

        • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

          Cyclic? As if the recent success of MLG has been longer lasting than the recent success of the FGC. Players dont just vanish in huge numbers like corporate sponsors do when markets arent as profitable.

          I find it hard to care about eSports proponents considering the only boons they talk about are “Your top players will get paid more!” which is nice, but it makes it sound like they feel that competitive gaming communities exist to give top players money and little else.

        • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

          Cyclic? As if the recent success of MLG has been longer lasting than the recent success of the FGC. Players dont just vanish in huge numbers like corporate sponsors do when markets arent as profitable.

          I find it hard to care about eSports proponents considering the only boons they talk about are “Your top players will get paid more!” which is nice, but it makes it sound like they feel that competitive gaming communities exist to give top players money and little else.

        • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

          Cyclic? As if the recent success of MLG has been longer lasting than the recent success of the FGC. Players dont just vanish in huge numbers like corporate sponsors do when markets arent as profitable.

          I find it hard to care about eSports proponents considering the only boons they talk about are “Your top players will get paid more!” which is nice, but it makes it sound like they feel that competitive gaming communities exist to give top players money and little else.

        • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

          Cyclic? As if the recent success of MLG has been longer lasting than the recent success of the FGC. Players dont just vanish in huge numbers like corporate sponsors do when markets arent as profitable.

          I find it hard to care about eSports proponents considering the only boons they talk about are “Your top players will get paid more!” which is nice, but it makes it sound like they feel that competitive gaming communities exist to give top players money and little else.

        • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

          Cyclic? As if the recent success of MLG has been longer lasting than the recent success of the FGC. Players dont just vanish in huge numbers like corporate sponsors do when markets arent as profitable.

          I find it hard to care about eSports proponents considering the only boons they talk about are “Your top players will get paid more!” which is nice, but it makes it sound like they feel that competitive gaming communities exist to give top players money and little else.

        • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

          Cyclic? As if the recent success of MLG has been longer lasting than the recent success of the FGC. Players dont just vanish in huge numbers like corporate sponsors do when markets arent as profitable.

          I find it hard to care about eSports proponents considering the only boons they talk about are “Your top players will get paid more!” which is nice, but it makes it sound like they feel that competitive gaming communities exist to give top players money and little else.

        • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

          When this bubble pops for competitive gaming (AKA eSports), FGC won’t have a bunch of Masters when the money stops coming in. With or without the money, we can still run our own events like before this bow up.

          • http://twitter.com/bchan009 bCHAN

            That’s true.  But I don’t see why we can’t take the money while it’s still there.  What you say is true – the community has been around before this and will be around after this.  So why not try something new?  You yourself said we’re not going to disappear anyway.

          • http://twitter.com/bchan009 bCHAN

            That’s true.  But I don’t see why we can’t take the money while it’s still there.  What you say is true – the community has been around before this and will be around after this.  So why not try something new?  You yourself said we’re not going to disappear anyway.

          • http://twitter.com/bchan009 bCHAN

            That’s true.  But I don’t see why we can’t take the money while it’s still there.  What you say is true – the community has been around before this and will be around after this.  So why not try something new?  You yourself said we’re not going to disappear anyway.

        • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

          When this bubble pops for competitive gaming (AKA eSports), FGC won’t have a bunch of Masters when the money stops coming in. With or without the money, we can still run our own events like before this bow up.

    • hyerty

      Isolate what? FGC is growing bigger and bigger each year. Funny how people like SirScoots only appear in the midst of growing success. 

    • hyerty

      Isolate what? FGC is growing bigger and bigger each year. Funny how people like SirScoots only appear in the midst of growing success. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jon-Slayton/563921933 Jon Slayton

    Sounds like a new league needs to step up. If fighting games had their own league, wouldn’t it draw in more players? Half the hype of starcraft and FPS are all the big production leagues behind them. I feel like we’re well over due for the same respect.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jon-Slayton/563921933 Jon Slayton

    Sounds like a new league needs to step up. If fighting games had their own league, wouldn’t it draw in more players? Half the hype of starcraft and FPS are all the big production leagues behind them. I feel like we’re well over due for the same respect.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jon-Slayton/563921933 Jon Slayton

    Sounds like a new league needs to step up. If fighting games had their own league, wouldn’t it draw in more players? Half the hype of starcraft and FPS are all the big production leagues behind them. I feel like we’re well over due for the same respect.

  • http://www.facebook.com/striderxplosive Sepulveda Jose

    fuck the big leagues and “limelight” BS. Let the community keep running it. This is what makes our scene special!

  • http://www.facebook.com/striderxplosive Sepulveda Jose

    fuck the big leagues and “limelight” BS. Let the community keep running it. This is what makes our scene special!

  • http://twitter.com/iAngelos Tim Brown

    I joined the FGC in early 2001 in a tiny little Arcade in Silver Spring, MD. This was the first time i was introduced to members of 3-0 Done and the Tekken Community. In the last couple of years i went to work with a couple online tourament sites in the FPS/MLG Community. These worlds are simply too different. The one thing i have always admired about the FGC Community was the fatc that you guys take care of your own. SirScoots rant is really about the fact that he sees money for himself and Eg in the FGC but he can’t get to it all. But to honest the FGC has grown by itself and with support from sponsors(Mad Catz, etc) that are already apart of the community. You have inventors like Hit Box that are able to go out to events and show off new products with ease. eSport events and MLG Events are much more commercial and they dont offfer anywhere near the amount of support FGC Tournament Organizers do.

    I would love to see the FGC Grow as much as SC2/Halo and other eSports have but not if it means sacrificing what makes the FGC Special and becoming like other games. Sir Scoots can rant about the FGC but some of the contractual backstabbing that happens in other games is down right insane. Just ask him about how he lost Pro Team Instinct to another organization Eon.  The FGC is on its way to its own stardom and we didnt have to achieve it by sellling out or destroying locals. For over years the FGC thrived from player connections in arcades and local events around the country and world. If the FGC wasnt going to become huge Sir Scoots would not be so upset about his lake of control over it. FGC=Fighting Game Community. No other gaming leagues/organizations/genre can save they have the same kind of relationship with all aspects of their community.

  • http://twitter.com/iAngelos Tim Brown

    I joined the FGC in early 2001 in a tiny little Arcade in Silver Spring, MD. This was the first time i was introduced to members of 3-0 Done and the Tekken Community. In the last couple of years i went to work with a couple online tourament sites in the FPS/MLG Community. These worlds are simply too different. The one thing i have always admired about the FGC Community was the fatc that you guys take care of your own. SirScoots rant is really about the fact that he sees money for himself and Eg in the FGC but he can’t get to it all. But to honest the FGC has grown by itself and with support from sponsors(Mad Catz, etc) that are already apart of the community. You have inventors like Hit Box that are able to go out to events and show off new products with ease. eSport events and MLG Events are much more commercial and they dont offfer anywhere near the amount of support FGC Tournament Organizers do.

    I would love to see the FGC Grow as much as SC2/Halo and other eSports have but not if it means sacrificing what makes the FGC Special and becoming like other games. Sir Scoots can rant about the FGC but some of the contractual backstabbing that happens in other games is down right insane. Just ask him about how he lost Pro Team Instinct to another organization Eon.  The FGC is on its way to its own stardom and we didnt have to achieve it by sellling out or destroying locals. For over years the FGC thrived from player connections in arcades and local events around the country and world. If the FGC wasnt going to become huge Sir Scoots would not be so upset about his lake of control over it. FGC=Fighting Game Community. No other gaming leagues/organizations/genre can save they have the same kind of relationship with all aspects of their community.

  • http://twitter.com/spankminister spankminister

    Thanks for posting this.  I doubt Sirscoots will have a response, but I’d love to hear it.

    The part of this story I have firsthand knowledge of was the WCG National finals for VF5.  Now, the choice of VF5 itself, while it made me happy since I’m one of the few people that play it, was utter nonsense if you want to build interest and hype and get eyes to your sponsors.  I was impressed at the level of sponsorship of the CS teams, but also the way that the CounterStrike commentary, like StarCraft commentary today, made it easy to understand for someone like me, who hadn’t played 1.6 since before Source came out.

    On the VF5 side, no serious attempts were made to engage with the community, and most depressing of all, the finals were commentated by their general host guy, who was nice and photogenic and articulate… but had never played Virtua Fighter.  One of the sickest high level throw mindgames I’ve seen was punctuated by comments like, “Wow, that seems like it did a lot of damage.”  Think for a moment, SirScoots, at what the SC community would say if a SC commentator for a finals had never played StarCraft, and upon witnessing a match-clinching early rush said, “My goodness, are all of those zerglings?”

    My question to SirScoots is this: given a competitive community like the one you have, if historically, moneyed events had chosen relative unknowns from your genre, and repeatedly mishandled those at a basic level, would you have waited around for those sponsors to get their shit together before nationals/majors even happened, or would you have taken matters into your own hands, like the FGC did?

    I mean, let’s be serious here, regardless of what bad blood there has been historically, if a sponsor chose a reasonable venue, got established streaming from within the community, and sweetened the pot with a couple grand (which in big sponsor terms is absolutely nothing) of course people would show up.

  • http://twitter.com/spankminister spankminister

    Thanks for posting this.  I doubt Sirscoots will have a response, but I’d love to hear it.

    The part of this story I have firsthand knowledge of was the WCG National finals for VF5.  Now, the choice of VF5 itself, while it made me happy since I’m one of the few people that play it, was utter nonsense if you want to build interest and hype and get eyes to your sponsors.  I was impressed at the level of sponsorship of the CS teams, but also the way that the CounterStrike commentary, like StarCraft commentary today, made it easy to understand for someone like me, who hadn’t played 1.6 since before Source came out.

    On the VF5 side, no serious attempts were made to engage with the community, and most depressing of all, the finals were commentated by their general host guy, who was nice and photogenic and articulate… but had never played Virtua Fighter.  One of the sickest high level throw mindgames I’ve seen was punctuated by comments like, “Wow, that seems like it did a lot of damage.”  Think for a moment, SirScoots, at what the SC community would say if a SC commentator for a finals had never played StarCraft, and upon witnessing a match-clinching early rush said, “My goodness, are all of those zerglings?”

    My question to SirScoots is this: given a competitive community like the one you have, if historically, moneyed events had chosen relative unknowns from your genre, and repeatedly mishandled those at a basic level, would you have waited around for those sponsors to get their shit together before nationals/majors even happened, or would you have taken matters into your own hands, like the FGC did?

    I mean, let’s be serious here, regardless of what bad blood there has been historically, if a sponsor chose a reasonable venue, got established streaming from within the community, and sweetened the pot with a couple grand (which in big sponsor terms is absolutely nothing) of course people would show up.

  • http://twitter.com/spankminister spankminister

    Thanks for posting this.  I doubt Sirscoots will have a response, but I’d love to hear it.

    The part of this story I have firsthand knowledge of was the WCG National finals for VF5.  Now, the choice of VF5 itself, while it made me happy since I’m one of the few people that play it, was utter nonsense if you want to build interest and hype and get eyes to your sponsors.  I was impressed at the level of sponsorship of the CS teams, but also the way that the CounterStrike commentary, like StarCraft commentary today, made it easy to understand for someone like me, who hadn’t played 1.6 since before Source came out.

    On the VF5 side, no serious attempts were made to engage with the community, and most depressing of all, the finals were commentated by their general host guy, who was nice and photogenic and articulate… but had never played Virtua Fighter.  One of the sickest high level throw mindgames I’ve seen was punctuated by comments like, “Wow, that seems like it did a lot of damage.”  Think for a moment, SirScoots, at what the SC community would say if a SC commentator for a finals had never played StarCraft, and upon witnessing a match-clinching early rush said, “My goodness, are all of those zerglings?”

    My question to SirScoots is this: given a competitive community like the one you have, if historically, moneyed events had chosen relative unknowns from your genre, and repeatedly mishandled those at a basic level, would you have waited around for those sponsors to get their shit together before nationals/majors even happened, or would you have taken matters into your own hands, like the FGC did?

    I mean, let’s be serious here, regardless of what bad blood there has been historically, if a sponsor chose a reasonable venue, got established streaming from within the community, and sweetened the pot with a couple grand (which in big sponsor terms is absolutely nothing) of course people would show up.

  • http://twitter.com/spankminister spankminister

    Thanks for posting this.  I doubt Sirscoots will have a response, but I’d love to hear it.

    The part of this story I have firsthand knowledge of was the WCG National finals for VF5.  Now, the choice of VF5 itself, while it made me happy since I’m one of the few people that play it, was utter nonsense if you want to build interest and hype and get eyes to your sponsors.  I was impressed at the level of sponsorship of the CS teams, but also the way that the CounterStrike commentary, like StarCraft commentary today, made it easy to understand for someone like me, who hadn’t played 1.6 since before Source came out.

    On the VF5 side, no serious attempts were made to engage with the community, and most depressing of all, the finals were commentated by their general host guy, who was nice and photogenic and articulate… but had never played Virtua Fighter.  One of the sickest high level throw mindgames I’ve seen was punctuated by comments like, “Wow, that seems like it did a lot of damage.”  Think for a moment, SirScoots, at what the SC community would say if a SC commentator for a finals had never played StarCraft, and upon witnessing a match-clinching early rush said, “My goodness, are all of those zerglings?”

    My question to SirScoots is this: given a competitive community like the one you have, if historically, moneyed events had chosen relative unknowns from your genre, and repeatedly mishandled those at a basic level, would you have waited around for those sponsors to get their shit together before nationals/majors even happened, or would you have taken matters into your own hands, like the FGC did?

    I mean, let’s be serious here, regardless of what bad blood there has been historically, if a sponsor chose a reasonable venue, got established streaming from within the community, and sweetened the pot with a couple grand (which in big sponsor terms is absolutely nothing) of course people would show up.

  • http://twitter.com/spankminister spankminister

    Thanks for posting this.  I doubt Sirscoots will have a response, but I’d love to hear it.

    The part of this story I have firsthand knowledge of was the WCG National finals for VF5.  Now, the choice of VF5 itself, while it made me happy since I’m one of the few people that play it, was utter nonsense if you want to build interest and hype and get eyes to your sponsors.  I was impressed at the level of sponsorship of the CS teams, but also the way that the CounterStrike commentary, like StarCraft commentary today, made it easy to understand for someone like me, who hadn’t played 1.6 since before Source came out.

    On the VF5 side, no serious attempts were made to engage with the community, and most depressing of all, the finals were commentated by their general host guy, who was nice and photogenic and articulate… but had never played Virtua Fighter.  One of the sickest high level throw mindgames I’ve seen was punctuated by comments like, “Wow, that seems like it did a lot of damage.”  Think for a moment, SirScoots, at what the SC community would say if a SC commentator for a finals had never played StarCraft, and upon witnessing a match-clinching early rush said, “My goodness, are all of those zerglings?”

    My question to SirScoots is this: given a competitive community like the one you have, if historically, moneyed events had chosen relative unknowns from your genre, and repeatedly mishandled those at a basic level, would you have waited around for those sponsors to get their shit together before nationals/majors even happened, or would you have taken matters into your own hands, like the FGC did?

    I mean, let’s be serious here, regardless of what bad blood there has been historically, if a sponsor chose a reasonable venue, got established streaming from within the community, and sweetened the pot with a couple grand (which in big sponsor terms is absolutely nothing) of course people would show up.

  • http://twitter.com/spankminister spankminister

    Thanks for posting this.  I doubt Sirscoots will have a response, but I’d love to hear it.

    The part of this story I have firsthand knowledge of was the WCG National finals for VF5.  Now, the choice of VF5 itself, while it made me happy since I’m one of the few people that play it, was utter nonsense if you want to build interest and hype and get eyes to your sponsors.  I was impressed at the level of sponsorship of the CS teams, but also the way that the CounterStrike commentary, like StarCraft commentary today, made it easy to understand for someone like me, who hadn’t played 1.6 since before Source came out.

    On the VF5 side, no serious attempts were made to engage with the community, and most depressing of all, the finals were commentated by their general host guy, who was nice and photogenic and articulate… but had never played Virtua Fighter.  One of the sickest high level throw mindgames I’ve seen was punctuated by comments like, “Wow, that seems like it did a lot of damage.”  Think for a moment, SirScoots, at what the SC community would say if a SC commentator for a finals had never played StarCraft, and upon witnessing a match-clinching early rush said, “My goodness, are all of those zerglings?”

    My question to SirScoots is this: given a competitive community like the one you have, if historically, moneyed events had chosen relative unknowns from your genre, and repeatedly mishandled those at a basic level, would you have waited around for those sponsors to get their shit together before nationals/majors even happened, or would you have taken matters into your own hands, like the FGC did?

    I mean, let’s be serious here, regardless of what bad blood there has been historically, if a sponsor chose a reasonable venue, got established streaming from within the community, and sweetened the pot with a couple grand (which in big sponsor terms is absolutely nothing) of course people would show up.

  • Anonymous

    eSports is all about money despite any success or failures it may or may not have had. Although many fighting events have bigger prize pools these days, the final pots are generally not mentioned and the money is really more of a secondary advertisement for the event. Many people just attend for the love of competition and to spend time amongst the community.

  • Anonymous

    eSports is all about money despite any success or failures it may or may not have had. Although many fighting events have bigger prize pools these days, the final pots are generally not mentioned and the money is really more of a secondary advertisement for the event. Many people just attend for the love of competition and to spend time amongst the community.

  • Anonymous

    eSports is all about money despite any success or failures it may or may not have had. Although many fighting events have bigger prize pools these days, the final pots are generally not mentioned and the money is really more of a secondary advertisement for the event. Many people just attend for the love of competition and to spend time amongst the community.

  • Anonymous

    very nice read

  • Anonymous

    very nice read

  • Anonymous

    very nice read

  • Anonymous

    very nice read

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

    LOL at the losers crying

    ever notice starcraft and FPS players tend to actually be attractive and have good hygene, while fighting game players tend to be ugly as shit with awful hygene?  Yall got stuck at the corner at MLG because they didn’t want your ugly asses on the camera scaring viewers lmfao

    Brush your teeth, comb your hair, BATHE, use DEODERANT, then maybe yall can stomp wit the big dogs

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

    LOL at the losers crying

    ever notice starcraft and FPS players tend to actually be attractive and have good hygene, while fighting game players tend to be ugly as shit with awful hygene?  Yall got stuck at the corner at MLG because they didn’t want your ugly asses on the camera scaring viewers lmfao

    Brush your teeth, comb your hair, BATHE, use DEODERANT, then maybe yall can stomp wit the big dogs

    • http://www.facebook.com/heyitscarlos Carlos Rodriguez

      No, I don’t notice these things.  I don’t watch competitions for the “attractive” players.  Your arguments are a bit suspect, homie. Deodorant* by the way.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

    LOL at the losers crying

    ever notice starcraft and FPS players tend to actually be attractive and have good hygene, while fighting game players tend to be ugly as shit with awful hygene?  Yall got stuck at the corner at MLG because they didn’t want your ugly asses on the camera scaring viewers lmfao

    Brush your teeth, comb your hair, BATHE, use DEODERANT, then maybe yall can stomp wit the big dogs

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

    ps yall just jealous because games like Halo(which yall claim takes no skill compared to GG/VF or some other overrated shit) get worldwide notoreity and the dudes playing them can get hot ass model gfs, while yall are stuck salivating over kaypolice, a mafuccin TRANNY

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

    ps yall just jealous because games like Halo(which yall claim takes no skill compared to GG/VF or some other overrated shit) get worldwide notoreity and the dudes playing them can get hot ass model gfs, while yall are stuck salivating over kaypolice, a mafuccin TRANNY

    • hyerty

      So you are a racist, sexist, shallow, dubstepping loving white guy I’m guessing. Sounds about right.

    • hyerty

      So you are a racist, sexist, shallow, dubstepping loving white guy I’m guessing. Sounds about right.

    • http://www.facebook.com/heyitscarlos Carlos Rodriguez

      I’m really eager to see these Halo players whose gaming skills get them “hot ass model gfs.”

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

        Dude watch fucking MLG videos, the players are way better looking and have actual good hygene, unlike the FGC which is full of fat people, scrawny kids, and guys with bad hair and bad hygene.  When Ronin Chaos has to tell people to bring deoderant and use it, that’s very very telling, why does a damn MODERATOR have to tell grown ass men to wash their ass?

        • http://www.facebook.com/heyitscarlos Carlos Rodriguez

          Again, let’s see these “hot ass model gfs.”  I’m starting to think you have a little crush on these “dreamy” MLG competitors.  Maybe you should start a fan club.

        • http://www.facebook.com/heyitscarlos Carlos Rodriguez

          I took your advice and looked up some MLG videos on youtube… you should raise your standards a bit, homie.  As Drake put it: “I’m just sayin’… you could do better.”

          • Anonymous

            kayo police

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

        Dude watch fucking MLG videos, the players are way better looking and have actual good hygene, unlike the FGC which is full of fat people, scrawny kids, and guys with bad hair and bad hygene.  When Ronin Chaos has to tell people to bring deoderant and use it, that’s very very telling, why does a damn MODERATOR have to tell grown ass men to wash their ass?

    • http://www.facebook.com/heyitscarlos Carlos Rodriguez

      I’m really eager to see these Halo players whose gaming skills get them “hot ass model gfs.”

    • http://www.facebook.com/heyitscarlos Carlos Rodriguez

      I’m really eager to see these Halo players whose gaming skills get them “hot ass model gfs.”

    • http://www.facebook.com/heyitscarlos Carlos Rodriguez

      I’m really eager to see these Halo players whose gaming skills get them “hot ass model gfs.”

    • http://www.facebook.com/heyitscarlos Carlos Rodriguez

      I’m really eager to see these Halo players whose gaming skills get them “hot ass model gfs.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

    ps yall just jealous because games like Halo(which yall claim takes no skill compared to GG/VF or some other overrated shit) get worldwide notoreity and the dudes playing them can get hot ass model gfs, while yall are stuck salivating over kaypolice, a mafuccin TRANNY

  • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

    “SF4 didn’t magically blow up overnight.  We built it, and we’re going to keep building it.”

    You’re full of it, Cannon.

    SF4 practically did “blow up overnight” when players in the U.S. heard of it; players lined up to jump on that shit. But before that, the game was already headed arcades across the ocean. SF4 needed practically zero maintenance (read: hype) to get players on board. Have the more labor-intensive games in terms of hype (TvC, Melty Blood, Arcana Heart, BlazBlue, Mortal Kombat, etc.)  blown-up yet? Why not?

    In summary: Don’t take credit for the sun rising. Don’t overestimate the effects generated by “hype”. SF4 required almost zero effort on the part of tournament organizers to get people to play it.

    • Anonymous

      Exactly. Chances are, if you found out about the scene, you were already playing anyway.

    • Anonymous

      Exactly. Chances are, if you found out about the scene, you were already playing anyway.

    • Anonymous

      U apprently have no history of the FGC to make a comment like that. 

      The game “SF4″ wouldnt have existed had it not been for tournament organizers like the Canon’s who year after year find ways to host national/international events like EVO.

      Even when it seemed like the fighting game genre was gonna die they continue to find ways to have the event grow.

      Capcom finally saw the potential of the FGC and decided to make SF4.

      So yea the “We built it” is a we the “FGC” that built the hype and success of Street Fighter.

      • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

        [The game "SF4" wouldnt have existed had it not been for tournament
        organizers like the Canon's who year after year find ways to host
        national/international events like EVO.]

        Street Fighter 4 didn’t come into existence because EVO was there. Yoshinori Ono pitched the game to Capcom, and Capcom made a great game. The fighting game community adopted the game quickly because it was a great game. Saying that the hype is what made Street Fighter 4 popular is like saying commercials are what make sugar-coated breakfast cereals delicious.
        Spoiler alert: it’s the sugar, not the mascots, that make things sweet.

        [Capcom finally saw the potential of the FGC and decided to make SF4.]

        Street Fighter 4 development was green-lighted, if I remember correctly, in part because Hyper Fighting on XBox Live generated enough sales and consumer interest to consider a new iteration of the Street Fighter series. Capcom was initially hesitant to develop a new Street Fighter game because it hadn’t done so in almost a decade. The Hyper Fighting re-release showed that a large market of fighting game fans was waiting to be tapped with a new game.
        So every time you remember the hype of Street Fighter 4, remember Hyper Fighting, and arcades. Never forget where these games came from: marketing experimentation and crazy people with Blanka figurines. Risks.

        [So yea the "We built it" is a we the "FGC" that built the hype and success of Street Fighter.]

        Street Fighter 4 required no outside promotion (the marketing term people call “hype”) from tournament organizers to draw attention to the game. The game drew the attention of players by itself. Unpopular games require more hype to get people to play them (BlazBlue, Mortal Kombat, etc.), but where’s the hype for those games? Hype can potentially make a previously unheard of or unpopular game spread across countries and encourage new players to adopt those games. Where’s the hype for those games sitting on the B-Tier? Scheduled in the early morning at the Evolution Finals for an audience of a little more than a handful. Hype for Street Fighter 4 was easy. Hype for other, less popular games is hard. Tournament promoters shouldn’t pat themselves on the back for generating “hype” for a game that had generated it on it’s own.

        The only people who should take credit for the success of Street Fighter 4 are the development staff who produced the game, marketed the game, and continue to support the game years after initial release (balance patches, that kind of stuff). Want to take credit for hype? Take credit for introducing new games to new audiences. Try it with Skullgirls. In the end, the game is what makes or breaks things, not the hype.

        [U apprently have no history of the FGC to make a comment like that.]

        … Consider this SF4 History 1000. And it’s free…

      • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

        [The game "SF4" wouldnt have existed had it not been for tournament
        organizers like the Canon's who year after year find ways to host
        national/international events like EVO.]

        Street Fighter 4 didn’t come into existence because EVO was there. Yoshinori Ono pitched the game to Capcom, and Capcom made a great game. The fighting game community adopted the game quickly because it was a great game. Saying that the hype is what made Street Fighter 4 popular is like saying commercials are what make sugar-coated breakfast cereals delicious.
        Spoiler alert: it’s the sugar, not the mascots, that make things sweet.

        [Capcom finally saw the potential of the FGC and decided to make SF4.]

        Street Fighter 4 development was green-lighted, if I remember correctly, in part because Hyper Fighting on XBox Live generated enough sales and consumer interest to consider a new iteration of the Street Fighter series. Capcom was initially hesitant to develop a new Street Fighter game because it hadn’t done so in almost a decade. The Hyper Fighting re-release showed that a large market of fighting game fans was waiting to be tapped with a new game.
        So every time you remember the hype of Street Fighter 4, remember Hyper Fighting, and arcades. Never forget where these games came from: marketing experimentation and crazy people with Blanka figurines. Risks.

        [So yea the "We built it" is a we the "FGC" that built the hype and success of Street Fighter.]

        Street Fighter 4 required no outside promotion (the marketing term people call “hype”) from tournament organizers to draw attention to the game. The game drew the attention of players by itself. Unpopular games require more hype to get people to play them (BlazBlue, Mortal Kombat, etc.), but where’s the hype for those games? Hype can potentially make a previously unheard of or unpopular game spread across countries and encourage new players to adopt those games. Where’s the hype for those games sitting on the B-Tier? Scheduled in the early morning at the Evolution Finals for an audience of a little more than a handful. Hype for Street Fighter 4 was easy. Hype for other, less popular games is hard. Tournament promoters shouldn’t pat themselves on the back for generating “hype” for a game that had generated it on it’s own.

        The only people who should take credit for the success of Street Fighter 4 are the development staff who produced the game, marketed the game, and continue to support the game years after initial release (balance patches, that kind of stuff). Want to take credit for hype? Take credit for introducing new games to new audiences. Try it with Skullgirls. In the end, the game is what makes or breaks things, not the hype.

        [U apprently have no history of the FGC to make a comment like that.]

        … Consider this SF4 History 1000. And it’s free…

        • Anonymous

          R u blind or r u just trying to be argumentative for argumentative sake?

          Ure first two paragraph contradicts itself.  First u say SF4 didnt come to existance because of EVO (I figure u mean the FGC but thats ok…) then u said Capcom gave the green light to SF4 because of online interest in Hyper Fighting (to which this site, ran by the people who organizes EVO, promoted heavily)

          Do you really think that Ono would have a shot in convincing Capcom to produce SF4 had it not been for the loyalty of the FGC?  Do you really believe that srk.com had no influence in drawing up the online download of HF?  Do u think Ono would have even considered SF4 if there was no FGC?

          SF4 didnt magically appear into the arcade, months of beta’s in the US and JPN and feedback from the FGC (specifically srk.com and its members) which led to the great game we all play today.  To say that it was all Capcom and the FGC had no influence in producing a great game is a lie to yourself.

          My SF4 History Class was a joke…

          Try taking FGC History 101

        • Anonymous

          R u blind or r u just trying to be argumentative for argumentative sake?

          Ure first two paragraph contradicts itself.  First u say SF4 didnt come to existance because of EVO (I figure u mean the FGC but thats ok…) then u said Capcom gave the green light to SF4 because of online interest in Hyper Fighting (to which this site, ran by the people who organizes EVO, promoted heavily)

          Do you really think that Ono would have a shot in convincing Capcom to produce SF4 had it not been for the loyalty of the FGC?  Do you really believe that srk.com had no influence in drawing up the online download of HF?  Do u think Ono would have even considered SF4 if there was no FGC?

          SF4 didnt magically appear into the arcade, months of beta’s in the US and JPN and feedback from the FGC (specifically srk.com and its members) which led to the great game we all play today.  To say that it was all Capcom and the FGC had no influence in producing a great game is a lie to yourself.

          My SF4 History Class was a joke…

          Try taking FGC History 101

        • Anonymous

          R u blind or r u just trying to be argumentative for argumentative sake?

          Ure first two paragraph contradicts itself.  First u say SF4 didnt come to existance because of EVO (I figure u mean the FGC but thats ok…) then u said Capcom gave the green light to SF4 because of online interest in Hyper Fighting (to which this site, ran by the people who organizes EVO, promoted heavily)

          Do you really think that Ono would have a shot in convincing Capcom to produce SF4 had it not been for the loyalty of the FGC?  Do you really believe that srk.com had no influence in drawing up the online download of HF?  Do u think Ono would have even considered SF4 if there was no FGC?

          SF4 didnt magically appear into the arcade, months of beta’s in the US and JPN and feedback from the FGC (specifically srk.com and its members) which led to the great game we all play today.  To say that it was all Capcom and the FGC had no influence in producing a great game is a lie to yourself.

          My SF4 History Class was a joke…

          Try taking FGC History 101

        • Anonymous

          R u blind or r u just trying to be argumentative for argumentative sake?

          Ure first two paragraph contradicts itself.  First u say SF4 didnt come to existance because of EVO (I figure u mean the FGC but thats ok…) then u said Capcom gave the green light to SF4 because of online interest in Hyper Fighting (to which this site, ran by the people who organizes EVO, promoted heavily)

          Do you really think that Ono would have a shot in convincing Capcom to produce SF4 had it not been for the loyalty of the FGC?  Do you really believe that srk.com had no influence in drawing up the online download of HF?  Do u think Ono would have even considered SF4 if there was no FGC?

          SF4 didnt magically appear into the arcade, months of beta’s in the US and JPN and feedback from the FGC (specifically srk.com and its members) which led to the great game we all play today.  To say that it was all Capcom and the FGC had no influence in producing a great game is a lie to yourself.

          My SF4 History Class was a joke…

          Try taking FGC History 101

        • Anonymous

          R u blind or r u just trying to be argumentative for argumentative sake?

          Ure first two paragraph contradicts itself.  First u say SF4 didnt come to existance because of EVO (I figure u mean the FGC but thats ok…) then u said Capcom gave the green light to SF4 because of online interest in Hyper Fighting (to which this site, ran by the people who organizes EVO, promoted heavily)

          Do you really think that Ono would have a shot in convincing Capcom to produce SF4 had it not been for the loyalty of the FGC?  Do you really believe that srk.com had no influence in drawing up the online download of HF?  Do u think Ono would have even considered SF4 if there was no FGC?

          SF4 didnt magically appear into the arcade, months of beta’s in the US and JPN and feedback from the FGC (specifically srk.com and its members) which led to the great game we all play today.  To say that it was all Capcom and the FGC had no influence in producing a great game is a lie to yourself.

          My SF4 History Class was a joke…

          Try taking FGC History 101

        • Anonymous

          R u blind or r u just trying to be argumentative for argumentative sake?

          Ure first two paragraph contradicts itself.  First u say SF4 didnt come to existance because of EVO (I figure u mean the FGC but thats ok…) then u said Capcom gave the green light to SF4 because of online interest in Hyper Fighting (to which this site, ran by the people who organizes EVO, promoted heavily)

          Do you really think that Ono would have a shot in convincing Capcom to produce SF4 had it not been for the loyalty of the FGC?  Do you really believe that srk.com had no influence in drawing up the online download of HF?  Do u think Ono would have even considered SF4 if there was no FGC?

          SF4 didnt magically appear into the arcade, months of beta’s in the US and JPN and feedback from the FGC (specifically srk.com and its members) which led to the great game we all play today.  To say that it was all Capcom and the FGC had no influence in producing a great game is a lie to yourself.

          My SF4 History Class was a joke…

          Try taking FGC History 101

        • Anonymous

          R u blind or r u just trying to be argumentative for argumentative sake?

          Ure first two paragraph contradicts itself.  First u say SF4 didnt come to existance because of EVO (I figure u mean the FGC but thats ok…) then u said Capcom gave the green light to SF4 because of online interest in Hyper Fighting (to which this site, ran by the people who organizes EVO, promoted heavily)

          Do you really think that Ono would have a shot in convincing Capcom to produce SF4 had it not been for the loyalty of the FGC?  Do you really believe that srk.com had no influence in drawing up the online download of HF?  Do u think Ono would have even considered SF4 if there was no FGC?

          SF4 didnt magically appear into the arcade, months of beta’s in the US and JPN and feedback from the FGC (specifically srk.com and its members) which led to the great game we all play today.  To say that it was all Capcom and the FGC had no influence in producing a great game is a lie to yourself.

          My SF4 History Class was a joke…

          Try taking FGC History 101

        • Anonymous

          R u blind or r u just trying to be argumentative for argumentative sake?

          Ure first two paragraph contradicts itself.  First u say SF4 didnt come to existance because of EVO (I figure u mean the FGC but thats ok…) then u said Capcom gave the green light to SF4 because of online interest in Hyper Fighting (to which this site, ran by the people who organizes EVO, promoted heavily)

          Do you really think that Ono would have a shot in convincing Capcom to produce SF4 had it not been for the loyalty of the FGC?  Do you really believe that srk.com had no influence in drawing up the online download of HF?  Do u think Ono would have even considered SF4 if there was no FGC?

          SF4 didnt magically appear into the arcade, months of beta’s in the US and JPN and feedback from the FGC (specifically srk.com and its members) which led to the great game we all play today.  To say that it was all Capcom and the FGC had no influence in producing a great game is a lie to yourself.

          My SF4 History Class was a joke…

          Try taking FGC History 101

        • Anonymous

          R u blind or r u just trying to be argumentative for argumentative sake?

          Ure first two paragraph contradicts itself.  First u say SF4 didnt come to existance because of EVO (I figure u mean the FGC but thats ok…) then u said Capcom gave the green light to SF4 because of online interest in Hyper Fighting (to which this site, ran by the people who organizes EVO, promoted heavily)

          Do you really think that Ono would have a shot in convincing Capcom to produce SF4 had it not been for the loyalty of the FGC?  Do you really believe that srk.com had no influence in drawing up the online download of HF?  Do u think Ono would have even considered SF4 if there was no FGC?

          SF4 didnt magically appear into the arcade, months of beta’s in the US and JPN and feedback from the FGC (specifically srk.com and its members) which led to the great game we all play today.  To say that it was all Capcom and the FGC had no influence in producing a great game is a lie to yourself.

          My SF4 History Class was a joke…

          Try taking FGC History 101

      • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

        [The game "SF4" wouldnt have existed had it not been for tournament
        organizers like the Canon's who year after year find ways to host
        national/international events like EVO.]

        Street Fighter 4 didn’t come into existence because EVO was there. Yoshinori Ono pitched the game to Capcom, and Capcom made a great game. The fighting game community adopted the game quickly because it was a great game. Saying that the hype is what made Street Fighter 4 popular is like saying commercials are what make sugar-coated breakfast cereals delicious.
        Spoiler alert: it’s the sugar, not the mascots, that make things sweet.

        [Capcom finally saw the potential of the FGC and decided to make SF4.]

        Street Fighter 4 development was green-lighted, if I remember correctly, in part because Hyper Fighting on XBox Live generated enough sales and consumer interest to consider a new iteration of the Street Fighter series. Capcom was initially hesitant to develop a new Street Fighter game because it hadn’t done so in almost a decade. The Hyper Fighting re-release showed that a large market of fighting game fans was waiting to be tapped with a new game.
        So every time you remember the hype of Street Fighter 4, remember Hyper Fighting, and arcades. Never forget where these games came from: marketing experimentation and crazy people with Blanka figurines. Risks.

        [So yea the "We built it" is a we the "FGC" that built the hype and success of Street Fighter.]

        Street Fighter 4 required no outside promotion (the marketing term people call “hype”) from tournament organizers to draw attention to the game. The game drew the attention of players by itself. Unpopular games require more hype to get people to play them (BlazBlue, Mortal Kombat, etc.), but where’s the hype for those games? Hype can potentially make a previously unheard of or unpopular game spread across countries and encourage new players to adopt those games. Where’s the hype for those games sitting on the B-Tier? Scheduled in the early morning at the Evolution Finals for an audience of a little more than a handful. Hype for Street Fighter 4 was easy. Hype for other, less popular games is hard. Tournament promoters shouldn’t pat themselves on the back for generating “hype” for a game that had generated it on it’s own.

        The only people who should take credit for the success of Street Fighter 4 are the development staff who produced the game, marketed the game, and continue to support the game years after initial release (balance patches, that kind of stuff). Want to take credit for hype? Take credit for introducing new games to new audiences. Try it with Skullgirls. In the end, the game is what makes or breaks things, not the hype.

        [U apprently have no history of the FGC to make a comment like that.]

        … Consider this SF4 History 1000. And it’s free…

  • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

    “SF4 didn’t magically blow up overnight.  We built it, and we’re going to keep building it.”

    You’re full of it, Cannon.

    SF4 practically did “blow up overnight” when players in the U.S. heard of it; players lined up to jump on that shit. But before that, the game was already headed arcades across the ocean. SF4 needed practically zero maintenance (read: hype) to get players on board. Have the more labor-intensive games in terms of hype (TvC, Melty Blood, Arcana Heart, BlazBlue, Mortal Kombat, etc.)  blown-up yet? Why not?

    In summary: Don’t take credit for the sun rising. Don’t overestimate the effects generated by “hype”. SF4 required almost zero effort on the part of tournament organizers to get people to play it.

  • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

    “SF4 didn’t magically blow up overnight.  We built it, and we’re going to keep building it.”

    You’re full of it, Cannon.

    SF4 practically did “blow up overnight” when players in the U.S. heard of it; players lined up to jump on that shit. But before that, the game was already headed arcades across the ocean. SF4 needed practically zero maintenance (read: hype) to get players on board. Have the more labor-intensive games in terms of hype (TvC, Melty Blood, Arcana Heart, BlazBlue, Mortal Kombat, etc.)  blown-up yet? Why not?

    In summary: Don’t take credit for the sun rising. Don’t overestimate the effects generated by “hype”. SF4 required almost zero effort on the part of tournament organizers to get people to play it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

    Also this hype shit you guys keep rambling about is just a bunch of blacks screaming goofy hood phrases at the top of their lungs

    GET BODIED SON

    U PRINGLES?  KFC MAFUCCA

    STAY SALTY AND FREE SON

    YO MERK HIS FUCCIN ASS

    • Anonymous

      eww. black ppl – a dude in a tapout shirt

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

    Also this hype shit you guys keep rambling about is just a bunch of blacks screaming goofy hood phrases at the top of their lungs

    GET BODIED SON

    U PRINGLES?  KFC MAFUCCA

    STAY SALTY AND FREE SON

    YO MERK HIS FUCCIN ASS

  • Anonymous

    Why is everyone ignoring the fact that “working toghether” with eSports leagues currently would devastate many FGC players.

    If the events become regular and seasonal, the expenses for “pros” go up. That’s where sponsors come in, right? But what happens to players that aren’t sponsored?

    People like me, who went to EVO to play and watch, and interact and shout, and lose my voice shouting LATIF and POONGKO.

    What happens when were pushed aside to the benches, only being able to watch the hype if we pay 8.95$ for a “premium” stream? You see how this is wrong?

    We fighters, we don’t want to sit at home. We want to get in there, we want to take it outside. WE want to make it out to the events, to meet our old friends and enemies, to play money matches. We want to bet, we want to talk shit, we want to give shoutouts on the stream.

    If we become the “Fighting national League herp derp” right now, YOU CAN BET YOUR ASS  we will lose most of that, and the hype will be gone.

    I love watching SC and I support “eSports” 100%. But unless you can provide a business model that can GUARANTEE the FCG culture will remain intact, love it or hate it, you will never achieve success with it, let alone get us to fully support it.

    The day we lose the hype is the day I quit. So yeah, maybe Tom wrote a few things that sound kinda selfish and unreasonable, but after GOING TO EVO and experiencing the hype first hand, I understand his passion, because it’s now my passion too.

    so stay free until you ain’t free eSports

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

      Fuck hype, blacks screaming some guy’s name and STAY FREE GET BODIED SON is retarded

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

      Fuck hype, blacks screaming some guy’s name and STAY FREE GET BODIED SON is retarded

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

      Fuck hype, blacks screaming some guy’s name and STAY FREE GET BODIED SON is retarded

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

      Also FGC culture is apparently having shit hygene and not using deoderant

      • Anonymous

        So is most cultures, unfortunately. Be it Starcraft, FPSs, or real sports. Wish all cultures could get rid of THAT aspect.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

      Also FGC culture is apparently having shit hygene and not using deoderant

  • Anonymous

    Why is everyone ignoring the fact that “working toghether” with eSports leagues currently would devastate many FGC players.

    If the events become regular and seasonal, the expenses for “pros” go up. That’s where sponsors come in, right? But what happens to players that aren’t sponsored?

    People like me, who went to EVO to play and watch, and interact and shout, and lose my voice shouting LATIF and POONGKO.

    What happens when were pushed aside to the benches, only being able to watch the hype if we pay 8.95$ for a “premium” stream? You see how this is wrong?

    We fighters, we don’t want to sit at home. We want to get in there, we want to take it outside. WE want to make it out to the events, to meet our old friends and enemies, to play money matches. We want to bet, we want to talk shit, we want to give shoutouts on the stream.

    If we become the “Fighting national League herp derp” right now, YOU CAN BET YOUR ASS  we will lose most of that, and the hype will be gone.

    I love watching SC and I support “eSports” 100%. But unless you can provide a business model that can GUARANTEE the FCG culture will remain intact, love it or hate it, you will never achieve success with it, let alone get us to fully support it.

    The day we lose the hype is the day I quit. So yeah, maybe Tom wrote a few things that sound kinda selfish and unreasonable, but after GOING TO EVO and experiencing the hype first hand, I understand his passion, because it’s now my passion too.

    so stay free until you ain’t free eSports

  • Anonymous

    Part of why I’m not eager to see the FGC completely embrace the eSports model is that I’m afraid we’ll lose part of our individuality. When you go to a tournament in someone else’s city, you get to play a lot of their locals, see their playstyles, get a feel for their community. I would absolutely hate to see Final Round get turned into MLG Atlanta, NEC into MLG Philly, SoCal Regionals into MLG Irvine, etc.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

      Yeah you get to see cool shit like the local garage dump, the alley some guy got murdered in, the rooftop where drug dealers congregate, and other great sights!

      • Anonymous

        So what’s it like living with your parents at the age of 45?  Seeing as how you have no idea what the FGC really is and/or choose not to understand the main point of the article, all you can really do is be the best keyboard warrior you can be.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

          How’s it feel being a stank ass motherfucker?

          • Anonymous

            Ahah clever.  Don’t hear enough hygiene jokes.  Seeing your posts show that you never post anything of value and hence, why I stooped to your level.  No sense in arguing with you because you don’t seem to listen to reason.  

          • Anonymous

            Ahah clever.  Don’t hear enough hygiene jokes.  Seeing your posts show that you never post anything of value and hence, why I stooped to your level.  No sense in arguing with you because you don’t seem to listen to reason.  

          • Anonymous

            Ahah clever.  Don’t hear enough hygiene jokes.  Seeing your posts show that you never post anything of value and hence, why I stooped to your level.  No sense in arguing with you because you don’t seem to listen to reason.  

          • Anonymous

            Ahah clever.  Don’t hear enough hygiene jokes.  Seeing your posts show that you never post anything of value and hence, why I stooped to your level.  No sense in arguing with you because you don’t seem to listen to reason.  

          • Anonymous

            Ahah clever.  Don’t hear enough hygiene jokes.  Seeing your posts show that you never post anything of value and hence, why I stooped to your level.  No sense in arguing with you because you don’t seem to listen to reason.  

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

          How’s it feel being a stank ass motherfucker?

    • http://twitter.com/fethebox mike freitas

      MLG wouldn’t restructure their circuit to take over established tourneys. This would simply be more tournaments for people to participate in.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Marcus-Hultkvist/534362949 Marcus Hultkvist

    I was at dreamhack and i can agree with the stuff your saying about the difference between the sc2 and sf4 in the final, but you also have to understand the sf4 stream was a community ran event by a resident swedish player and worstgiefever from the uk but put in a place where highly professional esport casters were placed.

    The commentators was players part of the europe scene but they clearly didnt have the same experience like those pro payed casters but it was still community people behind it. Even thou the host saying stupid shit like “mashing button heroes” i was still happy that dreamhack can keep our local scene alive with at-least 1 big event and a swedish championship series.

    In the nordic where dreamhack takes place we dont have any big scenes the biggest we have is consists maybe of 15 people in the capital. Dreamhack is our “evo” there are no majors at all in our country other than dreamhack so the players here are happy with it, we haven’t evolved yet were swedish players make their own community tournaments around the country.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rpulone Robert Pulone

    As a Starcraft player and a Street Fighter player, it’s very frustrating to see the disconnect. I’m on the side of the FGC on this issue, but it’s still worth it to try and make slight amends even if it’s inconsequential. We may need a new and very moderate ambassador that can reach compromises between eSports and the FCG in order to host a successful fighting game event. That person will probably need preexisting ties to both sides.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rpulone Robert Pulone

    As a Starcraft player and a Street Fighter player, it’s very frustrating to see the disconnect. I’m on the side of the FGC on this issue, but it’s still worth it to try and make slight amends even if it’s inconsequential. We may need a new and very moderate ambassador that can reach compromises between eSports and the FCG in order to host a successful fighting game event. That person will probably need preexisting ties to both sides.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rpulone Robert Pulone

    As a Starcraft player and a Street Fighter player, it’s very frustrating to see the disconnect. I’m on the side of the FGC on this issue, but it’s still worth it to try and make slight amends even if it’s inconsequential. We may need a new and very moderate ambassador that can reach compromises between eSports and the FCG in order to host a successful fighting game event. That person will probably need preexisting ties to both sides.

    • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

      I don’t think the middle ground between fighting games and everyone else will be just one individual who happens to play both games. It’s up to every camp (fighting games, strategy games, shooter games) to get along and not act like douchebags; that goes for the competitors, the spectators, and the officiating parties. Having just one ambassador mediating things between multiple groups would be unwieldy. One guy who “plays fighting games, first person shooters, real-time strategy games, and other games” sounds like the average casual consumer of video game media; that’s most people. The problems stem from those who ONLY play fighting games or ONLY play Starcraft 2, who are a small but very noisy and annoying minority.

      The individual camps need to stop proselytizing and stop thinking that their game is the best and all other games are junk. In the Live on Three webcast, one of the individuals claimed that (paraphrasing, of course) “Quake fans don’t dump on Counter-Strike fans, and the Starcraft fans don’t dump on Quake” (that could be incorrect, but I think it’s close). I would like to state that this has been entirely untrue since the beginning of time. Perhaps the competitors and most of the spectators keep their opinions under their hats for the most part, but hardcore Quake fans don’t really like Unreal Tournament and Starcraft fans don’t really like DOTA, and vice versa. Otherwise, they would all be playing all other games instead of just one or two.

      Fighting game players don’t adhere to those restrictions; we happily deride games we don’t play and invented a language to explain the pros and cons of our favorite games, much to the disdain of those who think speaking CTF-dialect is fucking retarded or the result of someone commentating while having a stroke. There’s also a more drama in the fighting game community. A LOT MORE. Almost moreso than professional wrestling. Whether that is a good or bad thing is best left up to others to judge, but it doesn’t paint the overall fighting game community as a group of mature, respectful skilled practitioners of video game-playing.

      And that’s another thing: IT’S VIDEO GAMES! Chill the fuck out, people. We should all get along so that a very limited number of people can do this for a comfortable living so that Evil Geniuses and other sponsoring groups can mooch off of them like parasites.

    • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

      I don’t think the middle ground between fighting games and everyone else will be just one individual who happens to play both games. It’s up to every camp (fighting games, strategy games, shooter games) to get along and not act like douchebags; that goes for the competitors, the spectators, and the officiating parties. Having just one ambassador mediating things between multiple groups would be unwieldy. One guy who “plays fighting games, first person shooters, real-time strategy games, and other games” sounds like the average casual consumer of video game media; that’s most people. The problems stem from those who ONLY play fighting games or ONLY play Starcraft 2, who are a small but very noisy and annoying minority.

      The individual camps need to stop proselytizing and stop thinking that their game is the best and all other games are junk. In the Live on Three webcast, one of the individuals claimed that (paraphrasing, of course) “Quake fans don’t dump on Counter-Strike fans, and the Starcraft fans don’t dump on Quake” (that could be incorrect, but I think it’s close). I would like to state that this has been entirely untrue since the beginning of time. Perhaps the competitors and most of the spectators keep their opinions under their hats for the most part, but hardcore Quake fans don’t really like Unreal Tournament and Starcraft fans don’t really like DOTA, and vice versa. Otherwise, they would all be playing all other games instead of just one or two.

      Fighting game players don’t adhere to those restrictions; we happily deride games we don’t play and invented a language to explain the pros and cons of our favorite games, much to the disdain of those who think speaking CTF-dialect is fucking retarded or the result of someone commentating while having a stroke. There’s also a more drama in the fighting game community. A LOT MORE. Almost moreso than professional wrestling. Whether that is a good or bad thing is best left up to others to judge, but it doesn’t paint the overall fighting game community as a group of mature, respectful skilled practitioners of video game-playing.

      And that’s another thing: IT’S VIDEO GAMES! Chill the fuck out, people. We should all get along so that a very limited number of people can do this for a comfortable living so that Evil Geniuses and other sponsoring groups can mooch off of them like parasites.

    • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

      I don’t think the middle ground between fighting games and everyone else will be just one individual who happens to play both games. It’s up to every camp (fighting games, strategy games, shooter games) to get along and not act like douchebags; that goes for the competitors, the spectators, and the officiating parties. Having just one ambassador mediating things between multiple groups would be unwieldy. One guy who “plays fighting games, first person shooters, real-time strategy games, and other games” sounds like the average casual consumer of video game media; that’s most people. The problems stem from those who ONLY play fighting games or ONLY play Starcraft 2, who are a small but very noisy and annoying minority.

      The individual camps need to stop proselytizing and stop thinking that their game is the best and all other games are junk. In the Live on Three webcast, one of the individuals claimed that (paraphrasing, of course) “Quake fans don’t dump on Counter-Strike fans, and the Starcraft fans don’t dump on Quake” (that could be incorrect, but I think it’s close). I would like to state that this has been entirely untrue since the beginning of time. Perhaps the competitors and most of the spectators keep their opinions under their hats for the most part, but hardcore Quake fans don’t really like Unreal Tournament and Starcraft fans don’t really like DOTA, and vice versa. Otherwise, they would all be playing all other games instead of just one or two.

      Fighting game players don’t adhere to those restrictions; we happily deride games we don’t play and invented a language to explain the pros and cons of our favorite games, much to the disdain of those who think speaking CTF-dialect is fucking retarded or the result of someone commentating while having a stroke. There’s also a more drama in the fighting game community. A LOT MORE. Almost moreso than professional wrestling. Whether that is a good or bad thing is best left up to others to judge, but it doesn’t paint the overall fighting game community as a group of mature, respectful skilled practitioners of video game-playing.

      And that’s another thing: IT’S VIDEO GAMES! Chill the fuck out, people. We should all get along so that a very limited number of people can do this for a comfortable living so that Evil Geniuses and other sponsoring groups can mooch off of them like parasites.

    • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

      I don’t think the middle ground between fighting games and everyone else will be just one individual who happens to play both games. It’s up to every camp (fighting games, strategy games, shooter games) to get along and not act like douchebags; that goes for the competitors, the spectators, and the officiating parties. Having just one ambassador mediating things between multiple groups would be unwieldy. One guy who “plays fighting games, first person shooters, real-time strategy games, and other games” sounds like the average casual consumer of video game media; that’s most people. The problems stem from those who ONLY play fighting games or ONLY play Starcraft 2, who are a small but very noisy and annoying minority.

      The individual camps need to stop proselytizing and stop thinking that their game is the best and all other games are junk. In the Live on Three webcast, one of the individuals claimed that (paraphrasing, of course) “Quake fans don’t dump on Counter-Strike fans, and the Starcraft fans don’t dump on Quake” (that could be incorrect, but I think it’s close). I would like to state that this has been entirely untrue since the beginning of time. Perhaps the competitors and most of the spectators keep their opinions under their hats for the most part, but hardcore Quake fans don’t really like Unreal Tournament and Starcraft fans don’t really like DOTA, and vice versa. Otherwise, they would all be playing all other games instead of just one or two.

      Fighting game players don’t adhere to those restrictions; we happily deride games we don’t play and invented a language to explain the pros and cons of our favorite games, much to the disdain of those who think speaking CTF-dialect is fucking retarded or the result of someone commentating while having a stroke. There’s also a more drama in the fighting game community. A LOT MORE. Almost moreso than professional wrestling. Whether that is a good or bad thing is best left up to others to judge, but it doesn’t paint the overall fighting game community as a group of mature, respectful skilled practitioners of video game-playing.

      And that’s another thing: IT’S VIDEO GAMES! Chill the fuck out, people. We should all get along so that a very limited number of people can do this for a comfortable living so that Evil Geniuses and other sponsoring groups can mooch off of them like parasites.

    • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

      I don’t think the middle ground between fighting games and everyone else will be just one individual who happens to play both games. It’s up to every camp (fighting games, strategy games, shooter games) to get along and not act like douchebags; that goes for the competitors, the spectators, and the officiating parties. Having just one ambassador mediating things between multiple groups would be unwieldy. One guy who “plays fighting games, first person shooters, real-time strategy games, and other games” sounds like the average casual consumer of video game media; that’s most people. The problems stem from those who ONLY play fighting games or ONLY play Starcraft 2, who are a small but very noisy and annoying minority.

      The individual camps need to stop proselytizing and stop thinking that their game is the best and all other games are junk. In the Live on Three webcast, one of the individuals claimed that (paraphrasing, of course) “Quake fans don’t dump on Counter-Strike fans, and the Starcraft fans don’t dump on Quake” (that could be incorrect, but I think it’s close). I would like to state that this has been entirely untrue since the beginning of time. Perhaps the competitors and most of the spectators keep their opinions under their hats for the most part, but hardcore Quake fans don’t really like Unreal Tournament and Starcraft fans don’t really like DOTA, and vice versa. Otherwise, they would all be playing all other games instead of just one or two.

      Fighting game players don’t adhere to those restrictions; we happily deride games we don’t play and invented a language to explain the pros and cons of our favorite games, much to the disdain of those who think speaking CTF-dialect is fucking retarded or the result of someone commentating while having a stroke. There’s also a more drama in the fighting game community. A LOT MORE. Almost moreso than professional wrestling. Whether that is a good or bad thing is best left up to others to judge, but it doesn’t paint the overall fighting game community as a group of mature, respectful skilled practitioners of video game-playing.

      And that’s another thing: IT’S VIDEO GAMES! Chill the fuck out, people. We should all get along so that a very limited number of people can do this for a comfortable living so that Evil Geniuses and other sponsoring groups can mooch off of them like parasites.

    • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

      I don’t think the middle ground between fighting games and everyone else will be just one individual who happens to play both games. It’s up to every camp (fighting games, strategy games, shooter games) to get along and not act like douchebags; that goes for the competitors, the spectators, and the officiating parties. Having just one ambassador mediating things between multiple groups would be unwieldy. One guy who “plays fighting games, first person shooters, real-time strategy games, and other games” sounds like the average casual consumer of video game media; that’s most people. The problems stem from those who ONLY play fighting games or ONLY play Starcraft 2, who are a small but very noisy and annoying minority.

      The individual camps need to stop proselytizing and stop thinking that their game is the best and all other games are junk. In the Live on Three webcast, one of the individuals claimed that (paraphrasing, of course) “Quake fans don’t dump on Counter-Strike fans, and the Starcraft fans don’t dump on Quake” (that could be incorrect, but I think it’s close). I would like to state that this has been entirely untrue since the beginning of time. Perhaps the competitors and most of the spectators keep their opinions under their hats for the most part, but hardcore Quake fans don’t really like Unreal Tournament and Starcraft fans don’t really like DOTA, and vice versa. Otherwise, they would all be playing all other games instead of just one or two.

      Fighting game players don’t adhere to those restrictions; we happily deride games we don’t play and invented a language to explain the pros and cons of our favorite games, much to the disdain of those who think speaking CTF-dialect is fucking retarded or the result of someone commentating while having a stroke. There’s also a more drama in the fighting game community. A LOT MORE. Almost moreso than professional wrestling. Whether that is a good or bad thing is best left up to others to judge, but it doesn’t paint the overall fighting game community as a group of mature, respectful skilled practitioners of video game-playing.

      And that’s another thing: IT’S VIDEO GAMES! Chill the fuck out, people. We should all get along so that a very limited number of people can do this for a comfortable living so that Evil Geniuses and other sponsoring groups can mooch off of them like parasites.

    • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

      I don’t think the middle ground between fighting games and everyone else will be just one individual who happens to play both games. It’s up to every camp (fighting games, strategy games, shooter games) to get along and not act like douchebags; that goes for the competitors, the spectators, and the officiating parties. Having just one ambassador mediating things between multiple groups would be unwieldy. One guy who “plays fighting games, first person shooters, real-time strategy games, and other games” sounds like the average casual consumer of video game media; that’s most people. The problems stem from those who ONLY play fighting games or ONLY play Starcraft 2, who are a small but very noisy and annoying minority.

      The individual camps need to stop proselytizing and stop thinking that their game is the best and all other games are junk. In the Live on Three webcast, one of the individuals claimed that (paraphrasing, of course) “Quake fans don’t dump on Counter-Strike fans, and the Starcraft fans don’t dump on Quake” (that could be incorrect, but I think it’s close). I would like to state that this has been entirely untrue since the beginning of time. Perhaps the competitors and most of the spectators keep their opinions under their hats for the most part, but hardcore Quake fans don’t really like Unreal Tournament and Starcraft fans don’t really like DOTA, and vice versa. Otherwise, they would all be playing all other games instead of just one or two.

      Fighting game players don’t adhere to those restrictions; we happily deride games we don’t play and invented a language to explain the pros and cons of our favorite games, much to the disdain of those who think speaking CTF-dialect is fucking retarded or the result of someone commentating while having a stroke. There’s also a more drama in the fighting game community. A LOT MORE. Almost moreso than professional wrestling. Whether that is a good or bad thing is best left up to others to judge, but it doesn’t paint the overall fighting game community as a group of mature, respectful skilled practitioners of video game-playing.

      And that’s another thing: IT’S VIDEO GAMES! Chill the fuck out, people. We should all get along so that a very limited number of people can do this for a comfortable living so that Evil Geniuses and other sponsoring groups can mooch off of them like parasites.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rpulone Robert Pulone

    As a Starcraft player and a Street Fighter player, it’s very frustrating to see the disconnect. I’m on the side of the FGC on this issue, but it’s still worth it to try and make slight amends even if it’s inconsequential. We may need a new and very moderate ambassador that can reach compromises between eSports and the FCG in order to host a successful fighting game event. That person will probably need preexisting ties to both sides.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Marcus-Hultkvist/534362949 Marcus Hultkvist

    I agree with fishstix, dreamhack has been supporting the fgc but fgc havnt showed up for it.

     7000$ pricepot and until this year we have only had local europe scene compete for it. atleast top players around the world can show up and see that its ran by local community people but in a professional esport locale im just glad dreamhack gives the game a chance cause its our only major here.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Marcus-Hultkvist/534362949 Marcus Hultkvist

    I agree with fishstix, dreamhack has been supporting the fgc but fgc havnt showed up for it.

     7000$ pricepot and until this year we have only had local europe scene compete for it. atleast top players around the world can show up and see that its ran by local community people but in a professional esport locale im just glad dreamhack gives the game a chance cause its our only major here.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Marcus-Hultkvist/534362949 Marcus Hultkvist

    I agree with fishstix, dreamhack has been supporting the fgc but fgc havnt showed up for it.

     7000$ pricepot and until this year we have only had local europe scene compete for it. atleast top players around the world can show up and see that its ran by local community people but in a professional esport locale im just glad dreamhack gives the game a chance cause its our only major here.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Marcus-Hultkvist/534362949 Marcus Hultkvist

    I agree with fishstix, dreamhack has been supporting the fgc but fgc havnt showed up for it.

     7000$ pricepot and until this year we have only had local europe scene compete for it. atleast top players around the world can show up and see that its ran by local community people but in a professional esport locale im just glad dreamhack gives the game a chance cause its our only major here.

  • http://twitter.com/DoctahErick Erick Viray

    I just have to ask. So let’s say that an E-sport scene comes up with an FGC event. They ask inputs from FGC players on how things are run, etc. What will happen, how will the FGC react? Will the event lack support from the FGC because it wasn’t organized by it’s community? Will that Dreamhack fiasco happen again, or even worse will the FGC boycott that event?

    The community can write their minds here and on other internet mediums. But what do our top players say about this “issue” anyway? If I remember correctly, Gootecks has said himself in some Youtube clip that he dreams of elevating fighting games to the level of e-sports. A year and some months passed by. Excellent Adventures became CrossCounter, and now they’ve joined with Complexity Gaming to become Complexity/CrossCounter. I’m surprised that Gootecks and co. haven’t been mentioned anywhere here.

    If Justin Wong decides to cooperate with the E-sports people, what will the FGC people do? Stone him to death? I’m a competitive gamer in spite of how small our local FGC scene is, but I can see clearly that the elitism is coming from the FGC.

    You can E-crucify me now.

    • Anonymous

      Is it really? I can’t speak for majors outside of Philadelphia, but I know and help the producer of Philly events organize and run our tournaments, and I’ve met some of the prominent organizers from other areas as well, and in general, they’re willing to partner, accept help from, and offer help to anyone willing to help with the scene, so long as the aspects of their events don’t have to be sacrificed in the process.

      So if the E-Sports scene wants to run an FGC event, why would that be a problem to anyone? especially if it’s run correctly? It wouldn’t.

      Thing is, it’s perceived as elitism, but the truth is the stance of the FGC is that the E-Sports scene is simply irrelevant. We have our own hosts, our own experts, and our own leaders that cater specifically to us, so we don’t NEED to care about SC2 or any other genre. So if any part of that community wants to join with the FGC, they need to do so on terms acceptable to the FGC, because most people in the FGC have no desire to be brought into the fold of an E-SPorts model that doesn’t work for us or changes anything positive about the events that we’ve grown to love.

    • Anonymous

      Is it really? I can’t speak for majors outside of Philadelphia, but I know and help the producer of Philly events organize and run our tournaments, and I’ve met some of the prominent organizers from other areas as well, and in general, they’re willing to partner, accept help from, and offer help to anyone willing to help with the scene, so long as the aspects of their events don’t have to be sacrificed in the process.

      So if the E-Sports scene wants to run an FGC event, why would that be a problem to anyone? especially if it’s run correctly? It wouldn’t.

      Thing is, it’s perceived as elitism, but the truth is the stance of the FGC is that the E-Sports scene is simply irrelevant. We have our own hosts, our own experts, and our own leaders that cater specifically to us, so we don’t NEED to care about SC2 or any other genre. So if any part of that community wants to join with the FGC, they need to do so on terms acceptable to the FGC, because most people in the FGC have no desire to be brought into the fold of an E-SPorts model that doesn’t work for us or changes anything positive about the events that we’ve grown to love.

    • Anonymous

      Is it really? I can’t speak for majors outside of Philadelphia, but I know and help the producer of Philly events organize and run our tournaments, and I’ve met some of the prominent organizers from other areas as well, and in general, they’re willing to partner, accept help from, and offer help to anyone willing to help with the scene, so long as the aspects of their events don’t have to be sacrificed in the process.

      So if the E-Sports scene wants to run an FGC event, why would that be a problem to anyone? especially if it’s run correctly? It wouldn’t.

      Thing is, it’s perceived as elitism, but the truth is the stance of the FGC is that the E-Sports scene is simply irrelevant. We have our own hosts, our own experts, and our own leaders that cater specifically to us, so we don’t NEED to care about SC2 or any other genre. So if any part of that community wants to join with the FGC, they need to do so on terms acceptable to the FGC, because most people in the FGC have no desire to be brought into the fold of an E-SPorts model that doesn’t work for us or changes anything positive about the events that we’ve grown to love.

    • Anonymous

      Is it really? I can’t speak for majors outside of Philadelphia, but I know and help the producer of Philly events organize and run our tournaments, and I’ve met some of the prominent organizers from other areas as well, and in general, they’re willing to partner, accept help from, and offer help to anyone willing to help with the scene, so long as the aspects of their events don’t have to be sacrificed in the process.

      So if the E-Sports scene wants to run an FGC event, why would that be a problem to anyone? especially if it’s run correctly? It wouldn’t.

      Thing is, it’s perceived as elitism, but the truth is the stance of the FGC is that the E-Sports scene is simply irrelevant. We have our own hosts, our own experts, and our own leaders that cater specifically to us, so we don’t NEED to care about SC2 or any other genre. So if any part of that community wants to join with the FGC, they need to do so on terms acceptable to the FGC, because most people in the FGC have no desire to be brought into the fold of an E-SPorts model that doesn’t work for us or changes anything positive about the events that we’ve grown to love.

    • Anonymous

      Is it really? I can’t speak for majors outside of Philadelphia, but I know and help the producer of Philly events organize and run our tournaments, and I’ve met some of the prominent organizers from other areas as well, and in general, they’re willing to partner, accept help from, and offer help to anyone willing to help with the scene, so long as the aspects of their events don’t have to be sacrificed in the process.

      So if the E-Sports scene wants to run an FGC event, why would that be a problem to anyone? especially if it’s run correctly? It wouldn’t.

      Thing is, it’s perceived as elitism, but the truth is the stance of the FGC is that the E-Sports scene is simply irrelevant. We have our own hosts, our own experts, and our own leaders that cater specifically to us, so we don’t NEED to care about SC2 or any other genre. So if any part of that community wants to join with the FGC, they need to do so on terms acceptable to the FGC, because most people in the FGC have no desire to be brought into the fold of an E-SPorts model that doesn’t work for us or changes anything positive about the events that we’ve grown to love.

    • Anonymous

      Is it really? I can’t speak for majors outside of Philadelphia, but I know and help the producer of Philly events organize and run our tournaments, and I’ve met some of the prominent organizers from other areas as well, and in general, they’re willing to partner, accept help from, and offer help to anyone willing to help with the scene, so long as the aspects of their events don’t have to be sacrificed in the process.

      So if the E-Sports scene wants to run an FGC event, why would that be a problem to anyone? especially if it’s run correctly? It wouldn’t.

      Thing is, it’s perceived as elitism, but the truth is the stance of the FGC is that the E-Sports scene is simply irrelevant. We have our own hosts, our own experts, and our own leaders that cater specifically to us, so we don’t NEED to care about SC2 or any other genre. So if any part of that community wants to join with the FGC, they need to do so on terms acceptable to the FGC, because most people in the FGC have no desire to be brought into the fold of an E-SPorts model that doesn’t work for us or changes anything positive about the events that we’ve grown to love.

    • Anonymous

      Is it really? I can’t speak for majors outside of Philadelphia, but I know and help the producer of Philly events organize and run our tournaments, and I’ve met some of the prominent organizers from other areas as well, and in general, they’re willing to partner, accept help from, and offer help to anyone willing to help with the scene, so long as the aspects of their events don’t have to be sacrificed in the process.

      So if the E-Sports scene wants to run an FGC event, why would that be a problem to anyone? especially if it’s run correctly? It wouldn’t.

      Thing is, it’s perceived as elitism, but the truth is the stance of the FGC is that the E-Sports scene is simply irrelevant. We have our own hosts, our own experts, and our own leaders that cater specifically to us, so we don’t NEED to care about SC2 or any other genre. So if any part of that community wants to join with the FGC, they need to do so on terms acceptable to the FGC, because most people in the FGC have no desire to be brought into the fold of an E-SPorts model that doesn’t work for us or changes anything positive about the events that we’ve grown to love.

    • Anonymous

      Is it really? I can’t speak for majors outside of Philadelphia, but I know and help the producer of Philly events organize and run our tournaments, and I’ve met some of the prominent organizers from other areas as well, and in general, they’re willing to partner, accept help from, and offer help to anyone willing to help with the scene, so long as the aspects of their events don’t have to be sacrificed in the process.

      So if the E-Sports scene wants to run an FGC event, why would that be a problem to anyone? especially if it’s run correctly? It wouldn’t.

      Thing is, it’s perceived as elitism, but the truth is the stance of the FGC is that the E-Sports scene is simply irrelevant. We have our own hosts, our own experts, and our own leaders that cater specifically to us, so we don’t NEED to care about SC2 or any other genre. So if any part of that community wants to join with the FGC, they need to do so on terms acceptable to the FGC, because most people in the FGC have no desire to be brought into the fold of an E-SPorts model that doesn’t work for us or changes anything positive about the events that we’ve grown to love.

    • Anonymous

      Is it really? I can’t speak for majors outside of Philadelphia, but I know and help the producer of Philly events organize and run our tournaments, and I’ve met some of the prominent organizers from other areas as well, and in general, they’re willing to partner, accept help from, and offer help to anyone willing to help with the scene, so long as the aspects of their events don’t have to be sacrificed in the process.

      So if the E-Sports scene wants to run an FGC event, why would that be a problem to anyone? especially if it’s run correctly? It wouldn’t.

      Thing is, it’s perceived as elitism, but the truth is the stance of the FGC is that the E-Sports scene is simply irrelevant. We have our own hosts, our own experts, and our own leaders that cater specifically to us, so we don’t NEED to care about SC2 or any other genre. So if any part of that community wants to join with the FGC, they need to do so on terms acceptable to the FGC, because most people in the FGC have no desire to be brought into the fold of an E-SPorts model that doesn’t work for us or changes anything positive about the events that we’ve grown to love.

    • Anonymous

      Is it really? I can’t speak for majors outside of Philadelphia, but I know and help the producer of Philly events organize and run our tournaments, and I’ve met some of the prominent organizers from other areas as well, and in general, they’re willing to partner, accept help from, and offer help to anyone willing to help with the scene, so long as the aspects of their events don’t have to be sacrificed in the process.

      So if the E-Sports scene wants to run an FGC event, why would that be a problem to anyone? especially if it’s run correctly? It wouldn’t.

      Thing is, it’s perceived as elitism, but the truth is the stance of the FGC is that the E-Sports scene is simply irrelevant. We have our own hosts, our own experts, and our own leaders that cater specifically to us, so we don’t NEED to care about SC2 or any other genre. So if any part of that community wants to join with the FGC, they need to do so on terms acceptable to the FGC, because most people in the FGC have no desire to be brought into the fold of an E-SPorts model that doesn’t work for us or changes anything positive about the events that we’ve grown to love.

    • Anonymous

      Is it really? I can’t speak for majors outside of Philadelphia, but I know and help the producer of Philly events organize and run our tournaments, and I’ve met some of the prominent organizers from other areas as well, and in general, they’re willing to partner, accept help from, and offer help to anyone willing to help with the scene, so long as the aspects of their events don’t have to be sacrificed in the process.

      So if the E-Sports scene wants to run an FGC event, why would that be a problem to anyone? especially if it’s run correctly? It wouldn’t.

      Thing is, it’s perceived as elitism, but the truth is the stance of the FGC is that the E-Sports scene is simply irrelevant. We have our own hosts, our own experts, and our own leaders that cater specifically to us, so we don’t NEED to care about SC2 or any other genre. So if any part of that community wants to join with the FGC, they need to do so on terms acceptable to the FGC, because most people in the FGC have no desire to be brought into the fold of an E-SPorts model that doesn’t work for us or changes anything positive about the events that we’ve grown to love.

    • Anonymous

      Is it really? I can’t speak for majors outside of Philadelphia, but I know and help the producer of Philly events organize and run our tournaments, and I’ve met some of the prominent organizers from other areas as well, and in general, they’re willing to partner, accept help from, and offer help to anyone willing to help with the scene, so long as the aspects of their events don’t have to be sacrificed in the process.

      So if the E-Sports scene wants to run an FGC event, why would that be a problem to anyone? especially if it’s run correctly? It wouldn’t.

      Thing is, it’s perceived as elitism, but the truth is the stance of the FGC is that the E-Sports scene is simply irrelevant. We have our own hosts, our own experts, and our own leaders that cater specifically to us, so we don’t NEED to care about SC2 or any other genre. So if any part of that community wants to join with the FGC, they need to do so on terms acceptable to the FGC, because most people in the FGC have no desire to be brought into the fold of an E-SPorts model that doesn’t work for us or changes anything positive about the events that we’ve grown to love.

  • http://twitter.com/DoctahErick Erick Viray

    I just have to ask. So let’s say that an E-sport scene comes up with an FGC event. They ask inputs from FGC players on how things are run, etc. What will happen, how will the FGC react? Will the event lack support from the FGC because it wasn’t organized by it’s community? Will that Dreamhack fiasco happen again, or even worse will the FGC boycott that event?

    The community can write their minds here and on other internet mediums. But what do our top players say about this “issue” anyway? If I remember correctly, Gootecks has said himself in some Youtube clip that he dreams of elevating fighting games to the level of e-sports. A year and some months passed by. Excellent Adventures became CrossCounter, and now they’ve joined with Complexity Gaming to become Complexity/CrossCounter. I’m surprised that Gootecks and co. haven’t been mentioned anywhere here.

    If Justin Wong decides to cooperate with the E-sports people, what will the FGC people do? Stone him to death? I’m a competitive gamer in spite of how small our local FGC scene is, but I can see clearly that the elitism is coming from the FGC.

    You can E-crucify me now.

  • http://twitter.com/DoctahErick Erick Viray

    I just have to ask. So let’s say that an E-sport scene comes up with an FGC event. They ask inputs from FGC players on how things are run, etc. What will happen, how will the FGC react? Will the event lack support from the FGC because it wasn’t organized by it’s community? Will that Dreamhack fiasco happen again, or even worse will the FGC boycott that event?

    The community can write their minds here and on other internet mediums. But what do our top players say about this “issue” anyway? If I remember correctly, Gootecks has said himself in some Youtube clip that he dreams of elevating fighting games to the level of e-sports. A year and some months passed by. Excellent Adventures became CrossCounter, and now they’ve joined with Complexity Gaming to become Complexity/CrossCounter. I’m surprised that Gootecks and co. haven’t been mentioned anywhere here.

    If Justin Wong decides to cooperate with the E-sports people, what will the FGC people do? Stone him to death? I’m a competitive gamer in spite of how small our local FGC scene is, but I can see clearly that the elitism is coming from the FGC.

    You can E-crucify me now.

  • http://twitter.com/DoctahErick Erick Viray

    I just have to ask. So let’s say that an E-sport scene comes up with an FGC event. They ask inputs from FGC players on how things are run, etc. What will happen, how will the FGC react? Will the event lack support from the FGC because it wasn’t organized by it’s community? Will that Dreamhack fiasco happen again, or even worse will the FGC boycott that event?

    The community can write their minds here and on other internet mediums. But what do our top players say about this “issue” anyway? If I remember correctly, Gootecks has said himself in some Youtube clip that he dreams of elevating fighting games to the level of e-sports. A year and some months passed by. Excellent Adventures became CrossCounter, and now they’ve joined with Complexity Gaming to become Complexity/CrossCounter. I’m surprised that Gootecks and co. haven’t been mentioned anywhere here.

    If Justin Wong decides to cooperate with the E-sports people, what will the FGC people do? Stone him to death? I’m a competitive gamer in spite of how small our local FGC scene is, but I can see clearly that the elitism is coming from the FGC.

    You can E-crucify me now.

  • http://twitter.com/DoctahErick Erick Viray

    I just have to ask. So let’s say that an E-sport scene comes up with an FGC event. They ask inputs from FGC players on how things are run, etc. What will happen, how will the FGC react? Will the event lack support from the FGC because it wasn’t organized by it’s community? Will that Dreamhack fiasco happen again, or even worse will the FGC boycott that event?

    The community can write their minds here and on other internet mediums. But what do our top players say about this “issue” anyway? If I remember correctly, Gootecks has said himself in some Youtube clip that he dreams of elevating fighting games to the level of e-sports. A year and some months passed by. Excellent Adventures became CrossCounter, and now they’ve joined with Complexity Gaming to become Complexity/CrossCounter. I’m surprised that Gootecks and co. haven’t been mentioned anywhere here.

    If Justin Wong decides to cooperate with the E-sports people, what will the FGC people do? Stone him to death? I’m a competitive gamer in spite of how small our local FGC scene is, but I can see clearly that the elitism is coming from the FGC.

    You can E-crucify me now.

  • http://twitter.com/sWooZ1e Adande sWooZie

    I love Scoots and he is entitled to his opinion. Its not so much that the FGC is too stubborn to get along w/ the broader eSports community, GUYS, a number of us are too stubborn to get along within our OWN community! FACT.

    A house divided against itself cannot stand. PERIOD. 

    For example, on the house mic at Devestation 2009, I say “Okay, next game on deck… Soul Calibur!” And a popular figure in the community yells out “Soul Calibur SUCKS!!” Is one of many examples that respect isn’t there and a lot of players in the spotlight like to complain via blogs/facebook/twitter/interviews and events almost to the point where there is no filter and its a domino effect. The decay of respect and you as a player are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Making videos about why a community sucks is you being a part of the problem. Yelling and tearing down another fighting game cuz you don’t like it at an event (or even on a forum) is you being part of the problem. Also not sure why out of all the millions of pictures to use available on the internet MASTER’s pic is used cuz it really has little to do with the overall article. Same if you were to show Diago helping an old lady at a nursing home he works at. Show a screen cap of a fighting game for your interview. Not all of us have glorious day jobs but little pokes like this is a good example that add to the overall picture. Be the solution.
    Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga have sponsors willing to pull trucks of money up into their driveways not because their music is so AMAZING- it’s because of their following and the support they get. It takes money to run a league. Money comes from sponsors // Sponsors only care about one thing. Numbers. How many eyes will see my product. There are fighting games and leagues that I’m not huge fans of but I’ll support every single one as much as I can because I look at the big picture. I’m gonna rep Street Fighter, DOA, Marvel and whatever fighting game is out there and even leave my computer on any streams you guys host when I leave my house cuz when you stop the bull crap, you can see we’re all brothers on the same team. I look forward to the day when we can get Bieber and Gaga support for the FGC and comments like the one Scoots made get laughed at.

    • Anonymous

      Regarding the “house divided” point:

      The problem is that we’re trying to lump every fighting game under one umbrella community and that’s why you get people screaming out “SOUL CALIBUR SUCKS”

      StarCraft doesn’t need other RTS games to stand on its own two feet.  Poker doesn’t need Blackjack to run a tournament.  Football doesn’t need Baseball, and so on you get the point — or do you?

      Why can’t we have separate communities for fighters?  Let Smash be Smash.  Let Tekken run their own stuff.  Not everyone has to like the same games as you do.  I may follow Basketball but does that mean I should also like and respect Golf? 

      Get real.

  • http://twitter.com/sWooZ1e Adande sWooZie

    I love Scoots and he is entitled to his opinion. Its not so much that the FGC is too stubborn to get along w/ the broader eSports community, GUYS, a number of us are too stubborn to get along within our OWN community! FACT.

    A house divided against itself cannot stand. PERIOD. 

    For example, on the house mic at Devestation 2009, I say “Okay, next game on deck… Soul Calibur!” And a popular figure in the community yells out “Soul Calibur SUCKS!!” Is one of many examples that respect isn’t there and a lot of players in the spotlight like to complain via blogs/facebook/twitter/interviews and events almost to the point where there is no filter and its a domino effect. The decay of respect and you as a player are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Making videos about why a community sucks is you being a part of the problem. Yelling and tearing down another fighting game cuz you don’t like it at an event (or even on a forum) is you being part of the problem. Also not sure why out of all the millions of pictures to use available on the internet MASTER’s pic is used cuz it really has little to do with the overall article. Same if you were to show Diago helping an old lady at a nursing home he works at. Show a screen cap of a fighting game for your interview. Not all of us have glorious day jobs but little pokes like this is a good example that add to the overall picture. Be the solution.
    Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga have sponsors willing to pull trucks of money up into their driveways not because their music is so AMAZING- it’s because of their following and the support they get. It takes money to run a league. Money comes from sponsors // Sponsors only care about one thing. Numbers. How many eyes will see my product. There are fighting games and leagues that I’m not huge fans of but I’ll support every single one as much as I can because I look at the big picture. I’m gonna rep Street Fighter, DOA, Marvel and whatever fighting game is out there and even leave my computer on any streams you guys host when I leave my house cuz when you stop the bull crap, you can see we’re all brothers on the same team. I look forward to the day when we can get Bieber and Gaga support for the FGC and comments like the one Scoots made get laughed at.

  • http://www.facebook.com/albert.h.renyut Albert Hr

    well, as both a starcraft player and a fighting game player, I have to say there are solid truths in this article. The major thing that prevents the Fighting Game Community to join the broader e-sports is because the e-sports ignorance to inputs from the FGC (not the weird name of e-sports). They also forgot that e-sports became what it is today is because of the efforts of the initial community (FPS, RTS comm)before it was as big as it is now. If only e-sports takes inputs from FGC, it might smooths things out….

    if this keeps up (e-sports ignorance) I would prefer the FGC to stay as it is, but if that problem is resolved.. why not ?

    You’ve got to admit the events of e-sports (especially Starcraft) is really good, I’m lovin it…

  • http://www.facebook.com/albert.h.renyut Albert Hr

    well, as both a starcraft player and a fighting game player, I have to say there are solid truths in this article. The major thing that prevents the Fighting Game Community to join the broader e-sports is because the e-sports ignorance to inputs from the FGC (not the weird name of e-sports). They also forgot that e-sports became what it is today is because of the efforts of the initial community (FPS, RTS comm)before it was as big as it is now. If only e-sports takes inputs from FGC, it might smooths things out….

    if this keeps up (e-sports ignorance) I would prefer the FGC to stay as it is, but if that problem is resolved.. why not ?

    You’ve got to admit the events of e-sports (especially Starcraft) is really good, I’m lovin it…

  • http://www.facebook.com/albert.h.renyut Albert Hr

    well, as both a starcraft player and a fighting game player, I have to say there are solid truths in this article. The major thing that prevents the Fighting Game Community to join the broader e-sports is because the e-sports ignorance to inputs from the FGC (not the weird name of e-sports). They also forgot that e-sports became what it is today is because of the efforts of the initial community (FPS, RTS comm)before it was as big as it is now. If only e-sports takes inputs from FGC, it might smooths things out….

    if this keeps up (e-sports ignorance) I would prefer the FGC to stay as it is, but if that problem is resolved.. why not ?

    You’ve got to admit the events of e-sports (especially Starcraft) is really good, I’m lovin it…

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=512147398 Alexis A. Rivera-Montalvo

    So….. why don’t WE start an eSports fighting game league?  Wouldn’t it be easier to merge with other leagues if we had one to begin with?

    What would we need, let’s see.  LOTS of stats.  I want to know J. Wong’s percentage of attacks that are light, how many of his heavies whiff vs. hit at max range, and lots of other interesting tidbits, such as dropped 1-frame links, percentage of times he wakes up with a reversal move, etc. Sports have a LOT of stats, and preparing for a game in sports requires this knowledge as much as video feed.

    Next we would need… rules.  Duh, same rules we use in tournaments.  Winner keeps character/team but may change ultra/order, loser can change team and order.  2 out of 3 except in the finals, double elim, 3 out of 5 in finals (or more, maybe a ft10?). And obviously, three stocks, no items, Final Destination. [/smashpun]

    Finally we need people willing and able to make this happen…….. good luck!

    • http://twitter.com/Yanushik Yanushik Cerda

      Although I know those stats you presented were purely for example purposes, I would like to point out that a whiffed attack is not necessarily a mistake. And a missed one frame link is not necessarilly a mistake either (counter-hit frame trap).

    • http://twitter.com/Yanushik Yanushik Cerda

      Although I know those stats you presented were purely for example purposes, I would like to point out that a whiffed attack is not necessarily a mistake. And a missed one frame link is not necessarilly a mistake either (counter-hit frame trap).

    • http://twitter.com/Yanushik Yanushik Cerda

      Although I know those stats you presented were purely for example purposes, I would like to point out that a whiffed attack is not necessarily a mistake. And a missed one frame link is not necessarilly a mistake either (counter-hit frame trap).

    • http://twitter.com/Yanushik Yanushik Cerda

      Although I know those stats you presented were purely for example purposes, I would like to point out that a whiffed attack is not necessarily a mistake. And a missed one frame link is not necessarilly a mistake either (counter-hit frame trap).

    • http://twitter.com/Yanushik Yanushik Cerda

      Although I know those stats you presented were purely for example purposes, I would like to point out that a whiffed attack is not necessarily a mistake. And a missed one frame link is not necessarilly a mistake either (counter-hit frame trap).

    • http://twitter.com/Yanushik Yanushik Cerda

      Although I know those stats you presented were purely for example purposes, I would like to point out that a whiffed attack is not necessarily a mistake. And a missed one frame link is not necessarilly a mistake either (counter-hit frame trap).

    • http://twitter.com/Yanushik Yanushik Cerda

      Although I know those stats you presented were purely for example purposes, I would like to point out that a whiffed attack is not necessarily a mistake. And a missed one frame link is not necessarilly a mistake either (counter-hit frame trap).

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=512147398 Alexis A. Rivera-Montalvo

        That’s what makes the stats more interesting.  What you can get from them combined with footage.

    • http://twitter.com/Yanushik Yanushik Cerda

      Although I know those stats you presented were purely for example purposes, I would like to point out that a whiffed attack is not necessarily a mistake. And a missed one frame link is not necessarilly a mistake either (counter-hit frame trap).

    • http://twitter.com/Yanushik Yanushik Cerda

      Although I know those stats you presented were purely for example purposes, I would like to point out that a whiffed attack is not necessarily a mistake. And a missed one frame link is not necessarilly a mistake either (counter-hit frame trap).

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=512147398 Alexis A. Rivera-Montalvo

    So….. why don’t WE start an eSports fighting game league?  Wouldn’t it be easier to merge with other leagues if we had one to begin with?

    What would we need, let’s see.  LOTS of stats.  I want to know J. Wong’s percentage of attacks that are light, how many of his heavies whiff vs. hit at max range, and lots of other interesting tidbits, such as dropped 1-frame links, percentage of times he wakes up with a reversal move, etc. Sports have a LOT of stats, and preparing for a game in sports requires this knowledge as much as video feed.

    Next we would need… rules.  Duh, same rules we use in tournaments.  Winner keeps character/team but may change ultra/order, loser can change team and order.  2 out of 3 except in the finals, double elim, 3 out of 5 in finals (or more, maybe a ft10?). And obviously, three stocks, no items, Final Destination. [/smashpun]

    Finally we need people willing and able to make this happen…….. good luck!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=512147398 Alexis A. Rivera-Montalvo

    So….. why don’t WE start an eSports fighting game league?  Wouldn’t it be easier to merge with other leagues if we had one to begin with?

    What would we need, let’s see.  LOTS of stats.  I want to know J. Wong’s percentage of attacks that are light, how many of his heavies whiff vs. hit at max range, and lots of other interesting tidbits, such as dropped 1-frame links, percentage of times he wakes up with a reversal move, etc. Sports have a LOT of stats, and preparing for a game in sports requires this knowledge as much as video feed.

    Next we would need… rules.  Duh, same rules we use in tournaments.  Winner keeps character/team but may change ultra/order, loser can change team and order.  2 out of 3 except in the finals, double elim, 3 out of 5 in finals (or more, maybe a ft10?). And obviously, three stocks, no items, Final Destination. [/smashpun]

    Finally we need people willing and able to make this happen…….. good luck!

  • http://www.facebook.com/adrian.c.collins Adrian Collins

    All this talk about the FGC having to sell out to MLG to get big OR ELSE we’ll have to be forever small in the corner…. please.

    Has ANYONE considered the possibility that both can co-exist at the same time? We can have a MLG style league as well as the smaller grass roots events. Nothing is preventing that from happening.

  • http://www.facebook.com/adrian.c.collins Adrian Collins

    All this talk about the FGC having to sell out to MLG to get big OR ELSE we’ll have to be forever small in the corner…. please.

    Has ANYONE considered the possibility that both can co-exist at the same time? We can have a MLG style league as well as the smaller grass roots events. Nothing is preventing that from happening.

  • http://www.facebook.com/adrian.c.collins Adrian Collins

    All this talk about the ‘ esports ‘ and FGC never wanting to be give up either side. My question is: Why can’t they both co-exist?

    We can still have our own grass roots events ( culminating with the Evo, which should always remain as a the big grass roots event ) as well as the largwe more professional ‘ esports ‘ endorsed ones ( with the proper, popular games, of course! )

    That’s just my thoughts, I’ve only being in the community for a year and a half myself so maybe I’m not as qualified to speak as others are but I’m just putting that out there.

  • http://www.facebook.com/adrian.c.collins Adrian Collins

    All this talk about the ‘ esports ‘ and FGC never wanting to be give up either side. My question is: Why can’t they both co-exist?

    We can still have our own grass roots events ( culminating with the Evo, which should always remain as a the big grass roots event ) as well as the largwe more professional ‘ esports ‘ endorsed ones ( with the proper, popular games, of course! )

    That’s just my thoughts, I’ve only being in the community for a year and a half myself so maybe I’m not as qualified to speak as others are but I’m just putting that out there.

  • http://twitter.com/prslol Miley Cyrus

    Being an FPS player from 99-06, a WoW player from 05 to hopefully like 07 or something and not longer ughhh (lol), and now a FG player since BB came out I’d like to just comment on some things from the outside prospective.

    I feel like you’re making the blunders out to be way too big of a deal. At least when were looking at how shaky competitive gaming has been in general. Or maybe I should say that you’re making it sound one sided, because continuous mistakes have been a big deal but it hasn’t just been the FGC getting the short end of the stick.

    WCG – They’ve randomly changed games on us before. Changed CS to CS:CZ one year when it came out just because it had better graphics. I’ll also say that WCG has always been heavily Asian favored/influence. Theres been controversy over matches in the past that involved asians vs westerners and they often have random games only Asia plays. This is likely why they choose games that were more popular in Asia than the US.

    MLG – Can’t really comment on MLG much since it wasn’t big in the CPU community when they teamed up with you guys at EVO. Lets not act though like Tekken 6 was the only game that they completely shit on. WoW got thrown to the curb by MLG. MLG said they were going to bring in PC FPS games like CS and bought out the biggest American CS site “Gotfrag” only to basically kill it and never add CS to the circuit. I believe they did something similar to the Smash community from what I hear. Personally I’d never get involved with them and I don’t blame you.

    CGS – A joke for everyone. In all honesty the FGC is lucky they picked a game you didn’t actually play. I think overall this hurt the CS community the most as it split top players into two different games and ultimately created 2 separate communities which still exist.

    Now we have about a billion more circuits that picked games for sponsorship reason and screwed over players. CPL world tour using PK a game NO1 played. CPL pushing for CS:S as well as other tournaments. Multiple tournaments not paying out winners. Several fake tournaments, most notably CXG.

    I’ll also say as an FPS player for 7 years I never once knew about the FGC. So I can see how some of the big tournaments messed up when picking fighting games. However, I don’t think thats a good excuse for them. As tournament organizers they should do research on the games that they are using and clearly they didn’t. As I said before though the FGC aren’t the only victims to “eSports” (trust me FPS players always hated the word too).

    Anyways to wrap it up it’s good to know that you’re still open to cooperating with other event organizers. Personally I’ve never really cared much for “eSports” so I can see why the FGC wants to stick to their roots. As an FPS player for so long I feel like I can comment the most about it since “eSports” has pretty much torn us limb by limb over the years and now the genre is dwindling away into console MLG garbage. Oh the nostalgia for the early 2000′s (Q_Q etc.).

    I think theres a lot of tension right now because both FG’s and SC blew up at nearly the same time. SC has always been huge but only in Korea really. This is the first time the western SC scene has seen a ton of exposure, same goes for the FGC. Obviously both sides have their opinions on how things should be run and I think neither side is wrong. Just some examples ->

    Yipes is entertaining and often fun to listen to, but there’s also commentators that are obnoxious and make your ears bleed from yelling. Not to mention how side tracked commentators tend to get in the FGC. Focus is often dropped from the match. At the same time sometimes I want to dry heave after hearing quirky jokes a million times from someone like Day9. ETC. People being right behind the players is fun and exciting but at the same time its obnoxious and distracting.

    To end my giant wall of text I just think feuding is the worse way to go. Both games need to work together or go their own separate ways. Feuding is probably the most annoying thing today in competitive gaming. It wasn’t really like that in the past everyone respected other games and most hate was simply ongoing jokes between communities (like UT v Quake)(not sure if different FG’s bashed eachother). Now people just bash games until they’re off stream (in both SC/FGC) and as we can see from some of the comments here already just shit on the other community.

    /end rant

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Xiong/100000222942260 Marc Xiong

    been following FGC since 04′… SirScoots is correct IMO… the scale of FGC has not reached the likes of RTS/FPS… Hopefully get ‘Headphones’ sponsors for EVO… Dr. Dre headphones anyone? 

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

      Tritton Headphones do support events.

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

      Tritton Headphones do support events.

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

      Tritton Headphones do support events.

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

      Tritton Headphones do support events.

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

      Tritton Headphones do support events.

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

      Tritton Headphones do support events.

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

      Tritton Headphones do support events.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ian-Conway/1059903066 Ian Conway

    I’m a lover of competitive gaming. I love SC2, the fighting game community, and quake duel. I’m also somewhat decent at each of them. The great thing is, its not just playing fighting games, its watching them, i love watching games. MLG does other games, but they no longer compare to sc2 in terms of hype and viewers. I don’t understand what the problem would be with another event to go to, that isn’t just Fighting game focused, what’s wrong with a good MLG event every 2 months for us to watch? i love watching fighting games, i just want more to watch. MLG isn’t gonna hurt the fighting game community, they are gonna have a couple of bad showings( just like in sc2, the first sc2 mlg events were god awful, so unhype) but its just another event, this time with a league type setup rather than just open brackets. maybe a different seeding system is needed, but I highly doubt another event for the FGC to play in is something that is gonna hurt it.

  • Samuel Ryder

    As if the point needed any more cementing and illustrating, we have this article and its subsequent talk back to highlight everything Scoots always brings up.  Instead of taking the high road, displaying a little restraint or humility, and using this as an opportunity to grease the wheels of diplomacy, we have yet another inflammatory piece that highlights why we don’t and have never gotten along with the eSports mainstream.  Bravo, SRK.

  • Samuel Ryder

    As if the point needed any more cementing and illustrating, we have this article and its subsequent talk back to highlight everything Scoots always brings up.  Instead of taking the high road, displaying a little restraint or humility, and using this as an opportunity to grease the wheels of diplomacy, we have yet another inflammatory piece that highlights why we don’t and have never gotten along with the eSports mainstream.  Bravo, SRK.

    • Anonymous

      at least a lot of the resulting discussion going on is more level-headed…

    • Anonymous

      at least a lot of the resulting discussion going on is more level-headed…

    • Anonymous

      at least a lot of the resulting discussion going on is more level-headed…

    • Anonymous

      Yeah, because SirScoots rant was so restraint, humble and diplomatic that I almost missed the part where he acted like an arrogant prick towards the FGC. Bravo, SirScoots.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Eric-Forman/100002368924681 Eric Forman

    Disagree with SirScoots.

    Community run events like Evo WILL BLOW UP. It had 2 million unique viewers last year, much more than any starcraft 2 event.

    I assume most of these 2 millions viewers are part of the 18-34 male demographics that all the TV networks fight tooth and nail over. A lot of sponsors will be interested in promoting their products with Evo next year.

    All we have to do is be PATIENT, the money will come since we already have the huge viewer numbers.

    It’s better that passionate community members like the Evo staff controls 100% of the sponsorship money, so they can reinvest 100% back into the community.

    Rather than say if MLG controls 100% and only gives back a smaller share of it to the community.

    MLG is a business, they want to make a profit. Evo is by the players for the players.

    MLG is known to use strange formats for their fighting game competitions. Like at their MK9 MLG event, it wasn’t double eliminations anyone can enter, it was whoever gets the longest win streak at a station.

    So you had the MK9 Evo champ Perfect Legend snubbing MLG and going to Summer Jam where tournaments are run with the double elim format players enjoy.

    • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

      [MLG is a business, they want to make a profit. Evo is by the players for the players.]

      Both organizations want to make a profit. The difference is the margin. If EVO 2012 fails to bring in enough money, there might not be an EVO 2013. Running tournaments is just as much a business, no matter who runs them.

    • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

      [MLG is a business, they want to make a profit. Evo is by the players for the players.]

      Both organizations want to make a profit. The difference is the margin. If EVO 2012 fails to bring in enough money, there might not be an EVO 2013. Running tournaments is just as much a business, no matter who runs them.

    • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

      [MLG is a business, they want to make a profit. Evo is by the players for the players.]

      Both organizations want to make a profit. The difference is the margin. If EVO 2012 fails to bring in enough money, there might not be an EVO 2013. Running tournaments is just as much a business, no matter who runs them.

    • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

      [MLG is a business, they want to make a profit. Evo is by the players for the players.]

      Both organizations want to make a profit. The difference is the margin. If EVO 2012 fails to bring in enough money, there might not be an EVO 2013. Running tournaments is just as much a business, no matter who runs them.

    • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

      [MLG is a business, they want to make a profit. Evo is by the players for the players.]

      Both organizations want to make a profit. The difference is the margin. If EVO 2012 fails to bring in enough money, there might not be an EVO 2013. Running tournaments is just as much a business, no matter who runs them.

    • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

      [MLG is a business, they want to make a profit. Evo is by the players for the players.]

      Both organizations want to make a profit. The difference is the margin. If EVO 2012 fails to bring in enough money, there might not be an EVO 2013. Running tournaments is just as much a business, no matter who runs them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Eric-Forman/100002368924681 Eric Forman

    Disagree with SirScoots.

    Community run events like Evo WILL BLOW UP. It had 2 million unique viewers last year, much more than any starcraft 2 event.

    I assume most of these 2 millions viewers are part of the 18-34 male demographics that all the TV networks fight tooth and nail over. A lot of sponsors will be interested in promoting their products with Evo next year.

    All we have to do is be PATIENT, the money will come since we already have the huge viewer numbers.

    It’s better that passionate community members like the Evo staff controls 100% of the sponsorship money, so they can reinvest 100% back into the community.

    Rather than say if MLG controls 100% and only gives back a smaller share of it to the community.

    MLG is a business, they want to make a profit. Evo is by the players for the players.

    MLG is known to use strange formats for their fighting game competitions. Like at their MK9 MLG event, it wasn’t double eliminations anyone can enter, it was whoever gets the longest win streak at a station.

    So you had the MK9 Evo champ Perfect Legend snubbing MLG and going to Summer Jam where tournaments are run with the double elim format players enjoy.

  • http://twitter.com/vVvRapture Dakota

    I feel like the FGC sincerely doesn’t know what it wants. If the fighting game players want to be big like SC2 or DOTA or what Halo was to MLG before the SC2 era, then they have to drop this “anti-esports” stance, because esports and all that goes along with it is not going away. 

    If the FGC wants to stay how it is, then stay how you all are. Personally, I enjoy communities just based on whether or not I like the game, so it’s not a bias thing for me.

    Just stop comparing yourselves to SC2, there are so many differences that I don’t see why this keeps being brought up.

    What the FGC honestly needs to do is decide what it wants – if the FGC wants to “blow up” in the same way SC2 has, then you gotta do the same thing SC2 does – you need larger-than-life people generating content for the community EVERY DAY and make it all centralized and make it all marketable. I don’t understand why everyone thinks the FGC itself needs to change to be marketable. If the community wants to keep itself “hood”, “underground” or whatever, then take that status and roll with it. Sponsors eat that kind of unique, youthful, underground, “raw” shit up (see: rap and hip-hop).

    • http://twitter.com/Yanushik Yanushik Cerda

      May I just say that I am not a fan of this condescending tone towards urban culture. And I fear that this may have some racial and or class based untertones.

    • http://twitter.com/Yanushik Yanushik Cerda

      May I just say that I am not a fan of this condescending tone towards urban culture. And I fear that this may have some racial and or class based untertones.

    • http://twitter.com/Yanushik Yanushik Cerda

      May I just say that I am not a fan of this condescending tone towards urban culture. And I fear that this may have some racial and or class based untertones.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dubsteppin-VDubbz/100003193428164 Dubsteppin VDubbz

        Why, because you like to scream shit like GET BODIED SON YALL GETTIN MERKED during tournaments?

    • http://twitter.com/Yanushik Yanushik Cerda

      May I just say that I am not a fan of this condescending tone towards urban culture. And I fear that this may have some racial and or class based untertones.

    • http://twitter.com/Yanushik Yanushik Cerda

      May I just say that I am not a fan of this condescending tone towards urban culture. And I fear that this may have some racial and or class based untertones.

    • http://twitter.com/Yanushik Yanushik Cerda

      May I just say that I am not a fan of this condescending tone towards urban culture. And I fear that this may have some racial and or class based untertones.

    • http://twitter.com/Yanushik Yanushik Cerda

      May I just say that I am not a fan of this condescending tone towards urban culture. And I fear that this may have some racial and or class based untertones.

    • http://twitter.com/Yanushik Yanushik Cerda

      May I just say that I am not a fan of this condescending tone towards urban culture. And I fear that this may have some racial and or class based untertones.

    • http://twitter.com/Yanushik Yanushik Cerda

      May I just say that I am not a fan of this condescending tone towards urban culture. And I fear that this may have some racial and or class based untertones.

    • Anonymous

      Again people that sides with eSport and how its grown seems to think that its the “only” way to grow.

      The FGC has grown considerably in the last few years without the help of eSports.  Actually regardless of the history,feued,whatever with MLG, it was a step backwards for the FGC.

      I truely believe this community will find its way with or without the help of eSports. 

    • Anonymous

      Again people that sides with eSport and how its grown seems to think that its the “only” way to grow.

      The FGC has grown considerably in the last few years without the help of eSports.  Actually regardless of the history,feued,whatever with MLG, it was a step backwards for the FGC.

      I truely believe this community will find its way with or without the help of eSports. 

    • Anonymous

      Again people that sides with eSport and how its grown seems to think that its the “only” way to grow.

      The FGC has grown considerably in the last few years without the help of eSports.  Actually regardless of the history,feued,whatever with MLG, it was a step backwards for the FGC.

      I truely believe this community will find its way with or without the help of eSports. 

    • Anonymous

      Again people that sides with eSport and how its grown seems to think that its the “only” way to grow.

      The FGC has grown considerably in the last few years without the help of eSports.  Actually regardless of the history,feued,whatever with MLG, it was a step backwards for the FGC.

      I truely believe this community will find its way with or without the help of eSports. 

    • Anonymous

      Again people that sides with eSport and how its grown seems to think that its the “only” way to grow.

      The FGC has grown considerably in the last few years without the help of eSports.  Actually regardless of the history,feued,whatever with MLG, it was a step backwards for the FGC.

      I truely believe this community will find its way with or without the help of eSports. 

  • Anonymous

    There is at the very least one major difference between fighting games and games such as SC2, CS1.6 and Quake. The difference is in the name actually – “fighting games”. Whereas you have SC2 and that community and that esport side, that only represents SC2 and not other RTS games. Even among competitive FPS games like CS1.6 and Quake, they are quite separate and don’t trample on each other so much.

    However, we are seen as the ‘Fighting Game Community’, not the SF4 community, not the MVC3 community or the Tekken community. Not to say that these communities don’t exist, but as an abstract in the competitive gaming scene, it is merely fighting games as a whole. And to be honest that generalisation isn’t incorrect. We as fighting game players tend to play multiple fighting games, where you’ll see the same high level players in multiple games, where such a thing is uncommon in other competitive games.

    That doesn’t mean that there isn’t a divide though even among the FGC. There are many styles of fighting games in which the differences are so large that people wont take a liking to certain fighting games and will love others in the same way that people who play CS wont necessarily like Quake or people who play SC wont necessarily like Total Annihilation, but that’s okay. However, because there is such a divide and the fact that we are only seen as one community, means that it seems like that community is crumbling under its own feet.

    This is where the complaints of fighting game streams and stream monster antics become apparent. You obviously get the trolls and assholes, however when you see an SC2 stream, people are there to watch SC2. With a fighting game stream, people start being really vocal and start pubically hating when something like Tekken will come on, or Blazblue, or Mortal Kombat for example.

    While i think keeping the fighting games together is integral to what fighting games (both playing and spectating) is about, people – generally outsiders – dont really understand the underlying communities behind the FGC as a whole and thus dont respect us.

    Just an observation.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ian-Conway/1059903066 Ian Conway

      the fps community shits on each so much, the sc community shits on other games, you are dead wrong on that.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ian-Conway/1059903066 Ian Conway

      the fps community shits on each so much, the sc community shits on other games, you are dead wrong on that.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ian-Conway/1059903066 Ian Conway

      the fps community shits on each so much, the sc community shits on other games, you are dead wrong on that.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ian-Conway/1059903066 Ian Conway

      the fps community shits on each so much, the sc community shits on other games, you are dead wrong on that.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ian-Conway/1059903066 Ian Conway

      the fps community shits on each so much, the sc community shits on other games, you are dead wrong on that.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ian-Conway/1059903066 Ian Conway

      the fps community shits on each so much, the sc community shits on other games, you are dead wrong on that.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ian-Conway/1059903066 Ian Conway

      the fps community shits on each so much, the sc community shits on other games, you are dead wrong on that.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ian-Conway/1059903066 Ian Conway

      the fps community shits on each so much, the sc community shits on other games, you are dead wrong on that.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ian-Conway/1059903066 Ian Conway

      the fps community shits on each so much, the sc community shits on other games, you are dead wrong on that.

      • Anonymous

        his point isn’t that they don’t shit on each other; it’s that they’re widely considered separate from each other and as a result it doesn’t matter if they shit on each other or not. You can’t really say the same thing about the fighting game community because there’s a big split in regards to whether the communities for individual games should remain distinct or not.

      • Anonymous

        I wont deny that they take shots at each other; this is the internet after all. But as spectator sports, each respective game has its separate thing going on, where as fighting games are mostly always together. I like it that way myself and dont think it should change, but it does cause grief and disagreements, which is what outsiders to the FGC see.

      • Anonymous

        I wont deny that they take shots at each other; this is the internet after all. But as spectator sports, each respective game has its separate thing going on, where as fighting games are mostly always together. I like it that way myself and dont think it should change, but it does cause grief and disagreements, which is what outsiders to the FGC see.

      • Anonymous

        I wont deny that they take shots at each other; this is the internet after all. But as spectator sports, each respective game has its separate thing going on, where as fighting games are mostly always together. I like it that way myself and dont think it should change, but it does cause grief and disagreements, which is what outsiders to the FGC see.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ian-Conway/1059903066 Ian Conway

      the fps community shits on each so much, the sc community shits on other games, you are dead wrong on that.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ian-Conway/1059903066 Ian Conway

      the fps community shits on each so much, the sc community shits on other games, you are dead wrong on that.

  • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

    It bothers me that eSports proponents keep falling back on the “Top players don’t get paid enough!” bit, as if that was the only thing that competitive communities were for.

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

      That’s their only argument. We are better in all areas except payout and I think Keits’s payout system is the next best thing for the FGC.

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

      That’s their only argument. We are better in all areas except payout and I think Keits’s payout system is the next best thing for the FGC.

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

      That’s their only argument. We are better in all areas except payout and I think Keits’s payout system is the next best thing for the FGC.

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

      That’s their only argument. We are better in all areas except payout and I think Keits’s payout system is the next best thing for the FGC.

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

      That’s their only argument. We are better in all areas except payout and I think Keits’s payout system is the next best thing for the FGC.

    • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

      That’s their only argument. We are better in all areas except payout and I think Keits’s payout system is the next best thing for the FGC.

  • http://twitter.com/fethebox mike freitas

    http://twitter.com/#!/MrMLGAdam – VP of MLG

    You might want to hear the other side of the story here. I used to be a pro player for MLG and can tell you without a doubt that the league is a lot better than it used to be. I skimmed through a bit of the comments and MLG tournaments are open, however, they’re ran on a seasonal seeding system and the top 16 teams/players are given pro contracts and are seeded in the championship bracket. From there 16 amateur teams fight through an open bracket to make it to the top 32 or pro bracket. There really isn’t any favoritism being played, the higher your seed is the easier your road is.

    If MLG starts doing business with the FGC again I am sure they would be welcoming to any other type of structoring for their tourneys. I can tell you for sure that all of the higher ups at MLG want to have fighting games on their circuit. If you want more tournaments the ball is in your court.

    • hyerty

      Give us the info on the MLG contracts. I heard they are shit

      • http://twitter.com/fethebox mike freitas

        They really aren’t, I don’t want to get into that though. Just take my word on it.

      • http://twitter.com/fethebox mike freitas

        They really aren’t, I don’t want to get into that though. Just take my word on it.

      • http://twitter.com/fethebox mike freitas

        They really aren’t, I don’t want to get into that though. Just take my word on it.

  • Moribund Cadaver

    There’s a lot of points to be considered on both sides before simply dismissing one or the other. For example, a lot of the reactions here show great passion… that’s true. Listen, that’s good in and of itself.

    However, that passion is the sort that also tends to make people defensive, even paranoid, and petty. The same passion that makes FG players devote their life to playing say, SF3, can make them irrational and go on tirades about new games like SFIV.

    In the context of this subject, I feel the FG community is right to feel defensive about what makes it unique, but people need to be very careful that doesn’t make them shortsighted. FGC could benefit from some expansion and alliances, and from getting other communities to understand it better… in the process of that, it would be good for the FGC to go in skeptically, guarded, and defending its traits, but go in all the same.

    I also think it’s true that if Capcom deserves criticism, it’s not for dumb shit like the fact that you personally don’t like the reversal window on a freakin’ dragon punch in one game. What they really deserve criticism for, is in not getting involved more deeply with the community. But be careful how you frame that criticism too – I think it’s clear that INDIVIDUALS at Capcom, including reps and game producers, DO CARE about the community and they WOULD WISH that they could continue to interact and support it to a greater degree.

    The real problem is the Capcom corporate mothership and their executives who don’t really see themselves as a community oriented company. Capcom at the top level is a typical Japanese software publisher. A company like Riot supports League of Legends because /that is their business/. Of COURSE they’re deep into the community because they fully realize that is what keeps them relevant as a company. But Capcom isn’t just about fighting games; they’re a general publisher, and a Japanese one as well, isolated from the big scene here in the west by cultural, language, and physical barriers. So unfortunately, unless individual game producers and community reps can convince them to “get into the competitive gaming business” we may see Capcom remain aloof and relatively unsupportive. It’s a problem since the only companies creating fighting games that are fairly large with a lot of resources are Namco, Capcom, and Sega. Sega and Namco take the Japanese and asian arcade scenes seriously because they’ve got big business there – not so much in the west.

  • Anonymous

    Fantastic article!

    I hope someday it all works out and im prepared to back any idea that will make things better for our beloved games.

  • Anonymous

    Fantastic article!

    I hope someday it all works out and im prepared to back any idea that will make things better for our beloved games.

  • Anonymous

    Fantastic article!

    I hope someday it all works out and im prepared to back any idea that will make things better for our beloved games.

  • Anonymous

    Fantastic article!

    I hope someday it all works out and im prepared to back any idea that will make things better for our beloved games.

  • Anonymous

    Fantastic article!

    I hope someday it all works out and im prepared to back any idea that will make things better for our beloved games.

  • Anonymous

    Fantastic article!

    I hope someday it all works out and im prepared to back any idea that will make things better for our beloved games.

  • Anonymous

    Fantastic article!

    I hope someday it all works out and im prepared to back any idea that will make things better for our beloved games.

  • Anonymous

    Fantastic article!

    I hope someday it all works out and im prepared to back any idea that will make things better for our beloved games.

  • Anonymous

    Fantastic article!

    I hope someday it all works out and im prepared to back any idea that will make things better for our beloved games.

  • Anonymous

    Fantastic article!

    I hope someday it all works out and im prepared to back any idea that will make things better for our beloved games.

  • Anonymous

    Fantastic article!

    I hope someday it all works out and im prepared to back any idea that will make things better for our beloved games.

  • Anonymous

    I figure that I can provide a slightly different perspective on some of these things based on my past experiences. Also, I’m not going to argue lexicon so just think of eSports and competitive gaming as interchangeable terms.

    I was employed by MLG in 2006 to help organize their smash events. This was SSBM’s third season with the company, so the initial tussles and disagreements with the community had mostly been worked out by this point. Even so, we had a staff of 3-5 organizers/judges for an average of 150 participants in just the smash side (events were usually capped at ~1200 for Halo 2). Sure it was tough, and sometimes there were pretty heavy disagreements between top players/community organizers and the upper MLG leadership goals, but for the most part it settled and MLG events were generally accepted as medium- to high-importance tournaments within the community.

    Fast forward a year. MLG decides not to keep SSBM on as a tour title for the 2007 seaspm, simply because it wasn’t generating the revenue needed to justify it. MLG is still a fledgling corporation at this point, so unpopular business decisions may need to be made for its longevity. However, they did not abandon the smash community, and launched a “grassroots” smash campaign, which provided direct support for tournament organizers of the largest annual smash tournaments. MLG had no desire to alienate or abandon smashers, but it realized that with its own eSports model it could not properly cater to the smash community. To this day MLG still provides support to the smash community, although the nature of that support changes year-to-year.

    I believe that one of the largest barriers between eSports companies and the communities of various games are the communities themselves. It’s not the matter of companies not being willing to bend to support the community, or the communities stepping up to make use of eSports events. I think what it comes down to in large part is which came about first: the company or the community. For the FGC in general, we already have our standards down. We have our own events of all sizes, have communities of scale all over the world for new players to get into, guides, technical resources, and community portals. We exist just fine on our own. Now take a look at the games that have been successful in eSports. I admit that I’m ignorant of a lot of their histories, but I feel that in general the communities for those games grew *because* the eSports companies picked them up. That is to say, there was no central pivot point for players or community before the company picked up the game. This is what the eSports companies want because it provides the most stable business model. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing either; so long as that game’s community is satisfied, then all the eSports company did was provide a base for the community to take root and thrive. Back to the FGC, the companies now have the burden of convincing the already established community to make use of its services. If you look at it in terms of a market, the companies have to convince the players that the services they provide will be at least equivalent to what is currently provided by the community at large. This is especially difficult to do when companies have to do everything at cost versus the small army of volunteers prepared to organize tournaments solely for the sake of the community.

    The tl;dr of all this just comes down to a few things: the relationship between eSports companies and established communities isn’t a black and white issue. There are some very easy ways to screw things up, as the article author pointed out. But at the same time, not every venture has been a failed or unproductive one. A traditional eSports model may not apply directly to the FGC, but that doesn’t mean either party should completely disregard the other.

  • Anonymous

    I figure that I can provide a slightly different perspective on some of these things based on my past experiences. Also, I’m not going to argue lexicon so just think of eSports and competitive gaming as interchangeable terms.

    I was employed by MLG in 2006 to help organize their smash events. This was SSBM’s third season with the company, so the initial tussles and disagreements with the community had mostly been worked out by this point. Even so, we had a staff of 3-5 organizers/judges for an average of 150 participants in just the smash side (events were usually capped at ~1200 for Halo 2). Sure it was tough, and sometimes there were pretty heavy disagreements between top players/community organizers and the upper MLG leadership goals, but for the most part it settled and MLG events were generally accepted as medium- to high-importance tournaments within the community.

    Fast forward a year. MLG decides not to keep SSBM on as a tour title for the 2007 seaspm, simply because it wasn’t generating the revenue needed to justify it. MLG is still a fledgling corporation at this point, so unpopular business decisions may need to be made for its longevity. However, they did not abandon the smash community, and launched a “grassroots” smash campaign, which provided direct support for tournament organizers of the largest annual smash tournaments. MLG had no desire to alienate or abandon smashers, but it realized that with its own eSports model it could not properly cater to the smash community. To this day MLG still provides support to the smash community, although the nature of that support changes year-to-year.

    I believe that one of the largest barriers between eSports companies and the communities of various games are the communities themselves. It’s not the matter of companies not being willing to bend to support the community, or the communities stepping up to make use of eSports events. I think what it comes down to in large part is which came about first: the company or the community. For the FGC in general, we already have our standards down. We have our own events of all sizes, have communities of scale all over the world for new players to get into, guides, technical resources, and community portals. We exist just fine on our own. Now take a look at the games that have been successful in eSports. I admit that I’m ignorant of a lot of their histories, but I feel that in general the communities for those games grew *because* the eSports companies picked them up. That is to say, there was no central pivot point for players or community before the company picked up the game. This is what the eSports companies want because it provides the most stable business model. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing either; so long as that game’s community is satisfied, then all the eSports company did was provide a base for the community to take root and thrive. Back to the FGC, the companies now have the burden of convincing the already established community to make use of its services. If you look at it in terms of a market, the companies have to convince the players that the services they provide will be at least equivalent to what is currently provided by the community at large. This is especially difficult to do when companies have to do everything at cost versus the small army of volunteers prepared to organize tournaments solely for the sake of the community.

    The tl;dr of all this just comes down to a few things: the relationship between eSports companies and established communities isn’t a black and white issue. There are some very easy ways to screw things up, as the article author pointed out. But at the same time, not every venture has been a failed or unproductive one. A traditional eSports model may not apply directly to the FGC, but that doesn’t mean either party should completely disregard the other.

  • Anonymous