MvC3 – Return of the Guard Break?

by Keits on May 24th, 2011 at 11:08 am

Alioune discovered and documented an interesting glitch yesterday involving Dr. Doom’s beam assist and a throw. It leads to an inescapable situation, so the only thing left to do was to find a good setup. Today, he released an additional video showing how to set up a guard break after a snapback with Magneto using this glitch. Is this the return of the guard break, in a new form?

Athrex

The setup can be pushblocked it looks like from the first or second hit. You just have to pushblock it or eat the combo.
- ironboy89
  
  Assist has no effect by pushblock. So you just getting set up for the untechable throw.
  - Curakill
    
    i think he means the hits before the assist.
    - The Game mario316
      
      It’s the assist doing it either way so yeah. THe guard break situation probably can be avoided tho in the 2nd vid it looks like.
Sarangha

Sick find.
King D.

Amazin
Kniveszz

damn….just damn
MTSL_Mantra

Does that second video mean this is a free setup on the way in…? If so I absolutely see this being abused.
- clue2025
  
  Uh, guard break was an essential tool to being successful in MvC2. So yes, it will be abused, especially if there’s no fallback to going for it.
  - The Game mario316
    
    There was always a way around guard breaks in MvC2. If this can’t be avoided then it proves further why this game is hot ass.
    - 10 Stars
      
      uh, no there wasn’t moron. go ask strider and doom how they get out of guard breaks in 2 from magneto or iron man.
Pablo_the_Mex

Man this game is hot garbage, even the exploits are dumb as hell.
MAGUNITO

Has anyone tried this with an actual human opponent? sometimes the opitions for cpu dummo dont work as they should, random tech for example always techs backwards in some situations etc.
Inconnu_nom

How does push block play into this?
Cauldrath

While this is good, it’s not any more broken than a command grab. In fact, it pretty much just gives Magneto’s throw the same properties that a command grab has, but requires the assist to set up.
- Tulkan
  
  it’s not only magneto’s grab, and a command grab is something that very few character have and a very strong tool, besides because of the assist they can’t beat your “command grab” with normals,like all the others command grab’s
  - Cauldrath
    
    Right, like I said, it’s good because it basically gives a command grab to a character that doesn’t have one. It isn’t any better than one, though, because you could just call the assist at the same time as the command grab and get the same effect. Also, it appears to only work on the exact frame that the beam hits, so it is a lot more execution-intensive than a command throw.
    - The Game mario316
      
      Good? It’s broken and retarded. Command throws don’t lead into 100% combos….
      - Toodles
        
        Yes, they do. Easiest examples off of the top of my head for Marvel 3: X-23, Sentinel. Normal throws to 100% combos can work too. Ask Wesker and Storm.
        Check out Tragic’s DHC glitch video #3 for many MANY examples.
- DayUn
  
  Since when can you command grab someone in block stun?
  - XxJosxX
    
    Since never, I have no idea what this person is talking about.
    - The Game mario316
      
      Super characters that used a bar for the EX grabs.
      - Toodles
        
        Please stop posting incorrect information and trying to pass it off as fact.
        Capcom fighting games do not allow throwing someone in hitstun or blockstun. None of the Marvels, none of the Street Fighters, none of the Darkstalkers.
Tulkan

if this means phoenix is shit tier right now… then OMFG good find
Banzboy

So this is the secret trick Seth Killian was talking about in WNF? Nice.
- irondragon
  
  Considering that Clockwork was running Doom on point at the time, I doubt it.
Aquashark

Alioune technology is always cutting edge
classic

this is really helpful
iQuick

Two characters I already play. I’m lovin’ it.
abacus

Been using missiles but this is too good to ignore
clue2025

Guard break is cool and stuff but this is going to really narrow down a winning team. Not as much as MvC2 since multiple characters have the same tools (multi-hit beams/specials/assists) but there’s no burst mechanic, that wasn’t a true reset (because you rarely use them in this game), and that looked like basic magneto stuff you should know if you play him.
mIRC

Some say retarded.
Others say special.
More and more people are saying Marvel.
S.M.P

this isnt new.. Alioune is not the first to discover this… someone made a video about this using storm assist…
xS A M U R A Ix

Push block the shit out of that snap back setup lol.

This’ll probably get patched either way though.
Truegamer

This is a very nice find!!! But I do believe it will be patched…
SSF4 Unblockable Ultra was something similar…so yeah
Very nice find!!! Hoping that its stays though!!!
Jet Set Dizzy

Lol why can you grab during blockstun exactly?
Deps

You don’t need a beam assist to do this, and a lot of characters can combo off throws. This could potentially make Phoenix a lot weaker, which is good. Hopefully this doesn’t get patched
berserkotaku45

thats the glitch, you shouldnt be able to grab someone in block or hit stun. i dont know why that guy was claiming its just like a command throw. command throws cant grab someone in block or hit stun it so dude is talking out of his ass.
- Tulkan
  
  well he said that because you can’t tech command grabs, but yeah it’s kinda different.
J.D

Important question
does this work only for the first frames of the plasma beam, or any frme would do?
This alone could make the difference it is game breaking or not.
- Tulkan
  
  pretty sure is only the first frame, because the timing is a bit tricky.
Toodles

Tested in training mode. Mag+Doom+ whoever versus Mag+Doom+whoever. Recorded P2 for Mag to dash, call doom, wait, and throw, and dash again, so my char will be smooshed into P1 corner. Repeated until the throw showed 5 hits instead of 4 so I know the first hit of the plasma hit.

I can’t swear for certain if the throw is untechable; there were throw techs, but I have no way of knowing if I was techning his throw, or he was teching mine, if there is a difference. If there isn’t a difference, and throw techs only happen if the throws happen on the same frame, then it is techable.

If I crouch (d/b, d, or d/f), then I get thrown for four hits everytime since Mags ducks under the plasma.
If I hold back, I block the plasma and Mags does a s.H cape that is blocked.

Frankly, this looks like a training mode auto-tech bug when a hit and a throw happen on the same frame.
Cauldrath

If I had to hazard a guess as to why this works, it checks to see if the throw connects, then checks to see if the assist connects, then sets the flags for the throw beginning, then sets the flags for the assist hitting, which clears the flag that allows someone to tech the throw. Similar to why Sougenmu snap backs were breaking the game, Team Aerial Counters don’t work properly when they occur at the same time as another hit, and unblockables can sometimes be blocked when they hit at the same time as an assist. It makes me wonder it there are other bugs when two hits occur at the same time.
Toodles

Just in case I wasnt blunt enough, this does NOT appear to be anything that will affect games; not a game glitch, just a training mode glitch.
- clue2025
  
  Even though I don’t play this game, for the people that do I hope you’re right. Otherwise this could turn out to be worse than the MvC2 guardbreak.
Kream

Nice blazblue music in there woot
Karlito504

I play Doom and even I think these exploits are getting a bit out of hand….
Sol Badguy

Ridiculous, yet cool.
ploftkaploft

That was a 30 second combo. =)
jaytoo

This same concept was previously discovered by some X-23 players involving Tron assist + command throw OS. Just sayin’ =P.

Toodles may be right about it being a training mode glitch, but it’s definitely worth further experimentation.
Entourage

Interesting, gonna to have to go in the lab and mess around with this.
VernGusto

OMFG That is soooooo damn Cheap! WoW
InTheLightBlue

Whatever happened to using grabs to stop blocking and using counters to stop mashers?
Kazumaru

@Toodles
“Please stop posting incorrect information and trying to pass it off as fact.
Capcom fighting games do not allow throwing someone in hitstun or blockstun. None of the Marvels, none of the Street Fighters, none of the Darkstalkers.” my friends alex and akuma from 3s would like a word with u.
- Toodles
  
  ‘back turn’ is a special exception put in for exactly that purpose. back turn != hitstun or blockstun.
  - Spider-Dan
    
    Toodles, he also mentioned Akuma (e.g. s.HP->Raging Demon), which has nothing to do with back turn.
    
    Capcom games usually don’t allow you to grab out of hitstun or blockstun. [i]Usually.[/i] A3 VCs are yet another example. Comboing into airthrows in CPS2 Marvel games (which shows on the combometer) would be a third example.
    - Toodles
      
      I hope you mean s.HK -> RD, which is a back turn. Admittedly, I know little about 3S, but the guide says far HK is the only way to combo into RD.
      A3 VC throws require either a command grab when they’re OTG, or in the air. OTG and air reel aren’t hitstun or blockstun. (Funny, ditto for CvS2)
      
      I’m not saying you cant COMBO into a throw. Hell, you can do that in World Warrior, just knock ‘em dizzy. But Capcom’s systems, at least the popular games I’ve played, don’t allow being thrown in hitstun or blockstun.
      If you’re looking for an exception, I’m all ears. Marvel 3 almost counts with glitch, except the person is being thrown on the first frame of hitstop, but not hitstun or blockstun.
      - Spider-Dan
        
        It’s pretty convenient that A3 air reel simply “doesn’t count” as hitstun (because there are obviously thousands of examples of that). But fine, you want examples of throwing out of blockstun/hitstun?
        
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh-YGqd5JYM – 0:43
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eRIIVf9RGQ – 0:30
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRvkdQ8-o1o – 0:27, 2:17
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRvkdQ8-o1o – 0:04 (note: GROUND throw)
        
        As I said, you *usually* cannot throw out of blockstun/hitstun. It is not an ironclad rule.
      - Toodles
        
        For some reason Spider-Dan, it wont let me reply to you. Don’t know why.
        The very end of that first video definitely shows a green hand xx SPD comboing, so there’s definitely hitstun throwing there; I have no problem conceding that A3 VC’s break the rule. The XvsSF video only looks to show air throws though.
      - Spider-Dan
        
        Toodles, the last video I linked shows Cyclops doing a *ground throw* in the middle of a combo. That is not an airthrow.
        
        Furthermore, I do not understand your rationalization that airthrows simply don’t count. Isn’t your main point here that you (supposedly) cannot be thrown until you leave blockstun or hitstun? A comboed airthrow clearly violates that principle.
        
        But just to put this to bed once and for all (in a game without the free juggle system of A3 or Marvel, no less):
        
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuvLlm8VXg
        combo into ground throw at 0:10
        combo into airthrow at 0:21
      - Spider-Dan
        
        Sorry, my bad on the Cyclops ground throw combo link. Here it is:
        
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdYUdSc-vzg
        
        Combo into ground throw at 0:04.
- avatar_ignis
  
  For the love of god Kazumaru just stop
bUu_6

lol thnx for making viper with magz projectile assist really good now
SixMachine

I’m guessing a crossover counter could be tried to be put to use here. Crossovers seem to trade at the very least (from what I’ve seen using them in matches personally, except when done during a beam or something), so I guess we can go to training to see if at least avoids the throw. Though in the second vid, if you get hit by the snap, you have to pushblock because you’re assists are disabled for a bit. Though this is interesting, gonna have to play around in the danger room a bit.
MTSL_Mantra

So wait, has anyone confirmed if this is just a training mode bug? And if its not (well to be fair this can be found regardless) is it only doom’s beam or will this work for any assist/any beam assist?
Good Game Player

@Toodles

“Capcom fighting games do not allow throwing someone in hitstun or blockstun. None of the Marvels, none of the Street Fighters, none of the Darkstalkers.”

A3 VCs?
- Toodles
  
  A3 VC’s are thrown when the opponent is OTG or in the air. You can’t just do VC Zieg fierce xx SPD.
Huey Freeman

DOOM
Masamune_Shadow

I thought this was a “guard break” ala MvC2…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0CX76mWakw

I wouldn’t really call what Alioune posted so much a guard break so much as a glitch…as he called it in his video…
Eshmasesh

so is this possible in a real match or not? If it’s just a glitch on training mode dummies set to auto-tech then none of this actually matters.
TRiXWoN

I can never tell what the hell is going on in these videos… need to sell my copy of mvc3
evilweevle

(waits for inevitable comments of…) “its meant to be in the game! if capcom left it that must mean it was intentional, and makes doom/mags more viable as they sorely need it.”
liana-c

lol nice xD *runs off to try this out*
m216xlegendx

I have not tried on a human yet but this glitch works with any character that has a beam . The 1st person does not matter, you can grab with anyone. SO far i have tested shuma,criss,thor,magneto,iron man and modok. Not sure if aurther or task can do it yet.
m216xlegendx

Ok works with task and aurther too. SO it will work with any projectile call inn.Its just easiest with doom it seems cause he comes out behind you. thought it was really easy with shuma too.
thejohnsonrock

this was a day one bug i found, but maybe a different version of it. i noticed if you teched an airthrow and your opponent’s assist was out, ala sent drones/hagar/tron/whatever, you couldn’t block immediately until the tech animation was over. so a lot of times, i’d keep getting comboed/hit even if i escaped the throw. that’s one of the things i thought would be patched out eventually and it definitely made me think the programmers never played high level mvc2 if something like this was skipped over. maybe the tech animation and graphic isn’t coming out since the beam is technically hitting at the same time he’s teching.
thejohnsonrock

also, maybe v.joe can do this without an assist if he uses the bomb glitch
MarlinPie

this method was discovered a while ago by blackragna.
unfortunately his video didn’t get much attention but here’s his version that he created back in april. its in the air too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Sq55RQFg7M
Defilus

This apprently works with deadpool’s Quick Work assist as well. I tried it with a Doom/Deadpool/Shuma team with doom on point. The exact frame that deadpool’s assist hits, i could throw with shuma OR Doom. This may not just be a Doom-exclusive glitch.
Sephiiroth

I try it with other charec and yeah, it works !
HASJ

So far, worked with Mags’ Disruptor and Hyper-Grav assists for Wolverine and Wolverine’s Berserker Slash assist into Mags’s Throw.
Haviing a hard time making it work with Wesker’s Samurai Edge, maybe it doesn’t at all, at least with my chars. Wesker’s ground throw is pretty useless so didn’t try it.

Wolerine’s Berserker Slash is the easiest of the guard breaks for me, I’m doing it consistently and between resets and my skills are garbage.

Upcoming Tournaments

East Coast Throwdown V May 18-19, Morristown, NJ
UFGT 9 May 24-26, Chicago, IL
View all tournaments...

Follow @shoryukendotcom

Authors

Contact Shoryuken