The Rise of the Armchair Street Fighter

Believe it or not, this unassuming fellow is one of the great Street Fighter polemicists.

Around 10 years ago, Seth Killian wrote an article explaining why Street Fighter rules. In summary: Street Fighter rules because the barrier to entry is so low that almost anyone can become a competitor. Contrary to the world of pro sports, where your relationship with top players is forever relegated to the realm of “fandom”, if you’re even slightly dedicated to fighting games you’ll eventually find yourself one lucky – or unlucky – bracket away from facing off against Justin Wong. That’s why fighting games are great.

Ever the agitator (at least back in those days), Seth implies that sports fandom is the domain of the impotent schlub that, for reasons economic, bureaucratic or athletic, will never stand a chance of even trying to compete at the level he or she so admires. That isn’t the case in fighting games. Fighting games are great because that barrier is infinitely smaller.

So why, post-fighting game resurgence, do we see the phenomenal growth of a new demographic that cares more about cheering on their favorites than competing?

Following this year’s Evo, reports surfaced of large numbers of attendants lining up to get the autographs of top players like Daigo. That kind of thing might be par for the course in the realm of sports, but, as Seth argued, fighting games have always been a different deal – more grassroots, more accessible, more tight-knit, more ego-driven. If we agree with Seth about why Street Fighter rules, we should be clear that this kind of thing just isn’t what we’re about.

It’s only been for a few years that this kind of community member could even exist. Before Street Fighter IV made the wider gaming world stand up and take notice of the fact that people even played these games competitively, to know about tournaments you had to be pretty hardcore – and even if you knew, you had to be even more hardcore to care about traveling possibly hundreds of miles to play 10-year-old game. That’s the kind of drive that can only come from being a serious competitor, not just a fan. Now, however, there are more eyes on, and more coverage of, the fighting game community than ever before. Prior to 2009, you might get one chance a year to see Daigo, and you had to be there in person. Now you can see him play, or otherwise hear from him and other top players multiple times a month. It’s easy to immerse yourself in the world of competitive fighting games without ever playing a single match.

What’s really the harm in this, though? All this is an inevitable product of more eyes on the community – why would you complain about that?

The Stream Monster in its natural habitat.

While there’s nothing inherently wrong with the ever-increasing number of people taking notice of the fighting game community, it’s important that, in this time of massive expansion, we maintain a firm hold on the values of competitiveness and participation exemplified by Seth’s article. This growth in members of the community who are spectators first, players second represents a missed opportunity to expand the scene in a more important way than more eyes on streams – by turning them into serious, competitive players. This isn’t about encouraging a regressive mentality that selfishly cries “Screw you for taking notice of us, we want to keep to ourselves!”; it’s about not patting ourselves on the back for gaining the attention of a bunch of casual and non-players—some of whom may turn out to be fair-weather friends—while forgetting that it is competitors, not fans that will ensure the long-term strength and growth of our community. As much as I hope it never happens, if we ever experience another fighting game drought like the one we suffered from 2001-2009, it will be the competitors you can count on to stick around.

Armchair fans also have a certain expectation of competitive play – the expectation of being entertained. Someone who primarily spectates, or even plays casually, has a very different perspective on games to a competitor, and when this perspective is widely shared by a group vocal and sizable enough to influence the established scene, we have a problem. As Majestros argues in his Evo 2k11 Retrospective, “[W]e’re seeing an alarming trend of sponsored players getting a little too image-conscious. Everyone seems to agree that Fei Long and Yun are the best characters in SSF4AE. Can you name the top Yun or Fei Long player in America? Why is everyone suddenly backing away from the consensus strongest characters in the game? Is it just to look cool?” The negative attitudes that encourage such tendencies in top players do not, largely, come from those within the competitive scene – they come from people who care more about being entertained than seeing players play at their best.

With that said, while this phenomenon has emerged thanks to the massive scene growth of the past few years, it must be acknowledged that that same growth has also introduced in a ton of new serious competitive players. Those same factors that have made fighting game spectatorship a viable pastime can also be leveraged to turn spectators into real players. Not too long ago, unless you lived in a major fighting game hotspot your chance of facing off against a top national or international player without some serious travel were very low. Now, with sponsorship deals taking care of travel expenses and more tournaments offering serious prize money, far more players have more frequent opportunities to face off against the best. Local sessions and tournaments are much more numerous too, and online play has become at least a semi-legitimate way to hone your skills. As our community grows, so do the opportunities to get out there and experience real competition. It’s the responsibility of the established competitors to make sure that newcomers and armchair warriors alike know that it’s not just observing, but participating in that competition that makes fighting games great.

[The views expressed in this article belong to the author and may not be the views of Shoryuken.com]
[Header via EmpireArcadia]

  • http://twitter.com/BadassMcKill Tareq Saudi

    >The Stream Monster in its natural habitat.

    hahahahahahaha

    Great article though especially that last line 

    • Anonymous

      we all know that’s not even close to what an actual stream monster looks like.  For starters, they’d be much busier typing in the chat than cheering at the monitor, or even watching the match at all.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=769835536 Stuart Hayden

    Need more things like this. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=769835536 Stuart Hayden

    Need more things like this. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=769835536 Stuart Hayden

    Need more things like this. 

  • hyerty

    Man I love the disclaimer at the end. Wonder who put it in.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul-T-Farinelli/1834727112 Paul T. Farinelli

    This is the best front page article I’ve read in some time. I wholeheartedly agree with the notion that the true spirit of fighting games is in competition and personal drive to be the best, not just watching and admiring. Anyone can play fighting games, so why limit yourself to being a mere spectator? GET OUT THERE SON.

    • Anonymous

      I spent most of my childhood watching from the sidelines in hot, sweaty, anger filled arcade rooms as teenagers battled it out on King of Fighters ’94, Super Street Fighter II Turbo, Street Fighter Alpha, and Mortal Kombat. I saw reactions out of people that I’ve never seen anywhere else. Something about the way they carried themselves, their attitudes. I always wanted to be like them one day.

      I’ve spent far too much of my life watching and wishing. I will be at EVO 2K12, and I will make a name for myself. The hype…I can’t control it.

    • http://soundcloud.com/lxartemis Brian Smallwood

      I agree as well, 100%. While I’m new to the FGC and spend a good deal of my time watching my icons duke it out, each fight I watch make me think to myself, “Hey, why don’t I try to get into tournaments and play against the best in real life and not just my head?” Now I’m actively searching for venues and getting in the scene.

    • http://soundcloud.com/lxartemis Brian Smallwood

      I agree as well, 100%. While I’m new to the FGC and spend a good deal of my time watching my icons duke it out, each fight I watch make me think to myself, “Hey, why don’t I try to get into tournaments and play against the best in real life and not just my head?” Now I’m actively searching for venues and getting in the scene.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=501909299 Chaan Niccaples Thomas

      The problem with this is that many people simply aren’t able to “Get out there.” The average age of gamers has dramatically increased since Seth wrote the quote in which this article is based around, and with age comes responsibility. I’d love to go back to being 16 without any real shit to do and being able to practice 8 hours a day, but that simply isn’t possible. Many people have lives which include jobs, spouses, and children. Here’s an interesting idea: find out how many “top” gamers have *careers* (not jobs), are married, or have kids. I assure you that the percentage is very low.

      I guarantee that many of the spectators are those like me who used to be heavy into fighters, but simply can’t involve themselves with what it takes to be “great”.

      • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

        Entering tournaments and playing at an intermediate level is still more fulfilling than just being a spectator.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=501909299 Chaan Niccaples Thomas

          …well *duh*. Were you trying to impart some nugget of wisdom here, or do you just really like to state the obvious?

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=501909299 Chaan Niccaples Thomas

          …well *duh*. Were you trying to impart some nugget of wisdom here, or do you just really like to state the obvious?

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=501909299 Chaan Niccaples Thomas

          …well *duh*. Were you trying to impart some nugget of wisdom here, or do you just really like to state the obvious?

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=501909299 Chaan Niccaples Thomas

          …well *duh*. Were you trying to impart some nugget of wisdom here, or do you just really like to state the obvious?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matt-Spitzli/780372519 Matt Spitzli

        Well said. You can probably get the practice in with a full time job, but if
        you’re dedicated to your career and, moreover, have a wife and kids, it’s
        virtually impossible to play at a top level. The time for practice and travel
        simply isn’t there.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul-T-Farinelli/1834727112 Paul T. Farinelli

    This is the best front page article I’ve read in some time. I wholeheartedly agree with the notion that the true spirit of fighting games is in competition and personal drive to be the best, not just watching and admiring. Anyone can play fighting games, so why limit yourself to being a mere spectator? GET OUT THERE SON.

  • http://twitter.com/Duullaann Beluga Whale

    I guess I’m guilty of this. /shrug

  • Nick Florest

    Excellent read. 

  • Nick Florest

    Excellent read. 

  • Nick Florest

    Excellent read. 

  • Nick Florest

    Excellent read. 

  • Nick Florest

    Excellent read. 

  • Anonymous

    The grassroots element is one of the most important things about our community as a whole. The moment we lose that, then we’re in trouble.

  • Anonymous

    The grassroots element is one of the most important things about our community as a whole. The moment we lose that, then we’re in trouble.

  • Anonymous

    The grassroots element is one of the most important things about our community as a whole. The moment we lose that, then we’re in trouble.

  • Anonymous

    good article. stream monsters should pick up a stick and enter some local tournaments.

  • Anonymous

    good article. stream monsters should pick up a stick and enter some local tournaments.

  • Anonymous

    seems a little pretentious but w/e

  • Jason Conger

    This article is particularly apt. I believe I fit pretty snugly into this demographic, though from a completely different angle- I was a tournament player for approximately 7 or 8 years, and find myself both unable to allot the necessary time and energy required to keep up on games, and also unable to completely shut myself off from the happenings of the fighting game world. A number of my old friends are in similar situations- we cherish the games that led us through adolescence and early adulthood, but either no longer have the drive or find ourselves simply unable to make the commitments required to keep playing at a competitive level. The idea that players are now paid money to compete in fighting games is unreal to most of us, but it is also a great pleasure to see such privileges coming to tried-and-true names. I recall watching the likes of Daigo and Combofiend at Evo back in ’03, when it was all for sheer love of the game. It’s a strange thing, but I guess a common one- just as for every five passive football fans, there is bound to be one true practitioner living out his dreams vicariously. Isn’t that all that a spectator is, really- a vicarious competitor?

  • Hector Garcia

    A COMPETITOR CHOOSES.

    A SPECTATOR OBEYS.

  • Hector Garcia

    A COMPETITOR CHOOSES.

    A SPECTATOR OBEYS.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ari-Francessca-Noir/1133855172 Ari Francessca Noir

      Did they send a competitor to play me?

      Or did they send a spectator…

      A competitor chooses.

      A spectator obeys.

      • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

        Would you kindly put a token in the machine?

      • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

        Would you kindly put a token in the machine?

      • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

        Would you kindly put a token in the machine?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ari-Francessca-Noir/1133855172 Ari Francessca Noir

      Did they send a competitor to play me?

      Or did they send a spectator…

      A competitor chooses.

      A spectator obeys.

  • Anonymous

    A very good article and a worth while read.

  • Anonymous

    A very good article and a worth while read.

  • http://twitter.com/VirginiaRaven Patrick Buckingham

    ITT:  Someone caring too much about how other people spend their free time.

  • http://twitter.com/VirginiaRaven Patrick Buckingham

    ITT:  Someone caring too much about how other people spend their free time.

    • http://www.facebook.com/tonyshine Anthony Maurasse

      When our games get ruined because they’re not exciting enough for you to watch, there’s a problem.  See: The rise of comeback mechanics.

      • http://twitter.com/VirginiaRaven Patrick Buckingham

        Spurious; people watching on stream has nothing to do with why comeback mechanics have been included in recent fighting games.  Way back in 2008, Ono gave an interview with EGM where he said Ultra’s were put in to make the game more exciting for the players playing, not people watching; it’s pretty unrealistic to assume that anyone could have imagined streaming would get to where it is now back when the first comeback mechanic began being implemented.  If you don’t like the way Capcom is making their games, the best way to vote is with your wallet, but of course nobody wants to do that, because they don’t want to be left out of all the ‘fun’ they claim not to be having.  Rabidly blaming other players for Capcom design decisions isn’t the answer, though.

      • Anonymous

        That might be true but don’t take it out on people that just enjoy watching. Take it up with your shitty companies.

    • Moribund Cadaver

      Yes, because people who actually play games never like to watch videos of funny and cool fighting game moments. Such links have no place on a serious bidness site like SRK.

      Also, the article is not about how people spend their free time. I’m not sure you have understood what the subject is.

    • Moribund Cadaver

      Yes, because people who actually play games never like to watch videos of funny and cool fighting game moments. Such links have no place on a serious bidness site like SRK.

      Also, the article is not about how people spend their free time. I’m not sure you have understood what the subject is.

    • Moribund Cadaver

      Yes, because people who actually play games never like to watch videos of funny and cool fighting game moments. Such links have no place on a serious bidness site like SRK.

      Also, the article is not about how people spend their free time. I’m not sure you have understood what the subject is.

    • Moribund Cadaver

      Yes, because people who actually play games never like to watch videos of funny and cool fighting game moments. Such links have no place on a serious bidness site like SRK.

      Also, the article is not about how people spend their free time. I’m not sure you have understood what the subject is.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      You’re being overly defensive. Read the article a second time.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-Hellerstein/753824680 Andrew Hellerstein

    Some places just don’t have a great local scene.  I live in the DMV region and while I could go to places easily if I had transportation, there isn’t a huge community here and the chances of there being a major tournament close by are slim to anorexic. Some guys like Lud and DJ Huoshin have placed well in majors, but you don’t see either of them trashing the brackets consistently because the big tournies are a bit out of the way for us. Our options are kind of limited.

    I’m not disagreeing with the article at all- in fact I’m guilty of perpetuating the issue too.  However, I have my own issues that keeps me from being able to attend events even besides transportation.  I know plenty of people with similar problems.Spectating is just one of the easier ways of supporting the community for us. Doesn’t mean we and other people shouldn’t go out and compete. Hell, we definitely should, But being a stream monster doesn’t hurt either.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-Hellerstein/753824680 Andrew Hellerstein

    Some places just don’t have a great local scene.  I live in the DMV region and while I could go to places easily if I had transportation, there isn’t a huge community here and the chances of there being a major tournament close by are slim to anorexic. Some guys like Lud and DJ Huoshin have placed well in majors, but you don’t see either of them trashing the brackets consistently because the big tournies are a bit out of the way for us. Our options are kind of limited.

    I’m not disagreeing with the article at all- in fact I’m guilty of perpetuating the issue too.  However, I have my own issues that keeps me from being able to attend events even besides transportation.  I know plenty of people with similar problems.Spectating is just one of the easier ways of supporting the community for us. Doesn’t mean we and other people shouldn’t go out and compete. Hell, we definitely should, But being a stream monster doesn’t hurt either.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

    I’m not sure that the pressure to stay away from OP characters like Yun or Phoenix is largely spectator-based. The term “tier whore” didn’t materialize in 2009. There still exists this scrubby mentality that some characters are too good to use even among our top players (*cough* Justin Wong *cough*), and that kind of mentality has been around since before Seth Killian entered his first tournament. It’ll continue to exist regardless of whatever stream monsters are whining about this week.

    I’m admittedly a spectator first at the moment, and it bothers the hell out of me when players don’t pick top tier out of some misplaced sense of honor. So much so that I began to root for Phoenix players at the end of MvC3′s life cycle. If the game is boring to watch at the highest level, then it’s not a good spectator game.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

    I’m not sure that the pressure to stay away from OP characters like Yun or Phoenix is largely spectator-based. The term “tier whore” didn’t materialize in 2009. There still exists this scrubby mentality that some characters are too good to use even among our top players (*cough* Justin Wong *cough*), and that kind of mentality has been around since before Seth Killian entered his first tournament. It’ll continue to exist regardless of whatever stream monsters are whining about this week.

    I’m admittedly a spectator first at the moment, and it bothers the hell out of me when players don’t pick top tier out of some misplaced sense of honor. So much so that I began to root for Phoenix players at the end of MvC3′s life cycle. If the game is boring to watch at the highest level, then it’s not a good spectator game.

    • http://twitter.com/Anawnnemus john doe

      I’ll never get how people don’t see anything wrong with Dark Phoenix.

      How do you NOT see anything wrong with mashing L over and over again and WINNING?

      It boggles my mind how moronic some people can be when it comes to the mindset of “playing to win”

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

        Of course I see something wrong with Phoenix, but I have absolutely no problem with players using her to win. Hate the game, not the player.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

        Of course I see something wrong with Phoenix, but I have absolutely no problem with players using her to win. Hate the game, not the player.

        • http://twitter.com/JakeWasHere1982 Jacob C.

          It’s not cheap if it works.

          • Anonymous

            “Hate the game, not the player?” So why should anyone care about a game that ppl would hate because it has broken tier characters like dark phoenix? That just shows ppl care about a stupid game. I’m actually really hoping UMvC3 stays balanced with patches, and the current level build-up is much better. i think people really wanted vanilla MvC3 to be good, but when they saw top players mashing L with twin dark phoenix in finals, i’m sure the majority felt it showed the game was trash and felt cheated. and these “top” players have no honor. It’s like the Yun, Yang, Fei , C.Viper fest of AE. A game sucks if it has more than 4 fighters but they might as well have only made 4 cuz only 4 are worth it to “play to win”.

          • Anonymous

            “Hate the game, not the player?” So why should anyone care about a game that ppl would hate because it has broken tier characters like dark phoenix? That just shows ppl care about a stupid game. I’m actually really hoping UMvC3 stays balanced with patches, and the current level build-up is much better. i think people really wanted vanilla MvC3 to be good, but when they saw top players mashing L with twin dark phoenix in finals, i’m sure the majority felt it showed the game was trash and felt cheated. and these “top” players have no honor. It’s like the Yun, Yang, Fei , C.Viper fest of AE. A game sucks if it has more than 4 fighters but they might as well have only made 4 cuz only 4 are worth it to “play to win”.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

        Of course I see something wrong with Phoenix, but I have absolutely no problem with players using her to win. Hate the game, not the player.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

        Of course I see something wrong with Phoenix, but I have absolutely no problem with players using her to win. Hate the game, not the player.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

        Of course I see something wrong with Phoenix, but I have absolutely no problem with players using her to win. Hate the game, not the player.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

        Of course I see something wrong with Phoenix, but I have absolutely no problem with players using her to win. Hate the game, not the player.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

        Of course I see something wrong with Phoenix, but I have absolutely no problem with players using her to win. Hate the game, not the player.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

        Of course I see something wrong with Phoenix, but I have absolutely no problem with players using her to win. Hate the game, not the player.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

        Of course I see something wrong with Phoenix, but I have absolutely no problem with players using her to win. Hate the game, not the player.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

        Of course I see something wrong with Phoenix, but I have absolutely no problem with players using her to win. Hate the game, not the player.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

        Of course I see something wrong with Phoenix, but I have absolutely no problem with players using her to win. Hate the game, not the player.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

        Of course I see something wrong with Phoenix, but I have absolutely no problem with players using her to win. Hate the game, not the player.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

        Of course I see something wrong with Phoenix, but I have absolutely no problem with players using her to win. Hate the game, not the player.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

        Of course I see something wrong with Phoenix, but I have absolutely no problem with players using her to win. Hate the game, not the player.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

        Of course I see something wrong with Phoenix, but I have absolutely no problem with players using her to win. Hate the game, not the player.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

        Of course I see something wrong with Phoenix, but I have absolutely no problem with players using her to win. Hate the game, not the player.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

        Of course I see something wrong with Phoenix, but I have absolutely no problem with players using her to win. Hate the game, not the player.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

        Of course I see something wrong with Phoenix, but I have absolutely no problem with players using her to win. Hate the game, not the player.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

        Of course I see something wrong with Phoenix, but I have absolutely no problem with players using her to win. Hate the game, not the player.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=12804098 Andrew Hoss

        Of course I see something wrong with Phoenix, but I have absolutely no problem with players using her to win. Hate the game, not the player.

    • http://twitter.com/Anawnnemus john doe

      I’ll never get how people don’t see anything wrong with Dark Phoenix.

      How do you NOT see anything wrong with mashing L over and over again and WINNING?

      It boggles my mind how moronic some people can be when it comes to the mindset of “playing to win”

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alec-Garcia/100000468453136 Alec Garcia

    Heh, I like how most of the comments are people attempting to explain why they are in the demographic that the article talks about. 

    • http://twitter.com/VirginiaRaven Patrick Buckingham

      It’s pretty easy to get put on the defensive when the picture they post of people who watch streams in a woman cheering at her computer.  Just being real.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Benjamin-Good/100003082526867 Benjamin Good

        What’s wrong with being a woman?

        • Anonymous

          Menstrual cycle mostly…

        • Anonymous

          Menstrual cycle mostly…

        • Anonymous

          Menstrual cycle mostly…

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5FLRQI2X2LU3IHMCG7HEAEFD5I Cat Astrophy

        She’s not cheering. She’s taking a shit.

  • Anonymous

    Hype is what makes the US fighting game scene what it is today. Yes, you must have dedicated competitive players but you must also have enthusiastic spectators. Watch Evo moment #37, then watch community with less enthusiastic spectators like those in Japan, although Gama commentated matches are exceptions. Which community would you prefer?

    Still, a spectator heavy tournament means more emphasis on entertainment and less on competitiveness. Again, look at Japan where players maximize opportunities and minimizes risk. Then, look at America where players maximize hype, although players like Wolfkrone are exceptions. Again, which community would you prefer?

    Anyway, I believe that it’ll do more good for the community if there were more entry points and levels for participation. Whether it’s TO, streamers, commentators, casual players, hardcore players, stream monsters & etc, let people decide for themselves. A good community will survive regardless of negativity.

    P.S. Who were the top Sagats in America for SF4, which was before sponsorship? All I remember was Rufus winning almost everything.

    • http://twitter.com/VirginiaRaven Patrick Buckingham

      Sanford Kelly and LI Joe are the two that spring to my mind.

    • http://twitter.com/VirginiaRaven Patrick Buckingham

      Sanford Kelly and LI Joe are the two that spring to my mind.

  • Anonymous

    Hype is what makes the US fighting game scene what it is today. Yes, you must have dedicated competitive players but you must also have enthusiastic spectators. Watch Evo moment #37, then watch community with less enthusiastic spectators like those in Japan, although Gama commentated matches are exceptions. Which community would you prefer?

    Still, a spectator heavy tournament means more emphasis on entertainment and less on competitiveness. Again, look at Japan where players maximize opportunities and minimizes risk. Then, look at America where players maximize hype, although players like Wolfkrone are exceptions. Again, which community would you prefer?

    Anyway, I believe that it’ll do more good for the community if there were more entry points and levels for participation. Whether it’s TO, streamers, commentators, casual players, hardcore players, stream monsters & etc, let people decide for themselves. A good community will survive regardless of negativity.

    P.S. Who were the top Sagats in America for SF4, which was before sponsorship? All I remember was Rufus winning almost everything.

  • Anonymous

    Hype is what makes the US fighting game scene what it is today. Yes, you must have dedicated competitive players but you must also have enthusiastic spectators. Watch Evo moment #37, then watch community with less enthusiastic spectators like those in Japan, although Gama commentated matches are exceptions. Which community would you prefer?

    Still, a spectator heavy tournament means more emphasis on entertainment and less on competitiveness. Again, look at Japan where players maximize opportunities and minimizes risk. Then, look at America where players maximize hype, although players like Wolfkrone are exceptions. Again, which community would you prefer?

    Anyway, I believe that it’ll do more good for the community if there were more entry points and levels for participation. Whether it’s TO, streamers, commentators, casual players, hardcore players, stream monsters & etc, let people decide for themselves. A good community will survive regardless of negativity.

    P.S. Who were the top Sagats in America for SF4, which was before sponsorship? All I remember was Rufus winning almost everything.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=636264526 Ciarán Lyons

    Great article. Glad to see strong opinion pieces like this on the SRK front page.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/tsdcs TS

    The fact that SRK is so rarely host to these sorts of articles anymore (be it because fewer are submitted or accepted) is an argument in favor of the point this article brings up.

    Bravo.

  • http://www.facebook.com/roland.li1 Roland Li

    Tournaments need more pot monsters.  I don’t want to enter a tournament only to get bodied by Chris G. and then Dieminion.

    • Marcel Núñez Cid

      loser

    • Marcel Núñez Cid

      loser

  • http://www.facebook.com/roland.li1 Roland Li

    Tournaments need more pot monsters.  I don’t want to enter a tournament only to get bodied by Chris G. and then Dieminion.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aren-Stimage-Norwood/1455690478 Aren Stimage-Norwood

    For those of us who live in the middle of nowhere where there’s no scene, online play and streaming is pretty much the only way for us to be a part of or support this scene. Hell I can’t go to tournaments because I don’t have a car, and the closest tournaments to me are like a 2 hour drive.

    • Anonymous

      A 2 hour drive? Seriously? Getting to the closest big tournaments for me involves an hour-long bus, an hour-and-a-half ferry ride, then another 1.5 hours of public transit, including several transfers between buses. I then have to find somewhere to stay the night since tournaments go late, while the ferry home doesn’t, and then go back the next day. And I still manage to haul my ass and my TE over there. Get out of your house and compete.

    • Anonymous

      A 2 hour drive? Seriously? Getting to the closest big tournaments for me involves an hour-long bus, an hour-and-a-half ferry ride, then another 1.5 hours of public transit, including several transfers between buses. I then have to find somewhere to stay the night since tournaments go late, while the ferry home doesn’t, and then go back the next day. And I still manage to haul my ass and my TE over there. Get out of your house and compete.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aren-Stimage-Norwood/1455690478 Aren Stimage-Norwood

        May I also add good sir that that costs money that I don’t have, due to having to pay for my college, among other things.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aren-Stimage-Norwood/1455690478 Aren Stimage-Norwood

        May I also add good sir that that costs money that I don’t have, due to having to pay for my college, among other things.

    • Anonymous

      A 2 hour drive? Seriously? Getting to the closest big tournaments for me involves an hour-long bus, an hour-and-a-half ferry ride, then another 1.5 hours of public transit, including several transfers between buses. I then have to find somewhere to stay the night since tournaments go late, while the ferry home doesn’t, and then go back the next day. And I still manage to haul my ass and my TE over there. Get out of your house and compete.

    • Anonymous

      A 2 hour drive? Seriously? Getting to the closest big tournaments for me involves an hour-long bus, an hour-and-a-half ferry ride, then another 1.5 hours of public transit, including several transfers between buses. I then have to find somewhere to stay the night since tournaments go late, while the ferry home doesn’t, and then go back the next day. And I still manage to haul my ass and my TE over there. Get out of your house and compete.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Yahkim-Siffel/100001370016186 Yahkim Siffel

    I have never been to a tournament, not because I don’t want to, but rather because I have never really had the chance. I wanted to go to this past EVO, but that fell apart; I wanted to go to Seasons Beatings, but once again I was unable to make it there; and I would most definitely compete in my local scene, If there was one.

    The difficulty faced by most us in different parts of the U.S is that we don’t really have any scene to jump into, and just start competing, or we are unable to make it to the much larger events held nationally;  a lot of us may seem like “Armchair Street Fighters”, but is mainly due to less than ideal circumstances preventing us from being much more.

    Now, I could try to start up a scene where I live, but as I am sure those doing it already know, it takes time, energy, and most of all money I just don’t have right now. In California, you have local arcades which help build a community naturally , and those haven’t existed in too many places outside of Norcal and Socal in years. Hence, I and many others would have to spend a lot more time to do what the East, West, and (some places) in the South coasts are able to do (at the very least slightly) easier than rest of us in forgotten regions, who would have to start from the ground floor.

    So, tuning in to watch a stream, or playing online is all I really can do; yeah it’s quasi scrubby, but it is better then nothing.I am not trying to make excuses, but rather give some insight into the difficulty that acts as a barrier to some of us, and our full fledged participation.

    • Moribund Cadaver

      The flipside of this subject is that you shouldn’t feel devalued by playing online. That, in itself, is a negative consequence of the “old guard”. A lot of heavily insecure people are trying to devalue the online revolution in these games in order to preserve their own sense of superiority and the big-fish-in-a-small-pond glory of arcade days past.

      The truth behind the hate cloud surrounding online play, is that most fighting games are not so changed in their online play as to be competitively broken or valueless. Online competition in most fighting games (most) is 95% the same as offline.

      So don’t feel bad about only being able to play online. It’s not scrubby. That’s a modern myth that needs to be killed dead. Online play is part of what’s saved fighting games from obscurity, even if they, and the FGC, have had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

    • Moribund Cadaver

      The flipside of this subject is that you shouldn’t feel devalued by playing online. That, in itself, is a negative consequence of the “old guard”. A lot of heavily insecure people are trying to devalue the online revolution in these games in order to preserve their own sense of superiority and the big-fish-in-a-small-pond glory of arcade days past.

      The truth behind the hate cloud surrounding online play, is that most fighting games are not so changed in their online play as to be competitively broken or valueless. Online competition in most fighting games (most) is 95% the same as offline.

      So don’t feel bad about only being able to play online. It’s not scrubby. That’s a modern myth that needs to be killed dead. Online play is part of what’s saved fighting games from obscurity, even if they, and the FGC, have had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

    • Moribund Cadaver

      The flipside of this subject is that you shouldn’t feel devalued by playing online. That, in itself, is a negative consequence of the “old guard”. A lot of heavily insecure people are trying to devalue the online revolution in these games in order to preserve their own sense of superiority and the big-fish-in-a-small-pond glory of arcade days past.

      The truth behind the hate cloud surrounding online play, is that most fighting games are not so changed in their online play as to be competitively broken or valueless. Online competition in most fighting games (most) is 95% the same as offline.

      So don’t feel bad about only being able to play online. It’s not scrubby. That’s a modern myth that needs to be killed dead. Online play is part of what’s saved fighting games from obscurity, even if they, and the FGC, have had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

      • http://twitter.com/fightngamezonln thec0re3

        I agree online play should never be devalued. It should get more praise for having helped to revive what was thought by many to be a dead scene so it deserves props in that regard.

        I can agree that online play has not quite reached the accuracy that the offline scene provides but as the technology continues to grow this will no longer be the argument.

        When you talk about keeping a scene alive, online play is always the main catalyst in its survival. When you here about so many people still enjoying Super Street Fighter Turbo or people finding matches for Vampire Savior, it definitely warms the heart to know their people still around who want to play should you ever think of taking those games back up. It’s why I have dedicated some of my time to finding fighting games online because it brings people back to what they loved and welcomes you to a community of people who still love it too.

        Online play has this potential of bringing those together who would have sat idly by playing against the computer for an eternity. It’s giving me a reason to come back where before I no longer had the will to play. 

        We are all not aware of this wonderful institution called the FGC and online play is definitely one of first introductions to what its all about so in no way should it be frowned upon because a few cannot enjoy a perfect online experience.

      • Maximumlimits

        This is not the case. The disdain for online play has little to do with old players hating the new online generation and more to do with the fact that online play sucks. Random lag spikes, input delay, and even dropped inputs occur. It’s not a good environment to practice combos, master matchups, or improve your skill; at best, you can get a feel for matchups, experiment with different moves in different situations, and see if you can perform your combos in 0.4-0.8 sec button lag. Your reaction time is reduced (which lead to lag tactics), your combos are limited to basic and intermediate stuff (no one-frames links), and the competition pales in comparison to real life tournament players. how is that 95% the same as offline? Even if it was, why settle for 95% when you can have 100%? 

        That “big-fish-in-small-pond” analogy you used is more present in online play than it’s ever been offline. It’s easier for online players to beat on noobs and scrubs while avoiding more challenging competition by kicking or blocking them. That arcade-generation mindset died alongside the arcades a decade ago.

        If you’re gonna stick to online play, then that’s on you, but don’t try to justify it by saying it’s almost the same as offline play, because almost only counts in horseshoes. Like low-tier, it has some good points, but in the end you’re better off going with something more viable.

        • Anonymous

          You are exactly what has been described as the insecure person that tries to devalue the online experience. Online will never be as good as offline. Its the laws of physics that will never be changed. That is not license for hyperbole and acting like you are playing two different games.

          I see plenty of players consistently hit one frame links online. There are youtube vids of some of the top players in the world playing online with damn near unsustainable PP numbers which shows they are quite capable of executing in less than perfect conditions. When they play offline its that much easier with better reaction times and combos being easier to perform.

          So stop trying to be the guy who has never done anything in a tournament yet is always the first to shit on online. The actual good players that have proven themselves have shown they can excel both online and offline.

        • Anonymous

          You are exactly what has been described as the insecure person that tries to devalue the online experience. Online will never be as good as offline. Its the laws of physics that will never be changed. That is not license for hyperbole and acting like you are playing two different games.

          I see plenty of players consistently hit one frame links online. There are youtube vids of some of the top players in the world playing online with damn near unsustainable PP numbers which shows they are quite capable of executing in less than perfect conditions. When they play offline its that much easier with better reaction times and combos being easier to perform.

          So stop trying to be the guy who has never done anything in a tournament yet is always the first to shit on online. The actual good players that have proven themselves have shown they can excel both online and offline.

        • Anonymous

          You are exactly what has been described as the insecure person that tries to devalue the online experience. Online will never be as good as offline. Its the laws of physics that will never be changed. That is not license for hyperbole and acting like you are playing two different games.

          I see plenty of players consistently hit one frame links online. There are youtube vids of some of the top players in the world playing online with damn near unsustainable PP numbers which shows they are quite capable of executing in less than perfect conditions. When they play offline its that much easier with better reaction times and combos being easier to perform.

          So stop trying to be the guy who has never done anything in a tournament yet is always the first to shit on online. The actual good players that have proven themselves have shown they can excel both online and offline.

          • Maximumlimits

            Insecure? Not at all. It seems more insecure to take shots at the  offline scene while favoring online over offline play, despite knowing its flaws.

             While I get that it’s not impossible to do 1-frame links online, it is  more difficult, especially when your inputs get dropped. Stuff like lag spikes and various button lag are contingent deterrents that don’t exist offline, thus affecting the matchups and changing the game. It may not be a big difference, especially to players who don’t use hard links, advanced combos or high-execution based characters, but that doesn’t mean the deterrents aren’t there.
            You think being a guy who goes to tournaments but doesn’t place high is worse than being a guy who spends countless hours grinding it out in ranked match to reach the top of the leaderboards? Sounds like you’re downplaying people that come out and try to compete against top players. We should encourage more people to get out and support the FG scene if they can, not tell them it’s cool to stay at home and play on XBL/PSN instead because it’s almost the same thing. People do that already.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matt-Spitzli/780372519 Matt Spitzli

            One thing I’ve noticed, also, is that people who have average or sub-par broadband tend to hate online more than people with pretty good connections.  That only makes sense.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matt-Spitzli/780372519 Matt Spitzli

            One thing I’ve noticed, also, is that people who have average or sub-par broadband tend to hate online more than people with pretty good connections.  That only makes sense.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matt-Spitzli/780372519 Matt Spitzli

            One thing I’ve noticed, also, is that people who have average or sub-par broadband tend to hate online more than people with pretty good connections.  That only makes sense.

          • Taylor Hall

            Your perpetuating a FGC elitism myth. That people who play online don’t go to their local tournaments. Here on Maui we do, and we’re on a damn island with a population of less than 100,000 and we still get around 30 people, but the OP’s point and rebuff to the article is that a lot of people don’t get that opportunity.

            Making fun of stream monsters is like making fun of a person in a wheelchair – of course they’d like to walk on their own, but they can’t so why are you making fun of their chair as well?

            No one said online was superior either, you’re just making up a false argument to coincide with their original fact – that they are equal with their own difficulties. Online has lag, and offline is using brand new equipment from what your used to (tv, environment, chair, volume, stick, etc.) 

            I do fine in both enviornments and, like a lot of stream monsters, once my plans to attend the big tourneys comes together, you will see us at the events. After all, at NEC most of the SB guys are stream monsters and vice versa, otherwise every tournament would be EVO sized and that’s clearly a pipe dream.

          • Taylor Hall

            Your perpetuating a FGC elitism myth. That people who play online don’t go to their local tournaments. Here on Maui we do, and we’re on a damn island with a population of less than 100,000 and we still get around 30 people, but the OP’s point and rebuff to the article is that a lot of people don’t get that opportunity.

            Making fun of stream monsters is like making fun of a person in a wheelchair – of course they’d like to walk on their own, but they can’t so why are you making fun of their chair as well?

            No one said online was superior either, you’re just making up a false argument to coincide with their original fact – that they are equal with their own difficulties. Online has lag, and offline is using brand new equipment from what your used to (tv, environment, chair, volume, stick, etc.) 

            I do fine in both enviornments and, like a lot of stream monsters, once my plans to attend the big tourneys comes together, you will see us at the events. After all, at NEC most of the SB guys are stream monsters and vice versa, otherwise every tournament would be EVO sized and that’s clearly a pipe dream.

          • Taylor Hall

            Your perpetuating a FGC elitism myth. That people who play online don’t go to their local tournaments. Here on Maui we do, and we’re on a damn island with a population of less than 100,000 and we still get around 30 people, but the OP’s point and rebuff to the article is that a lot of people don’t get that opportunity.

            Making fun of stream monsters is like making fun of a person in a wheelchair – of course they’d like to walk on their own, but they can’t so why are you making fun of their chair as well?

            No one said online was superior either, you’re just making up a false argument to coincide with their original fact – that they are equal with their own difficulties. Online has lag, and offline is using brand new equipment from what your used to (tv, environment, chair, volume, stick, etc.) 

            I do fine in both enviornments and, like a lot of stream monsters, once my plans to attend the big tourneys comes together, you will see us at the events. After all, at NEC most of the SB guys are stream monsters and vice versa, otherwise every tournament would be EVO sized and that’s clearly a pipe dream.

          • Taylor Hall

            Your perpetuating a FGC elitism myth. That people who play online don’t go to their local tournaments. Here on Maui we do, and we’re on a damn island with a population of less than 100,000 and we still get around 30 people, but the OP’s point and rebuff to the article is that a lot of people don’t get that opportunity.

            Making fun of stream monsters is like making fun of a person in a wheelchair – of course they’d like to walk on their own, but they can’t so why are you making fun of their chair as well?

            No one said online was superior either, you’re just making up a false argument to coincide with their original fact – that they are equal with their own difficulties. Online has lag, and offline is using brand new equipment from what your used to (tv, environment, chair, volume, stick, etc.) 

            I do fine in both enviornments and, like a lot of stream monsters, once my plans to attend the big tourneys comes together, you will see us at the events. After all, at NEC most of the SB guys are stream monsters and vice versa, otherwise every tournament would be EVO sized and that’s clearly a pipe dream.

          • Taylor Hall

            Your perpetuating a FGC elitism myth. That people who play online don’t go to their local tournaments. Here on Maui we do, and we’re on a damn island with a population of less than 100,000 and we still get around 30 people, but the OP’s point and rebuff to the article is that a lot of people don’t get that opportunity.

            Making fun of stream monsters is like making fun of a person in a wheelchair – of course they’d like to walk on their own, but they can’t so why are you making fun of their chair as well?

            No one said online was superior either, you’re just making up a false argument to coincide with their original fact – that they are equal with their own difficulties. Online has lag, and offline is using brand new equipment from what your used to (tv, environment, chair, volume, stick, etc.) 

            I do fine in both enviornments and, like a lot of stream monsters, once my plans to attend the big tourneys comes together, you will see us at the events. After all, at NEC most of the SB guys are stream monsters and vice versa, otherwise every tournament would be EVO sized and that’s clearly a pipe dream.

          • Taylor Hall

            Your perpetuating a FGC elitism myth. That people who play online don’t go to their local tournaments. Here on Maui we do, and we’re on a damn island with a population of less than 100,000 and we still get around 30 people, but the OP’s point and rebuff to the article is that a lot of people don’t get that opportunity.

            Making fun of stream monsters is like making fun of a person in a wheelchair – of course they’d like to walk on their own, but they can’t so why are you making fun of their chair as well?

            No one said online was superior either, you’re just making up a false argument to coincide with their original fact – that they are equal with their own difficulties. Online has lag, and offline is using brand new equipment from what your used to (tv, environment, chair, volume, stick, etc.) 

            I do fine in both enviornments and, like a lot of stream monsters, once my plans to attend the big tourneys comes together, you will see us at the events. After all, at NEC most of the SB guys are stream monsters and vice versa, otherwise every tournament would be EVO sized and that’s clearly a pipe dream.

          • Taylor Hall

            Your perpetuating a FGC elitism myth. That people who play online don’t go to their local tournaments. Here on Maui we do, and we’re on a damn island with a population of less than 100,000 and we still get around 30 people, but the OP’s point and rebuff to the article is that a lot of people don’t get that opportunity.

            Making fun of stream monsters is like making fun of a person in a wheelchair – of course they’d like to walk on their own, but they can’t so why are you making fun of their chair as well?

            No one said online was superior either, you’re just making up a false argument to coincide with their original fact – that they are equal with their own difficulties. Online has lag, and offline is using brand new equipment from what your used to (tv, environment, chair, volume, stick, etc.) 

            I do fine in both enviornments and, like a lot of stream monsters, once my plans to attend the big tourneys comes together, you will see us at the events. After all, at NEC most of the SB guys are stream monsters and vice versa, otherwise every tournament would be EVO sized and that’s clearly a pipe dream.

          • Taylor Hall

            Your perpetuating a FGC elitism myth. That people who play online don’t go to their local tournaments. Here on Maui we do, and we’re on a damn island with a population of less than 100,000 and we still get around 30 people, but the OP’s point and rebuff to the article is that a lot of people don’t get that opportunity.

            Making fun of stream monsters is like making fun of a person in a wheelchair – of course they’d like to walk on their own, but they can’t so why are you making fun of their chair as well?

            No one said online was superior either, you’re just making up a false argument to coincide with their original fact – that they are equal with their own difficulties. Online has lag, and offline is using brand new equipment from what your used to (tv, environment, chair, volume, stick, etc.) 

            I do fine in both enviornments and, like a lot of stream monsters, once my plans to attend the big tourneys comes together, you will see us at the events. After all, at NEC most of the SB guys are stream monsters and vice versa, otherwise every tournament would be EVO sized and that’s clearly a pipe dream.

          • Taylor Hall

            Your perpetuating a FGC elitism myth. That people who play online don’t go to their local tournaments. Here on Maui we do, and we’re on a damn island with a population of less than 100,000 and we still get around 30 people, but the OP’s point and rebuff to the article is that a lot of people don’t get that opportunity.

            Making fun of stream monsters is like making fun of a person in a wheelchair – of course they’d like to walk on their own, but they can’t so why are you making fun of their chair as well?

            No one said online was superior either, you’re just making up a false argument to coincide with their original fact – that they are equal with their own difficulties. Online has lag, and offline is using brand new equipment from what your used to (tv, environment, chair, volume, stick, etc.) 

            I do fine in both enviornments and, like a lot of stream monsters, once my plans to attend the big tourneys comes together, you will see us at the events. After all, at NEC most of the SB guys are stream monsters and vice versa, otherwise every tournament would be EVO sized and that’s clearly a pipe dream.

          • Taylor Hall

            Your perpetuating a FGC elitism myth. That people who play online don’t go to their local tournaments. Here on Maui we do, and we’re on a damn island with a population of less than 100,000 and we still get around 30 people, but the OP’s point and rebuff to the article is that a lot of people don’t get that opportunity.

            Making fun of stream monsters is like making fun of a person in a wheelchair – of course they’d like to walk on their own, but they can’t so why are you making fun of their chair as well?

            No one said online was superior either, you’re just making up a false argument to coincide with their original fact – that they are equal with their own difficulties. Online has lag, and offline is using brand new equipment from what your used to (tv, environment, chair, volume, stick, etc.) 

            I do fine in both enviornments and, like a lot of stream monsters, once my plans to attend the big tourneys comes together, you will see us at the events. After all, at NEC most of the SB guys are stream monsters and vice versa, otherwise every tournament would be EVO sized and that’s clearly a pipe dream.

          • Maximumlimits

            Insecure? Not at all. It seems more insecure to take shots at the  offline scene while favoring online over offline play, despite knowing its flaws.

             While I get that it’s not impossible to do 1-frame links online, it is  more difficult, especially when your inputs get dropped. Stuff like lag spikes and various button lag are contingent deterrents that don’t exist offline, thus affecting the matchups and changing the game. It may not be a big difference, especially to players who don’t use hard links, advanced combos or high-execution based characters, but that doesn’t mean the deterrents aren’t there.
            You think being a guy who goes to tournaments but doesn’t place high is worse than being a guy who spends countless hours grinding it out in ranked match to reach the top of the leaderboards? Sounds like you’re downplaying people that come out and try to compete against top players. We should encourage more people to get out and support the FG scene if they can, not tell them it’s cool to stay at home and play on XBL/PSN instead because it’s almost the same thing. People do that already.

      • Maximumlimits

        This is not the case. The disdain for online play has little to do with old players hating the new online generation and more to do with the fact that online play sucks. Random lag spikes, input delay, and even dropped inputs occur. It’s not a good environment to practice combos, master matchups, or improve your skill; at best, you can get a feel for matchups, experiment with different moves in different situations, and see if you can perform your combos in 0.4-0.8 sec button lag. Your reaction time is reduced (which lead to lag tactics), your combos are limited to basic and intermediate stuff (no one-frames links), and the competition pales in comparison to real life tournament players. how is that 95% the same as offline? Even if it was, why settle for 95% when you can have 100%? 

        That “big-fish-in-small-pond” analogy you used is more present in online play than it’s ever been offline. It’s easier for online players to beat on noobs and scrubs while avoiding more challenging competition by kicking or blocking them. That arcade-generation mindset died alongside the arcades a decade ago.

        If you’re gonna stick to online play, then that’s on you, but don’t try to justify it by saying it’s almost the same as offline play, because almost only counts in horseshoes. Like low-tier, it has some good points, but in the end you’re better off going with something more viable.

      • Maximumlimits

        This is not the case. The disdain for online play has little to do with old players hating the new online generation and more to do with the fact that online play sucks. Random lag spikes, input delay, and even dropped inputs occur. It’s not a good environment to practice combos, master matchups, or improve your skill; at best, you can get a feel for matchups, experiment with different moves in different situations, and see if you can perform your combos in 0.4-0.8 sec button lag. Your reaction time is reduced (which lead to lag tactics), your combos are limited to basic and intermediate stuff (no one-frames links), and the competition pales in comparison to real life tournament players. how is that 95% the same as offline? Even if it was, why settle for 95% when you can have 100%? 

        That “big-fish-in-small-pond” analogy you used is more present in online play than it’s ever been offline. It’s easier for online players to beat on noobs and scrubs while avoiding more challenging competition by kicking or blocking them. That arcade-generation mindset died alongside the arcades a decade ago.

        If you’re gonna stick to online play, then that’s on you, but don’t try to justify it by saying it’s almost the same as offline play, because almost only counts in horseshoes. Like low-tier, it has some good points, but in the end you’re better off going with something more viable.

      • Maximumlimits

        This is not the case. The disdain for online play has little to do with old players hating the new online generation and more to do with the fact that online play sucks. Random lag spikes, input delay, and even dropped inputs occur. It’s not a good environment to practice combos, master matchups, or improve your skill; at best, you can get a feel for matchups, experiment with different moves in different situations, and see if you can perform your combos in 0.4-0.8 sec button lag. Your reaction time is reduced (which lead to lag tactics), your combos are limited to basic and intermediate stuff (no one-frames links), and the competition pales in comparison to real life tournament players. how is that 95% the same as offline? Even if it was, why settle for 95% when you can have 100%? 

        That “big-fish-in-small-pond” analogy you used is more present in online play than it’s ever been offline. It’s easier for online players to beat on noobs and scrubs while avoiding more challenging competition by kicking or blocking them. That arcade-generation mindset died alongside the arcades a decade ago.

        If you’re gonna stick to online play, then that’s on you, but don’t try to justify it by saying it’s almost the same as offline play, because almost only counts in horseshoes. Like low-tier, it has some good points, but in the end you’re better off going with something more viable.

      • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

        When you’ve gotten to a certain skill level in almost any fighter, online feels grossly inferior to offline, though that skill level rises a lot with things like GGPO. There’s no way around this inferiority. However, online is a fine medium for “most” players, but it is not even close to a substitute, only a compromise.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Yahkim-Siffel/100001370016186 Yahkim Siffel

        I was not trying to say that playing online is scrubby (which is why I said it was “quasi” scrubby), but rather that the combination of only watching streams and playing online feeds into the concept of an armchair street fighter; a person who does not leave his own comfort zone to actively participate in the community.

        So, I do not feel online is scrubby, in fact, were it not for the internet the fighting game resurgence would not have made it to this level; I mean let’s face it, calling the few Arcades left the last of a dying breed is generous, and if it were entirely dependent on that it would never be this large.

        However, though I do feel that a lot of people are not participating, because they aren’t able, It has to be acknowledge that the bread and butter of this community is face to face gameplay. The events that bring people from all over together in one room, add a great deal of charm to the scene, so I do understand the importance of maintaining the type of community that has people willing to step out, and compete.

        That said, I do agree with you that the idea of playing online as scrubby or noobish is one that needs to be killed dead; perhaps next time I will choose my words better, because I did not intend to insinuate, or feed into that stereotype

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Yahkim-Siffel/100001370016186 Yahkim Siffel

        I was not trying to say that playing online is scrubby (which is why I said it was “quasi” scrubby), but rather that the combination of only watching streams and playing online feeds into the concept of an armchair street fighter; a person who does not leave his own comfort zone to actively participate in the community.

        So, I do not feel online is scrubby, in fact, were it not for the internet the fighting game resurgence would not have made it to this level; I mean let’s face it, calling the few Arcades left the last of a dying breed is generous, and if it were entirely dependent on that it would never be this large.

        However, though I do feel that a lot of people are not participating, because they aren’t able, It has to be acknowledge that the bread and butter of this community is face to face gameplay. The events that bring people from all over together in one room, add a great deal of charm to the scene, so I do understand the importance of maintaining the type of community that has people willing to step out, and compete.

        That said, I do agree with you that the idea of playing online as scrubby or noobish is one that needs to be killed dead; perhaps next time I will choose my words better, because I did not intend to insinuate, or feed into that stereotype

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Yahkim-Siffel/100001370016186 Yahkim Siffel

        I was not trying to say that playing online is scrubby (which is why I said it was “quasi” scrubby), but rather that the combination of only watching streams and playing online feeds into the concept of an armchair street fighter; a person who does not leave his own comfort zone to actively participate in the community.

        So, I do not feel online is scrubby, in fact, were it not for the internet the fighting game resurgence would not have made it to this level; I mean let’s face it, calling the few Arcades left the last of a dying breed is generous, and if it were entirely dependent on that it would never be this large.

        However, though I do feel that a lot of people are not participating, because they aren’t able, It has to be acknowledge that the bread and butter of this community is face to face gameplay. The events that bring people from all over together in one room, add a great deal of charm to the scene, so I do understand the importance of maintaining the type of community that has people willing to step out, and compete.

        That said, I do agree with you that the idea of playing online as scrubby or noobish is one that needs to be killed dead; perhaps next time I will choose my words better, because I did not intend to insinuate, or feed into that stereotype

    • Moribund Cadaver

      The flipside of this subject is that you shouldn’t feel devalued by playing online. That, in itself, is a negative consequence of the “old guard”. A lot of heavily insecure people are trying to devalue the online revolution in these games in order to preserve their own sense of superiority and the big-fish-in-a-small-pond glory of arcade days past.

      The truth behind the hate cloud surrounding online play, is that most fighting games are not so changed in their online play as to be competitively broken or valueless. Online competition in most fighting games (most) is 95% the same as offline.

      So don’t feel bad about only being able to play online. It’s not scrubby. That’s a modern myth that needs to be killed dead. Online play is part of what’s saved fighting games from obscurity, even if they, and the FGC, have had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

  • http://twitter.com/athrex84 Jeremy Runyan

    This article is based on a flawed premise.  Fighting games and competitive sports in general are not so different.  To be the best at them you have to have the talent and the practice to be the best.  Its not realistic to assume everyone has the time and dedication to win a tournament.  Top players try to play this down, but they practice an insane and unrealistic amount of time to get to the level they are at.  Now they may “only practice a couple hours” but they are playing off a basics level built from where at some point they ate, drank, and slept SF or Marvel.  It takes an insane amount of dedication to reach the top, but less so work to stay there once you arrive.  No disrespect to Justin, Daigo, Valle, Combofiend, and more but they also have the talent to stay at the top once they put in the work.  Reaction times and intelligence are something you are born with.  Your natural abilities allow you to apply your practice in a game setting.

    Many people realize that unless they change their life around fighting games they will always be a pot monster.  Even then you may just not be talented enough.  This is the reality of the world.  The idea that anyone could be anything is bullshit.  So its easier to sit back, have fun, and spam Floe faces in stream chat.

    • Moribund Cadaver

      I think you’re overstating the consequences of the similarity between fighting games and professional sports. The point of the article and the philosophy behind it, is not that fighting games are inherently different from any other sports-like competition. In every field, you will always have people who are more interested in observing than participating, for whatever motivation or circumstance. That is a given.

      However, fighting games are different from the most common, popular spectator sports, in that the natural ratio of players-to-spectators is, or can be, very dissimilar. In pro spectator sports, it’s a situation where 99% watch and 1% participate. It’s very lopsided, and it possibly leads to a lot of voyeurism. It creates the armchair quarterback scenario, where people have the mentality that almost nobody can ever actually play the game being viewed, so most people must live vicariously.

      It’s misleading to compare yourself to the top percentile of fighting game players. The key distinction between the NFL and Street Fighter is that there’s basically no middle ground between the top star players, and people who only watch or just throw a pigskin around a little bit at a park, at most. In fighting games (or Starcraft, or competitive first person shooters, etc) there’s a huge median group of people may not be the best in the world, but are not observers or the most casual players. Many more people are involved with actually doing, rather than watching, in games like these.

      And it’s not that this is anything new. Computer games did not achieve this for the first time. Other games that don’t have strict entry requirements of athleticism, from chess to poker, have many more people who play regularly, and engage in local competition, even casual leagues, than merely watch others play. Physical sports like bowling are also a great example of this – it’s more reasonable for a wider variety of people to be able to bowl, so more do.

      I feel that the author of this article is trying to get at a finer point; that the explosion of fighting game visibility combined with the technology of the internet, and the current culture of online stream and youtube voyeur audiences, may be obscuring the actual nature of the fighting game community. It’s worth considering the possibility that people will come in, and jump to conclusions that this is another sport like pro football, baseball, or motorsport, where most only watch while a tiny elite play. People responding negatively to the article also seem to be overlooking that it says there’s nothing inherently WRONG with spectating. That is not the point. Folks seem to feel a bit threatened by an apparent slight directed at “stream monsters”. Don’t take that photo of the chick at her PC seriously.

  • Isaac Hernandez

    great article, thats why I quitted League of Legends

  • Isaac Hernandez

    great article, thats why I quitted League of Legends

  • Isaac Hernandez

    great article, thats why I quitted League of Legends

  • Isaac Hernandez

    great article, thats why I quitted League of Legends

  • Isaac Hernandez

    I agree with Jeremy Runyan

  • Isaac Hernandez

    I agree with Jeremy Runyan

  • http://twitter.com/Inphinite K. Powell

    Gotta watch out for the elitist attitude. Perfect example of it in another opinion piece on the front page… This piece could be taken as an attempt to really that kind of mindset in the “old guard”.  #1 Problem with any gaming community. “This is the way we used to do it and this is the way it needs to stay…” People need to realize that change is a constant. Things don’t stay the same forever. It’s best to try to incorporate the old into the new and not trying to turn the new into the old.

    • http://twitter.com/OhVorkosigan Josh Wickersham

      But if the old is better, why should we be forced to change so drastically?

    • Moribund Cadaver

      There’s nothing elitist in the article and it doesn’t attempt to claim new = bad. Hell, it literally places the stereotypical “old guard bitching about new kids” line in quotation marks to clarify that’s not the point.

      The article also doesn’t say the new trend of spectating is inherently bad. The main purpose is a reminder about what makes competitive scenes like fighting games different from other spectator sports, regardless of whether or not there are spectators in whatever number.

    • Moribund Cadaver

      There’s nothing elitist in the article and it doesn’t attempt to claim new = bad. Hell, it literally places the stereotypical “old guard bitching about new kids” line in quotation marks to clarify that’s not the point.

      The article also doesn’t say the new trend of spectating is inherently bad. The main purpose is a reminder about what makes competitive scenes like fighting games different from other spectator sports, regardless of whether or not there are spectators in whatever number.

    • Moribund Cadaver

      There’s nothing elitist in the article and it doesn’t attempt to claim new = bad. Hell, it literally places the stereotypical “old guard bitching about new kids” line in quotation marks to clarify that’s not the point.

      The article also doesn’t say the new trend of spectating is inherently bad. The main purpose is a reminder about what makes competitive scenes like fighting games different from other spectator sports, regardless of whether or not there are spectators in whatever number.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Read the article again. You’re projecting.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Read the article again. You’re projecting.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Read the article again. You’re projecting.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Read the article again. You’re projecting.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Read the article again. You’re projecting.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Read the article again. You’re projecting.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Read the article again. You’re projecting.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CGGBTSDCNDNVF36EMANXOENY7A Christopher Price

      I don’t think you understand what “elitist” means. Also, pretty much none of the things you said are relevant to any of the content of the article. Maybe you should read it again.

  • http://twitter.com/fightngamezonln thec0re3

    Nice article. The idea of maintaining a scene that keep its integrity by continuing to stay in the tradition of encouraging competitive play is a noble one but if this community is going in the direction of growth then I believe the idealism that all major tournaments hold dear will soon be changed in a few years.

    If this ever becomes a scene where millions come to attend, there will be no choice but to limit the entrants. Major tournaments will consist of top players around the country possibly coming from a rise in the local scene. I can see points to EVO really being a serious deal for those who want to play competitively in the tournaments as the number of participation rises ever year. What is the magic number going to be for pools? Its something I know many tournament organizers pontificate as they watch their entries increase from year to year.

    I see nothing wrong with it becoming more of a spectator sport. As some have argued, many of us no longer have the time to dedicate hours upon hours of practice. Although the idea of improving my skills has always been a long time goal for me, I have to be realistic about my responsibilities and where I am in life.  Watching Big 2 yesterday made me realize just how far ahead of the curve these guys really are.  Although I did here someone blurt out that they’ve “had the game for fifteen days”, I still tend to think their ability and dedication to pick up the games mechanics still best what I have to offer at this point.

    Yesterday I was torn between watching this tournament for UMVSC3 or grinding it out more in training mode. I chose the latter. It was more about the entertainment value I was going to receive as well as the possible strategies and mix ups I would witness. It just made more sense to me at that moment and I believe it makes sense to many of us as we start to get older or have less time to dedicate to practicing and competing.

    I may have to many thoughts of grandeur when I think about the future of this community but I don’t think there that far off.  It started in Arcades were some one was waiting in the wings to beat the best. I believe even with the advent of streams this holds true. Some of those stream monsters are waiting patiently to get there turn and their going to do whatever it takes to make sure they reach a Justin or Daigo at Evo. It may not be as difficult of a goal to reach now,but in the near future it just might be.

  • http://twitter.com/fightngamezonln thec0re3

    Nice article. The idea of maintaining a scene that keep its integrity by continuing to stay in the tradition of encouraging competitive play is a noble one but if this community is going in the direction of growth then I believe the idealism that all major tournaments hold dear will soon be changed in a few years.

    If this ever becomes a scene where millions come to attend, there will be no choice but to limit the entrants. Major tournaments will consist of top players around the country possibly coming from a rise in the local scene. I can see points to EVO really being a serious deal for those who want to play competitively in the tournaments as the number of participation rises ever year. What is the magic number going to be for pools? Its something I know many tournament organizers pontificate as they watch their entries increase from year to year.

    I see nothing wrong with it becoming more of a spectator sport. As some have argued, many of us no longer have the time to dedicate hours upon hours of practice. Although the idea of improving my skills has always been a long time goal for me, I have to be realistic about my responsibilities and where I am in life.  Watching Big 2 yesterday made me realize just how far ahead of the curve these guys really are.  Although I did here someone blurt out that they’ve “had the game for fifteen days”, I still tend to think their ability and dedication to pick up the games mechanics still best what I have to offer at this point.

    Yesterday I was torn between watching this tournament for UMVSC3 or grinding it out more in training mode. I chose the latter. It was more about the entertainment value I was going to receive as well as the possible strategies and mix ups I would witness. It just made more sense to me at that moment and I believe it makes sense to many of us as we start to get older or have less time to dedicate to practicing and competing.

    I may have to many thoughts of grandeur when I think about the future of this community but I don’t think there that far off.  It started in Arcades were some one was waiting in the wings to beat the best. I believe even with the advent of streams this holds true. Some of those stream monsters are waiting patiently to get there turn and their going to do whatever it takes to make sure they reach a Justin or Daigo at Evo. It may not be as difficult of a goal to reach now,but in the near future it just might be.

  • Danny N

    I find it interesting that the article fails to reference the already long-standing culture of competitive video gaming: the starcraft community. It’s widely considered/joked by even its citizens that South Korea’s national sport is Starcraft.

    Fighting Game culture, while having existed for longer, is finally coming to a point where it’s being recognized nationally and it parallels the rise of Starcraft around the time Broodwar came out.

    I’ve been involved in both (did a fair bit of tournament-ing some time ago during the soul edge era, played broodwar heavily on the iccup network and still play sc2 as competitively as I can) for a long time and it’s an easy comparison to make.

    If you want to look for potential pitfalls and future diving read up on sc history.

  • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

    “it is competitors, not fans that will ensure the long-term strength and growth of our community”

    Damn straight.

  • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

    “it is competitors, not fans that will ensure the long-term strength and growth of our community”

    Damn straight.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Q5JUJO4E36GYHZFWX4BL72OT6I P S

      Yes, as more of a fighting game fan than a hardcore competitor I’ll try to remember that line next time I decide to donate to a tourney or stream and how I’m not helping the strength or growth of the community as a non-serious competitor.
      And someone said above there was nothing elitist about this article?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Q5JUJO4E36GYHZFWX4BL72OT6I P S

      Yes, as more of a fighting game fan than a hardcore competitor I’ll try to remember that line next time I decide to donate to a tourney or stream and how I’m not helping the strength or growth of the community as a non-serious competitor.
      And someone said above there was nothing elitist about this article?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Q5JUJO4E36GYHZFWX4BL72OT6I P S

      Yes, as more of a fighting game fan than a hardcore competitor I’ll try to remember that line next time I decide to donate to a tourney or stream and how I’m not helping the strength or growth of the community as a non-serious competitor.
      And someone said above there was nothing elitist about this article?

      • José Llera

        The people you help with your donations that make these tournaments and streams happen are very often hardcore competitors as well, so why is that statement elitist?

        While there’s not a clear divide between “just a fan” and “hardcore”, it’s clear he’s just stating the heart of the fighting game community lies in its people who are passionate about playing at a competitive level, and I completely agree.

      • Moribund Cadaver

        I’m sorry, but, I don’t think you’re reading the article entirely right. It’s easy to single out a single line and nitpick an elitist tone out of it. But in this case, read between the lines. “the fans” here refers to people who don’t compete… at all. The article is not about the most serious competitors only. -That’s the entire point-. That fighting games invite everyone to compete, for virtually no entry fee (including a physical entry fee, and now with online play, a location-based entry requirement). Compete at their own level. It doesn’t matter WHAT that level is.

        This isn’t about only Justin Wong mattering. In point of fact, that reading totally reverses the point of the article! The point is that the Justin Wongs are NOT special and unique snowflakes who exist on a plane above we, the rabble, who are intended only to look, but never touch.

        I believe the spirit of the discussion lay in trying to get across this message: that people who play as well as watch, are an example of what makes these kinds of “sports” different. People who play at any level; pro or casual, play a little or play a lot.

        I’m not uncritical of the article; its language is misleading in a few spots and I believe that works against what the author is trying to get across. Some comments here are seriously throwing the baby out with the bathwater though. Most of the article conveys a good message. The idea is in the right place.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GCA337YWRVNLGMLFZ7CY74B6VY K O

        And the award for most delusional sense of entitlement goes to…

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GCA337YWRVNLGMLFZ7CY74B6VY K O

        And the award for most delusional sense of entitlement goes to…

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GCA337YWRVNLGMLFZ7CY74B6VY K O

        And the award for most delusional sense of entitlement goes to…

      • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

        Paying registration fees and traveling to the middle of the desert for three days contributes a bit more to the community than giving Spooky five to ten bucks. There’s also a greater return on investment.
        8.95

      • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

        Paying registration fees and traveling to the middle of the desert for three days contributes a bit more to the community than giving Spooky five to ten bucks. There’s also a greater return on investment.
        8.95

      • http://twitter.com/MiGaOh Michael G. O’Hair

        Paying registration fees and traveling to the middle of the desert for three days contributes a bit more to the community than giving Spooky five to ten bucks. There’s also a greater return on investment.
        8.95

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Benjamin-Good/100003082526867 Benjamin Good

        Without the community, there would be no streams, but if there were no streams, there would still be a community.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Benjamin-Good/100003082526867 Benjamin Good

        Without the community, there would be no streams, but if there were no streams, there would still be a community.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Q5JUJO4E36GYHZFWX4BL72OT6I P S

      Yes, as more of a fighting game fan than a hardcore competitor I’ll try to remember that line next time I decide to donate to a tourney or stream and how I’m not helping the strength or growth of the community as a non-serious competitor.
      And someone said above there was nothing elitist about this article?

  • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

    Fighting game drought? There were other fighting games out there but apparently people missed them because “CAPCOM” wasn’t on the box.

  • http://twitter.com/srslygtfo Mr. X

    Fighting game drought? There were other fighting games out there but apparently people missed them because “CAPCOM” wasn’t on the box.

  • http://www.facebook.com/kid1337 Lee VH

    Who the heck is just a fan ? I don’t even know one !

  • http://www.facebook.com/kid1337 Lee VH

    Who the heck is just a fan ? I don’t even know one !

  • http://www.facebook.com/kid1337 Lee VH

    Who the heck is just a fan ? I don’t even know one !

  • Anonymous

    I don’t live in NY or LA.

    There is no fighting game scene.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t live in NY or LA.

    There is no fighting game scene.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Those are not the only places with scenes. You may have to just look harder or organize several other people in your area who want to play but make the same assumptions you’re making because ya’ll dont have an online presence.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Those are not the only places with scenes. You may have to just look harder or organize several other people in your area who want to play but make the same assumptions you’re making because ya’ll dont have an online presence.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Those are not the only places with scenes. You may have to just look harder or organize several other people in your area who want to play but make the same assumptions you’re making because ya’ll dont have an online presence.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Those are not the only places with scenes. You may have to just look harder or organize several other people in your area who want to play but make the same assumptions you’re making because ya’ll dont have an online presence.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Those are not the only places with scenes. You may have to just look harder or organize several other people in your area who want to play but make the same assumptions you’re making because ya’ll dont have an online presence.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Those are not the only places with scenes. You may have to just look harder or organize several other people in your area who want to play but make the same assumptions you’re making because ya’ll dont have an online presence.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Those are not the only places with scenes. You may have to just look harder or organize several other people in your area who want to play but make the same assumptions you’re making because ya’ll dont have an online presence.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Those are not the only places with scenes. You may have to just look harder or organize several other people in your area who want to play but make the same assumptions you’re making because ya’ll dont have an online presence.

    • http://twitter.com/Mightfo Mightfo

      Those are not the only places with scenes. You may have to just look harder or organize several other people in your area who want to play but make the same assumptions you’re making because ya’ll dont have an online presence.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ivan-Noltenius/839150149 Ivan Noltenius

      Where do you live? Have you checked the regional matchmaking boards? Unless you live in North Dakota or something there is most likely a scene near you.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ivan-Noltenius/839150149 Ivan Noltenius

      Where do you live? Have you checked the regional matchmaking boards? Unless you live in North Dakota or something there is most likely a scene near you.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ivan-Noltenius/839150149 Ivan Noltenius

      Where do you live? Have you checked the regional matchmaking boards? Unless you live in North Dakota or something there is most likely a scene near you.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ivan-Noltenius/839150149 Ivan Noltenius

      Where do you live? Have you checked the regional matchmaking boards? Unless you live in North Dakota or something there is most likely a scene near you.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ivan-Noltenius/839150149 Ivan Noltenius

      Where do you live? Have you checked the regional matchmaking boards? Unless you live in North Dakota or something there is most likely a scene near you.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t live in NY or LA.

    There is no fighting game scene.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t live in NY or LA.

    There is no fighting game scene.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Danny-Craig/717415091 Danny Craig

    I’ll admit I’ve became more of a stream monster than a competitor as I’m growing older and older.

    I just don’t have the motivation(big factor), dedication, and passion to improve my skills.
    I dont know, maybe its because theres other things to do, maybe because the local scene is stagnant and it kind of died down.
    But I love watching fighting game matches, even if I don’t play them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Danny-Craig/717415091 Danny Craig

    I’ll admit I’ve became more of a stream monster than a competitor as I’m growing older and older.

    I just don’t have the motivation(big factor), dedication, and passion to improve my skills.
    I dont know, maybe its because theres other things to do, maybe because the local scene is stagnant and it kind of died down.
    But I love watching fighting game matches, even if I don’t play them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Danny-Craig/717415091 Danny Craig

    I’ll admit I’ve became more of a stream monster than a competitor as I’m growing older and older.

    I just don’t have the motivation(big factor), dedication, and passion to improve my skills.
    I dont know, maybe its because theres other things to do, maybe because the local scene is stagnant and it kind of died down.
    But I love watching fighting game matches, even if I don’t play them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Danny-Craig/717415091 Danny Craig

    I’ll admit I’ve became more of a stream monster than a competitor as I’m growing older and older.

    I just don’t have the motivation(big factor), dedication, and passion to improve my skills.
    I dont know, maybe its because theres other things to do, maybe because the local scene is stagnant and it kind of died down.
    But I love watching fighting game matches, even if I don’t play them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Danny-Craig/717415091 Danny Craig

    I’ll admit I’ve became more of a stream monster than a competitor as I’m growing older and older.

    I just don’t have the motivation(big factor), dedication, and passion to improve my skills.
    I dont know, maybe its because theres other things to do, maybe because the local scene is stagnant and it kind of died down.
    But I love watching fighting game matches, even if I don’t play them.

  • Anonymous

    I feel I needed to chime in on this article. I think people
    don’t realize that people may level up at different paces. and just because you
    may not have leveled up quite enough to compete yet doesn’t mean you cant be
    “into” fighting games. Being a competitive fighting game player takes
    tons of dedication, research, as well as countless man hours in-game working on
    things like combos, links, match-up knowledge, concepts of zoning, spacing and setups etc
    etc. These concepts and skills can be a lot for a new player to grasp right
    away.

    Even if you have the dedication to want to get better and improve, the pace at
    which a person takes the time to sit in front of their game to be motivated and
    disciplined enough to not only practice these concepts, but actually commit
    them to memory, and improve one’s execution to where they can apply them in
    match against higher level competition without error on command, can vary
    extremely when you factor in things like real life responsibilities which can
    drain the time you have to even play video games, or if you’re a gamer of
    multiple genres, dividing your precious free time between your other games and
    your fighters can be daunting and even the need to take the occasional break
    from a fighting game after frustrations due to plateauing or a frustrating
    losing streak can all slow progress of your goal of “leveling up”
    enough to be good enough to want to compete at tourneys and not feel its a
    waste of time due to lack of knowledge or skill.

    I consider myself a lower- intermediate fighting game player (hard on myself
    but I’m pretty good I suppose)..I’m not a total masher, I have basic concepts
    of how to play correctly, but my study of higher level tech is just beginning,
    I try to play as much as I can, I read/study whatever I can get my eyes on whenever
    I can, and i also regularly watch streams of major tournaments whenever my
    schedule allows me. Admittedly, I have my “favorite” players from
    other regions I watch, and am subscribed to many youtube channels of popular
    players such as Cross Counter and FingerCramp and i actively watch/read many
    things fighting game related strictly for “entertainment” purposes,
    yet I dont feel like that makes me any less “into the scene” because
    I’m more of a spectator right now than I am a competitor.

    I think its only natural to admire/respect those of us that can do something of
    a common interest better than we can (i.e play fighting games). You aspire to
    be on their level but it doesn’t mean you are submitting to failure, submitting to their “greatness”, or quitting,
    you just recognize there are people more talented than you, and it captivates
    your imagination. You want to see themexecute flawlessly in high pressure situations, you want to watch these players earn a big money pot by taking out multiple “killers”, you want to witness
    great moments like the one’s that happen at Evo first hand so you can feel the “hype”, even if you yourself may or may not be capable of similar
    results at the current time. Its just like a sport, you maybe play your favorite sport on an amateur level, but you still watch the professionals do it. Your love of the
    game is there, and you still play yourself, but you still watch people better
    than you do it because its entertaining.

     

    Not only that but the fighting game community at large and as of late has
    kind of promoted boisterous personalities and welcomed “fandom” from the community. Top players like Mike Ross & Gootecks, Combofiend
    or Yipes are known for their fun, candid personalities if not more than their actual fighting
    game skills. Once you let people “in” on what kind of person you are, it can
    only naturally garner people that grow to like you and be drawn more to you
    than other people, as well as form some sort of “bond’ with “fans” that admire
    you as a person as well as your hi level playstyle in video games. With
    sponsorships and big money pots on the line for these popular players on the
    stages of internet streams viewed by tens of thousands of people at a time, if
    favoritism, or fandom is something that the Fighting Game Community wants to
    not promote, this is definitely not the direction they want to go in as these
    types of stakes and high viewership can only attract more people that just want
    to “watch”, and not “play”.

     

    Me personally as someone who has actually enjoyed “playing”
    fighting games as long as I’ve been old enough to stand at an arcade cabinet,
    seeing high level players play seeing them enjoy going to tournaments, and creating content
    for fighting game enthusiast to enjoy and just reaping the benefits of
    following a passion of thiers, only motivates me to become a stronger player, be apart of my scene and contribute in my own way. Realistically however, that takes time and lots of work for some people, while some take to it
    naturally and jump right in, there are those
    of us that love the genre, are grinding
    it out,but may or may not be counted out yet.

  • Anonymous

    I feel I needed to chime in on this article. I think people
    don’t realize that people may level up at different paces. and just because you
    may not have leveled up quite enough to compete yet doesn’t mean you cant be
    “into” fighting games. Being a competitive fighting game player takes
    tons of dedication, research, as well as countless man hours in-game working on
    things like combos, links, match-up knowledge, concepts of zoning, spacing and setups etc
    etc. These concepts and skills can be a lot for a new player to grasp right
    away.

    Even if you have the dedication to want to get better and improve, the pace at
    which a person takes the time to sit in front of their game to be motivated and
    disciplined enough to not only practice these concepts, but actually commit
    them to memory, and improve one’s execution to where they can apply them in
    match against higher level competition without error on command, can vary
    extremely when you factor in things like real life responsibilities which can
    drain the time you have to even play video games, or if you’re a gamer of
    multiple genres, dividing your precious free time between your other games and
    your fighters can be daunting and even the need to take the occasional break
    from a fighting game after frustrations due to plateauing or a frustrating
    losing streak can all slow progress of your goal of “leveling up”
    enough to be good enough to want to compete at tourneys and not feel its a
    waste of time due to lack of knowledge or skill.

    I consider myself a lower- intermediate fighting game player (hard on myself
    but I’m pretty good I suppose)..I’m not a total masher, I have basic concepts
    of how to play correctly, but my study of higher level tech is just beginning,
    I try to play as much as I can, I read/study whatever I can get my eyes on whenever
    I can, and i also regularly watch streams of major tournaments whenever my
    schedule allows me. Admittedly, I have my “favorite” players from
    other regions I watch, and am subscribed to many youtube channels of popular
    players such as Cross Counter and FingerCramp and i actively watch/read many
    things fighting game related strictly for “entertainment” purposes,
    yet I dont feel like that makes me any less “into the scene” because
    I’m more of a spectator right now than I am a competitor.

    I think its only natural to admire/respect those of us that can do something of
    a common interest better than we can (i.e play fighting games). You aspire to
    be on their level but it doesn’t mean you are submitting to failure, submitting to their “greatness”, or quitting,
    you just recognize there are people more talented than you, and it captivates
    your imagination. You want to see themexecute flawlessly in high pressure situations, you want to watch these players earn a big money pot by taking out multiple “killers”, you want to witness
    great moments like the one’s that happen at Evo first hand so you can feel the “hype”, even if you yourself may or may not be capable of similar
    results at the current time. Its just like a sport, you maybe play your favorite sport on an amateur level, but you still watch the professionals do it. Your love of the
    game is there, and you still play yourself, but you still watch people better
    than you do it because its entertaining.

     

    Not only that but the fighting game community at large and as of late has
    kind of promoted boisterous personalities and welcomed “fandom” from the community. Top players like Mike Ross & Gootecks, Combofiend
    or Yipes are known for their fun, candid personalities if not more than their actual fighting
    game skills. Once you let people “in” on what kind of person you are, it can
    only naturally garner people that grow to like you and be drawn more to you
    than other people, as well as form some sort of “bond’ with “fans” that admire
    you as a person as well as your hi level playstyle in video games. With
    sponsorships and big money pots on the line for these popular players on the
    stages of internet streams viewed by tens of thousands of people at a time, if
    favoritism, or fandom is something that the Fighting Game Community wants to
    not promote, this is definitely not the direction they want to go in as these
    types of stakes and high viewership can only attract more people that just want
    to “watch”, and not “play”.

     

    Me personally as someone who has actually enjoyed “playing”
    fighting games as long as I’ve been old enough to stand at an arcade cabinet,
    seeing high level players play seeing them enjoy going to tournaments, and creating content
    for fighting game enthusiast to enjoy and just reaping the benefits of
    following a passion of thiers, only motivates me to become a stronger player, be apart of my scene and contribute in my own way. Realistically however, that takes time and lots of work for some people, while some take to it
    naturally and jump right in, there are those
    of us that love the genre, are grinding
    it out,but may or may not be counted out yet.

    • Anonymous

      You don’t need to “level up” to compete. Just start competing. You will get better much faster.

    • Anonymous

      You don’t need to “level up” to compete. Just start competing. You will get better much faster.

    • Anonymous

      You don’t need to “level up” to compete. Just start competing. You will get better much faster.

  • Bavo Bruylandt

    I see these kind of articles pop up a lot at SRK.com, and I feel that this view on the community comes from being the – rightfully – elitist FGC for, well, decades.
    However, it is disrespectful to the larger part of the community, and may very well become the factor that holds SRK back at becoming the largest community. Seems like you are making the choice between players and spectators, and choosing the former. Understandably so, given the background. Still, beware that this can cost you an opportunity that may become big in the coming years.
    There is a reason why sites such as Eventhubs can attract large community with little investment and time, the attitude towards the non-elite. It’s because you let them to, because you don’t really want to be this big.

    Make a choice, then stop complaining.

    But I would prefer that SRK gets it together and combines the crowds into one large community that is respected both, as SRK has proven to have good management.

    First thing that needs to go is the term ‘stream monsters’. These people aren’t monsters, they are the ones that sponsors advertise to, and sponsors are the ones that pay pro’s to be pro.

  • Bavo Bruylandt

    I see these kind of articles pop up a lot at SRK.com, and I feel that this view on the community comes from being the – rightfully – elitist FGC for, well, decades.
    However, it is disrespectful to the larger part of the community, and may very well become the factor that holds SRK back at becoming the largest community. Seems like you are making the choice between players and spectators, and choosing the former. Understandably so, given the background. Still, beware that this can cost you an opportunity that may become big in the coming years.
    There is a reason why sites such as Eventhubs can attract large community with little investment and time, the attitude towards the non-elite. It’s because you let them to, because you don’t really want to be this big.

    Make a choice, then stop complaining.

    But I would prefer that SRK gets it together and combines the crowds into one large community that is respected both, as SRK has proven to have good management.

    First thing that needs to go is the term ‘stream monsters’. These people aren’t monsters, they are the ones that sponsors advertise to, and sponsors are the ones that pay pro’s to be pro.

  • Bavo Bruylandt

    I see these kind of articles pop up a lot at SRK.com, and I feel that this view on the community comes from being the – rightfully – elitist FGC for, well, decades.
    However, it is disrespectful to the larger part of the community, and may very well become the factor that holds SRK back at becoming the largest community. Seems like you are making the choice between players and spectators, and choosing the former. Understandably so, given the background. Still, beware that this can cost you an opportunity that may become big in the coming years.
    There is a reason why sites such as Eventhubs can attract large community with little investment and time, the attitude towards the non-elite. It’s because you let them to, because you don’t really want to be this big.

    Make a choice, then stop complaining.

    But I would prefer that SRK gets it together and combines the crowds into one large community that is respected both, as SRK has proven to have good management.

    First thing that needs to go is the term ‘stream monsters’. These people aren’t monsters, they are the ones that sponsors advertise to, and sponsors are the ones that pay pro’s to be pro.

  • Bavo Bruylandt

    I see these kind of articles pop up a lot at SRK.com, and I feel that this view on the community comes from being the – rightfully – elitist FGC for, well, decades.
    However, it is disrespectful to the larger part of the community, and may very well become the factor that holds SRK back at becoming the largest community. Seems like you are making the choice between players and spectators, and choosing the former. Understandably so, given the background. Still, beware that this can cost you an opportunity that may become big in the coming years.
    There is a reason why sites such as Eventhubs can attract large community with little investment and time, the attitude towards the non-elite. It’s because you let them to, because you don’t really want to be this big.

    Make a choice, then stop complaining.

    But I would prefer that SRK gets it together and combines the crowds into one large community that is respected both, as SRK has proven to have good management.

    First thing that needs to go is the term ‘stream monsters’. These people aren’t monsters, they are the ones that sponsors advertise to, and sponsors are the ones that pay pro’s to be pro.

  • Bavo Bruylandt

    I see these kind of articles pop up a lot at SRK.com, and I feel that this view on the community comes from being the – rightfully – elitist FGC for, well, decades.
    However, it is disrespectful to the larger part of the community, and may very well become the factor that holds SRK back at becoming the largest community. Seems like you are making the choice between players and spectators, and choosing the former. Understandably so, given the background. Still, beware that this can cost you an opportunity that may become big in the coming years.
    There is a reason why sites such as Eventhubs can attract large community with little investment and time, the attitude towards the non-elite. It’s because you let them to, because you don’t really want to be this big.

    Make a choice, then stop complaining.

    But I would prefer that SRK gets it together and combines the crowds into one large community that is respected both, as SRK has proven to have good management.

    First thing that needs to go is the term ‘stream monsters’. These people aren’t monsters, they are the ones that sponsors advertise to, and sponsors are the ones that pay pro’s to be pro.

  • Bavo Bruylandt

    I see these kind of articles pop up a lot at SRK.com, and I feel that this view on the community comes from being the – rightfully – elitist FGC for, well, decades.
    However, it is disrespectful to the larger part of the community, and may very well become the factor that holds SRK back at becoming the largest community. Seems like you are making the choice between players and spectators, and choosing the former. Understandably so, given the background. Still, beware that this can cost you an opportunity that may become big in the coming years.
    There is a reason why sites such as Eventhubs can attract large community with little investment and time, the attitude towards the non-elite. It’s because you let them to, because you don’t really want to be this big.

    Make a choice, then stop complaining.

    But I would prefer that SRK gets it together and combines the crowds into one large community that is respected both, as SRK has proven to have good management.

    First thing that needs to go is the term ‘stream monsters’. These people aren’t monsters, they are the ones that sponsors advertise to, and sponsors are the ones that pay pro’s to be pro.

  • http://twitter.com/Poe22222 Poe

    Nice article.  Thought-provoking, although I only partially agree.  I agree that more people should, if they want to be good, put in the time and effort to be good and make it out to tournaments.  However, as others have said, it’s just not possible nor in my opinion “right” to expect everyone to have a shot at winning tourneys.  It takes a lot of time and it DOES take talent to be great.  I’m sorry, but I know some people who just don’t have the ability to be great, and there are plenty of intelligent, driven people who have other important goals/responsibilities in life, and there is nothing wrong with them participating in the scene at whatever level they can.  And I agree that stream monsters is a crappy term.  It’s not a bad thing for there to be spectators.  If everyone could participate at the highest levels, then being a top player wouldn’t be special, would it?

  • http://twitter.com/Poe22222 Poe

    Nice article.  Thought-provoking, although I only partially agree.  I agree that more people should, if they want to be good, put in the time and effort to be good and make it out to tournaments.  However, as others have said, it’s just not possible nor in my opinion “right” to expect everyone to have a shot at winning tourneys.  It takes a lot of time and it DOES take talent to be great.  I’m sorry, but I know some people who just don’t have the ability to be great, and there are plenty of intelligent, driven people who have other important goals/responsibilities in life, and there is nothing wrong with them participating in the scene at whatever level they can.  And I agree that stream monsters is a crappy term.  It’s not a bad thing for there to be spectators.  If everyone could participate at the highest levels, then being a top player wouldn’t be special, would it?

  • http://twitter.com/Poe22222 Poe

    Nice article.  Thought-provoking, although I only partially agree.  I agree that more people should, if they want to be good, put in the time and effort to be good and make it out to tournaments.  However, as others have said, it’s just not possible nor in my opinion “right” to expect everyone to have a shot at winning tourneys.  It takes a lot of time and it DOES take talent to be great.  I’m sorry, but I know some people who just don’t have the ability to be great, and there are plenty of intelligent, driven people who have other important goals/responsibilities in life, and there is nothing wrong with them participating in the scene at whatever level they can.  And I agree that stream monsters is a crappy term.  It’s not a bad thing for there to be spectators.  If everyone could participate at the highest levels, then being a top player wouldn’t be special, would it?

  • http://twitter.com/Poe22222 Poe

    Nice article.  Thought-provoking, although I only partially agree.  I agree that more people should, if they want to be good, put in the time and effort to be good and make it out to tournaments.  However, as others have said, it’s just not possible nor in my opinion “right” to expect everyone to have a shot at winning tourneys.  It takes a lot of time and it DOES take talent to be great.  I’m sorry, but I know some people who just don’t have the ability to be great, and there are plenty of intelligent, driven people who have other important goals/responsibilities in life, and there is nothing wrong with them participating in the scene at whatever level they can.  And I agree that stream monsters is a crappy term.  It’s not a bad thing for there to be spectators.  If everyone could participate at the highest levels, then being a top player wouldn’t be special, would it?

  • Anonymous

    We’ve been telling newcomers and armchair warriors for a long time now about how great it is to participate. They just keep saying “what for? Capcom is putting in GGPO netplay. Also I heard Chun is getting DLC to put her in Elena’s costume so I need to save my money for that.”

    Games are more geared towards casuals yet casuals still don’t do shit but stay home and wank off to Ono’s fanservice bullshit. Nice article and very well written, but it’s the same sad shit over and over again.

  • Anonymous

    We’ve been telling newcomers and armchair warriors for a long time now about how great it is to participate. They just keep saying “what for? Capcom is putting in GGPO netplay. Also I heard Chun is getting DLC to put her in Elena’s costume so I need to save my money for that.”

    Games are more geared towards casuals yet casuals still don’t do shit but stay home and wank off to Ono’s fanservice bullshit. Nice article and very well written, but it’s the same sad shit over and over again.

  • Anonymous

    We’ve been telling newcomers and armchair warriors for a long time now about how great it is to participate. They just keep saying “what for? Capcom is putting in GGPO netplay. Also I heard Chun is getting DLC to put her in Elena’s costume so I need to save my money for that.”

    Games are more geared towards casuals yet casuals still don’t do shit but stay home and wank off to Ono’s fanservice bullshit. Nice article and very well written, but it’s the same sad shit over and over again.

  • Anonymous

    We’ve been telling newcomers and armchair warriors for a long time now about how great it is to participate. They just keep saying “what for? Capcom is putting in GGPO netplay. Also I heard Chun is getting DLC to put her in Elena’s costume so I need to save my money for that.”

    Games are more geared towards casuals yet casuals still don’t do shit but stay home and wank off to Ono’s fanservice bullshit. Nice article and very well written, but it’s the same sad shit over and over again.

  • Anonymous

    “…it is competitors, not fans that will ensure the
    long-term strength and growth of our community. As much as I hope it
    never happens, if we ever experience another fighting game drought like
    the one we suffered from 2001-2009, it will be the competitors you can
    count on to stick around.”

    The first part of this quote is just logically stupid. If the competitors ensure strength and growth then why did the drought even occur? Did the competitors disappear from 2001-2009? Obviously not, they’ve been in the exact same place they’ve always been. The reason fighting games are having a resurgence right now has nothing to do with me, you, SRK, or any of the top players. It’s the fucking eyeballs on the streams and the money in the companies’ pockets. The ‘steam monsters’ allow the competitive community to grow and
    progress by bringing in the sponsors who pour money into the scene and
    developers who actually make the fucking games we’re talking about.

    But never mind all that. The basic premise of the article is pretty stupid too. The reason fighting games are great is because I might one day get close to playing against a top player? That’s flat out retarded. Do you think that when I watch hockey I’m wishing I could be playing against Pavel Datsyuk or Sydney Crosby? I’ve never even put on a pair of ice skates much less played hockey, nor would I want to. And yet I still never miss a Red Wings game. I watch hockey because I think it’s a fun and interesting game to watch. Fighting games are great because they are a unique competitive experience. They combine the quick reflexes and snap decision making of sports with the tricks and mind games of things like poker all wrapped up in an entertaining, fun to watch package. The fact that someone might bump into Justin Wong in their bracket some day has absolutely jack shit to do with MvC3 moving off store shelves.

    It’s also pretty hilarious to see so many people on SRK agree that the low barrier to entry is what makes fighting games so great. It seems to me that every time a developer makes a change to a game to make it easier and more accessible it’s the people here who piss and moan the loudest.

    I’ve been a fan of fighting games for more than a decade now and I can tell you with certainty that the ‘values’ that you’re worried about losing have nothing to do with the recent success of fighting games. You seriously want all those sponsored players to only use the best characters? From a purely competitive standpoint that’s what they should do. And that’s what most people did from 2001-2009. For me and more hardcore members of the fighting game community that’s fine. We don’t care about the flash or the variety, we are watching for different reasons. But it’s crystal fucking clear that that mentality isn’t going to make the community thrive and grow. If you want the hype and the sponsors and the resurgence to continue then you need to put pressure on the developers to not make a shitty product with only a couple characters worth using. Otherwise you will be left with nothing but your ‘values’ and a shrinking fan base playing the same game with the same four to six characters for ten more years.

    If the top players picking low tier characters is what it takes to keep things on the same track, then so fucking be it. I happen to like where things are going right now a damn sight better than I did a few years ago.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Reginald-G/27604487 Reginald G.

      I feel like that was the best comment on this article.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Reginald-G/27604487 Reginald G.

      I feel like that was the best comment on this article.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Reginald-G/27604487 Reginald G.

      I feel like that was the best comment on this article.

  • Anonymous

    “…it is competitors, not fans that will ensure the
    long-term strength and growth of our community. As much as I hope it
    never happens, if we ever experience another fighting game drought like
    the one we suffered from 2001-2009, it will be the competitors you can
    count on to stick around.”

    The first part of this quote is just logically stupid. If the competitors ensure strength and growth then why did the drought even occur? Did the competitors disappear from 2001-2009? Obviously not, they’ve been in the exact same place they’ve always been. The reason fighting games are having a resurgence right now has nothing to do with me, you, SRK, or any of the top players. It’s the fucking eyeballs on the streams and the money in the companies’ pockets. The ‘steam monsters’ allow the competitive community to grow and
    progress by bringing in the sponsors who pour money into the scene and
    developers who actually make the fucking games we’re talking about.

    But never mind all that. The basic premise of the article is pretty stupid too. The reason fighting games are great is because I might one day get close to playing against a top player? That’s flat out retarded. Do you think that when I watch hockey I’m wishing I could be playing against Pavel Datsyuk or Sydney Crosby? I’ve never even put on a pair of ice skates much less played hockey, nor would I want to. And yet I still never miss a Red Wings game. I watch hockey because I think it’s a fun and interesting game to watch. Fighting games are great because they are a unique competitive experience. They combine the quick reflexes and snap decision making of sports with the tricks and mind games of things like poker all wrapped up in an entertaining, fun to watch package. The fact that someone might bump into Justin Wong in their bracket some day has absolutely jack shit to do with MvC3 moving off store shelves.

    It’s also pretty hilarious to see so many people on SRK agree that the low barrier to entry is what makes fighting games so great. It seems to me that every time a developer makes a change to a game to make it easier and more accessible it’s the people here who piss and moan the loudest.

    I’ve been a fan of fighting games for more than a decade now and I can tell you with certainty that the ‘values’ that you’re worried about losing have nothing to do with the recent success of fighting games. You seriously want all those sponsored players to only use the best characters? From a purely competitive standpoint that’s what they should do. And that’s what most people did from 2001-2009. For me and more hardcore members of the fighting game community that’s fine. We don’t care about the flash or the variety, we are watching for different reasons. But it’s crystal fucking clear that that mentality isn’t going to make the community thrive and grow. If you want the hype and the sponsors and the resurgence to continue then you need to put pressure on the developers to not make a shitty product with only a couple characters worth using. Otherwise you will be left with nothing but your ‘values’ and a shrinking fan base playing the same game with the same four to six characters for ten more years.

    If the top players picking low tier characters is what it takes to keep things on the same track, then so fucking be it. I happen to like where things are going right now a damn sight better than I did a few years ago.

  • Anonymous

    “…it is competitors, not fans that will ensure the
    long-term strength and growth of our community. As much as I hope it
    never happens, if we ever experience another fighting game drought like
    the one we suffered from 2001-2009, it will be the competitors you can
    count on to stick around.”

    The first part of this quote is just logically stupid. If the competitors ensure strength and growth then why did the drought even occur? Did the competitors disappear from 2001-2009? Obviously not, they’ve been in the exact same place they’ve always been. The reason fighting games are having a resurgence right now has nothing to do with me, you, SRK, or any of the top players. It’s the fucking eyeballs on the streams and the money in the companies’ pockets. The ‘steam monsters’ allow the competitive community to grow and
    progress by bringing in the sponsors who pour money into the scene and
    developers who actually make the fucking games we’re talking about.

    But never mind all that. The basic premise of the article is pretty stupid too. The reason fighting games are great is because I might one day get close to playing against a top player? That’s flat out retarded. Do you think that when I watch hockey I’m wishing I could be playing against Pavel Datsyuk or Sydney Crosby? I’ve never even put on a pair of ice skates much less played hockey, nor would I want to. And yet I still never miss a Red Wings game. I watch hockey because I think it’s a fun and interesting game to watch. Fighting games are great because they are a unique competitive experience. They combine the quick reflexes and snap decision making of sports with the tricks and mind games of things like poker all wrapped up in an entertaining, fun to watch package. The fact that someone might bump into Justin Wong in their bracket some day has absolutely jack shit to do with MvC3 moving off store shelves.

    It’s also pretty hilarious to see so many people on SRK agree that the low barrier to entry is what makes fighting games so great. It seems to me that every time a developer makes a change to a game to make it easier and more accessible it’s the people here who piss and moan the loudest.

    I’ve been a fan of fighting games for more than a decade now and I can tell you with certainty that the ‘values’ that you’re worried about losing have nothing to do with the recent success of fighting games. You seriously want all those sponsored players to only use the best characters? From a purely competitive standpoint that’s what they should do. And that’s what most people did from 2001-2009. For me and more hardcore members of the fighting game community that’s fine. We don’t care about the flash or the variety, we are watching for different reasons. But it’s crystal fucking clear that that mentality isn’t going to make the community thrive and grow. If you want the hype and the sponsors and the resurgence to continue then you need to put pressure on the developers to not make a shitty product with only a couple characters worth using. Otherwise you will be left with nothing but your ‘values’ and a shrinking fan base playing the same game with the same four to six characters for ten more years.

    If the top players picking low tier characters is what it takes to keep things on the same track, then so fucking be it. I happen to like where things are going right now a damn sight better than I did a few years ago.

  • Anonymous

    “…it is competitors, not fans that will ensure the
    long-term strength and growth of our community. As much as I hope it
    never happens, if we ever experience another fighting game drought like
    the one we suffered from 2001-2009, it will be the competitors you can
    count on to stick around.”

    The first part of this quote is just logically stupid. If the competitors ensure strength and growth then why did the drought even occur? Did the competitors disappear from 2001-2009? Obviously not, they’ve been in the exact same place they’ve always been. The reason fighting games are having a resurgence right now has nothing to do with me, you, SRK, or any of the top players. It’s the fucking eyeballs on the streams and the money in the companies’ pockets. The ‘steam monsters’ allow the competitive community to grow and
    progress by bringing in the sponsors who pour money into the scene and
    developers who actually make the fucking games we’re talking about.

    But never mind all that. The basic premise of the article is pretty stupid too. The reason fighting games are great is because I might one day get close to playing against a top player? That’s flat out retarded. Do you think that when I watch hockey I’m wishing I could be playing against Pavel Datsyuk or Sydney Crosby? I’ve never even put on a pair of ice skates much less played hockey, nor would I want to. And yet I still never miss a Red Wings game. I watch hockey because I think it’s a fun and interesting game to watch. Fighting games are great because they are a unique competitive experience. They combine the quick reflexes and snap decision making of sports with the tricks and mind games of things like poker all wrapped up in an entertaining, fun to watch package. The fact that someone might bump into Justin Wong in their bracket some day has absolutely jack shit to do with MvC3 moving off store shelves.

    It’s also pretty hilarious to see so many people on SRK agree that the low barrier to entry is what makes fighting games so great. It seems to me that every time a developer makes a change to a game to make it easier and more accessible it’s the people here who piss and moan the loudest.

    I’ve been a fan of fighting games for more than a decade now and I can tell you with certainty that the ‘values’ that you’re worried about losing have nothing to do with the recent success of fighting games. You seriously want all those sponsored players to only use the best characters? From a purely competitive standpoint that’s what they should do. And that’s what most people did from 2001-2009. For me and more hardcore members of the fighting game community that’s fine. We don’t care about the flash or the variety, we are watching for different reasons. But it’s crystal fucking clear that that mentality isn’t going to make the community thrive and grow. If you want the hype and the sponsors and the resurgence to continue then you need to put pressure on the developers to not make a shitty product with only a couple characters worth using. Otherwise you will be left with nothing but your ‘values’ and a shrinking fan base playing the same game with the same four to six characters for ten more years.

    If the top players picking low tier characters is what it takes to keep things on the same track, then so fucking be it. I happen to like where things are going right now a damn sight better than I did a few years ago.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Reginald-G/27604487 Reginald G.

    I think talent overrides anything regarding better at something. Some people are taller than others, some have higher IQ’s, or have insight that others may not see. Should I hate on them for it? Of course not. No matter how many hours of practice I put it, Michael Jordan on his worst day will beat me at my best. Daigo would do the same. And that’s fine with me.

    But I, or others, shouldn’t have to feel like they’re being shamed because they didn’t play.That is an elitist thought to have, and I’d rather subscribe to the thinking that more people observing and being involved is better than the same group keeping the glory days of the past together.

    For the record, I only got into fighting games because of streaming EVO2k10.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Reginald-G/27604487 Reginald G.

    I think talent overrides anything regarding better at something. Some people are taller than others, some have higher IQ’s, or have insight that others may not see. Should I hate on them for it? Of course not. No matter how many hours of practice I put it, Michael Jordan on his worst day will beat me at my best. Daigo would do the same. And that’s fine with me.

    But I, or others, shouldn’t have to feel like they’re being shamed because they didn’t play.That is an elitist thought to have, and I’d rather subscribe to the thinking that more people observing and being involved is better than the same group keeping the glory days of the past together.

    For the record, I only got into fighting games because of streaming EVO2k10.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Reginald-G/27604487 Reginald G.

    I think talent overrides anything regarding better at something. Some people are taller than others, some have higher IQ’s, or have insight that others may not see. Should I hate on them for it? Of course not. No matter how many hours of practice I put it, Michael Jordan on his worst day will beat me at my best. Daigo would do the same. And that’s fine with me.

    But I, or others, shouldn’t have to feel like they’re being shamed because they didn’t play.That is an elitist thought to have, and I’d rather subscribe to the thinking that more people observing and being involved is better than the same group keeping the glory days of the past together.

    For the record, I only got into fighting games because of streaming EVO2k10.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Reginald-G/27604487 Reginald G.

    I think talent overrides anything regarding better at something. Some people are taller than others, some have higher IQ’s, or have insight that others may not see. Should I hate on them for it? Of course not. No matter how many hours of practice I put it, Michael Jordan on his worst day will beat me at my best. Daigo would do the same. And that’s fine with me.

    But I, or others, shouldn’t have to feel like they’re being shamed because they didn’t play.That is an elitist thought to have, and I’d rather subscribe to the thinking that more people observing and being involved is better than the same group keeping the glory days of the past together.

    For the record, I only got into fighting games because of streaming EVO2k10.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Reginald-G/27604487 Reginald G.

    I think talent overrides anything regarding better at something. Some people are taller than others, some have higher IQ’s, or have insight that others may not see. Should I hate on them for it? Of course not. No matter how many hours of practice I put it, Michael Jordan on his worst day will beat me at my best. Daigo would do the same. And that’s fine with me.

    But I, or others, shouldn’t have to feel like they’re being shamed because they didn’t play.That is an elitist thought to have, and I’d rather subscribe to the thinking that more people observing and being involved is better than the same group keeping the glory days of the past together.

    For the record, I only got into fighting games because of streaming EVO2k10.

  • Anonymous

    A crucial point which I think could be expanded on more: Natural ability is far less of a limiting factor in fighting games than it is in sports.  Look at how badly our best players have been beaten by unknowns in Japan.  Are there really 30 or 40 people in Japan more talented than anybody in a much larger country, or is this because it’s much easier over there to play against the best for hours every day?  I’d say the evidence lies much more on the latter side.  This also helps explain Poongko’s success, given that he’s probably put more time into AE than anybody on the planet.

    Maybe not everyone can be the next Daigo or Justin, as they do possess some rare talents, but I would argue that just about anybody could become the next Tokido if they had his dedication + access to competition + complete lack of shame.

  • Anonymous

    A crucial point which I think could be expanded on more: Natural ability is far less of a limiting factor in fighting games than it is in sports.  Look at how badly our best players have been beaten by unknowns in Japan.  Are there really 30 or 40 people in Japan more talented than anybody in a much larger country, or is this because it’s much easier over there to play against the best for hours every day?  I’d say the evidence lies much more on the latter side.  This also helps explain Poongko’s success, given that he’s probably put more time into AE than anybody on the planet.

    Maybe not everyone can be the next Daigo or Justin, as they do possess some rare talents, but I would argue that just about anybody could become the next Tokido if they had his dedication + access to competition + complete lack of shame.

  • Anonymous

    A crucial point which I think could be expanded on more: Natural ability is far less of a limiting factor in fighting games than it is in sports.  Look at how badly our best players have been beaten by unknowns in Japan.  Are there really 30 or 40 people in Japan more talented than anybody in a much larger country, or is this because it’s much easier over there to play against the best for hours every day?  I’d say the evidence lies much more on the latter side.  This also helps explain Poongko’s success, given that he’s probably put more time into AE than anybody on the planet.

    Maybe not everyone can be the next Daigo or Justin, as they do possess some rare talents, but I would argue that just about anybody could become the next Tokido if they had his dedication + access to competition + complete lack of shame.

  • Anonymous

    A crucial point which I think could be expanded on more: Natural ability is far less of a limiting factor in fighting games than it is in sports.  Look at how badly our best players have been beaten by unknowns in Japan.  Are there really 30 or 40 people in Japan more talented than anybody in a much larger country, or is this because it’s much easier over there to play against the best for hours every day?  I’d say the evidence lies much more on the latter side.  This also helps explain Poongko’s success, given that he’s probably put more time into AE than anybody on the planet.

    Maybe not everyone can be the next Daigo or Justin, as they do possess some rare talents, but I would argue that just about anybody could become the next Tokido if they had his dedication + access to competition + complete lack of shame.

  • Anonymous

    A crucial point which I think could be expanded on more: Natural ability is far less of a limiting factor in fighting games than it is in sports.  Look at how badly our best players have been beaten by unknowns in Japan.  Are there really 30 or 40 people in Japan more talented than anybody in a much larger country, or is this because it’s much easier over there to play against the best for hours every day?  I’d say the evidence lies much more on the latter side.  This also helps explain Poongko’s success, given that he’s probably put more time into AE than anybody on the planet.

    Maybe not everyone can be the next Daigo or Justin, as they do possess some rare talents, but I would argue that just about anybody could become the next Tokido if they had his dedication + access to competition + complete lack of shame.

  • Anonymous

    A crucial point which I think could be expanded on more: Natural ability is far less of a limiting factor in fighting games than it is in sports.  Look at how badly our best players have been beaten by unknowns in Japan.  Are there really 30 or 40 people in Japan more talented than anybody in a much larger country, or is this because it’s much easier over there to play against the best for hours every day?  I’d say the evidence lies much more on the latter side.  This also helps explain Poongko’s success, given that he’s probably put more time into AE than anybody on the planet.

    Maybe not everyone can be the next Daigo or Justin, as they do possess some rare talents, but I would argue that just about anybody could become the next Tokido if they had his dedication + access to competition + complete lack of shame.

  • Anonymous

    A crucial point which I think could be expanded on more: Natural ability is far less of a limiting factor in fighting games than it is in sports.  Look at how badly our best players have been beaten by unknowns in Japan.  Are there really 30 or 40 people in Japan more talented than anybody in a much larger country, or is this because it’s much easier over there to play against the best for hours every day?  I’d say the evidence lies much more on the latter side.  This also helps explain Poongko’s success, given that he’s probably put more time into AE than anybody on the planet.

    Maybe not everyone can be the next Daigo or Justin, as they do possess some rare talents, but I would argue that just about anybody could become the next Tokido if they had his dedication + access to competition + complete lack of shame.

  • Anonymous

    A crucial point which I think could be expanded on more: Natural ability is far less of a limiting factor in fighting games than it is in sports.  Look at how badly our best players have been beaten by unknowns in Japan.  Are there really 30 or 40 people in Japan more talented than anybody in a much larger country, or is this because it’s much easier over there to play against the best for hours every day?  I’d say the evidence lies much more on the latter side.  This also helps explain Poongko’s success, given that he’s probably put more time into AE than anybody on the planet.

    Maybe not everyone can be the next Daigo or Justin, as they do possess some rare talents, but I would argue that just about anybody could become the next Tokido if they had his dedication + access to competition + complete lack of shame.

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